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>>What if Contingency Meditation pulses a periodic check to roll you into hiding and a temporary invisibility in response to a pre-set condition (Stun, below 20% vitality, knocked prone). This would facilitate the "getting away" when injured much like the WM familiars - but different?
I for one like this idea.
Samsaren
ASHAMAN1
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/02/2013 10:57 PM CDT
I also dig it. I would also suggest, as an alternative to inviso, an AoE knockback, on your feet, and anti-stun.
One of my concerns of using inviso as an engagement escape, is that those who don't train stealth will find a handy core ability less effective or outright useless.
One of my concerns of using inviso as an engagement escape, is that those who don't train stealth will find a handy core ability less effective or outright useless.
CLERIXHAX
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/02/2013 11:28 PM CDT
>One of my concerns of using inviso as an engagement escape, is that those who don't train stealth will find a handy core ability less effective or outright useless.
That's why it's been suggested that it's placed high in the Predator path tree, for the people that would want to use it. They're making a conscious choice to go down that route, it's not for everyone.
That's why it's been suggested that it's placed high in the Predator path tree, for the people that would want to use it. They're making a conscious choice to go down that route, it's not for everyone.
DISCOTEQ21
JARAGONA
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/02/2013 11:54 PM CDT
>>I'd give up wolverine for invisibility.
^^ I want the real deal, not a 20% vitality option. Thanks for keeping the dialogue open, Kodius.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
^^ I want the real deal, not a 20% vitality option. Thanks for keeping the dialogue open, Kodius.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
GORTEOUS
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 05:39 AM CST
>> I'm not putting words in your mouth
Yes, you did. Denying it at this point is ridiculous.
>> seem to think that Predator path is about being hidden
It's a facet of it. Did you not get the ice cream reference? Do you know why it's on the Predator path, and not Horde/Flame? Would have any idea why Stealth is there to begin with?
>>Tev> Barbarians are not survival primary. There's nothing in the lore of the guild that implies that they are big on remaining hidden.
>>Gort> Predator path.
>>Me> Predator path is not solely about being stealthy, anymore than the water spellbook is because of rising mists.
Notice the bolded word? By adding that, you stopped arguing with me and started arguing against your own newly-created proposition. If you remove it, you're disagreeing with my argument. See how that works?
Your real argument here that you are not being direct about is that "A spellbook, specialization, or whatever - has to be SPECIFICALLY about Stealth for inviso to be viable there." True or false?
>> seeing how Expertise is laid out before saying it's going to heavily cut into our ability repertoire.
Point costs for Expertise are already laid out, and yes - they are breaking the bank. Gort is almost 185th(no points past 150) and I'm still missing quite a few of our abilities. Expertise is going to make this a lot worse. If you want to go through and tally up the point costs, be my guest.
>> I am just curious what form you believe is appropriate to barbarians when you say the weaker invisibility.
Polo-cloak style invisibility is the kind I'm talking about, with restraints on how often it can be used.
>> What would you give up to get invisibility? Turtle, Swan or Serenity? Wolverine (it will be better in 3.1)?, 2 Roars?
I would also give up Wolverine for inviso. Swan is the only way to effectively train Warding without tanking IF - if we had some other way of training it like that, sure. I don't think losing Serenity would be worth it, lots of low-mid level barbs depend on it. Turtle, no wai.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
Yes, you did. Denying it at this point is ridiculous.
>> seem to think that Predator path is about being hidden
It's a facet of it. Did you not get the ice cream reference? Do you know why it's on the Predator path, and not Horde/Flame? Would have any idea why Stealth is there to begin with?
>>Tev> Barbarians are not survival primary. There's nothing in the lore of the guild that implies that they are big on remaining hidden.
>>Gort> Predator path.
>>Me> Predator path is not solely about being stealthy, anymore than the water spellbook is because of rising mists.
Notice the bolded word? By adding that, you stopped arguing with me and started arguing against your own newly-created proposition. If you remove it, you're disagreeing with my argument. See how that works?
Your real argument here that you are not being direct about is that "A spellbook, specialization, or whatever - has to be SPECIFICALLY about Stealth for inviso to be viable there." True or false?
>> seeing how Expertise is laid out before saying it's going to heavily cut into our ability repertoire.
Point costs for Expertise are already laid out, and yes - they are breaking the bank. Gort is almost 185th(no points past 150) and I'm still missing quite a few of our abilities. Expertise is going to make this a lot worse. If you want to go through and tally up the point costs, be my guest.
>> I am just curious what form you believe is appropriate to barbarians when you say the weaker invisibility.
Polo-cloak style invisibility is the kind I'm talking about, with restraints on how often it can be used.
>> What would you give up to get invisibility? Turtle, Swan or Serenity? Wolverine (it will be better in 3.1)?, 2 Roars?
I would also give up Wolverine for inviso. Swan is the only way to effectively train Warding without tanking IF - if we had some other way of training it like that, sure. I don't think losing Serenity would be worth it, lots of low-mid level barbs depend on it. Turtle, no wai.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 08:41 AM CST
>That's why it's been suggested that it's placed high in the Predator path tree, for the people that would want to use it. They're making a conscious choice to go down that route, it's not for everyone.
Prediction is presently a 5th tier ability. You can pick it up by investing 9 training sessions into the Predator path. You can max out the Predator path with 4 more training sessions. That means at 25th circle you can pick up the ability.
Prediction is something that I'll use when I overhunt. Training stealth isn't. My argument was to the universal utility of the ability, not to making it a conscious choice to go for it. My point is that inviso shouldn't be or doesn't have to be the paths capstone ability. Take a look at the other capstone abilities: Flame has Turtle and Death's Shriek, Horde has Badger and Wail of Torment. None of those require a non-IF related skill for their use. This would be akin to putting Focus at the top of a tree.
>I'd give up wolverine for invisibility.
If it's being used as a disengager, what about making it akin to Serenity, and block other abilities from being used? Or when it triggers, it also clears other forms and meditations?
Prediction is presently a 5th tier ability. You can pick it up by investing 9 training sessions into the Predator path. You can max out the Predator path with 4 more training sessions. That means at 25th circle you can pick up the ability.
Prediction is something that I'll use when I overhunt. Training stealth isn't. My argument was to the universal utility of the ability, not to making it a conscious choice to go for it. My point is that inviso shouldn't be or doesn't have to be the paths capstone ability. Take a look at the other capstone abilities: Flame has Turtle and Death's Shriek, Horde has Badger and Wail of Torment. None of those require a non-IF related skill for their use. This would be akin to putting Focus at the top of a tree.
>I'd give up wolverine for invisibility.
If it's being used as a disengager, what about making it akin to Serenity, and block other abilities from being used? Or when it triggers, it also clears other forms and meditations?
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 08:42 AM CST
And to be clear, by 'max out', I actually mean 'reach train the 7th tier ability', not 'have all abilities in the path'.
COVERG
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 11:55 AM CST
I would like ranged weapons to be able to PARRY ranged weapons at missile range. Kind of like anti missile-missile! Parry + HT/bow/crossbow/thrown vs OF skill of opponent. Must have say eagle up??
Thoughts?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
Thoughts?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
HAMBARD
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 12:02 PM CST
Do you have to be invisible when using Patriot anti-ranged counter missiles?
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
COVERG
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 12:52 PM CST
No, visible is good.. Invisible... how would they target you so that you would require a parry?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
OLSONM6
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 06:23 PM CST
>No, visible is good.. Invisible... how would they target you so that you would require a parry?
I think someone missed the <sarcasm> tag.
I think someone missed the <sarcasm> tag.
GORTEOUS
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/03/2013 06:28 PM CST
>> If it's being used as a disengager, what about making it akin to Serenity, and block other abilities from being used?
This seems kind of silly. We already can't roar in inviso, and attacking breaks inviso anyways. To clarify, Serenity blocks roaring(and was subject to change) and nothing else.
>> Or when it triggers, it also clears other forms and meditations?
We would be trading a lot, much more than the value of the ability. It takes 3 seconds to search and point someone out. Unless you're advocating a barb version of Vanish that immediately sends us to missile in inviso, I don't think this is viable in terms of how powerful it would be, or useful in terms of real world application.
>> I would like ranged weapons to be able to PARRY ranged weapons at missile range. Kind of like anti missile-missile! Parry + HT/bow/crossbow/thrown vs OF skill of opponent. Must have say eagle up??
They should probably fix melee parrying of ranged weapons first - as funny as it is to watch people with under 1200 ranged never get a shot off on Gort because I keep slapping their weapon away (LITERALLY 3 screens of them spamming fire), it's not cool in terms of balance. I think it should be either a fixed percentage w/ a weapon in your hand, or be based off of points put into your Parry stance.
And yea, the whole idea of being able to parry ranged weapons is cool. Implementation is another story though.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
This seems kind of silly. We already can't roar in inviso, and attacking breaks inviso anyways. To clarify, Serenity blocks roaring(and was subject to change) and nothing else.
>> Or when it triggers, it also clears other forms and meditations?
We would be trading a lot, much more than the value of the ability. It takes 3 seconds to search and point someone out. Unless you're advocating a barb version of Vanish that immediately sends us to missile in inviso, I don't think this is viable in terms of how powerful it would be, or useful in terms of real world application.
>> I would like ranged weapons to be able to PARRY ranged weapons at missile range. Kind of like anti missile-missile! Parry + HT/bow/crossbow/thrown vs OF skill of opponent. Must have say eagle up??
They should probably fix melee parrying of ranged weapons first - as funny as it is to watch people with under 1200 ranged never get a shot off on Gort because I keep slapping their weapon away (LITERALLY 3 screens of them spamming fire), it's not cool in terms of balance. I think it should be either a fixed percentage w/ a weapon in your hand, or be based off of points put into your Parry stance.
And yea, the whole idea of being able to parry ranged weapons is cool. Implementation is another story though.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/04/2013 12:59 AM CST
I'll take a look at parrying ranged shots at melee here soon. Been fixing a ton of bugs that came along with 3.0 and other peoples' code I really wish I didn't have to try and figure out :(
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
PEZZZ
Re: Panther or Whatever
11/05/2013 09:44 AM CST
Parrying an arrow from ranged with enough ranks would be cool, it can be done... Memnon style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNPcxSp5a2o
