Previous
>>well it will help with MU's that are friendly...but it'll be missed when some invisble mage casts at you and there's no way to put up your MR....if you do zero PvP it likely won't be missed, but if you do....one fried barb
The biggest BMR "offender" is Dragon Dance, which is an active ability anyways. In order to pump up your BMR to nigh-immunity using Dragon Dance, you have to put up the abilit before-hand, which requires anticipation of the mage's attack. In other words, in this case it won't be any different from the rewrite, where all abilities will need to be activated.
The other instance of nasty BMR is either A) passive resistance so high it's almost immunity or B) being able to Dragon Dance infinitely. Both of these pretty much require max level, or something very close. Frankly, both of these are overpowered anyways and expecting to keep them at their current level of effectiveness is in no way realistic.
Basically, our high-end BMR's getting nerfed whether we like it or not for game balance, so we may as well enjoy a system with more versatility and friendliness towards stuff like hunting with Bards.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
DIMINISHEDANGEL
JMF90
Re: Passive MR Going Away
04/21/2010 05:21 PM CDT
>Player of Meantermel.
I always assumed this was a joke character.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
I always assumed this was a joke character.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
SHADOW-X
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 10:19 AM CST
I don't see an issue with losing passive BMR at insane levels, though I'd personally like to see it weakened as opposed to ditched altogether.
In it's place I would suggest not only methods for increasing innate BMR through dances and the like but active knowledge that allows a barbarian to remove someone's ability to actually cast magic altogether.
Yes, this works to some extent now but I was speaking of something more along the lines of pressure point strikes and similar knowledge that only someone who avoids all magic and focuses solely on their own self-mastery would know (maybe empaths might know it to some extent too but they focus on magic instead of the physical aspects.)
Since I don't see the warrior monk style guild in existence that I always wanted I suppose i'll explain a few of the ideas I had for that concept as barbarian ideas since I derived the warrior monk guild from barbs anyway in my mind.
Barbarians will have their BMR reduced greatly overall in the future or removed altogether depending on the needs of game balance. To remedy this terrible loss (and it is terrible since this should NOT happen. It's actually a good thing IMHO for a character class to have total immunity to magic and be hard to hit or hurt because they constantly fight and train.
Taking BMR from barbs is like someone saying "Hi guys! We feel sorry for the terrorists and insurgents that constantly make improvised explosive devices. Their devices only occasionally work on our armored vehicles though they are devestating when they do.
In the interest of fair play there will be no more armored vehicles for your use and everyone must run and hide inside a fortified bunker when available.
We have to be fair to the terrorists after all. They can attack us whenever they like and in strange or unusual ways to us. We have to take it, run, or hide when they attack us outside our excellent defenses you know.
However, it makes them mad when they can't hurt us because of our excellent training and high-end and highly specified skillsets. Therefore we are removing your tanks and armored personnel carriers. I hope these changes make it a more exciting and enjoyable police action for everyone involved.
Thank you and have a great day!
~ Congress
Please forgive any lack of current knowledge in this post as I haven't played a barbarian in several years and only recently returned.
Anyway... that silliness aside I would see pressure point attacks that cripple an opponent by paralyzing limbs or their magic ability. A high-end barbarian might be a master of this knowledge but perhaps they have to have both brawling experience and first aid (I'd prefer an actual anatomy skill and animal lore for this. I've never played an empath so I can't recall if there IS an anatomy lore skill.)
These types of items might even replace the 'magic' of other guilds for a barbarian allowing them to use their inner fire in ways that are new and exciting similar to advanced fictitious martial artists.
Attacks and abilities that a barbarian might learn instead of spells.
* Intimidating glare - an intimidation ability that completely stuns an opponent, induces a fear effect, or makes them fall down and beg for forgiveness.
* Steel Resolve - An ability that allows a barbarian to shrug off normal mundane attacks at a specified skill level. A low end barbarian could use this ability and gain an aura effect from their inner fire that grants them protection similar to cloth. High-end Barbarians could walk naked into battle but their inner fire would give them high-end heavy plate level damage absorption.
* Rain of death - the ability to enter a long period of RT but fire off a series of extremely fast but accurate shots with a bow. Requires dual loading ability before this ability can be learned.
* Resilient Heart - So long as your inner fire burns bright you will be able to reduce the potency to all magical attacks and effects directed against you instead of simply resisting the effect (Drains every time hit with magic while active and the higher the mentals and circle of the barb the less damage or effectiveness leaks through.)
* Rage of the Thunderstorm - A series of unarmed or blunt weapon attacks that occur in quick succession that sound like a meaty thundering.
* Similar attacks for all types of weapons since barbarians are supposed to master them. This should mean that they get special abilities based on a given weapon. IMHO.
In short.. give the barbarians attack abilities that can compensate for lack or defense. I'd even like to see the concept of 'chi' expanded into quests to find elder barbarian grand masters who know more esoteric forms of using their inner fire to actually effect critters at a distance. Chi projection abilities to do damage would draw on inner fire greatly but the ability to thrust their open palms toward a musk hog or whatever and see it get bowled over utilizing only the indomitable power of their inner fire and soul sounds like a good deal to me. Plus they can then trot over and kill said musk hog and get some of their fire back.
Give them things like this and people will be like.. BMR.. pfft. I've got a raging spirit blast wave (kamehameha) and a hiryushoten HA (probably misspelled chi tornado ala ranma 1/2, screw you and your wussy magic buddy. The last one could even be a nicely upgraded whirlwind learned from one of the grandmasters... "you know how to spin like the whirlingwind.. now master how to make it spin for you".
This way MR isn't the only defining ability of the guild and they can be the true weapon masters they set out to be.. masters of the self and the awesome power of their inner fighting spirit.
In it's place I would suggest not only methods for increasing innate BMR through dances and the like but active knowledge that allows a barbarian to remove someone's ability to actually cast magic altogether.
Yes, this works to some extent now but I was speaking of something more along the lines of pressure point strikes and similar knowledge that only someone who avoids all magic and focuses solely on their own self-mastery would know (maybe empaths might know it to some extent too but they focus on magic instead of the physical aspects.)
Since I don't see the warrior monk style guild in existence that I always wanted I suppose i'll explain a few of the ideas I had for that concept as barbarian ideas since I derived the warrior monk guild from barbs anyway in my mind.
Barbarians will have their BMR reduced greatly overall in the future or removed altogether depending on the needs of game balance. To remedy this terrible loss (and it is terrible since this should NOT happen. It's actually a good thing IMHO for a character class to have total immunity to magic and be hard to hit or hurt because they constantly fight and train.
Taking BMR from barbs is like someone saying "Hi guys! We feel sorry for the terrorists and insurgents that constantly make improvised explosive devices. Their devices only occasionally work on our armored vehicles though they are devestating when they do.
In the interest of fair play there will be no more armored vehicles for your use and everyone must run and hide inside a fortified bunker when available.
We have to be fair to the terrorists after all. They can attack us whenever they like and in strange or unusual ways to us. We have to take it, run, or hide when they attack us outside our excellent defenses you know.
However, it makes them mad when they can't hurt us because of our excellent training and high-end and highly specified skillsets. Therefore we are removing your tanks and armored personnel carriers. I hope these changes make it a more exciting and enjoyable police action for everyone involved.
Thank you and have a great day!
~ Congress
Please forgive any lack of current knowledge in this post as I haven't played a barbarian in several years and only recently returned.
Anyway... that silliness aside I would see pressure point attacks that cripple an opponent by paralyzing limbs or their magic ability. A high-end barbarian might be a master of this knowledge but perhaps they have to have both brawling experience and first aid (I'd prefer an actual anatomy skill and animal lore for this. I've never played an empath so I can't recall if there IS an anatomy lore skill.)
These types of items might even replace the 'magic' of other guilds for a barbarian allowing them to use their inner fire in ways that are new and exciting similar to advanced fictitious martial artists.
Attacks and abilities that a barbarian might learn instead of spells.
* Intimidating glare - an intimidation ability that completely stuns an opponent, induces a fear effect, or makes them fall down and beg for forgiveness.
* Steel Resolve - An ability that allows a barbarian to shrug off normal mundane attacks at a specified skill level. A low end barbarian could use this ability and gain an aura effect from their inner fire that grants them protection similar to cloth. High-end Barbarians could walk naked into battle but their inner fire would give them high-end heavy plate level damage absorption.
* Rain of death - the ability to enter a long period of RT but fire off a series of extremely fast but accurate shots with a bow. Requires dual loading ability before this ability can be learned.
* Resilient Heart - So long as your inner fire burns bright you will be able to reduce the potency to all magical attacks and effects directed against you instead of simply resisting the effect (Drains every time hit with magic while active and the higher the mentals and circle of the barb the less damage or effectiveness leaks through.)
* Rage of the Thunderstorm - A series of unarmed or blunt weapon attacks that occur in quick succession that sound like a meaty thundering.
* Similar attacks for all types of weapons since barbarians are supposed to master them. This should mean that they get special abilities based on a given weapon. IMHO.
In short.. give the barbarians attack abilities that can compensate for lack or defense. I'd even like to see the concept of 'chi' expanded into quests to find elder barbarian grand masters who know more esoteric forms of using their inner fire to actually effect critters at a distance. Chi projection abilities to do damage would draw on inner fire greatly but the ability to thrust their open palms toward a musk hog or whatever and see it get bowled over utilizing only the indomitable power of their inner fire and soul sounds like a good deal to me. Plus they can then trot over and kill said musk hog and get some of their fire back.
Give them things like this and people will be like.. BMR.. pfft. I've got a raging spirit blast wave (kamehameha) and a hiryushoten HA (probably misspelled chi tornado ala ranma 1/2, screw you and your wussy magic buddy. The last one could even be a nicely upgraded whirlwind learned from one of the grandmasters... "you know how to spin like the whirlingwind.. now master how to make it spin for you".
This way MR isn't the only defining ability of the guild and they can be the true weapon masters they set out to be.. masters of the self and the awesome power of their inner fighting spirit.
THELOST1
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 11:07 AM CST
Oh my. Where to begin?
>>this should NOT happen. It's actually a good thing IMHO for a character class to have total immunity to magic and be hard to hit or hurt because they constantly fight and train
This is a silly stance. You should become effectively immune when you have the defensive skills and buffs to outclass your opponent, not at some arbitrary point before that and certainly not just because your character belongs to a certain guild. That said, temporary immunity is still a planned Barbarian ability as far as I am aware.
Your comparison of magic-users to terrorists is shocking and in poor taste on top of being mostly inaccurate. You will have to review the many GM posts regarding Barbarian changes to see why because I have no interest in going over them all one by one with you.
Keep in mind also that yes, the game does indeed have to maintain a reasonable level of balance among guilds, something the GMs have had firmly in mind when designing the huge wave of updates that should be arriving within the next several months.
"Our system to simulate facial hair is more complex than most spells." -Armifer
>>this should NOT happen. It's actually a good thing IMHO for a character class to have total immunity to magic and be hard to hit or hurt because they constantly fight and train
This is a silly stance. You should become effectively immune when you have the defensive skills and buffs to outclass your opponent, not at some arbitrary point before that and certainly not just because your character belongs to a certain guild. That said, temporary immunity is still a planned Barbarian ability as far as I am aware.
Your comparison of magic-users to terrorists is shocking and in poor taste on top of being mostly inaccurate. You will have to review the many GM posts regarding Barbarian changes to see why because I have no interest in going over them all one by one with you.
Keep in mind also that yes, the game does indeed have to maintain a reasonable level of balance among guilds, something the GMs have had firmly in mind when designing the huge wave of updates that should be arriving within the next several months.
"Our system to simulate facial hair is more complex than most spells." -Armifer
MOOK1
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 11:14 AM CST
<<rant about losing active 100% of the time overpowered at high level magic immunity ability complete with tasteless and meaningless analogy.
I'll let the players of actual Barbs beat this into the ground.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
I'll let the players of actual Barbs beat this into the ground.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
VEE-REX
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 11:20 AM CST
This has gotta be a joke.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 11:41 AM CST
DEVAN
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 12:09 PM CST
>>Please forgive any lack of current knowledge in this post as I haven't played a barbarian in several years and only recently returned.
Why forgive ignorance you haven't bothered to rectify?
I support the meaty thundering, though. That sounds like a useful ability. In fact, all Barbarians should thunder meatily when they do anything.
>slap self
You slap your forehead in quick succession that sounds like meaty thundering.
Why forgive ignorance you haven't bothered to rectify?
I support the meaty thundering, though. That sounds like a useful ability. In fact, all Barbarians should thunder meatily when they do anything.
>slap self
You slap your forehead in quick succession that sounds like meaty thundering.
JULIAN
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/16/2010 08:53 PM CST
>>Shadow-X post<<
What are you talking about? Barbarians have some of the best magic in the game. For years they've enjoyed the best magic and the best anti-magic at the same time.
What are you talking about? Barbarians have some of the best magic in the game. For years they've enjoyed the best magic and the best anti-magic at the same time.
COOPERG8
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/17/2010 01:43 AM CST
Step 1: Dance dragon
Step 2: Boost every possible/nonexistent combat skill by
absurd amount.
Step 3: Win
"The Necromancers are outcasts and not the funny "shade and water" kind."
Step 2: Boost every possible/nonexistent combat skill by
absurd amount.
Step 3: Win
"The Necromancers are outcasts and not the funny "shade and water" kind."
VEE-REX
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/17/2010 03:21 AM CST
Step 1: Cry about Dragon/BMR
Step 2: Spam every possible/non-existent message board about your QQ.
Step 3. Step away from the computer in victory, your own trolling setting your trembling heart at ease.
And there you have it, people standing on the outside looking in.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Step 2: Spam every possible/non-existent message board about your QQ.
Step 3. Step away from the computer in victory, your own trolling setting your trembling heart at ease.
And there you have it, people standing on the outside looking in.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DGUTHRIE2
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/17/2010 04:41 AM CST
>>Wall of text<<
Didn't read it.
Oh. More QQ about BMR? Glad I didn't waste my time.
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
Didn't read it.
Oh. More QQ about BMR? Glad I didn't waste my time.
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
JARAGONA
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/17/2010 05:04 AM CST
>>Step 1: Cry about Dragon/BMR
Step 2: Spam every possible/non-existent message board about your QQ.
Step 3. Step away from the computer in victory, your own trolling setting your trembling heart at ease.
And there you have it, people standing on the outside looking in.<<
lol
Step 2: Spam every possible/non-existent message board about your QQ.
Step 3. Step away from the computer in victory, your own trolling setting your trembling heart at ease.
And there you have it, people standing on the outside looking in.<<
lol
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/17/2010 09:03 AM CST
Ahem.
Knock the snarking off and get back to the topic at hand, please.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
Knock the snarking off and get back to the topic at hand, please.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
ROADKILL090
JMF90
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/19/2010 06:22 PM CST
Did this thread really just happen, or am I stuck in a strange Dragonrealms dream again?
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/19/2010 06:23 PM CST
>>Did this thread really just happen, or am I stuck in a strange Dragonrealms dream again?
DragonRealms: your source for cutting edge political humor.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
DragonRealms: your source for cutting edge political humor.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
SUGARSNOUT
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/19/2010 07:40 PM CST
>What are you talking about? Barbarians have some of the best magic in the game. For years they've enjoyed the best magic and the best anti-magic at the same time.
Did Stolas buy Mazrian's account?
Did Stolas buy Mazrian's account?
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/19/2010 08:49 PM CST
Let's not continue down this slippery path.
Unless you guys have more to add about passive MR, this one looks done.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
Unless you guys have more to add about passive MR, this one looks done.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
SHADOW-X
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/23/2010 07:37 AM CST
Actually my analogy really was not completely 'serious'. I had noticed a lot of people whining on one side or another about the concept of BMR and its supposed uberness compared to magic.
I forget sometimes people haven't actually had to deal with those sorts of individuals in real life like I did. So, if I offended anyone then I do apologize.
I did toss in a few thoughts on specific abilities that might be nice to see in some form or other (weapon mastery specific abilities would be nice to see, for instance. Dual load is one concept used currently IMHO).
However, if passive BMR is going away I'd personally like to see the barbs get a trainable class skill specific to their inner fire or magic resistance.
That way it is not based solely on circle so much as how much time a barbarian spends training his/her inner fire. This would let it be 'uber defense' at high levels because they actively trained themselves to be able to resist magic. Give it something like a 1 or 2 rank per level minimum or something. This way those who spend time really working it can have the awesome, while those who simply want to circle can still have decent passive resistance but they can be hurt by magic because they didn't focus in over-training that capacity. Besides it would give barbarians something else to train since they can't train magic.
My suggestion call it 'Inner Mastery or Warrior Spirit' or something more barbarianish sounding maybe?. It could give bonuses to dances, but would mostly involve working as a way to actively master their own inner fire for combat bonuses and magic resistance.
I forget sometimes people haven't actually had to deal with those sorts of individuals in real life like I did. So, if I offended anyone then I do apologize.
I did toss in a few thoughts on specific abilities that might be nice to see in some form or other (weapon mastery specific abilities would be nice to see, for instance. Dual load is one concept used currently IMHO).
However, if passive BMR is going away I'd personally like to see the barbs get a trainable class skill specific to their inner fire or magic resistance.
That way it is not based solely on circle so much as how much time a barbarian spends training his/her inner fire. This would let it be 'uber defense' at high levels because they actively trained themselves to be able to resist magic. Give it something like a 1 or 2 rank per level minimum or something. This way those who spend time really working it can have the awesome, while those who simply want to circle can still have decent passive resistance but they can be hurt by magic because they didn't focus in over-training that capacity. Besides it would give barbarians something else to train since they can't train magic.
My suggestion call it 'Inner Mastery or Warrior Spirit' or something more barbarianish sounding maybe?. It could give bonuses to dances, but would mostly involve working as a way to actively master their own inner fire for combat bonuses and magic resistance.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/23/2010 08:10 AM CST
Much more reasonable of a suggestion :P
But I believe this suggested skill kind of contradicts the Warding meta skill and that they are trying to do away with super-niche skills, be it a guild-exclusive skill or otherwise IIRC.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
But I believe this suggested skill kind of contradicts the Warding meta skill and that they are trying to do away with super-niche skills, be it a guild-exclusive skill or otherwise IIRC.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/23/2010 04:52 PM CST
Yeah I think after our rewrite our BMR will be skill based via the warding skill. But it has been said it will be an active BMR and not passive so you will have to fire up some abilities for it to be turned on etc. And will be trained by using it.
I'm not sure if they will name our 'Warding' skill differently (something more barbaric i guess). I know it can be done.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
I'm not sure if they will name our 'Warding' skill differently (something more barbaric i guess). I know it can be done.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Passive MR Going Away
11/23/2010 07:10 PM CST
>>I'm not sure if they will name our 'Warding' skill differently (something more barbaric i guess). I know it can be done.
There's no intention of doing so, since "Warding," "Debilitation," "Augmentation," etc. were already picked to be very generic terms.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
There's no intention of doing so, since "Warding," "Debilitation," "Augmentation," etc. were already picked to be very generic terms.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
FORTISSABROK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 01:46 PM CST
I've always thought it was funny that mages get so many more overall TDP's in general from Magic Ranks + their inner wanna be barbarian skills (weapons, defenses... etc) yet they complain when their 150000 ranks in magic fails when they cast on a smaller Barbarian and it fizzles (any other class and they can wipe the floor with them).
With my experience mages have always been able to develop stronger characters in general, but it's once Barbarians (with the lack of magic TDP's) get bonus' (BMR or Dances) to actually put up a fight or win as the underdog (no magic)... That's when the mages complain.
Mages have the ability to attack multiple targets at once from any range, stun entire rooms, drop enemy's to their knee's... But the fact that it sometime's doesnt' work out because of our MR it makes the argument sound silly. Mages have a complex for going into a room and blowing everything up...
I say Barbarian's get 5 random skills added which are obserdly higher than their primary weapons to help compensate for the TDP that we miss out on (Awesomeness, Good Looks... etc)... Then I'd be fine with getting nerfed some of the magical resistance that we have...
We all could use the 1000's of extra TDP's that we don't get.
All in favor say "Ooooraaahhh"!
Mages = Magic + The rest of the skill sets.
Barbarian = Skill Set - Magic.
Anyone else see a problem here?
~Barbarian
With my experience mages have always been able to develop stronger characters in general, but it's once Barbarians (with the lack of magic TDP's) get bonus' (BMR or Dances) to actually put up a fight or win as the underdog (no magic)... That's when the mages complain.
Mages have the ability to attack multiple targets at once from any range, stun entire rooms, drop enemy's to their knee's... But the fact that it sometime's doesnt' work out because of our MR it makes the argument sound silly. Mages have a complex for going into a room and blowing everything up...
I say Barbarian's get 5 random skills added which are obserdly higher than their primary weapons to help compensate for the TDP that we miss out on (Awesomeness, Good Looks... etc)... Then I'd be fine with getting nerfed some of the magical resistance that we have...
We all could use the 1000's of extra TDP's that we don't get.
All in favor say "Ooooraaahhh"!
Mages = Magic + The rest of the skill sets.
Barbarian = Skill Set - Magic.
Anyone else see a problem here?
~Barbarian
DANFORDS2
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:03 PM CST
>the lack of magic TDP's
It's been said about a thousand times by GMs that Barbarians don't have fewer overall TDPs than any other guild.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
It's been said about a thousand times by GMs that Barbarians don't have fewer overall TDPs than any other guild.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:14 PM CST
>>It's been said about a thousand times by GMs that Barbarians don't have fewer overall TDPs than any other guild.
We are, however, entirely ready to concede the point in a left-handed gesture of equality.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
We are, however, entirely ready to concede the point in a left-handed gesture of equality.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
FORTISSABROK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:32 PM CST
>>It's been said about a thousand times by GMs that Barbarians don't have fewer overall TDPs than any other guild.
Yes, but we are still missing Magic Ranks and potential Overall Ranks (TDP's) in general as compaired to a mage... am I wrong?
Inner Magic: 0 00% clear (0/34) Harness Ability: 0 00% clear (0/34)
Power Perceive: 0 00% clear (0/34) Arcana: 0 00% clear (0/34)
Targeted Magic: 0 00% clear (0/34)
I understand that some people train their characters different ways which may compensate... It really depends on how you train... But we still are missing skills that other guilds have.
~Barbarian
Yes, but we are still missing Magic Ranks and potential Overall Ranks (TDP's) in general as compaired to a mage... am I wrong?
Inner Magic: 0 00% clear (0/34) Harness Ability: 0 00% clear (0/34)
Power Perceive: 0 00% clear (0/34) Arcana: 0 00% clear (0/34)
Targeted Magic: 0 00% clear (0/34)
I understand that some people train their characters different ways which may compensate... It really depends on how you train... But we still are missing skills that other guilds have.
~Barbarian
DR-KODIUS
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:35 PM CST
The skill changes look to shake up the TDP landscape quite a bit. You'll be getting several new Primary skills that can be trained simultaneously, and several new tertiary supernatural skills to boot.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ASHBAUGHJ2
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:35 PM CST
>>am I wrong?
Past posts by red named people seem to indicate so. They have done the statistics, and there's not a lack of TDPs according to them.
Ryken
--
lolbard 3.0
Past posts by red named people seem to indicate so. They have done the statistics, and there's not a lack of TDPs according to them.
Ryken
--
lolbard 3.0
MOOK1
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:46 PM CST
<<It's been said about a thousand times by GMs that Barbarians don't have fewer overall TDPs than any other guild.
<<Yes, but we are still missing Magic Ranks and potential Overall Ranks (TDP's) in general as compaired to a mage... am I wrong?
The answer is in the line you quoted above. Yes.
The time Barbarians spend not training magic skills is spent training not-magic skills instead. The bits just go somewhere else. The largest variability of TDPs instead comes from training style, i.e. power circler vs. jack of all trades, not guild based skillset designations or restrictions.
Another way that it may seem like Barbarians are on the short end of the stick TDP-wise is that they typically are several circles lower than other hunters in a given area because of their high weapon requirements. This means they'll typically have less TDPs compared to those other hunters because circling provides the lion-share of TDPs, and not that they earn less because of the inability to earn magic skill ranks.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
<<Yes, but we are still missing Magic Ranks and potential Overall Ranks (TDP's) in general as compaired to a mage... am I wrong?
The answer is in the line you quoted above. Yes.
The time Barbarians spend not training magic skills is spent training not-magic skills instead. The bits just go somewhere else. The largest variability of TDPs instead comes from training style, i.e. power circler vs. jack of all trades, not guild based skillset designations or restrictions.
Another way that it may seem like Barbarians are on the short end of the stick TDP-wise is that they typically are several circles lower than other hunters in a given area because of their high weapon requirements. This means they'll typically have less TDPs compared to those other hunters because circling provides the lion-share of TDPs, and not that they earn less because of the inability to earn magic skill ranks.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
NJP
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:56 PM CST
>>Another way that it may seem like Barbarians are on the short end of the stick TDP-wise is that they typically are several circles lower than other hunters in a given area because of their high weapon requirements. This means they'll typically have less TDPs compared to those other hunters because circling provides the lion-share of TDPs, and not that they earn less because of the inability to earn magic skill ranks.
^That.
I personally have no complaints about it, but that's really what the 'issue' is, if there was an issue. As an example, I hunt fairly regularly with a couple friends in neighboring rooms. I play an 84th circle Barbarian, one of those friends is a 120ish Moon Mage and the other is a 120ish Ranger. They have a definite TDP advantage over me, but it's not on a circle-by-circle basis, it's just that their hunting level at their circle equates to my hunting level at mine.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
^That.
I personally have no complaints about it, but that's really what the 'issue' is, if there was an issue. As an example, I hunt fairly regularly with a couple friends in neighboring rooms. I play an 84th circle Barbarian, one of those friends is a 120ish Moon Mage and the other is a 120ish Ranger. They have a definite TDP advantage over me, but it's not on a circle-by-circle basis, it's just that their hunting level at their circle equates to my hunting level at mine.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
FORTISSABROK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 02:59 PM CST
Thank you everyone for your informational responses.
Maybe a GM (Red named people LOL) or another person could answer my last question of... So if we (Barbarian vs. Mage) each had X ranks in every skill. Barbarian's not having need for magic (0 Ranks) and Mages having an additional X*5 (Magic Ranks) ranks over the Barbarian... Do us Barbarians then get an adjusted amount of TDP's to compensate for these potential magic ranks and TDP's we miss out on?
~Barbarian
Maybe a GM (Red named people LOL) or another person could answer my last question of... So if we (Barbarian vs. Mage) each had X ranks in every skill. Barbarian's not having need for magic (0 Ranks) and Mages having an additional X*5 (Magic Ranks) ranks over the Barbarian... Do us Barbarians then get an adjusted amount of TDP's to compensate for these potential magic ranks and TDP's we miss out on?
~Barbarian
MOOK1
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:05 PM CST
<<Do us Barbarians then get an adjusted amount of TDP's to compensate for these potential magic ranks and TDP's we miss out on?
Hi mods! I'm trying so very hard not to /facepalm here.
Oops... Oh well, better luck next time.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Hi mods! I'm trying so very hard not to /facepalm here.
Oops... Oh well, better luck next time.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
DR-KODIUS
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:15 PM CST
In the new system Barbarians will have a Supernatural skillset that replaces magic. So the answer to your question is "wait and see".
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
FORTISSABROK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:18 PM CST
>>Hi mods! I'm trying so very hard not to /facepalm here.
I've got a better idea, how about you actually be constructive by actually helping someone understand something that they are trying to piece together? Wrong or Right.
I've got a better idea, how about you actually be constructive by actually helping someone understand something that they are trying to piece together? Wrong or Right.
FORTISSABROK
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:19 PM CST
>> In the new system Barbarians will have a Supernatural skillset that replaces magic. So the answer to your question is "wait and see".
Thank you Kodius.
Thank you Kodius.
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:19 PM CST
And, unless we can keep this constructive and not go in circles, this one will be done.
So show me all those constructive, well thought out ideas that you have, all polite and such.
Thank you!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
So show me all those constructive, well thought out ideas that you have, all polite and such.
Thank you!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
MOOK1
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:20 PM CST
<<I've got a better idea, how about you actually be constructive by actually helping someone understand something that they are trying to piece together? Wrong or Right.
Umm... already tried that a few posts up. You seemed to have ignored it. Kthxbye.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Umm... already tried that a few posts up. You seemed to have ignored it. Kthxbye.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
VIOLENTXSHINOBI
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:23 PM CST
Lol. Evrans post was the best explanation of what the perceived problem is.
~Sulakhan
"Under the sword lifted high, there is hell making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of bliss."
~Miyamoto Musashi
~Sulakhan
"Under the sword lifted high, there is hell making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of bliss."
~Miyamoto Musashi
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Passive MR Going Away
12/09/2010 03:25 PM CST
And looks like we're done.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
Thanks!
Svafa
___
If you have questions or comments, please email me at DR-SVAFA@PLAY.NET or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at
DR-SIDATURA@PLAY.NET or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-ANNWYL@PLAY.NET.
