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>>I'm a bit confused as to the difference in the quality of the role-play environment between 1) an at-keyboard person running a script and being unresponsive to every element of the game environment except script checks and 2) an afk scripter who is obviously also going to be unresponsive.
The player at the keyboard disinterested in engaging with you is actively choosing to do so, and isn't a guaranteed response. Reducing/removing AFK scripters is also an incremental move toward a more responsive environment, as well.
Along with this, having diminishing returns as you script away over time can encourage people to eventually go "You know what, I'm no longer getting blood form this stone, maybe I'll do something else". That something else might be logging out because they're done getting exp for the day (removing the number of inattentive players), or, more hopefully, encouraging them to be more interactive with players (transitioning them into the kind of player the game hopes they become).
There's also the issue that many players feel they have to script nonstop and never take in the sights/sounds of the game in order to keep up with the rat race of the game itself. Hopefully this reduces the need to feel like they're always in that kind of rat race, because they can play "catch up" at a faster pace, and they're actively discouraged from effectively "catching up" past a certain point. Along with that, they're aware that other players aren't able to effective "catch up" past a certain point, so they can be put at ease over the competitive aspect, as well. Think of it as grinding's version of nuclear disarmament.
>>Not sure what I'm missing here. AFK scripting equals unresponsiveness is an odd argument to me if unresponsiveness is not equal to AFK scripting.
I'm pro "be polite enough to send someone an OOC message saying you're not interested in roleplaying," but until that becomes a forced policy, it isn't going to happen 100% of the time. I also think people are overselling how disinclined they are to engage with people even though they're "only here to script." I feel it's a small minority that are that hands off with engaging with anyone and not giving the courtesy of a nod or hello.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Question
03/15/2018 03:33 PM CDT
>Reducing/removing AFK scripters is also an incremental move toward a more responsive environment, as well.
This keeps getting said as fact, but I don't think it is. To repeat the point, I know >0 people who 24/7 script, AND are willing to step away from those 24/7 scripts to come and RP. If you removed those people from the game, the 'number of people who come and RP' goes down.
>There's also the issue that many players feel they have to script nonstop and never take in the sights/sounds of the game in order to keep up with the rat race of the game itself.
This is huge, I think. I really like RP events, but after an hour or so of sitting around play acting, I start looking at that nearly empty or empty Field XP window.
>I also think people are overselling how disinclined they are to engage with people even though they're "only here to script." I feel it's a small minority that are that hands off with engaging with anyone and not giving the courtesy of a nod or hello.
I'd agree here - a number of people who are only really interested in the numbers game are fairly active members of the community in other forms.
EYESOFNIGHT
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/15/2018 03:53 PM CDT
>>Not sure what I'm missing here. AFK scripting equals unresponsiveness is an odd argument to me if unresponsiveness is not equal to AFK scripting.
If someone was at the keyboard and attentive to the environment, at least they'd have the option of being responsive, and perhaps would react more than they might be inclined to think.
By keeping AFK scripting against policy, the GMs have created the minimum requirements for the possibility of roleplaying. Not everyone who plays DR needs to RP, but imagine, for a moment, that AFK scripting were not against policy. Does anyone really think Prime would look much different from The Fallen after a while? Why would anyone not AFK script? Even though I don't enjoy AFK scripting, and am content to advance in the game at a relatively slow pace, I certainly would script 24/7 if there were no reason not to, as I'm sure almost everyone would... for about a month, before the environment was so boring, so dull and repetitive, that I would quit.
When you read all of the arguments for allowing AFK scripting, they generally fall under the following two categories:
1. People who only like scripting, and don't like roleplaying, but who refuse to join TF.
2. People who are roleplayers, but who want to AFK script because they're so big, they don't feel they can advance otherwise.
While I'm sympathetic to people in the second category, I think most of people who make argument in first category are utterly disingenuous, or don't perceive the implications of what they're asking. When you read all of the complaints together, including those on reddit, the main arguments the AFK advocates make is that they don't want to be "isolated" from the larger population in Prime. Why not? Why wouldn't all of the people who are upset with Prime try TF for a while (and if it's the PvP open problem, why not ask for a fix to that)?
I honestly think it's because, even if a person doesn't enjoy roleplaying, there is something positive about being in a world populated by more than just bots and people chatting OOC. There is something interesting about the Mur cleric praying by the altar outside Riverhaven, or the gwethed taunts of a necromancer to the defenders of the temple. When all that's stripped away, and it's just bots botting, maybe the occasional meet up to mash those bots in PvP, the game becomes empty and meaningless. Every single person could install lich and bot skills, and every opportunity to RP would be weighed against the trouble of interrupting one's scripting routine.
None of that is a good direction for the game. Even the people that love AFKing 24/7 would hate an environment where everyone was allowed (and therefore encouraged) to do so. What people really enjoyed was the feeling of gaining on other people by cheating, or, at the very least, watching the numbers go up on a character that at least had the possibility of being integrated into a meaningful world.
There are many accounts of people who slowly increased the amount of time they'd AFK script as they weren't caught, and now they're bitter that they must adapt to the policy that has always been in place, though perhaps not well enforced. I am sorry to see people angry at getting caught, and perhaps leaving the game. I don't think anybody wants that, and I hope that, in time, good memories will bring them back, willing to abide by the policies if they choose to play in Prime. But allowing AFK scripting is really not the answer, and I'm very happy that the GMs who love this game are preserving its integrity by enforcing the policy.
If someone was at the keyboard and attentive to the environment, at least they'd have the option of being responsive, and perhaps would react more than they might be inclined to think.
By keeping AFK scripting against policy, the GMs have created the minimum requirements for the possibility of roleplaying. Not everyone who plays DR needs to RP, but imagine, for a moment, that AFK scripting were not against policy. Does anyone really think Prime would look much different from The Fallen after a while? Why would anyone not AFK script? Even though I don't enjoy AFK scripting, and am content to advance in the game at a relatively slow pace, I certainly would script 24/7 if there were no reason not to, as I'm sure almost everyone would... for about a month, before the environment was so boring, so dull and repetitive, that I would quit.
When you read all of the arguments for allowing AFK scripting, they generally fall under the following two categories:
1. People who only like scripting, and don't like roleplaying, but who refuse to join TF.
2. People who are roleplayers, but who want to AFK script because they're so big, they don't feel they can advance otherwise.
While I'm sympathetic to people in the second category, I think most of people who make argument in first category are utterly disingenuous, or don't perceive the implications of what they're asking. When you read all of the complaints together, including those on reddit, the main arguments the AFK advocates make is that they don't want to be "isolated" from the larger population in Prime. Why not? Why wouldn't all of the people who are upset with Prime try TF for a while (and if it's the PvP open problem, why not ask for a fix to that)?
I honestly think it's because, even if a person doesn't enjoy roleplaying, there is something positive about being in a world populated by more than just bots and people chatting OOC. There is something interesting about the Mur cleric praying by the altar outside Riverhaven, or the gwethed taunts of a necromancer to the defenders of the temple. When all that's stripped away, and it's just bots botting, maybe the occasional meet up to mash those bots in PvP, the game becomes empty and meaningless. Every single person could install lich and bot skills, and every opportunity to RP would be weighed against the trouble of interrupting one's scripting routine.
None of that is a good direction for the game. Even the people that love AFKing 24/7 would hate an environment where everyone was allowed (and therefore encouraged) to do so. What people really enjoyed was the feeling of gaining on other people by cheating, or, at the very least, watching the numbers go up on a character that at least had the possibility of being integrated into a meaningful world.
There are many accounts of people who slowly increased the amount of time they'd AFK script as they weren't caught, and now they're bitter that they must adapt to the policy that has always been in place, though perhaps not well enforced. I am sorry to see people angry at getting caught, and perhaps leaving the game. I don't think anybody wants that, and I hope that, in time, good memories will bring them back, willing to abide by the policies if they choose to play in Prime. But allowing AFK scripting is really not the answer, and I'm very happy that the GMs who love this game are preserving its integrity by enforcing the policy.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Question
03/15/2018 03:57 PM CDT
>>This keeps getting said as fact, but I don't think it is. To repeat the point, I know >0 people who 24/7 script, AND are willing to step away from those 24/7 scripts to come and RP. If you removed those people from the game, the 'number of people who come and RP' goes down.
As I mentioned a few times in this thread, this is one part of an incremental shift toward an end goal. I'm not saying "do this and problem solved," I'm saying "do this as part of the way of addressing the problem."
I'm not shocked that you know people who would also step away from 24/7 script to engage in roleplay events. "Have more roleplay events available!" is also a great step toward changing the game's culture.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
As I mentioned a few times in this thread, this is one part of an incremental shift toward an end goal. I'm not saying "do this and problem solved," I'm saying "do this as part of the way of addressing the problem."
I'm not shocked that you know people who would also step away from 24/7 script to engage in roleplay events. "Have more roleplay events available!" is also a great step toward changing the game's culture.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DREAMIGINE
Re: Question
03/15/2018 05:48 PM CDT
I REALLY like the idea of moving to a "bits" based daily drain bonus. What I like is two-fold:
1) This creates a specific incentive for me to log on each and every day for a small amount of time. My experience has been that when I interact with DR more regularly I'm more likely to notice that there is a cool RP event coming up on the calendar or just bump into familiar names and have a brief interaction. That makes me more likely to log on again later. That said, life gets in the way, I miss some events, and with no particular reason to log on now vs later, I'm often busy enough to prefer later. Which eventually becomes never until I remember how much I like DR and the cycle begins again. I recently played an on-line card game that had a daily prize for your first win - I was surprised by how effective a motivator that was.
2) I would really like to both see that people who play casually (this is probably the camp I fall into most of the time) be able to advance more steadily while also giving people who play dedicatedly some real advantage. You spend the huge number of hours to play, there should be some reasonable reward for that. I think a system of diminishing returns could balance that nicely - there will be some advantages for playing large numbers of hours. Simultaneously, people who play systematically for 30 minutes to an hour a day would see more steady progress.
My only suggestions/thoughts are:
A) I agree that it seems like a bit-based bonus is preferable to a time-based bonus. I really don't want to make yet another system that has to be very actively min-maxed. As was previously pointed out, using the time-based drain bonus means there is a real premium on how many skills you can train simultaneously. At least for me, it is not particularly interesting or fun to figure out how to mash learning as many skill as possible into a single hour. The bit system has a real elegance of working well for a player that just keeps doing what they were doing already.
B) I would suggest that the first 'tier' of EXP drain should be a substantially larger bonus and it should require a modest player no more than 1 hour (preferably 30 minutes) to use up. This would create an incentive to interact at least briefly every day. My concern with a longer timeframe is that if it takes 2 hours to use up the first big bonus then for those of us who rarely train more than 2 hours at a time this fails to achieve point 1 above.
1) This creates a specific incentive for me to log on each and every day for a small amount of time. My experience has been that when I interact with DR more regularly I'm more likely to notice that there is a cool RP event coming up on the calendar or just bump into familiar names and have a brief interaction. That makes me more likely to log on again later. That said, life gets in the way, I miss some events, and with no particular reason to log on now vs later, I'm often busy enough to prefer later. Which eventually becomes never until I remember how much I like DR and the cycle begins again. I recently played an on-line card game that had a daily prize for your first win - I was surprised by how effective a motivator that was.
2) I would really like to both see that people who play casually (this is probably the camp I fall into most of the time) be able to advance more steadily while also giving people who play dedicatedly some real advantage. You spend the huge number of hours to play, there should be some reasonable reward for that. I think a system of diminishing returns could balance that nicely - there will be some advantages for playing large numbers of hours. Simultaneously, people who play systematically for 30 minutes to an hour a day would see more steady progress.
My only suggestions/thoughts are:
A) I agree that it seems like a bit-based bonus is preferable to a time-based bonus. I really don't want to make yet another system that has to be very actively min-maxed. As was previously pointed out, using the time-based drain bonus means there is a real premium on how many skills you can train simultaneously. At least for me, it is not particularly interesting or fun to figure out how to mash learning as many skill as possible into a single hour. The bit system has a real elegance of working well for a player that just keeps doing what they were doing already.
B) I would suggest that the first 'tier' of EXP drain should be a substantially larger bonus and it should require a modest player no more than 1 hour (preferably 30 minutes) to use up. This would create an incentive to interact at least briefly every day. My concern with a longer timeframe is that if it takes 2 hours to use up the first big bonus then for those of us who rarely train more than 2 hours at a time this fails to achieve point 1 above.
ADUCHNOW1
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/15/2018 08:47 PM CDT
>Why would anyone not AFK script?
This is fair. I certainly would invest more energy in trying to figure out scripts and would leave DR on all night running trading routes if I could.
I think you could make the counterpoint, though, which is if I have the option to leave a script running all night, then when I was at the keyboard, I would be more focused on being immersed in the game. Max I can probably play 2 hours at a time, and not every day. I want my character to be able to embroider stuff but who wants crappy product, and also I need to get another 5 circles so I can add another table to my shop. Right now, my 2 hours is spent tediously braiding grass to get mechanical lore up because I need that for embroidery and hunting to get light armor up because that's always the thing holding me back.
If, instead, I could AFK script while I'm sleeping and rock through those mechanical lore requirements then I would love that. Then I would spend my 2 hours of game time trying to find other stuff to do because I wouldn't need to invest it in skill progression.
Now, I see the argument around if that were to be the play style, why force me to AFK script while I'm asleep, why not just make skill progression easier so I could get there faster?
So I get the counter point to that, which is, "I already braided all that grass and then if everyone can do awesome embroidery then my character is not special after all that work." Totally get that, too, despite the fact that this sounds similar to the justification for hazing.
If it took me a few weeks or months to try everything the game had to offer in terms of crafting systems, skills, hunting, etc... would I just roleplay all the time on a level playing field? I think no, because part of the reason I train is because I want to make my character unique to enhance my roleplay. If everyone can do everything my character isn't going to be unique.
So, then, if skills don't make me unique, then it must be class or race restrictions that make me unique. Only barbarians can craft plate armor, so, if I want a plate mask I need to find a barbarian. I personally don't want class restricted roleplay, I like the opportunity to mix and match within the skill based system. But, to protect my uniqueness, I want things to be hard to get to so once I get it my advantage is hard to replicate.
With all of this said, I think I now understand why this argument seems to circle around. After all of the above thinking, I chose to play DR within the context of the current system, and I still play it. I vote to keep it the way it is, though perhaps there can be some "right to play" systems in which advancement could happen more quickly. Things that create a lot of uniqueness or player value (like crafting) should take a long time to build. Perhaps the variety of skill requirements to circle could be reduced. Maybe I suck at the game, but, why am I constantly droning through a 3rd survival and an armor when I play a Trader? I get Trading, Appraisal, a lore or two, and maybe a survival. Why force an urban Trader with a shop to have a bunch of survivals. That's part of the grind. The second part is I feel that I read a lot about people training everything because of TDPs, like, walking around wearing a patchwork of armors. Perhaps if TDPs were only awarded (and at a greater rate) for core skills for the class that would reduce the incentive to train everything and to walk around playing some zills unless you really want Performance for another reason.
This is fair. I certainly would invest more energy in trying to figure out scripts and would leave DR on all night running trading routes if I could.
I think you could make the counterpoint, though, which is if I have the option to leave a script running all night, then when I was at the keyboard, I would be more focused on being immersed in the game. Max I can probably play 2 hours at a time, and not every day. I want my character to be able to embroider stuff but who wants crappy product, and also I need to get another 5 circles so I can add another table to my shop. Right now, my 2 hours is spent tediously braiding grass to get mechanical lore up because I need that for embroidery and hunting to get light armor up because that's always the thing holding me back.
If, instead, I could AFK script while I'm sleeping and rock through those mechanical lore requirements then I would love that. Then I would spend my 2 hours of game time trying to find other stuff to do because I wouldn't need to invest it in skill progression.
Now, I see the argument around if that were to be the play style, why force me to AFK script while I'm asleep, why not just make skill progression easier so I could get there faster?
So I get the counter point to that, which is, "I already braided all that grass and then if everyone can do awesome embroidery then my character is not special after all that work." Totally get that, too, despite the fact that this sounds similar to the justification for hazing.
If it took me a few weeks or months to try everything the game had to offer in terms of crafting systems, skills, hunting, etc... would I just roleplay all the time on a level playing field? I think no, because part of the reason I train is because I want to make my character unique to enhance my roleplay. If everyone can do everything my character isn't going to be unique.
So, then, if skills don't make me unique, then it must be class or race restrictions that make me unique. Only barbarians can craft plate armor, so, if I want a plate mask I need to find a barbarian. I personally don't want class restricted roleplay, I like the opportunity to mix and match within the skill based system. But, to protect my uniqueness, I want things to be hard to get to so once I get it my advantage is hard to replicate.
With all of this said, I think I now understand why this argument seems to circle around. After all of the above thinking, I chose to play DR within the context of the current system, and I still play it. I vote to keep it the way it is, though perhaps there can be some "right to play" systems in which advancement could happen more quickly. Things that create a lot of uniqueness or player value (like crafting) should take a long time to build. Perhaps the variety of skill requirements to circle could be reduced. Maybe I suck at the game, but, why am I constantly droning through a 3rd survival and an armor when I play a Trader? I get Trading, Appraisal, a lore or two, and maybe a survival. Why force an urban Trader with a shop to have a bunch of survivals. That's part of the grind. The second part is I feel that I read a lot about people training everything because of TDPs, like, walking around wearing a patchwork of armors. Perhaps if TDPs were only awarded (and at a greater rate) for core skills for the class that would reduce the incentive to train everything and to walk around playing some zills unless you really want Performance for another reason.
JTIZEL4SHO
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 01:17 AM CDT
I'm away from the keyboard for atleast 8 hours out the day isn't everyone else? Im still logged in but I am dang sure afk. What is wrong with being afk if your not breaking policy.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right... "
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right... "
JTIZEL4SHO
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 01:22 AM CDT
sorry for the double post but I felt the need to add I script out my afk. That is an important message. .afk.cmd
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right... "
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right... "
JULIAN
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 07:26 AM CDT
>>This keeps getting said as fact, but I don't think it is. To repeat the point, I know >0 people who 24/7 script, AND are willing to step away from those 24/7 scripts to come and RP. If you removed those people from the game, the 'number of people who come and RP' goes down.<<
A part of the problem with AFKing, even if you're down for roleplay too, is that you never even hear about a bunch of things you would theoretically be interested in.
If you're AFK and some ad-hoc RP is going down, obviously, you're not going to be there. You won't hear people talking about things to know to be in a place at a time. You're more than likely not on anybody's radar as someone to get pulled into whatever you might be interested in because you're not interacting with them day to day. In a dozen different ways you're not engaging with the game even if you theoretically are open to it. Then it feels like nothing is going on so you think "Why bother?" and pay even less attention.
Mazrian
A part of the problem with AFKing, even if you're down for roleplay too, is that you never even hear about a bunch of things you would theoretically be interested in.
If you're AFK and some ad-hoc RP is going down, obviously, you're not going to be there. You won't hear people talking about things to know to be in a place at a time. You're more than likely not on anybody's radar as someone to get pulled into whatever you might be interested in because you're not interacting with them day to day. In a dozen different ways you're not engaging with the game even if you theoretically are open to it. Then it feels like nothing is going on so you think "Why bother?" and pay even less attention.
Mazrian
DR-PERSIDA
Re: Question **POSTS HIDDEN and FINAL NUDGE**
03/16/2018 09:11 AM CDT
Several more posts were hidden as they contained conflicts content and this is not a conflicts folder.
If you want to comment about other posters themselves, that sort of post goes here: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/Conflicts%20-%20Strictly%20Out%20of%20Character/view
If you don't want this thread to have to be closed because of continued TAC violations going on in it, please keep on topic, which is AFK scripting policy and only AFK scripting policy. Not other posters, not RL situations, not anything else but AFK scripting policy in DragonRealms.
This is the absolutely final nudge this thread is going to be given, as we've already given everyone here a lot of leeway in order to try to preserve what we know is an important and high-interest discussion. We can't give that leeway indefinitely, though, guys. You have to do your part and post in accordance to the TAC, or we're required to close the thread.
-Persida
If you want to comment about other posters themselves, that sort of post goes here: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/Conflicts%20-%20Strictly%20Out%20of%20Character/view
If you don't want this thread to have to be closed because of continued TAC violations going on in it, please keep on topic, which is AFK scripting policy and only AFK scripting policy. Not other posters, not RL situations, not anything else but AFK scripting policy in DragonRealms.
This is the absolutely final nudge this thread is going to be given, as we've already given everyone here a lot of leeway in order to try to preserve what we know is an important and high-interest discussion. We can't give that leeway indefinitely, though, guys. You have to do your part and post in accordance to the TAC, or we're required to close the thread.
-Persida
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 10:36 AM CDT
>A part of the problem with AFKing, even if you're down for roleplay too, is that you never even hear about a bunch of things you would theoretically be interested in.
I really disagree with you on this! I've nudged friends who are definitely AFK via Discord or whatnot, and had them engage. I've also gotten nudges via Discord or whatnot and changed plans around so I could come log in and participate. At this point, for a lot of us, I think the majority of our interactions about the game happen outside the game. I don't think that's new - AIM chat groups have been a thing as long as the game has (RIP AIM), but now I think the Discord has the largest collection of players in one place other than the game itself, and I already had Discord on my phone for other things.
My point, to be clear, isn't to justify AFK scripting, but to point out that AFK scripters can quickly become 'participating characters'. Players who quit, cannot/will not. Even shifting this a little away from pointing specifically to AFK scripters, I think the number of players who are nominally ATK, by, say, doing chores around the house or eating dinner or sitting on the sofa with maybe half an eye on a laptop, probably have triggers set up to notify them of various things, including and certainly not limited to, getting a private gweth, or maybe their guild channel going off, etc.
I guess I'm trying to really emphasize/underline that 'AFK scripting' is not a singular 'thing' or activity. It's a potentially pretty wide ranging breadth of 'ways to interact with the game'.
SASSERSASS
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 10:57 AM CDT
It's not a matter of different play styles. You can choose to be RP none and script heavily and those are both legitimate play styles - as long as you are responsive to the game environment. Harassing other players and running 24/7 scripts are both against the rules and, in my opinion, should not be accepted. Somebody who is a habitual griefer does not become acceptable because he or she also participates in events sometimes or is active on Discord. Likewise, participating in other aspects of the game legitimately does not negate the time that was spent breaking policy by scripting afk. Choosing to only obey policy sometimes when you feel like it is not an acceptable, alternate play style. If I start scripting over night or while I'm at school and I get caught, I will deserve the penalties regardless of any previous good I've done for the game or how active I am in the community.
I'd rather have less players over all if it means the people who are playing are doing so in good faith, both in following the rules and in being considerate to one another as players.
I'd rather have less players over all if it means the people who are playing are doing so in good faith, both in following the rules and in being considerate to one another as players.
RIGHTEOUSFURY
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 11:02 AM CDT
>>I'd rather have less players over all
While this might be good for you, it isn't good for overall population perception, or the income of the game itself, which allows it to continue running and to pay staff (the little that they get). This is just a general guess, but I feel like if you were to get rid of every player that ever broke the afk rules (more than 5 minutes outside the ability to respond if you were checked) we would lose easily 75% of the community.
ADUCHNOW1
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 12:36 PM CDT
>A part of the problem with AFKing, even if you're down for roleplay too, is that you never even hear about a bunch of things you would theoretically be interested in.
But this comment aligns with why I laid out the logic that I did in my previous post.
This is the argument that, if I can paraphrase, "people who are AFK scripting are AFK because they aren't required to be, therefore, strictly enforcing AFK policy will draw them back to their keyboard and lead to more roleplay." This implies that a strict AFK-scripting policy will, if properly and consistently enforced, lead to more roleplay.
Two potential counter-arguments:
1. Players are at-key board for the maximum time allowed by their schedules, and therefore they would be offline if they were not AFK
2. The players that are AFK scripting will just sit near their screen and check every 5 minutes and still not take advantage of roleplay opportunities because they are most interested in "the numbers game"
To me, these counter-arguments hold a ton of weight, and changing the AFK-scripting policy as a means of enforcing or incenting roleplay in a game environment that does not REQUIRE roleplay (only responsiveness) won't work. If someone is at the keyboard scripting, the way to make them more prone to roleplay has nothing to do with this policy. I do not think the game environment in Prime should REQUIRE roleplay interactions.
If the point is that AFK scripters create bots that degrade the game environment, then to me this is potentially valid. If I could see 100 people in game, but only 10 will interact with me and 90 will not (half due to being AFK and half being due to RP:none) - or whatever proportion - then the decision must be made as to whether or not it is better for me to only see 10 people (currently offered by Platinum), 55 people (currently offered by Prime), or 100 people (currently offered by The Fallen), then I would suggest that keeping and enforcing the current Prime AFK scripting policy is the right answer, because all situations are available to me as a customer. So, I think this is already accounted for and I see no reason to change policies.
If the point is that the benefit to AFK scripting or even ATK scripting is too great because skill progression is too slow, then that is an entirely different set of arguments that have nothing to do with the roleplay environment and it should be focused on the question of: if a player must be at their keyboard, and plays a certain number of hours, and wants to get to a certain skill set, and roleplaying takes away from skill progression, then what proportion of time is ideal for a player to spend doing each of those things.
Either players have limited time (therefore skill progression even at a reasonable pace is going to kill any chance at roleplay unless they resign themselves to be a low level character nearly forever)
Or, players have a moderate amount of time (and can probably be better balanced)
Or, players have an extraordinary amount of time or have played the game forever (then they can be a high level character and probably enjoy role play, too)
I've seen no actual data on how much time the average character spends logged into the game, which customers are most profitable, or which of these three the game is being designed for, to draw any conclusions as to whether or not the game is achieving the balance desired. I will say that, being a person with limited time, I fully recognize that if I want to have a high level character and the only way to achieve that is through AFK scripting, then I should do that in Fallen.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 01:28 PM CDT
>>This implies that a strict AFK-scripting policy will, if properly and consistently enforced, lead to more roleplay.
This is incorrect.
A more proactively enforced AFK scripting policy, in addition to other means, pushes the game's culture toward a general mindset that players should engage with the game in a certain manner. It also gives newer players, based on how they see current players playing the game, a different impression of how they should play the game, which in turn pushes the game's culture toward a specific mindset even more.
Anyone who believes a more proactively enforced AFK scripting policy will, single-handedly, change a game's culture is unfortunately wrong, just like anyone who believes putting speed bumps on roads will single-handedly stop people from speeding. Instead, speed bumps are added alongside more stop lights, traffic cameras, higher fines, adjustments to driving tests, and more.
"Enforce the AFK scripting policy" is one step. "Adjust how exp functions in the game to discourage the situations that encourage afk scripting" is another. "Increase roleplay opportunities for players so they have more to do than train" is another. Etc etc etc. All these actions move the needle.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This is incorrect.
A more proactively enforced AFK scripting policy, in addition to other means, pushes the game's culture toward a general mindset that players should engage with the game in a certain manner. It also gives newer players, based on how they see current players playing the game, a different impression of how they should play the game, which in turn pushes the game's culture toward a specific mindset even more.
Anyone who believes a more proactively enforced AFK scripting policy will, single-handedly, change a game's culture is unfortunately wrong, just like anyone who believes putting speed bumps on roads will single-handedly stop people from speeding. Instead, speed bumps are added alongside more stop lights, traffic cameras, higher fines, adjustments to driving tests, and more.
"Enforce the AFK scripting policy" is one step. "Adjust how exp functions in the game to discourage the situations that encourage afk scripting" is another. "Increase roleplay opportunities for players so they have more to do than train" is another. Etc etc etc. All these actions move the needle.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ADUCHNOW1
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 03:41 PM CDT
>"Enforce the AFK scripting policy" is one step. "Adjust how exp functions in the game to discourage the situations that encourage afk scripting" is another. "Increase roleplay opportunities for players so they have more to do than train" is another. Etc etc etc. All these actions move the needle.
I entirely agree.
GODKING
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 06:56 PM CDT
How experiance functions is a basic characteristic of the game. It's part of what makes Dragonrealms Dragonrealms. It's one of the main reasons that I play the game. To change it would be like changing milk to cottage cheese, if you go in to buy milk you expect milk no matter how much everyone tells you how wonderful cottage cheese is.
Just play. Have fun. Enjoy the game. Michael Jordan
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/game
Just play. Have fun. Enjoy the game. Michael Jordan
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/game
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 07:19 PM CDT
>How experiance functions is a basic characteristic of the game. It's part of what makes Dragonrealms Dragonrealms. It's one of the main reasons that I play the game. To change it would be like changing milk to cottage cheese, if you go in to buy milk you expect milk no matter how much everyone tells you how wonderful cottage cheese is.
They've rewritten the experience system twice now.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
They've rewritten the experience system twice now.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
RIGHTEOUSFURY
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/16/2018 07:22 PM CDT
>>They've rewritten the experience system twice now.
Also, if the experience system is milk, then either the vast majority of the player base and staff have grown lactose intolerant, or that mess has spoiled.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/17/2018 06:22 AM CDT
And being willing to change and update systems to reflect how the game has evolved is a good thing. A lot of the hesitancy I think people have is rooted in fear if change despite preferring what they get to try it and evaluate things rationally.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/17/2018 04:28 PM CDT
>>How experiance functions is a basic characteristic of the game. It's part of what makes Dragonrealms Dragonrealms. It's one of the main reasons that I play the game. To change it would be like changing milk to cottage cheese, if you go in to buy milk you expect milk no matter how much everyone tells you how wonderful cottage cheese is.
As others have said, the system has been adjusted multiple times. Otherwise, we'd all be juggling how wall ranks work while frozen and tired but alert.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
As others have said, the system has been adjusted multiple times. Otherwise, we'd all be juggling how wall ranks work while frozen and tired but alert.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/17/2018 06:55 PM CDT
>The game is dieing post has been mentioned so many times. Enough chicken littles.
Agreed, this is why I think it'd be really great to hear what ideas are being kicked around behind the scenes to address some of these issues. I'd like to think at least the majority of the playerbase is adult enough to move past or ignore the chicken littling, and continue having constructive conversations with staff about ways to improve game systems.
DR-HELJE
Re: Question **NUDGE and POST HIDDEN**
03/17/2018 08:09 PM CDT
Technically this is a new thread, but it refers to the old thread, and then we weaved it into the old thread, so to be fair I'm going to give one more final, final warning cause we are progressing the subject.
Again, please don't comment about other posters. As Persida said, that belongs in http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/Conflicts%20-%20Strictly%20Out%20of%20Character/view.
Also please keep the discussion in this one thread. Just changing the topic title doesn't automatically make it a new discussion.
Thank you,
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
Again, please don't comment about other posters. As Persida said, that belongs in http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Social%20Side%20of%20DragonRealms/Conflicts%20-%20Strictly%20Out%20of%20Character/view.
Also please keep the discussion in this one thread. Just changing the topic title doesn't automatically make it a new discussion.
Thank you,
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
