Previous
How much of a bonus is Eagle Dance to Heavy Thrown weapons?
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
BROOKIE
JARAGONA
Re: Eagle and HT
09/10/2011 06:31 PM CDT
>>How much of a bonus is Eagle Dance to Heavy Thrown weapons?
I don't notice much of a difference. But I do notice a nice improvement with dragon up.
I don't notice much of a difference. But I do notice a nice improvement with dragon up.
BROOKIE
Re: Eagle and HT
09/10/2011 08:11 PM CDT
To accuracy, damage, or both?
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/10/2011 08:29 PM CDT
HT primary and I don't notice much of a difference either. Eagle's supposed to be the dance that boosts HT though.
*******
Malkien
*******
Malkien
BROOKIE
Re: Eagle and HT
09/10/2011 08:44 PM CDT
I got about 475 HT and was going up against a guy with equal shield and 550 evasion. Dancing eagle I just couldn't even get past him (using 9 balanced spears). I heard Eagle was supposed to be an incredible boost to HT accuracy but was wondering how others felt.
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/10/2011 09:37 PM CDT
>>I got about 475 HT and was going up against a guy with equal shield and 550 evasion. Dancing eagle I just couldn't even get past him (using 9 balanced spears). I heard Eagle was supposed to be an incredible boost to HT accuracy but was wondering how others felt.
300+ HT, literally notice no difference. I notice more of a difference with stat-boosting stuff like Blood Berserk or Bear Dance.
*******
Malkien
300+ HT, literally notice no difference. I notice more of a difference with stat-boosting stuff like Blood Berserk or Bear Dance.
*******
Malkien
JARAGONA
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Eagle and HT
09/11/2011 09:12 PM CDT
I definately notice a difference with LT.
not dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike to the goblin's left arm.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a solid hit that barely pierces the skin to nick the chest.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike that barely breaks the skin of the goblin's right leg.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike that etches a light cut into the right side of the chest.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a solid hit that painfully mashes several toes of the left foot.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a heavy strike that bites deeply into the side of the neck, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a strong hit that cuts a ragged line across the back.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin attempts to dodge. The blade lands a heavy strike that cuts deeply into muscle on the right thigh.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a heavy strike that slices through the neck and sends the goblin's head flying through the air, knocking it completely senseless.
The polished blade lodges itself savagely into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin attempts to evade. The blade lands a very heavy hit that wounds it deeply across the upper left arm.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
A black goblin scowls at you hatefully before closing its eyes forever.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
this was first throw on 2 different gobs, 1 data point but you can just try it for yourself, there is a definate difference. If you're landing an apoc every hit, in the top end of the game where damage is out of control, or sufficiently underhunting\milking your critter then of course you're not going to notice a difference. :/
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
not dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike to the goblin's left arm.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a solid hit that barely pierces the skin to nick the chest.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike that barely breaks the skin of the goblin's right leg.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike that etches a light cut into the right side of the chest.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a solid hit that painfully mashes several toes of the left foot.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a heavy strike that bites deeply into the side of the neck, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a strong hit that cuts a ragged line across the back.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin attempts to dodge. The blade lands a heavy strike that cuts deeply into muscle on the right thigh.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin fails to evade. The blade lands a heavy strike that slices through the neck and sends the goblin's head flying through the air, knocking it completely senseless.
The polished blade lodges itself savagely into the black goblin!
[You're nimbly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin attempts to evade. The blade lands a very heavy hit that wounds it deeply across the upper left arm.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
A black goblin scowls at you hatefully before closing its eyes forever.
[You're nimbly balanced]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
this was first throw on 2 different gobs, 1 data point but you can just try it for yourself, there is a definate difference. If you're landing an apoc every hit, in the top end of the game where damage is out of control, or sufficiently underhunting\milking your critter then of course you're not going to notice a difference. :/
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Eagle and HT
09/11/2011 09:27 PM CDT
Is that the result of a skill bonus or the result of being nimbly balanced vs solidly balanced?
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Eagle and HT
09/11/2011 09:31 PM CDT
>>Is that the result of a skill bonus or the result of being nimbly balanced vs solidly balanced?
same thing
dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a heavy strike that slides the polished blade deeply into the stomach, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a strong hit that lightly cuts the goblin's forearm.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands an extremely heavy hit that cuts deeply into the fleshy part of the left palm, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a very heavy hit that cuts deeply into muscle on the right thigh.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a massive strike that amputates the left arm and a good deal of the shoulder in a crippling blow.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The polished blade falls to the ground!
A black goblin scowls at you hatefully before closing its eyes forever.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
not dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia.
The polished blade lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a harmless blow to the goblin's right arm.
The polished blade falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike to the goblin's abdomen.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a light hit to the goblin's right leg.
The polished blade falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia.
The polished blade lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
same thing
dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a heavy strike that slides the polished blade deeply into the stomach, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a strong hit that lightly cuts the goblin's forearm.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands an extremely heavy hit that cuts deeply into the fleshy part of the left palm, lightly stunning it.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin barely blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a very heavy hit that cuts deeply into muscle on the right thigh.
The polished blade lodges itself firmly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a massive strike that amputates the left arm and a good deal of the shoulder in a crippling blow.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The polished blade falls to the ground!
A black goblin scowls at you hatefully before closing its eyes forever.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
not dancing
>throw
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia.
The polished blade lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a harmless blow to the goblin's right arm.
The polished blade falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a good strike to the goblin's abdomen.
The polished blade lodges itself shallowly into the black goblin!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin partially blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia. The blade lands a light hit to the goblin's right leg.
The polished blade falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
< You throw a polished blade at a black goblin. A black goblin blocks with a battered wooden shield sloppily painted with faded insignia.
The polished blade lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 5 sec.]
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Eagle and HT
09/11/2011 09:34 PM CDT
also, wanted to say I didn't rig anything or pick any particular throws out, I was dancing, gob came in throw. kill, stop dancing, new gob throw. It's easy & consistent for me to see eagles boost.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
JARAGONA
VEE-REX
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 07:19 AM CDT
Eagle boosts HT by a nice amount.
HT functions the same way as LT. Also, I've known some HT Barbarians that praised Eagle for its boosts.
To add to this: The stats of a Barb play a pretty large role in determining which dances seem to boost which weapons the best. HT weapons are generally well suited for strength, so higher strength Barbarians adding on Dragon may see better damage with it than when Eagle is up.
The boost from Eagle is more easily seen with LT. I'd say Eagle's boost and Dragon's boost are almost equal with Eagle sometimes seeming a tiny bit better sometimes(this is at higher levels where both dances are more developed).
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
HT functions the same way as LT. Also, I've known some HT Barbarians that praised Eagle for its boosts.
To add to this: The stats of a Barb play a pretty large role in determining which dances seem to boost which weapons the best. HT weapons are generally well suited for strength, so higher strength Barbarians adding on Dragon may see better damage with it than when Eagle is up.
The boost from Eagle is more easily seen with LT. I'd say Eagle's boost and Dragon's boost are almost equal with Eagle sometimes seeming a tiny bit better sometimes(this is at higher levels where both dances are more developed).
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
BROOKIE
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 08:14 AM CDT
My main concern (as per first post) was leaning more towards the accuracy boost the dances give. I can't find a whole lot of specifics on what Eagle does other than "ranged and perception boost" where I know that Dragon does "agility boost and ranged weapon boost" plus alot of others.
I'm talking mainly from a pvp scenerio and looking at ways to optimize my ability to get my HT past shields and evasion. So I guess the basic question is...why one would enable me to better accuracy?
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
I'm talking mainly from a pvp scenerio and looking at ways to optimize my ability to get my HT past shields and evasion. So I guess the basic question is...why one would enable me to better accuracy?
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 08:21 AM CDT
>>I'm talking mainly from a pvp scenerio and looking at ways to optimize my ability to get my HT past shields and evasion. So I guess the basic question is...why one would enable me to better accuracy?
As currently stands, accuracy and damage are by and large the same thing, if that answers your question.
The best way to maximize your "accuracy" with an HT weapon would be to use the ability that boosts your damage most.
*******
Malkien
As currently stands, accuracy and damage are by and large the same thing, if that answers your question.
The best way to maximize your "accuracy" with an HT weapon would be to use the ability that boosts your damage most.
*******
Malkien
LEEJ82
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 08:31 AM CDT
<<I'm talking mainly from a pvp scenerio and looking at ways to optimize my ability to get my HT past shields and evasion. So I guess the basic question is...why one would enable me to better accuracy?
Theoretically Eagle would since it's a flat boost around 30% to your HT ranks. Also, Eagle provides a bonus to Perception as well, so...
However, you're probably going to get frustrated with how hard it is to PvP with thrown weapons in general. Their mediocrity in PvP is a trade-off for their ease to train. Crossbows and stickbows are painful to train but extremely useful in PvP.
LT is better than HT because of throwing blades.
Theoretically Eagle would since it's a flat boost around 30% to your HT ranks. Also, Eagle provides a bonus to Perception as well, so...
However, you're probably going to get frustrated with how hard it is to PvP with thrown weapons in general. Their mediocrity in PvP is a trade-off for their ease to train. Crossbows and stickbows are painful to train but extremely useful in PvP.
LT is better than HT because of throwing blades.
VEE-REX
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 09:53 AM CDT
>>As currently stands, accuracy and damage are by and large the same thing, if that answers your question.
Only in regards to damage being boosted with more accuracy.
I see this phrase thrown around a lot and it could easily be misunderstood. Increasing damage will NOT increase your accuracy. Adding more Strength will not increase to-hit. However, agility will increase to-hit and the higher the overall skill is in contrast to the target's defenses, the more damage will be done. So in effect, agility increases both accuracy and damage.
Hope that makes sense.
>>LT is better than HT because of throwing blades.
When it comes to PvP, I disagree. HT is better IMO.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Only in regards to damage being boosted with more accuracy.
I see this phrase thrown around a lot and it could easily be misunderstood. Increasing damage will NOT increase your accuracy. Adding more Strength will not increase to-hit. However, agility will increase to-hit and the higher the overall skill is in contrast to the target's defenses, the more damage will be done. So in effect, agility increases both accuracy and damage.
Hope that makes sense.
>>LT is better than HT because of throwing blades.
When it comes to PvP, I disagree. HT is better IMO.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
CIRCUITAL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 04:49 PM CDT
<<LT is better than HT because of throwing blades.>>
better is too general. HT is better in PVP I think. I find I can train LT a little faster, but its nominal.
JARAGONA
Re: Eagle and HT
09/12/2011 05:34 PM CDT
For PvP purposes, my suggestion is using dragon dance over eagle dance (for most situations). Dragon dance pretty much boosts all things vital for PvP. Obviously it doesn't boost perception like eagle, but I'd rather have boosted strength, agility, reflex, stamina, vitality, melee, ranged, defense, improved balance and magic resistance any day. For sure, dragon dance gets better as you grow. I honestly cannot see a difference in how hard I throw when comparing dragon and eagle when it comes to LT.
NJP
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 06:01 AM CDT
>>When it comes to PvP, I disagree. HT is better IMO.
I agree with Vinjince. The only time I use LT over HT (they're 2 ranks apart) is when I'm having trouble hitting even after pulling out all the stops I can in a given situation. So basically only when I want to get the highest possible accuracy out of my weapon.
>>For PvP purposes, my suggestion is using dragon dance over eagle dance (for most situations). Dragon dance pretty much boosts all things vital for PvP. Obviously it doesn't boost perception like eagle, but I'd rather have boosted strength, agility, reflex, stamina, vitality, melee, ranged, defense, improved balance and magic resistance any day. For sure, dragon dance gets better as you grow. I honestly cannot see a difference in how hard I throw when comparing dragon and eagle when it comes to LT.
I agree with all of that. If I can't spot someone without eagle, by in large, I'm not likely to be able to spot them with it. The myriad buffs from dragon are always worthwhile.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
I agree with Vinjince. The only time I use LT over HT (they're 2 ranks apart) is when I'm having trouble hitting even after pulling out all the stops I can in a given situation. So basically only when I want to get the highest possible accuracy out of my weapon.
>>For PvP purposes, my suggestion is using dragon dance over eagle dance (for most situations). Dragon dance pretty much boosts all things vital for PvP. Obviously it doesn't boost perception like eagle, but I'd rather have boosted strength, agility, reflex, stamina, vitality, melee, ranged, defense, improved balance and magic resistance any day. For sure, dragon dance gets better as you grow. I honestly cannot see a difference in how hard I throw when comparing dragon and eagle when it comes to LT.
I agree with all of that. If I can't spot someone without eagle, by in large, I'm not likely to be able to spot them with it. The myriad buffs from dragon are always worthwhile.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
VEE-REX
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 06:23 AM CDT
I suggest testing Eagle with and w/o Watch. I'm pretty sure Watch is a % bonus, so boosting Eagle right before using Watch gives a pretty impressive boost to perception.
In the end though you really can't go wrong with Dragon. It's by far our best dance.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
In the end though you really can't go wrong with Dragon. It's by far our best dance.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 07:29 AM CDT
>>How much of a bonus is Eagle Dance to Heavy Thrown weapons?
So to the OP, it's the biggest bonus to ranks we have for ranged. So if you just want to max out your HT and aren't worried about a defensive boost (or anything else really), use Eagle.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
So to the OP, it's the biggest bonus to ranks we have for ranged. So if you just want to max out your HT and aren't worried about a defensive boost (or anything else really), use Eagle.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
NEELD
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 10:52 AM CDT
<<When it comes to PvP, I disagree. HT is better IMO.
V - Mind giving some more detail on this statement? From my perspective (paladin with decent shield ranks), I have more trouble with throwing blades than anything.
On a side note, my best ranged is HT and I find a throwing hammer kinda blows. I am in the process of converting to a crap-load of spears for PvP vs. the throwing hammer.
Madigan
V - Mind giving some more detail on this statement? From my perspective (paladin with decent shield ranks), I have more trouble with throwing blades than anything.
On a side note, my best ranged is HT and I find a throwing hammer kinda blows. I am in the process of converting to a crap-load of spears for PvP vs. the throwing hammer.
Madigan
PENDUS
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 01:50 PM CDT
My guess would be the spears have better balance so are easier to hit with. Just like throwing blades, which are soundly balanced vs throwing hammers which have poor balance unless lightened. It's a pretty big difference. I think the spears were reasonable balance, so one under throwing blades and I think 4 over hammers.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 01:53 PM CDT
PvP is currently about making the first hit count. To that end, a throwing hammer with very severe impact is going to work better than even five throwing blades.
*******
Malkien
*******
Malkien
PENDUS
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 01:59 PM CDT
Not really. If you can't hit with the HT, the impact won't matter.
VEE-REX
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 01:59 PM CDT
HT does way more damage.
Generally, if someone is just on the edge of my skill where I have to use a very balanced LT to try to hit them, if they're wearing any decent armor I'll only land grazing hits anyway. IMO, the advantage of doing much greater damage is greater than the advantage of trying to have a little more accuracy (barely overcoming skill with LT ends with non-impressive hits).
The throwing blades appraise terribly. Really bad. They're actually not the best weapons to use in every PvP situation. They are however much much more fancy than HT. I think this sort of distorts perception of the skill level. When someone sees 5 devastating hits, they're like WOW the throwing blades were amazing, without knowing that the thrower had 600 more ranks in LT than the target's defenses, and the fact that the thrower could have just one hit them with a club or something instead.
If you or anyone else get nailed by LT, then that only means you were outclassed or disabled out of your mind. Paladins especially, heavy armor destroys the throwing blade damage.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Generally, if someone is just on the edge of my skill where I have to use a very balanced LT to try to hit them, if they're wearing any decent armor I'll only land grazing hits anyway. IMO, the advantage of doing much greater damage is greater than the advantage of trying to have a little more accuracy (barely overcoming skill with LT ends with non-impressive hits).
The throwing blades appraise terribly. Really bad. They're actually not the best weapons to use in every PvP situation. They are however much much more fancy than HT. I think this sort of distorts perception of the skill level. When someone sees 5 devastating hits, they're like WOW the throwing blades were amazing, without knowing that the thrower had 600 more ranks in LT than the target's defenses, and the fact that the thrower could have just one hit them with a club or something instead.
If you or anyone else get nailed by LT, then that only means you were outclassed or disabled out of your mind. Paladins especially, heavy armor destroys the throwing blade damage.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 02:06 PM CDT
To add to that, I've had shootouts with someone who used HT. Me and Gronten used to have the same amount of ranks in Thrown, while his defenses were terrible. He still used to blast me away with HT before my LT could beat him. Mainly because his strength was so high and the damage was so much greater.
I do know in my fights with Pendus I'm better off using a throwing club. The blades don't do as much damage and gives a 5 sec RT that could be fatal.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I do know in my fights with Pendus I'm better off using a throwing club. The blades don't do as much damage and gives a 5 sec RT that could be fatal.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 02:16 PM CDT
>>Not really. If you can't hit with the HT, the impact won't matter.
See: Vinjince's reply.
If you can't hit them with the throwing hammer, you're not going to be able to hit them with the throwing daggers, either. One or two levels of balance on a weapon is a rather negligible difference in a combat engine so front-loaded with damage.
*******
Malkien
See: Vinjince's reply.
If you can't hit them with the throwing hammer, you're not going to be able to hit them with the throwing daggers, either. One or two levels of balance on a weapon is a rather negligible difference in a combat engine so front-loaded with damage.
*******
Malkien
NEELD
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 02:17 PM CDT
Thanks. I must just be remembering our fights differently.
Madigan
Madigan
NEELD
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 02:18 PM CDT
<<My guess would be the spears have better balance so are easier to hit with. Just like throwing blades, which are soundly balanced vs throwing hammers which have poor balance unless lightened. It's a pretty big difference. I think the spears were reasonable balance, so one under throwing blades and I think 4 over hammers.
I think you are hitting the nail on the head Pendus. I am starting to play around with them, so hopefully can PvP with them fairly soon.
Madigan
I think you are hitting the nail on the head Pendus. I am starting to play around with them, so hopefully can PvP with them fairly soon.
Madigan
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 02:41 PM CDT
Madigan, here are some examples of balance and damage differences between hammers & spears:
(duraka skefne, military fork & spear are all the same)
36 stone throwing hammer - no/dismal/great decently/fairly (best balance for throwing hammer with non-rare metals)
36 stone military fork - very heavy/fair/low well/inadequately (best balance for the forks)
63 stone military fork - severe/fair/fair reasonably/decently (best damage + still better balanced than the hammer)
63 stone throwing hammer - no/low/very severe poorly/well
It's a net win for the spears for both damage and accuracy, even in the ligher versions.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
(duraka skefne, military fork & spear are all the same)
36 stone throwing hammer - no/dismal/great decently/fairly (best balance for throwing hammer with non-rare metals)
36 stone military fork - very heavy/fair/low well/inadequately (best balance for the forks)
63 stone military fork - severe/fair/fair reasonably/decently (best damage + still better balanced than the hammer)
63 stone throwing hammer - no/low/very severe poorly/well
It's a net win for the spears for both damage and accuracy, even in the ligher versions.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
NEELD
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 03:02 PM CDT
Thanks Codiax. Pretty much what I was seeing as well. The challenge is how to effectively use them in PvP, which takes a bit of practice. And, is it worth lugging them around?
Madigan
Madigan
NJP
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 03:23 PM CDT
>>The challenge is how to effectively use them in PvP, which takes a bit of practice. And, is it worth lugging them around?
I wouldn't trade my bonded HT/Pike weapons for anything. Best plats/LTB points I've ever spent. Being a paladin, I don't think you even need to use the LTB points or spend the plats to get the bonding effect, so I would consider it absolutely worth carrying one around for PvP. The higher balance and generally superior overall damage stats are great.
Even if I weren't going to bond the weapon, I would still carry at least one spear/pitchfork/military fork/whatever, just for getting the best chance at a HT first strike (ie. likely 1-shot).
The real key to thrown PvP is debuffing the defenses and tanking the balance of your opponent as much as possible before you start throwing. Improving your own balance somehow (along with whatever ranged buffs you can muster), is icing on the cake.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
I wouldn't trade my bonded HT/Pike weapons for anything. Best plats/LTB points I've ever spent. Being a paladin, I don't think you even need to use the LTB points or spend the plats to get the bonding effect, so I would consider it absolutely worth carrying one around for PvP. The higher balance and generally superior overall damage stats are great.
Even if I weren't going to bond the weapon, I would still carry at least one spear/pitchfork/military fork/whatever, just for getting the best chance at a HT first strike (ie. likely 1-shot).
The real key to thrown PvP is debuffing the defenses and tanking the balance of your opponent as much as possible before you start throwing. Improving your own balance somehow (along with whatever ranged buffs you can muster), is icing on the cake.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
SHEATH
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 03:30 PM CDT
Just as a point, I also tested light thrown dancing eagle a while back when I was hunting thicket vipers. I had read somewhere that eagle did not benefit thrown and so I wanted to test it. I got the same results as Codiax... that I would consistantly land grazing/harmless blows without eagle, and light/good blows with eagle.
Have never tried it with HT, but I'm assuming if you tested it out that way (throwing at something you can't hit harder than grazing), you'll notice a big increase in your ability to hit with it.
Have never tried it with HT, but I'm assuming if you tested it out that way (throwing at something you can't hit harder than grazing), you'll notice a big increase in your ability to hit with it.
NEELD
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 04:33 PM CDT
<<The real key to thrown PvP is debuffing the defenses and tanking the balance of your opponent as much as possible before you start throwing. Improving your own balance somehow (along with whatever ranged buffs you can muster), is icing on the cake.
Glad you jumped in Ogdaro, I was actually going to send you an email to talk some tactics as I know you are pretty beastly with your HT PvP.
Madigan
Glad you jumped in Ogdaro, I was actually going to send you an email to talk some tactics as I know you are pretty beastly with your HT PvP.
Madigan
NJP
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 05:00 PM CDT
Feel free any time. Also feel free to IM me at zzNJPzz if you prefer. I love to talk shop about PvP in general and throwns in particular. Still have a lot to learn, myself.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
HEITAK
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 06:58 PM CDT
I use LX/Offhand/LT I like the tactic of setting up the offhand throw with shots from the crossbow but really I have always hoped that LT would become a utility weapon with working bolas that somehow entangle. But I gotta say the tactic of fire/poach throw left work amazing with throwing blades ( especially when you stun with the crossbow shot ).
Heitak
PENDUS
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 07:34 PM CDT
It's not one or two levels, Malkien. It's poor balance to reasonably/soundly. It's 4-5 levels on what we can see. It could be low end poor to medium-high reasonable. It's a significant difference in the ability to hit. That's why spears>>>hammers in PvP.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eagle and HT
09/13/2011 07:38 PM CDT
>>It's not one or two levels, Malkien. It's poor balance to reasonably/soundly. It's 4-5 levels on what we can see. It could be low end poor to medium-high reasonable. It's a significant difference in the ability to hit. That's why spears>>>hammers in PvP.
I'm not talking about spears vs. hammers, I was rebutting someone who was leery that - generally speaking - HT outperforms LT in PvP, and used a hammer as an example. Yes, "hammer" should be changed to "spear" for purposes of discussing weapon balance, you're right.
*******
Malkien
I'm not talking about spears vs. hammers, I was rebutting someone who was leery that - generally speaking - HT outperforms LT in PvP, and used a hammer as an example. Yes, "hammer" should be changed to "spear" for purposes of discussing weapon balance, you're right.
*******
Malkien
