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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 10:56 AM CST
>>There's no requirement to leave the game when draining

...yeah, because it's not viewed as a benefit. If it was viewed as a benefit, being AFK and draining would pretty much require you to leave the game.

Kinda the point of the discussion: that what counts as a benefit and doesn't count as a benefit comes off as a bit weird at times.

>>Personally I love being able to idle drain. I really hope this doesn't spiral into that being taken away.

I doubt it. People (including me) have just been arguing about this for the sake of arguing about it for awhile now. I doubt that anything will come from it, mainly because I doubt that there can be a clear policy to differentiate between the two types of bleeders that show up in the game. I still find the "but you prevent infection that's way more notable a benefit than traveling to different areas of the game AFK!" argument a bit silly, though, even if it is true.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 10:59 AM CST
>>What if they just made out-of-game experience drain go at the same rate as in-game experience drain? Wouldn't that pretty much solve the problem here?

What problem? Other than being brought up in an attempt to say that tending non-infectious bleeders while afk is similar enough to idling that it should be allowed I don't think anyone's had an actual complaint against idle draining.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:01 AM CST
>What problem?

The problem of wanting to stay logged in to drain faster while having a bleeder.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:02 AM CST
>>What if they just made out-of-game experience drain go at the same rate as in-game experience drain? Wouldn't that pretty much solve the problem here?

Ehhh... it's not really a problem, plus you could always factor in how people with multiple active characters on an account drain while offline despite if you're even logged into another character at that time, etc etc etc.

I was just highlighting claims that draining exp while logged in AFK having "no benefit" are a bit of a lie.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:05 AM CST
>>If it was viewed as a benefit, being AFK and draining would pretty much require you to leave the game.

Sure, if they changed the rules then the thing that they changed the rules about would be against the rules then. That's true of any theoretical rule change that anyone can come up with. The useful discussion is if the rules should be changed and if so then why? I don't see any reason to change the rules on idle exp drain.

>>Kinda the point of the discussion: that what counts as a benefit and doesn't count as a benefit comes off as a bit weird at times.

Doing things in a game when you're not actually around to make your person do them has long been viewed as a problem by most gamer communities and most gaming companies that I've been aware of.

Idling in a persistent world has generally been considered acceptable in all of these same communities. I've never seen a good reason why it shouldn't be, unless server connections are becoming a problem.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:07 AM CST
>>The problem of wanting to stay logged in to drain faster while having a bleeder.

That problem is the bleeder though, not the idle experience drain.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:13 AM CST
>>Doing things in a game when you're not actually around to make your person do them has long been viewed as a problem by most gamer communities and most gaming companies that I've been aware of.

...yeah. And yet travel to another location for possible future EXP gain, and draining current EXP to make space for future EXP gain is okay policy-wise in DR, but tending a non-threatening bleeder in order to keep it around for future EXP gain later isn't.

>>Idling in a persistent world has generally been considered acceptable in all of these same communities.

Do all those game communities also essentially have two steps of experience gain or do those games pretty much instantly grant experience into tangible results when completed?

Also, travel.

As I said before, I have no issue with people draining AFK or traveling AFK, but I can't possibly believe that you don't see those things as obvious advantages.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:19 AM CST
Gang,

Other than the reminder that Cyclic spells should not be running while you're AFK, the AFK scripting policy has not changed since 2008.

The snarky posts aimed at each other and Staff need to stop or people will be losing their ability to post.

Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:42 AM CST
>> policy is just not capable of differentiating between the two

>>I think this is it. Wouldn't it require them to do a case by case analysis to check if each person's afk bleeder was type 1 or 2?

Can it? Maybe. Should it? Probably not. Any precedent that introduces grey areas is just going to be a freaking headache for the GMs, because someone will push the envelope and force you to give exact details.

The problem is when you try to define "requires medical attention" bleeder. This will vary wildly from character to character; to a brand new character with 0 first aid and 12 stamina, a light bleeder could be deadly, whereas a high level Empath with 500 FA can normally handle two broken legs without issue.

If you say non-threatening bleeders are okay, then you open the avenue to having people argue with you (as an AFK-enforcing GM) which bleeders are and aren't potentially threatening to your character. Even if you use Genie's auto-tend, eventually you will get an infection. So what if you get infected, but you normally don't, yes? Proving what's life-threatening and what isn't becomes a case of arguing hypotheticals and running vitality-death simulations and all sorts of nonsense when it actually comes down to enforcement.

Best to just say "log out or get healed first" and move on. Enforcement of that is incredibly simple.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 03:38 PM CST
>Not really. I mean, if something doesn't exist or exists in such an infinitesimal scale, I think it's reasonable to not consider it a policy-breaking benefit.

Your comment "I know people keep saying this, but I've never experienced it ever." makes it irrelevant, just because you've never experienced it doesn't mean it's not a benefit. Since you've never experienced it do you know the average time it takes to get infected from keeping a wound permanently tended vs. an open wound? How do you know it's infinitesimal? You yourself said you've never experienced it. What if it was a 25% time differential? A 50% time differential? Your comment is based on assumption and your non statistical experience.

>Well, yeah. That's kinda how it's always worked. Why do you think some things are acceptable to do while AFK while other things aren't acceptable to do while AFK? Exp drain rates being faster while in game than out is a clear benefit, but it's not of a magnitude that makes it against policy. Same apparently goes for all passive decay timers that take place only while in game like shock, corruption, outrage, etc.

LOL policy doesn't state ANY activity that results in NON-INFINITESIMAL BENEFITS to either you or another player wile being unresponive to the gaming environment will be considered against policy, now does it?

>See, that's my point. Any exp gain is against policy. It's a clear-cut rule. 1/34 or 34/34 it doesn't matter. There's a clear definition...

Right, just like Any activity that results in any benefits is against policy, that's a clear definition too. Even if it includes marginal or excessive benefit.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 04:07 PM CST
>>Right, just like Any activity that results in any benefits is against policy, that's a clear definition too. Even if it includes marginal or excessive benefit.

There's no reason to respond to you if you outright refuse to acknowledge the notion that traveling and draining experience in-game at a faster rate than out of game is beneficial, yet they're still generally okay to do AFK.

I can't imagine how someone being impartial wouldn't see it that way, despite any personal views on it being fair/unfair/acceptable/unacceptable in relation to other policy stances.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 04:43 PM CST
>>traveling and draining experience in-game at a faster rate than out of game is beneficial, yet they're still generally okay to do AFK.

I think the point, with those, is that they are explicit exceptions to the general policy. They should probably be made explicit in the NEWS items, rather than just on the boards, but the important thing to remember is that there are no exceptions to this policy other than the ones explicitly made by the GMs.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 05:07 PM CST
>>I think the point, with those, is that they are explicit exceptions to the general policy.

Also my point. :P

>>but the important thing to remember is that there are no exceptions to this policy other than the ones explicitly made by the GMs.

Also my point, but I do like how silly it reads when it's written out. "There are no exceptions outside of the exceptions." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-cT58rgNc



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 10:29 PM CST
<<There's no reason to respond to you if you outright refuse to acknowledge the notion that traveling and draining experience in-game at a faster rate than out of game is beneficial, yet they're still generally okay to do AFK.>>>

I always read it as those are allowed, beneficial or not they are implicitly allowed. Why are you so hung up on the verbiage of what's beneficial. Those are exceptions implicitly allowed, move on.

- Buuwl
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/07/2013 11:08 PM CST
>>Why are you so hung up on the verbiage of what's beneficial.

Because saying those things have no benefit is disingenuous.



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 07:32 AM CST

<<<Because saying those things have no benefit is disingenuous.>>

Fair enough it should say, all things benificial not allowed except travel and drain.
- Buuwl
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 07:39 AM CST
I'm a bit late to the party here.


http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 01:31 PM CST
I'm amazed this is such a matter of concern and yielded so many comments.

With all the major AFK scripting that isn't caught, or that has a blind eye turned towards it, the chances of someone being busted for a pet bleeder enough times that they got a penalty would be less likely than getting struck by lightning.



Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 01:37 PM CST
>>With all the major AFK scripting that isn't caught, or that has a blind eye turned towards it

Eeeeeeeehhhhhhh...



The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 04:03 PM CST
>What if they just made out-of-game experience drain go at the same rate as in-game experience drain? Wouldn't that pretty much solve the problem here?

I think it would. Why require someone to stay logged into the game and eat up more system resources, while breaking immersion for anyone that might come across them in their hiding spot while they're unresponsive? IMO experience, stealing timers, DO timers etc should all move at the same rate while online or offline.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 04:04 PM CST
I disagree off line drain should not equal in game drain.

- Buuwl
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 04:20 PM CST


>I disagree off line drain should not equal in game drain.


Why is this? Genuinely curious what the plus side for encouraging folks stay logged in while unresponsive to the game is for either the game, GMs, or players.

Jalika
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 07:58 PM CST
>Why is this? Genuinely curious what the plus side for encouraging folks stay logged in while unresponsive to the game is for either the game, GMs, or players.

Only thing I can think of is that it might encourage people to cycle between characters more.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/08/2013 08:27 PM CST
>>Only thing I can think of is that it might encourage people to cycle between characters more.

It would do that. I don't see how that would be considered a bad thing though. Seems like a good thing to encourage if you ask me

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 03:06 AM CST
>>Right, just like Any activity that results in any benefits is against policy, that's a clear definition too. Even if it includes marginal or excessive benefit.

I know I'm like four pages late to responding to my own thread, but it got so out of control so fast that I just read the red responses and decided not to say anything else, but I have to comment on this. The entire reason I made this thread is because this is just not true at all and I wanted to clarify about tending bleeders. There are many things that you gain benefit from that you can do while afk without getting into any trouble and they've been covered extensively by other people. Waiting out DO timers, waiting out Shock timers, waiting out auto-locked-open timers from stealing or what have you, draining exp, traveling, rebuilding Thief and Ranger bonuses by idling in or out of town. These are all things that are benefits that you are allowed to do while afk, and those are all just off the top of my head.

You keep saying that any activity that results in any benefit is against policy, but it's just not true. Even though I think, "making sure you don't die" is an incredibly stupid "benefit" to make against policy, I wanted to clarify because I've never broken policy and wanted to make sure which side of the beneficial activity part of the scripting policy it fell on since it had recently became part of my Paladin's training regime. If anything that gave any benefit was actually against policy like you keep claiming(which even in this very thread a GM responded saying that something that was a benefit - waiting out Empathic Shock - is okay to do while afk) then it wouldn't even be a question.

I'm not arguing the call that it is against policy. That's up to the GMs and it's been taken out of my training regime. I just had to respond because he keeps acting like it was a dumb question because nothing that gives your character any benefit is allowed, which just clearly isn't true so I asked.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 04:14 AM CST


Traveling aside, if you really cant see the difference between those "off the top of your head" things and running a script that tends your bleeder... please try again.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 10:42 AM CST
>Traveling aside, if you really cant see the difference between those "off the top of your head" things and running a script that tends your bleeder... please try again.

QFT, shouldn't base exceptions as the basis for policy. GM's can make and comment on exceptions, but that doesn't mean since they made exceptions for certain actions, other actions you deem as similar benefits will apply as well.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 01:44 PM CST
Why has this thread blown up so much over miniscule technicalities?

A SGM gave input. Disagree or not, there's no need to get so rebellious, just follow policy. Wow.

If you were to take a safe approach (my recommendation), then you should completely avoid any and all grey areas so that there's literally a 0 chance of getting an AFK scripting warning. But no, people have this obsession with tip-toeing that line and want to dispute anything that doesn't make sense to them. Just follow the rules and enjoy the game, it's not that hard.



Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 01:55 PM CST
>>follow the rules and enjoy the game

Win.

~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 08:34 PM CST
By the way, The courtesy of setting yourself to sleep while afk draing experience would provide two advantages, faster experience drain AND provide an in game reason for the unresponsiveness.

Carlos

I'll never win a 'Ronald Reagan Great Communicator Award'.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/09/2013 08:45 PM CST
>>AND provide an in game reason for the unresponsiveness.

This is not a legitimate "advantage" IMO. If you're not playing the game, you should log out - or at least, that's how I think the system should work. On reflection I support setting out-of-game drain rate equal to in-game drain rate if it means less zombies sitting around unresponsive.
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/10/2013 09:06 AM CST
Why not just make this a practical benefit of homes? You go to your home, log out, log-in. If you're in your home when it calculates the XP bonus then it gives you a bonus drain.

It also opens room for auctioned furniture or fixtures that boosts your xp drain even more, never to exceed the drain that could occur from being logged in the entire time, and a timer on how often you can benefit from this in a given day (solely to prevent people from setting an alarm every hour to login and lock their character).
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Re: AFK scripting question! 02/11/2013 11:21 AM CST
>>On reflection I support setting out-of-game drain rate equal to in-game drain rate if it means less zombies sitting around unresponsive.

This^ i really dislike the fact that if I know I am going to be gone for an hour or 2 such as go watch a movie, I stay logged in to get full drain. :/ When I could log out for an hour or 2 and back in and know I didn't miss out on experience.

Apu, mechanics change, so just because a slight bleeder doesn't esculate/take much vitality now doesn't mean it may not in the future.

TEVESHSZAT, I guess it could be considered an advantage that if I go afk and my IF regens, that's an IG advantage. That would make it so certain classes could never go AFK unless their passive regens were already full. I think some of those things are passed over because there is no way for a player to control them since they are passive. There are also some items on timers that you can't use unless X IG time passes I think.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
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