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Well, since no one is willing to rewrite magic theory, how about a small revision? I really dont care how its done so long as both sides are better off than they are now.
I enjoy mastication. I masticate three to four times a day. Sometimes I masticate alone while in front of my TV and sometimes I masticate with my family.
RAYJE
CONRADB
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 02:13 PM CDT
>>How about that Barbarian meditation that allows him to better observe his surroundings. Giving him a boost to defending stealth attacks and benefiting the enchantes (the beneficial ones that Renwulf listed) and resisting the negative enchantes (the negative ones that Renwulf listed). BTW, good job on the list, Renwulf.
Ah, so you want to benefit from good enchantes and resist negative enchantes? How balanced and non-selfish you are, SIMON.
>>She didn't resist it. She was immobilized. It didn't interupt her enchante. Granted I didn't think it would, but I was just showing that no we really didn't have a roar that was capable of interupting an enchante. Granted what Iayn just said now is completely accurate; they won't be "starting" any enchantes while they are immobilized.
Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior. I'm fine with immobilized bards not being able to play enchantes, but not if you can roar a bard many circles higher but a bard can't resolve a barb at equal circle.
Are you guys taking game balance into account? You seem to be just trying to protect and enhance the abilities of your own characters.
E
Ah, so you want to benefit from good enchantes and resist negative enchantes? How balanced and non-selfish you are, SIMON.
>>She didn't resist it. She was immobilized. It didn't interupt her enchante. Granted I didn't think it would, but I was just showing that no we really didn't have a roar that was capable of interupting an enchante. Granted what Iayn just said now is completely accurate; they won't be "starting" any enchantes while they are immobilized.
Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior. I'm fine with immobilized bards not being able to play enchantes, but not if you can roar a bard many circles higher but a bard can't resolve a barb at equal circle.
Are you guys taking game balance into account? You seem to be just trying to protect and enhance the abilities of your own characters.
E
DWARB-POWER
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 03:22 PM CDT
<<Ah, so you want to benefit from good enchantes and resist negative enchantes? How balanced and non-selfish you are, SIMON.>>
I'd prefer to resist everything as we are doing now and I've stated as such already. It's almost like those Bard players who want NO resistance to their enchantes. How balanced and non-selfish they are, thank you for proving my point. :)
All in all, I would like ideas to interact with Bards and this would be one way. The GMs did ask for ideas, even off the wall ideas. I figure if my character's body is telling me to not interact with mana (i.e. - resist it). I can also tell my body to interact with or repel the outside world around me (in this case, music and defending against stealth attacks) via some form of meditation.
<<Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior. I'm fine with immobilized bards not being able to play enchantes, but not if you can roar a bard many circles higher but a bard can't resolve a barb at equal circle.>>
Because roars don't take circle into account.
<<Are you guys taking game balance into account? You seem to be just trying to protect and enhance the abilities of your own characters.>>
I'm not sure about others, but I was. Until Dartenian and others mentioned NO RESISTANCE with enchantes. Now I'm just throwing out ideas as per GM request.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
I'd prefer to resist everything as we are doing now and I've stated as such already. It's almost like those Bard players who want NO resistance to their enchantes. How balanced and non-selfish they are, thank you for proving my point. :)
All in all, I would like ideas to interact with Bards and this would be one way. The GMs did ask for ideas, even off the wall ideas. I figure if my character's body is telling me to not interact with mana (i.e. - resist it). I can also tell my body to interact with or repel the outside world around me (in this case, music and defending against stealth attacks) via some form of meditation.
<<Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior. I'm fine with immobilized bards not being able to play enchantes, but not if you can roar a bard many circles higher but a bard can't resolve a barb at equal circle.>>
Because roars don't take circle into account.
<<Are you guys taking game balance into account? You seem to be just trying to protect and enhance the abilities of your own characters.>>
I'm not sure about others, but I was. Until Dartenian and others mentioned NO RESISTANCE with enchantes. Now I'm just throwing out ideas as per GM request.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
VROTSOSJ
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 03:23 PM CDT
>>Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior. I'm fine with immobilized bards not being able to play enchantes, but not if you can roar a bard many circles higher but a bard can't resolve a barb at equal circle.
If the bard gets past BMR, odds are they will win the stat contest just due to the stat training focus of each guild. Same with a moon mage and MB etc...
People often get hung up on something like...
Navak can roar me! I have 50 circles and more points in every stat than him!
While ignoring the fact that I took advantage of every possible way to bonus my roar and could only do it once.
I for one still recall that literally any bard (I couldn't find one that failed) over fifth circle could balm/resolve me until I was around 40-50th circle because they could overcome the BMR in the room and even if min mana got past resistance I couldn't win the stat contest. That just goes to show how things do need work because now most bards need to add 10-15 mana or more to min prep in order to overcome Navak just standing there if they're around his circle and those under his circle have very little chance of using anything.
However, this isn't about stat vs stat or spell vs stat or stats or anything like that. It's about general ideas (not even theory unless you are using it to clarify or as an example) and how you would like things to work.
e.g. I don't want to ever take an IF hit from an enchante and I think a barb just standing there should make the bard so scared they can't play anything and all of their enchantes stop.
I'm guessing that idea isn't really going to be accepted since it's not really playable but that is what they are looking for not technical stuff.
I am --- Navak
If the bard gets past BMR, odds are they will win the stat contest just due to the stat training focus of each guild. Same with a moon mage and MB etc...
People often get hung up on something like...
Navak can roar me! I have 50 circles and more points in every stat than him!
While ignoring the fact that I took advantage of every possible way to bonus my roar and could only do it once.
I for one still recall that literally any bard (I couldn't find one that failed) over fifth circle could balm/resolve me until I was around 40-50th circle because they could overcome the BMR in the room and even if min mana got past resistance I couldn't win the stat contest. That just goes to show how things do need work because now most bards need to add 10-15 mana or more to min prep in order to overcome Navak just standing there if they're around his circle and those under his circle have very little chance of using anything.
However, this isn't about stat vs stat or spell vs stat or stats or anything like that. It's about general ideas (not even theory unless you are using it to clarify or as an example) and how you would like things to work.
e.g. I don't want to ever take an IF hit from an enchante and I think a barb just standing there should make the bard so scared they can't play anything and all of their enchantes stop.
I'm guessing that idea isn't really going to be accepted since it's not really playable but that is what they are looking for not technical stuff.
I am --- Navak
DR-IAYN
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 04:42 PM CDT
<<However, this isn't about stat vs stat or spell vs stat or stats or anything like that. It's about general ideas (not even theory unless you are using it to clarify or as an example) and how you would like things to work.
Correct.
<<Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior.
I really wouldn't compare Ternith to another player on the basis of circle.
As far as what powers roars and enchantes, let's end posts about that in this thread now. This is turning to guild v guild and that is the exact opposite of what this thread is intended to be about.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
Correct.
<<Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior.
I really wouldn't compare Ternith to another player on the basis of circle.
As far as what powers roars and enchantes, let's end posts about that in this thread now. This is turning to guild v guild and that is the exact opposite of what this thread is intended to be about.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
DAERLYNN
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 05:30 PM CDT
One of the problems appears to be that some people want to take an all-or-nothing stance. I doubt very few bards truly want barbs to have no resistance, and I would hope that most barbs would see the limitations that bards are currently working under.
I would like to see each enchante rated as to how much of the enchante effect is based upon music and how much is based upon magic, instead of the same percentage across the board. Perhaps there could also be a modifier based upon stats, with magic-based enchantes being modified by one of the mental stats, and music-based enchantes modified by charisma. By blending the applicable pro-rated ranks with the modification, you could then come up with the 'attack' value of the enchante.
Each other person's MR could be done similarly, using the magic percentage of the enchante to determine the basic MR of the 'defense' value. Therefore a magic-heavy enchante would use most of the MR, a music-heavy one would use little of MR. I would, however, get rid of the inner-fire hit.
I would also maybe factor in a higher resistance for barbs, because of their resistance training, that perhaps they have a higher resistance to music as well, just to be fair and to keep with current game policies. Where some have proposed a toggle on/off depending on whether the barb wanted this, I was thinking something else.
Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship. Not all barbs would want this, a fair point, and I don't think that even for the barbs that do, they should be affected by just any bard - and perhaps this would go for all guilds, not just barbs. In the celtic (or norse skald, or any of the bard/warrior interaction mythos), the warrior was affected by bards of his own tribe/clan/etc. It was a cultural thing, and also by the ability of the bard to either praise the warrior's name, or defame it, through the ages for his tribe. Honor was huge part of it. While most of that is most likely impossible to do in DR, we could use something like the citizenship in lieu of tribe or clan, where a barb can be more easily affected (musically) by a bard of his/her own province. So in short, citizenship would be the 'on' toggle, but only for bards that were citizens of the same province.
No matter how done, most enchantes should work individually, as stated many times. If a barb resists, they resist for themselves but not for the entire room. Also, each enchante needs to be looked at. Why should anyone resist Aura of Tongues, it is working on my deciphering of other sounds? (I sure wish there were good rp opportunites for this enchante). What about Sanctuary? If a barb resists, does that make the whole thing useless? How would that work?
Also, as stated above, each enchante would need to be rated for their own music/magic mix. This would be based on actual effect (Resolve would seem very magic, Balm and Rage perhaps not, if you take the theory that music affects the emotions), but also perhaps looking at the type of bard that would use them. Also, I think it would be good if we knew which ones would be magic based, and which were music based. This would also give perhaps different training paths to bards. Ideally, perhaps the music ones would also work better on certain instruments than others.
I am just trying to think outside the box here, not trying to step on any barbarian toes; but I do believe that something needs to be done so that a bard can actually use enchantes in the way that they are designed to be used. This is currently not the case.
Daerlynn
I would like to see each enchante rated as to how much of the enchante effect is based upon music and how much is based upon magic, instead of the same percentage across the board. Perhaps there could also be a modifier based upon stats, with magic-based enchantes being modified by one of the mental stats, and music-based enchantes modified by charisma. By blending the applicable pro-rated ranks with the modification, you could then come up with the 'attack' value of the enchante.
Each other person's MR could be done similarly, using the magic percentage of the enchante to determine the basic MR of the 'defense' value. Therefore a magic-heavy enchante would use most of the MR, a music-heavy one would use little of MR. I would, however, get rid of the inner-fire hit.
I would also maybe factor in a higher resistance for barbs, because of their resistance training, that perhaps they have a higher resistance to music as well, just to be fair and to keep with current game policies. Where some have proposed a toggle on/off depending on whether the barb wanted this, I was thinking something else.
Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship. Not all barbs would want this, a fair point, and I don't think that even for the barbs that do, they should be affected by just any bard - and perhaps this would go for all guilds, not just barbs. In the celtic (or norse skald, or any of the bard/warrior interaction mythos), the warrior was affected by bards of his own tribe/clan/etc. It was a cultural thing, and also by the ability of the bard to either praise the warrior's name, or defame it, through the ages for his tribe. Honor was huge part of it. While most of that is most likely impossible to do in DR, we could use something like the citizenship in lieu of tribe or clan, where a barb can be more easily affected (musically) by a bard of his/her own province. So in short, citizenship would be the 'on' toggle, but only for bards that were citizens of the same province.
No matter how done, most enchantes should work individually, as stated many times. If a barb resists, they resist for themselves but not for the entire room. Also, each enchante needs to be looked at. Why should anyone resist Aura of Tongues, it is working on my deciphering of other sounds? (I sure wish there were good rp opportunites for this enchante). What about Sanctuary? If a barb resists, does that make the whole thing useless? How would that work?
Also, as stated above, each enchante would need to be rated for their own music/magic mix. This would be based on actual effect (Resolve would seem very magic, Balm and Rage perhaps not, if you take the theory that music affects the emotions), but also perhaps looking at the type of bard that would use them. Also, I think it would be good if we knew which ones would be magic based, and which were music based. This would also give perhaps different training paths to bards. Ideally, perhaps the music ones would also work better on certain instruments than others.
I am just trying to think outside the box here, not trying to step on any barbarian toes; but I do believe that something needs to be done so that a bard can actually use enchantes in the way that they are designed to be used. This is currently not the case.
Daerlynn
BEVERAGEK
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 05:52 PM CDT
Great post Daerlynn.
>>Why should anyone resist Aura of Tongues, it is working on my deciphering of other sounds? (I sure wish there were good rp opportunites for this enchante). What about Sanctuary? If a barb resists, does that make the whole thing useless? How would that work?
<<
I think it's pretty much gotta boil down to catagorizing each individual enchante. The ones that have no affect on others, the ones that affect the area and thus everyone in it, and the ones that only affect those who hear the enchante.
Maelstrom is something I could see that would be a entire room resistance type enchante, while Resolve would be the selective targetted kind of enchante that everyone has suggested.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
>>Why should anyone resist Aura of Tongues, it is working on my deciphering of other sounds? (I sure wish there were good rp opportunites for this enchante). What about Sanctuary? If a barb resists, does that make the whole thing useless? How would that work?
<<
I think it's pretty much gotta boil down to catagorizing each individual enchante. The ones that have no affect on others, the ones that affect the area and thus everyone in it, and the ones that only affect those who hear the enchante.
Maelstrom is something I could see that would be a entire room resistance type enchante, while Resolve would be the selective targetted kind of enchante that everyone has suggested.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
HELLCAT
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/01/2006 10:28 PM CDT
>Ternith, why do you think its ok that you even CAN roar a bard 16 circles your senior.
Well if you take an good and honest look at what I had to do to roar that bardess you'd see why it was okay. It was a specilized situation, using every avaliable advantage open to my character as barbarian to increase the power of a roar in an attempt to interupt a single, lowest mana influxed enchante to show that even under that situations, it was impossible. For your information, as I can only assume you obviously lacked the capability to read the post and see for yourself, I had to use warpaint, a war helm, and berserk nightmare to pull off Roar Wail to the effect it had. But thank you for showing your horse-blinder, OMG thats stupid!!11one view of the post. Very insightful.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
Well if you take an good and honest look at what I had to do to roar that bardess you'd see why it was okay. It was a specilized situation, using every avaliable advantage open to my character as barbarian to increase the power of a roar in an attempt to interupt a single, lowest mana influxed enchante to show that even under that situations, it was impossible. For your information, as I can only assume you obviously lacked the capability to read the post and see for yourself, I had to use warpaint, a war helm, and berserk nightmare to pull off Roar Wail to the effect it had. But thank you for showing your horse-blinder, OMG thats stupid!!11one view of the post. Very insightful.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
VISHNIAE1
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 12:26 AM CDT
It was a specilized situation, using every avaliable advantage open to my character as barbarian
Maybe this part belongs more to the bard folders but since we're on the topic... why not bards too. I mean, if we had things that help us overcome MR in general we could walk into a room and have for say Bluff X, Inspire, Specialized instrument (horns\drums ect ect) and Aura of confidence (Just throwing names off the top of my head) to boost our ability to deal with MR. After all we have our mojo. Why not use it for such abilities.
Just a thought.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
Maybe this part belongs more to the bard folders but since we're on the topic... why not bards too. I mean, if we had things that help us overcome MR in general we could walk into a room and have for say Bluff X, Inspire, Specialized instrument (horns\drums ect ect) and Aura of confidence (Just throwing names off the top of my head) to boost our ability to deal with MR. After all we have our mojo. Why not use it for such abilities.
Just a thought.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
HELLCAT
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 01:01 AM CDT
>Maybe this part belongs more to the bard folders but since we're on the topic... why not bards too. I mean, if we had things that help us overcome MR in general we could walk into a room and have for say Bluff X, Inspire, Specialized instrument (horns\drums ect ect) and Aura of confidence (Just throwing names off the top of my head) to boost our ability to deal with MR. After all we have our mojo. Why not use it for such abilities.
Just a thought.
I'd agree that this does belong in the bard folder but to address your point, you already have things that will aid you in overcoming MR in general. It is your mojo. Type Exp Magic for a full list of your gadgets. Along with those you have, or rather you will have your primary skill set of music to aid you as well as its been stated that music will be the main factor in the creation and sustatining of your spell patterns. However, none of what that test had anything to do with Barbarian Magic Resistance, or Magic Resistance. It was used to prove that music, as yet, is not the primary factor in the creation of enchantes as has been alluded to. The primary factor in the creation of enchantes to date is magic. I personally do hope that in the future, that music is allowed to play a factor in the spell pattern creation and that it is taken into account if the music is interupted the pattern of the enchante fails, and then enchante would end as would have been the case during the testing.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
Just a thought.
I'd agree that this does belong in the bard folder but to address your point, you already have things that will aid you in overcoming MR in general. It is your mojo. Type Exp Magic for a full list of your gadgets. Along with those you have, or rather you will have your primary skill set of music to aid you as well as its been stated that music will be the main factor in the creation and sustatining of your spell patterns. However, none of what that test had anything to do with Barbarian Magic Resistance, or Magic Resistance. It was used to prove that music, as yet, is not the primary factor in the creation of enchantes as has been alluded to. The primary factor in the creation of enchantes to date is magic. I personally do hope that in the future, that music is allowed to play a factor in the spell pattern creation and that it is taken into account if the music is interupted the pattern of the enchante fails, and then enchante would end as would have been the case during the testing.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
VISHNIAE1
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 04:49 AM CDT
I'd agree that this does belong in the bard folder but to address your point, you already have things that will aid you in overcoming MR in general. It is your mojo. Type Exp Magic for a full list of your gadgets. Along with those you have, or rather you will have your primary skill set of music to aid you as well as its been stated that music will be the main factor in the creation and sustatining of your spell patterns. However, none of what that test had anything to do with Barbarian Magic Resistance, or Magic Resistance. It was used to prove that music, as yet, is not the primary factor in the creation of enchantes as has been alluded to. The primary factor in the creation of enchantes to date is magic. I personally do hope that in the future, that music is allowed to play a factor in the spell pattern creation and that it is taken into account if the music is interupted the pattern of the enchante fails, and then enchante would end as would have been the case during the testing.
Like you said, all those gadgets are supposed to help, but at the moment at least some of them do not (or just do not have the punch). Granted, this review and changing the way MR interacts may solve them all, but that doesn't mean that we don't need more "perks" to help us bard with certain things. To tell you the truth, right now I don't feel any great difference when starting an enchante with high mojo or low one. This feeler may be completely untrue, but at least that's how it seems to me.
Now every guild has it's own neat tricks to help along it's course. No one is suggesting for example that weapons ranks, evasion, shield, parry and inner fire are all barbarians need for making them powerful and thus roars, dances and zerks are unnecessary. Similary no one will say that thieves already hide well thus being able to ambush well, so there's no reason for the ability to backstab, or that rangers don't need sniping since they're good at archery anyway. This is not at any way a stab at barb abilities but rather I'm trying to reinforce the point that tricks and abilities can augment our skills.
When you were able to affect a higher level bardess you said you used every ability you had in your disposal that could help. Those abilities main purpose is not necessarily aimed at doing just that, but by stacking them up perhaps sometimes by using even secondery features you were able to do what you did.
All I'm saying is that future bard abilities could allow for some features that increase the bard's ability to work with groups, affect interaction with MR or anything of the sort, be it by the use of our mojo or anything else.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
Like you said, all those gadgets are supposed to help, but at the moment at least some of them do not (or just do not have the punch). Granted, this review and changing the way MR interacts may solve them all, but that doesn't mean that we don't need more "perks" to help us bard with certain things. To tell you the truth, right now I don't feel any great difference when starting an enchante with high mojo or low one. This feeler may be completely untrue, but at least that's how it seems to me.
Now every guild has it's own neat tricks to help along it's course. No one is suggesting for example that weapons ranks, evasion, shield, parry and inner fire are all barbarians need for making them powerful and thus roars, dances and zerks are unnecessary. Similary no one will say that thieves already hide well thus being able to ambush well, so there's no reason for the ability to backstab, or that rangers don't need sniping since they're good at archery anyway. This is not at any way a stab at barb abilities but rather I'm trying to reinforce the point that tricks and abilities can augment our skills.
When you were able to affect a higher level bardess you said you used every ability you had in your disposal that could help. Those abilities main purpose is not necessarily aimed at doing just that, but by stacking them up perhaps sometimes by using even secondery features you were able to do what you did.
All I'm saying is that future bard abilities could allow for some features that increase the bard's ability to work with groups, affect interaction with MR or anything of the sort, be it by the use of our mojo or anything else.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
BEEJAY19
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 11:05 AM CDT
Bards can use cjs. Barbarians "can't" use them.
Player of Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
Player of Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
HELLCAT
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 11:16 AM CDT
I see what your saying and while I do respect it, I'd point out that yes I do believe your posting ideas that would benefit a bard, in the wrong folder. But to address a single point in your post that had to do directly with barbarians so that you understand it better:
>When you were able to affect a higher level bardess you said you used every ability you had in your disposal that could help. Those abilities main purpose is not necessarily aimed at doing just that, but by stacking them up perhaps sometimes by using even secondery features you were able to do what you did.
In fact, each of those items (war helm and the war paint when screamed at) and the one ability (berserk nightmare) are intended to raise the Intimidation Factor of a barbarian.
(For quick side note: When you use your PM to effect something, would you like it to drop your intelligence? Not alot of us like it either when we berserk.)
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
>When you were able to affect a higher level bardess you said you used every ability you had in your disposal that could help. Those abilities main purpose is not necessarily aimed at doing just that, but by stacking them up perhaps sometimes by using even secondery features you were able to do what you did.
In fact, each of those items (war helm and the war paint when screamed at) and the one ability (berserk nightmare) are intended to raise the Intimidation Factor of a barbarian.
(For quick side note: When you use your PM to effect something, would you like it to drop your intelligence? Not alot of us like it either when we berserk.)
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
VISHNIAE1
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 01:14 PM CDT
I see what your saying and while I do respect it, I'd point out that yes I do believe your posting ideas that would benefit a bard, in the wrong folder. But to address a single point in your post that had to do directly with barbarians so that you understand it better:
Heh, I never claimed to understand barbarians intricately, but I think my point still stands. Nevertheless, you're right, and it is the wrong folder ;P
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
Heh, I never claimed to understand barbarians intricately, but I think my point still stands. Nevertheless, you're right, and it is the wrong folder ;P
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 06:06 PM CDT
>Ah, so you want to benefit from good enchantes and resist negative enchantes? How balanced and non-selfish you are, SIMON.
Hey, I want that too!
>Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship.
See, I love this idea but have no idea how it could be implemented with current magic theory.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
Hey, I want that too!
>Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship.
See, I love this idea but have no idea how it could be implemented with current magic theory.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
DIVINEWIND
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 06:59 PM CDT
All I'm going to say is BMR should have been made a trainable skill years ago.
- Galren "Better than You" Moonskin
- Galren "Better than You" Moonskin
HELLCAT
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 07:11 PM CDT
>Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship.
I think her vision was perfect. Right up to that point where a bard starts to use magic. As soon as enchantes use music and Just Music to work a song that increases the battle frenzy or skill of their companions, I'd be all for it.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
I think her vision was perfect. Right up to that point where a bard starts to use magic. As soon as enchantes use music and Just Music to work a song that increases the battle frenzy or skill of their companions, I'd be all for it.
Ternith Sjomah
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
DWARB-POWER
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 07:26 PM CDT
I wouldn't mind if BMR was made into a trainable skill. How would that work in terms of training it and grandfathering it?
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
CONRADB
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/02/2006 11:56 PM CDT
>Maelona had envisioned at one point the celtic bard/warrior relationship.
>I think her vision was perfect. Right up to that point where a bard starts to use magic. As soon as enchantes use music and Just Music to work a song that increases the battle frenzy or skill of their companions, I'd be all for it.
>Ternith Sjomah
Ok, I'm going to table my thoughts on enchantes and see if we can agree on the lowest common demoninator, which is barbs apply full BMR to enchantes but enchantes go from a room MR check to a by-individual check so bards can still get them off in a room with a barb in it. There should still be some sort of escalating room MR if many more resisters are in the room because you don't want a bard successfully resolving when there are 50 people in a room but room MR could definitely be lowered between 1-20 or so people in the room.
As Daery stated so eloquently I also think bards share a connection with the barb guild because there is a branch of bard-dom in the battle-chanter/skald vein. We currently have two pure vocal abilities, piercing whistle and scream defiance. A piercing whistle basically stops critter attacks and is used as a "uh oh I just came out of stun and can't wait 10 seconds for my enchante to kick in" and scream defiance is a little-used baby roar which hurt's everybody's head if the bard totally outclasses the opponent. Piercing whistle is used a lot while scream defiance isn't because often its asking for death - your voice is shot and the bard can't continue enchantes after it.
Dart and Ssra are developing (I believe) 5 new bardic screams that will use less bard resources (Mojo, voice recovery time, etc) and have undisclosed effects. I expect these to be kind of roar-like - from what I understand they are purely vocal and maybe intimidation based. I HOPE they're roar-like because your roars are awesome and a neat fear-based system (and I think bards are the second guild in number of fear-based effects they can generate). What if the things that enhanced roars also enhanced screams? Is that stealing from you guys?
Since these are new things that aren't related to magic, can we come up with scream ideas that would bonus / be bonused by barb roars/dances/berserks? I want to specifically say that I'm not asking for Barb roar abilities to be duplicated to bards, but these 5 roars are on the 2006 deliverables list and since they are vocal-based, I assume some effects are going to be similar. I believe the official thought on screams at this point is its the bard using the vocal instrument to create a piercing noise, but Im thinking maybe have it be a few words
Some of these are out there/near unimplementable...just putting up a bunch of ideas and seeing how we could be complimentary to barbs in some area without "going there" with magic. I think the Barb GMs will be looking at screams before they go live to make sure they don't step on the toes of barb guild abilities, so might as well put some ideas out there and get some complimentary action...
SCREAM BATTLE <verse>: This is a pre-battle prep scream since the bard also types out a verse out. Enrages calmed things. Boosts IF. Raises discipline of all who hear it.
SCREAM RALLY: All prone PCs attempt to jump to standing. Chance of shaking off stun. Bonuses dance duration. Raises agility.
SCREAM PRIDE: Has a chance to pull anyone immobilized by fear-based effects out. Bonuses resistance to fear-based attacks.
SCREAM FLOKKR: Lighthearted scream that reduces recovery time for screams / roars.
SCREAM SONGSWORN: (the songsworn are big bard bodyguards) Can be SCREAMed even if stunned/immo. Skill check to see if you unstun/immo yourself. Unstuns and re-mobilizes(?) all PCs in the room. If the SCREAMER successfully self-unstuns, chance of becoming overwhelmed by the stun later.
SCREAM INSANITY: Bonuses berzerk duration and intensity. Causes everything to have a chance of retreating/readvancing other stuff, including critter-on-critter.
SCREAM REPEAT <target PC>: Repeats the last scream/roar that the target used, even if you don't know it yourself. Your version is inferior to target's.
SCREAM PAIN: Causes internal head damage to listeners. Can damage the screamer himself. Rewrite of SCREAM DEFIANCE.
SCREAM WARHORN: Warhorn must be out. Raises IF and Mojo. Does something cool that is bonused by the Barb roar warhorn.
ROAR WARHORN: Warhorn must be out. Raises IF and Mojo. Does something cool that is bonused by the Bard scream warhorn.
Just some crazy ideas...any roars that come to mind that could specifically effect bards or have a special extra effect for bards?
E
>I think her vision was perfect. Right up to that point where a bard starts to use magic. As soon as enchantes use music and Just Music to work a song that increases the battle frenzy or skill of their companions, I'd be all for it.
>Ternith Sjomah
Ok, I'm going to table my thoughts on enchantes and see if we can agree on the lowest common demoninator, which is barbs apply full BMR to enchantes but enchantes go from a room MR check to a by-individual check so bards can still get them off in a room with a barb in it. There should still be some sort of escalating room MR if many more resisters are in the room because you don't want a bard successfully resolving when there are 50 people in a room but room MR could definitely be lowered between 1-20 or so people in the room.
As Daery stated so eloquently I also think bards share a connection with the barb guild because there is a branch of bard-dom in the battle-chanter/skald vein. We currently have two pure vocal abilities, piercing whistle and scream defiance. A piercing whistle basically stops critter attacks and is used as a "uh oh I just came out of stun and can't wait 10 seconds for my enchante to kick in" and scream defiance is a little-used baby roar which hurt's everybody's head if the bard totally outclasses the opponent. Piercing whistle is used a lot while scream defiance isn't because often its asking for death - your voice is shot and the bard can't continue enchantes after it.
Dart and Ssra are developing (I believe) 5 new bardic screams that will use less bard resources (Mojo, voice recovery time, etc) and have undisclosed effects. I expect these to be kind of roar-like - from what I understand they are purely vocal and maybe intimidation based. I HOPE they're roar-like because your roars are awesome and a neat fear-based system (and I think bards are the second guild in number of fear-based effects they can generate). What if the things that enhanced roars also enhanced screams? Is that stealing from you guys?
Since these are new things that aren't related to magic, can we come up with scream ideas that would bonus / be bonused by barb roars/dances/berserks? I want to specifically say that I'm not asking for Barb roar abilities to be duplicated to bards, but these 5 roars are on the 2006 deliverables list and since they are vocal-based, I assume some effects are going to be similar. I believe the official thought on screams at this point is its the bard using the vocal instrument to create a piercing noise, but Im thinking maybe have it be a few words
Some of these are out there/near unimplementable...just putting up a bunch of ideas and seeing how we could be complimentary to barbs in some area without "going there" with magic. I think the Barb GMs will be looking at screams before they go live to make sure they don't step on the toes of barb guild abilities, so might as well put some ideas out there and get some complimentary action...
SCREAM BATTLE <verse>: This is a pre-battle prep scream since the bard also types out a verse out. Enrages calmed things. Boosts IF. Raises discipline of all who hear it.
SCREAM RALLY: All prone PCs attempt to jump to standing. Chance of shaking off stun. Bonuses dance duration. Raises agility.
SCREAM PRIDE: Has a chance to pull anyone immobilized by fear-based effects out. Bonuses resistance to fear-based attacks.
SCREAM FLOKKR: Lighthearted scream that reduces recovery time for screams / roars.
SCREAM SONGSWORN: (the songsworn are big bard bodyguards) Can be SCREAMed even if stunned/immo. Skill check to see if you unstun/immo yourself. Unstuns and re-mobilizes(?) all PCs in the room. If the SCREAMER successfully self-unstuns, chance of becoming overwhelmed by the stun later.
SCREAM INSANITY: Bonuses berzerk duration and intensity. Causes everything to have a chance of retreating/readvancing other stuff, including critter-on-critter.
SCREAM REPEAT <target PC>: Repeats the last scream/roar that the target used, even if you don't know it yourself. Your version is inferior to target's.
SCREAM PAIN: Causes internal head damage to listeners. Can damage the screamer himself. Rewrite of SCREAM DEFIANCE.
SCREAM WARHORN: Warhorn must be out. Raises IF and Mojo. Does something cool that is bonused by the Barb roar warhorn.
ROAR WARHORN: Warhorn must be out. Raises IF and Mojo. Does something cool that is bonused by the Bard scream warhorn.
Just some crazy ideas...any roars that come to mind that could specifically effect bards or have a special extra effect for bards?
E
BEVERAGEK
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 12:32 AM CDT
Just as an aside for future reference,
I'd rather Bardic Screams be more 'detrimental' versus 'aiding' in nature, if that makes any sense. Great guild interaction ideas though. Always liked the idea of trading certain screams and certain roars.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
I'd rather Bardic Screams be more 'detrimental' versus 'aiding' in nature, if that makes any sense. Great guild interaction ideas though. Always liked the idea of trading certain screams and certain roars.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
JUASON
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 08:37 AM CDT
Heh, I actually would think Bardic screams to be more like Battlecries. So each guild has a niche.
Barbarians - good roars, weak battlecries
Bards - weak roars, good battlecries
Battlecries are things that bonus allies and the screaming bard. If they are just penalities, then they might be going over global caps more than they already are with some abilities. Like Maelstrom/Resolve + Immobilize/Stun/DropStuff would just be wicked.
They'd still have some roar-like abilities if they wanted them. Much like Barbs have warcries if they want them. However, they'd not be quite as potent. Battlecries rock by the way if you use them right. However as a barb, the roars are more potent so they more often get picked.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Barbarians - good roars, weak battlecries
Bards - weak roars, good battlecries
Battlecries are things that bonus allies and the screaming bard. If they are just penalities, then they might be going over global caps more than they already are with some abilities. Like Maelstrom/Resolve + Immobilize/Stun/DropStuff would just be wicked.
They'd still have some roar-like abilities if they wanted them. Much like Barbs have warcries if they want them. However, they'd not be quite as potent. Battlecries rock by the way if you use them right. However as a barb, the roars are more potent so they more often get picked.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
TIKAMAE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 08:57 AM CDT
>>I'd prefer to resist everything as we are doing now and I've stated as such already. It's almost like those Bard players who want NO resistance to their enchantes. How balanced and non-selfish they are, thank you for proving my point. :)
I think most bards would like there to be less resistance if we are in a barbs group.
I think the resistance if bards are attacking barbs is just fine but if we are working with barbs the resistance can be really awkward to get around.
Also if the bard once overcomes the barbs MR at the begining of the song and then (while still in the barbs group) change rooms bards have to check barb resistance all over again. With ever room change bards have to fight the BMR. Dont you the initial check is enough?
I think it would be really fun to get some bards and barbs together to sing and roar at each other just to see for sure how each thing effects the other. I know I torture Gilvore with my singing all the time, hes such a dear about it too. He even fibs a little and tells me my songs are working:) But if anyone else would like to get together I think it would be great fun! It might be easier to figure out what needs fixed and what doesnt too.
~Swashbuckler Sasabee Sasiknak-Sneaksie, Songsmith of M'Riss, a Prydaen Bard
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
I think most bards would like there to be less resistance if we are in a barbs group.
I think the resistance if bards are attacking barbs is just fine but if we are working with barbs the resistance can be really awkward to get around.
Also if the bard once overcomes the barbs MR at the begining of the song and then (while still in the barbs group) change rooms bards have to check barb resistance all over again. With ever room change bards have to fight the BMR. Dont you the initial check is enough?
I think it would be really fun to get some bards and barbs together to sing and roar at each other just to see for sure how each thing effects the other. I know I torture Gilvore with my singing all the time, hes such a dear about it too. He even fibs a little and tells me my songs are working:) But if anyone else would like to get together I think it would be great fun! It might be easier to figure out what needs fixed and what doesnt too.
~Swashbuckler Sasabee Sasiknak-Sneaksie, Songsmith of M'Riss, a Prydaen Bard
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
TIKAMAE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 09:50 AM CDT
alright Ternith your post is making me crazy!
curiosity killed the cat and all that
what song is she singing? what mana?
come roar at me!!! I wanna be all powerful and resist you too! and what bardess is bigger then you!?!?
I so love your roars!!!
~Swashbuckler Sasabee
>>R>roar wail
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Xxxxxx appears frozen with fear!
A passerby watches the goings-on, then heads off, yelling for the Langa Mihman to arrest Ternith for disturbing the peace!
"The crazed Barbarian Ternith is frothing at the mouth! He looks hungry!" he cries, his voice quaking with terror.
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
curiosity killed the cat and all that
what song is she singing? what mana?
come roar at me!!! I wanna be all powerful and resist you too! and what bardess is bigger then you!?!?
I so love your roars!!!
~Swashbuckler Sasabee
>>R>roar wail
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Xxxxxx appears frozen with fear!
A passerby watches the goings-on, then heads off, yelling for the Langa Mihman to arrest Ternith for disturbing the peace!
"The crazed Barbarian Ternith is frothing at the mouth! He looks hungry!" he cries, his voice quaking with terror.
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
BEVERAGEK
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 11:03 AM CDT
>>Heh, I actually would think Bardic screams to be more like Battlecries. So each guild has a niche.
<<
Barbarian Roars/Battlecries are not sound based, but rather trigger emotion and the like based upon conditions and mentality. In contrast Bardic Screams are and should be, in my opinion, sound based attacks. I do not think screams should be rallying abilities, but rather should be very destructive in nature.
Just my two cents about that.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
<<
Barbarian Roars/Battlecries are not sound based, but rather trigger emotion and the like based upon conditions and mentality. In contrast Bardic Screams are and should be, in my opinion, sound based attacks. I do not think screams should be rallying abilities, but rather should be very destructive in nature.
Just my two cents about that.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
TIKAMAE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 01:43 PM CDT
Barbs can stop an enchante if it is played on an instrument, but we couldnt figure out how to stop my singing.
Gilvore seethes with bloodlust!
Growling like a dog latched onto a fresh kill, Gilvore's eyes dart about with the intensity of a ruthless predator!
>"Im drumming
You say, "Im drumming"
>
Gilvore's eyes and face set into a mask emphasizing his warpaint.
>
(You are performing the intro of Drums of the Snake.)
You feel yourself swaying to an internal beat that hums with the natural rhythm of nature itself as you perform "Drums of the Snake".
>
An intense roar springs forth from Gilvore's mouth, startling and unnerving in the extreme.
You feel so scared of Gilvore's roar that you drop a pair of copper zills.
>
You feel fully attuned to the mana streams again.
>
Gilvore lowers his head briefly before unleashing a roar hinting at a fatal following.
You are frozen with fear!
>gawk
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>song
You are playing the intro to Drums of the Snake on a pair of copper zills. The next part will be the verse.
[Use SONG HELP for more info.]
>
Gilvore says, "that should stop youy playing it"
>
You stop performing the Drums of the Snake enchante since you are no longer using the instrument you started with.
The rhythmic thrum flowing through your body lingers with a fading warmth like the last rays of the setting sun.
>gig
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>
Gilvore assesses his combat situation.
>"nicely done
You say, "nicely done"
>
The gentle rain patters down on a pair of copper zills sitting on the ground.
>grin
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>
Gilvore says, "not every one has weighted justice though"
>"I still cant move
gig
After moments where nothing filled your mind save fear, you finally shake off the debilitating effects of the roar of the Banshee's Wail.
>You say, "I still cant move"
>
You giggle.
>get zill
You pick up a pair of copper zills.
>grin
You grin.
>
Gilvore says, "so itd be a combo of justice and wail"
>
You no longer feel the pounding of a tribal pulse rushing through your veins.
>
Gilvore says, "but I have to berserk nightmare and use the warpaint to make it last that long"
~Sasabee
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
Gilvore seethes with bloodlust!
Growling like a dog latched onto a fresh kill, Gilvore's eyes dart about with the intensity of a ruthless predator!
>"Im drumming
You say, "Im drumming"
>
Gilvore's eyes and face set into a mask emphasizing his warpaint.
>
(You are performing the intro of Drums of the Snake.)
You feel yourself swaying to an internal beat that hums with the natural rhythm of nature itself as you perform "Drums of the Snake".
>
An intense roar springs forth from Gilvore's mouth, startling and unnerving in the extreme.
You feel so scared of Gilvore's roar that you drop a pair of copper zills.
>
You feel fully attuned to the mana streams again.
>
Gilvore lowers his head briefly before unleashing a roar hinting at a fatal following.
You are frozen with fear!
>gawk
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>song
You are playing the intro to Drums of the Snake on a pair of copper zills. The next part will be the verse.
[Use SONG HELP for more info.]
>
Gilvore says, "that should stop youy playing it"
>
You stop performing the Drums of the Snake enchante since you are no longer using the instrument you started with.
The rhythmic thrum flowing through your body lingers with a fading warmth like the last rays of the setting sun.
>gig
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>
Gilvore assesses his combat situation.
>"nicely done
You say, "nicely done"
>
The gentle rain patters down on a pair of copper zills sitting on the ground.
>grin
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
>
Gilvore says, "not every one has weighted justice though"
>"I still cant move
gig
After moments where nothing filled your mind save fear, you finally shake off the debilitating effects of the roar of the Banshee's Wail.
>You say, "I still cant move"
>
You giggle.
>get zill
You pick up a pair of copper zills.
>grin
You grin.
>
Gilvore says, "so itd be a combo of justice and wail"
>
You no longer feel the pounding of a tribal pulse rushing through your veins.
>
Gilvore says, "but I have to berserk nightmare and use the warpaint to make it last that long"
~Sasabee
~~Maybe instead of saying 'fog' everyone can say, "I suffered a small stroke, did anyone else?" Rayje
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/03/2006 01:45 PM CDT
>Barbarian Roars/Battlecries are not sound based, but rather trigger emotion and the like based upon conditions and mentality. In contrast Bardic Screams are and should be, in my opinion, sound based attacks. I do not think screams should be rallying abilities, but rather should be very destructive in nature.
I dont know.. If a Bard screamed evertime you killed one, that would get me all rallied up, but thats because I dont like it when they just die all quiet like.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
I dont know.. If a Bard screamed evertime you killed one, that would get me all rallied up, but thats because I dont like it when they just die all quiet like.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
BEEJAY19
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/04/2006 08:21 AM CDT
LOL. I agree fully, Rayje.
Player of Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
Player of Vinjince
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."
- Sima Yi
ODEC
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/05/2006 02:42 PM CDT
<<Barbarian Roars/Battlecries are not sound based, but rather trigger emotion and the like based upon conditions and mentality. In contrast Bardic Screams are and should be, in my opinion, sound based attacks. I do not think screams should be rallying abilities, but rather should be very destructive in nature.
I dont believe that Roars trigger conditions that effect mentality otherwise Psychic Shield would work against them. The spell description states that:
The Psychic Shield spell offers a defense against mental spells and attacks. It is weakened by each blow against the psyche it absorbs, but wears off gradually over time regardless.
It seems to me, that roars are attacks and are mentally based. The spell specifically states it should work against attacks that are not spells, though I would be hard pressed to name one that wasnt a spell. I've asked about this before but have never received a response from GM or anyone else.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
I dont believe that Roars trigger conditions that effect mentality otherwise Psychic Shield would work against them. The spell description states that:
The Psychic Shield spell offers a defense against mental spells and attacks. It is weakened by each blow against the psyche it absorbs, but wears off gradually over time regardless.
It seems to me, that roars are attacks and are mentally based. The spell specifically states it should work against attacks that are not spells, though I would be hard pressed to name one that wasnt a spell. I've asked about this before but have never received a response from GM or anyone else.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/05/2006 03:38 PM CDT
>I dont believe that Roars trigger conditions that effect mentality otherwise Psychic Shield would work against them. The spell description states that:
Think of it more as a sub-conscious instinct towards self-preservation (fear) than a mental attack.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
Think of it more as a sub-conscious instinct towards self-preservation (fear) than a mental attack.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
JUASON
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/05/2006 03:44 PM CDT
So how is Tingle a mental attacking spell again? It affects the central nervous system of course, but it is a physical attack not a mental one, and yet Psy Shield protects... protects against Thunderclap as well! Roar != Thunderclap?
I'm more inclined to believe Psy Shield only protects against magical-produced mental attacks. Roars therfore do not apply.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
I'm more inclined to believe Psy Shield only protects against magical-produced mental attacks. Roars therfore do not apply.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/05/2006 11:31 PM CDT
>So how is Tingle a mental attacking spell again? It affects the central nervous system of course, but it is a physical attack not a mental one, and yet Psy Shield protects... protects against Thunderclap as well! Roar != Thunderclap?
But the brain is the center of the nervous system. I'll give a cheesy reason instead. Psy shield protects against tingle and thunderclap because its magical electricity and magical thunder, which is kinda what you stated in the second half of your post, but I liked the cheesy explanation.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
But the brain is the center of the nervous system. I'll give a cheesy reason instead. Psy shield protects against tingle and thunderclap because its magical electricity and magical thunder, which is kinda what you stated in the second half of your post, but I liked the cheesy explanation.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
ODEC
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 01:00 AM CDT
<<Think of it more as a sub-conscious instinct towards self-preservation (fear) than a mental attack.
I dont think I have ever witnessed anyone yell so loud that it made me or the entire room stand around in a daze. To me it sounds way too much like ... magic.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
I dont think I have ever witnessed anyone yell so loud that it made me or the entire room stand around in a daze. To me it sounds way too much like ... magic.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 01:08 AM CDT
>I dont think I have ever witnessed anyone yell so loud that it made me or the entire room stand around in a daze. To me it sounds way too much like ... magic.
And if you get right down to it, so do dances, berserks, khri, and many other non-magical abilities. But you see, magic is clearly defined in DR, it's a science even, the manipulation of mana streams, and these abilities are not magical. They are however supernatural, for you see, we live in a lovely fantasy world.
If we couldn't do anything beyond what a mere real life human could do without magic, then well, there wouldn't be much point in being a non-magic using guild, would there?
Dragoonseal
And if you get right down to it, so do dances, berserks, khri, and many other non-magical abilities. But you see, magic is clearly defined in DR, it's a science even, the manipulation of mana streams, and these abilities are not magical. They are however supernatural, for you see, we live in a lovely fantasy world.
If we couldn't do anything beyond what a mere real life human could do without magic, then well, there wouldn't be much point in being a non-magic using guild, would there?
Dragoonseal
BEVERAGEK
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 07:43 AM CDT
Barbarians and Thieves just use chakra, didn't you know? They don't consider it magic though.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
The one who is obsessed with power.. and who still has a long way to go.
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 09:29 AM CDT
>I dont think I have ever witnessed anyone yell so loud that it made me or the entire room stand around in a daze. To me it sounds way too much like ... magic.
Its not so much sound, but intimidation. For example, meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan roars and you pick up the soap. Its that easy.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
Its not so much sound, but intimidation. For example, meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan roars and you pick up the soap. Its that easy.
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
ODEC
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 02:53 PM CDT
<<Its not so much sound, but intimidation. For example, meet your new cell mate Nathan Jones. Nathan wants you to pick up the soap, but you hesitate. Nathan roars and you pick up the soap. Its that easy.
That is why you shank Nathan when you first get to the cell and he mentions the soap.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
That is why you shank Nathan when you first get to the cell and he mentions the soap.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
RAYJE
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 04:03 PM CDT
>That is why you shank Nathan when you first get to the cell and he mentions the soap.
And then you wake up from your dream with your face in the pillow... ;)
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
And then you wake up from your dream with your face in the pillow... ;)
90% of DragonRealms is mental. The other half is typing.
-(a misquoted) Yogi
HELLCAT
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 05:11 PM CDT
>And then you wake up from your dream with your face in the pillow... ;)
Been there done that?
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
Been there done that?
___
I know that I will die in battle, this I have accepted. I hope that it will be one of my own choosing, but if not do not bury me in a small, sad little cemetary. Burn me and spread my ashes to a strong western wind that I might make my way home.
ODEC
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 09:30 PM CDT
<<And then you wake up from your dream with your face in the pillow... ;)
Maybe in your dream, but I have found that some barbarians are kind of strange .... or different. Everything I have heard of prison is that ... there is respect or wearing red kool-aid on your lips. So, I would take my beating each time they came for me so that eventually they will just go after someone else who doesnt or wont fight. And no, I havent spent any time in prison, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
Maybe in your dream, but I have found that some barbarians are kind of strange .... or different. Everything I have heard of prison is that ... there is respect or wearing red kool-aid on your lips. So, I would take my beating each time they came for me so that eventually they will just go after someone else who doesnt or wont fight. And no, I havent spent any time in prison, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
Shadowmancer Stolas, Darkling of the Progeny
"Life is short and the Art long." -- Hippocrates
DWARB-POWER
Re: Barbs, Bards, BMR and Enchantes
09/06/2006 09:56 PM CDT
<<And no, I havent spent any time in prison, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.>>
That's the spirit, make your parents proud.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
That's the spirit, make your parents proud.
- Simon
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html
"The problem with common sense, is that it is not so common."
