>>Naohhi: Tending while AFK is a violation of the scripting policy. It does not matter if you are under SLEEP or not. It isn't a question of actively gaining new EXP in this case. You're AFK and keeping your character alive by tending it. This is seen as an AFK benefit, and could result in a warning if caught.

Thanks!

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Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!

>>Anywho, the question has been answered. I'm just baffled people are actually surprised at this.

People are probably surprised because the idea of there being a viable risk when tending a slight bleeder is right there next to a ship rat devouring you.

Not surprised that GMs can't go "well, that bleeder is okay" but at the same time there's a notable difference between a purposeful/controlled bleeder versus one that actually has risk tied to it.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

>to script check someone minding their own business in a quiet room

Chances are you'll never get busted, unless you leave your character for quite a few hours/days. I think most AFK script checks are initiated by someone getting annoyed by something you're doing (whether this is taking up a hunting room for days straight, or spamming the room with a poorly written script).

>I don't care what a GM post says, this is not against policy

That's a very cavalier attitude to take, and I'd be careful about sharing it. Especially, when you post with a blue name.

Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

>>I don't care what a GM post says, this is not against policy

GMs write and enforce the policy. You can't argue with it, because they create and interpret it and have both the judge and jury powers.

They were asked bluntly for a definitive answer without wiggle room. The answer, EVERY time, to a similar stupid question is going to be the most narrow and hard core interpretation of the rules as written because that has to be the official, on paper, stance of the company.

Anyone who doesn't understand this is foolish at best.

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Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.

>>GMs write and {sometimes} enforce the policy.

FTFY

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Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry

>>You're maintaining and upkeeping a wound which provides the direct advantages of...

These seem like such lazy reasons.

If Empaths can stay in game to drain shock and Necromancers can stay in game to drain outrages (not like it was really needed for them), and everyone can stay in game to drain exp faster than if they were logged out, I fail to see how "you got to keep your bleeder during that time!" is such a different "direct advantage". And let's not forget how being able to be in location A, go AFK, and then be in location B is apparently not a direct advantage, either.

In the end, what is labeled as a direct advantage seems kinda arbitrary or, in cases like Empaths and 2.0 shock, recognized as a notable advantage but accepted because "hey the shock system is kinda dumb so yeah break that rule if you want."

IMO, "direct advantage" should amount to "helping someone else and/or proactively gaining new experience in your pools" because otherwise these exceptions seem a bit thrown at the wall to see which stick.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

>>GMs write and enforce the policy. You can't argue with it,

Yes I can. I am arguing (perhaps incorrectly) that the GMs have not ever and will not ever enforce this policy. If something is not enforced then it doesn't matter what is written down

>>1) Preventing your wound from potentially becoming infected.
>>2) Preserving a facet of training which would otherwise not be available to you if you were to get the wound healed.
>>3) As a GM has posted, it keeps you alive. Keep in mind that vitality drain from bleeding hasn't been rebalanced for 3.0 yet, and having a wound bleed out continually may in fact prove to be fatal in the future.

All of these are false. 1) tended wounds can still potentially become infected. 2) pet bleeders are still extremely available if you do get it healed. 3) Tending a bleeder does not "keep you alive" because you won't die by leaving it untended - what might happen "in the future" does not matter until it actually happens.

Look, if I really gave a crap about staying logged on to drain my experience while keeping my pet bleeders, all I would have to do is not tend the bleeders, have my script check health every few minutes and log out in the off-chance that my wounds are infected. Tending the bleeder in sleep mode vs standing there not tending the bleeder is absolutely no different - you learn nothing, you keep your bleeders, you won't die from vitality loss, and you better have your script keep an eye out for infection and log out if necessary. The fact that such a simple method to achieve the exact same thing is available while staying within policy, proves that no in-game advantage is gained by tending bleeders in sleep mode.

Or are we also going to claim that standing there bleeding while afk is also an "in-game advantage"? Can we at least agree that this would be completely ridiculous?

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/

>>The reasons it was allowed then and is still allowed now is a bit more complicated than that.

Well, that's kinda what I mean, though. The "direct advantage" thing doesn't seem set in stone.

One of the things I liked about 3.0 was that certain things were set in stone. Sphere of Influence means X. Crafted item stats now follow a strict/balanced formula based on visible/tangible facts. Etc. I know it's not as easy to craft policy as it is game rules, but it might not hurt to strive to reach that kind of goal.

Take traveling AFK for example. As far as I know, there are no exceptions to the rule. If you're going from Hibble-bibble to Riverhaven just because you want to or you're a Cleric going to Crossing because your alt died and you want to Resurrect it or you're a Paladin silently traveling to finish the Glyph of Light quest you won't get an AFK warning, because travel is travel is travel.

Then there's AFK exp gain. There is no case where it's okay. Same goes for giving other people exp while you're AFK. All that stuff is always against policy. There is no exception to the rule.

Then there's the "other stuff". Draining shock/outrage/teleological corruption (I guess) is okay, as are running down timers that require you to be in-game, even though they exist for penalty-based purposes and you're just avoiding them by not playing the game at the time. Maintaining a bleeder with zero risk is not okay. Getting an infection seems to not be okay by proxy. Removing an infection by it passively wearing off seems okay. Not sure where herbs fall on this. I'm guessing that eating herbs would be bad, but the healing effects of herbs eaten while ATK might be okay? Not sure there.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

As an aside, this probably wouldn't even be a discussion if First Aid wasn't something sorely in need of recoding. It's always been a bit stupid that we had to go out of our way to injure ourselves in order to train First Aid, but we've all kinda accepted it at this point.

Yes, compendiums exist, but past something like the mid 200s in First Aid they get kinda toothless because the gap between being not being able to understand a chart and proper process a chart gets so thin that the ability to keep competently studying the same one over and over without actually finishing poofs.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

LOL at this whole thread. DR policy is nothing but one big gray area, and expecting it to ever change is just futile.

People HAVE been pulled up for being unresponsive while using a travel script. It is very possible to learn new exp while traveling, unless you take every ferry or barge, which is in violation of policy. Thinking that policy is cut and dry for everyone is just laughable. It is up for interpretation depending on the day, and the person/people/GM involved. The fact that they aren't strict in enforcing it is really a benefit to everyone, because in the end we would have a lower population in this game than what we have now.

>>I'm at a loss as to what you'd be expected to respond to while traveling between points, you're never in any one location for more than a fraction of a second? What response is supposed to happen during that kind of time frame?

Unless you're riding public transport, then you're potentially in contact with other people.

I think more people get busted AFK scripting than you all think. I also think some people are paying closer attention than you might think

- Buuwl

For a short time a few years ago we got regular updates on how many people were busted for various stuff. It was pretty impressive.

<<Not only that, I am going to state that whichever SGM provided that answer is flat out wrong. >>

No they're not. Sorry, but Naohhi is absolutely correct.


Solomon

When it comes to judging the grey area of things, one thing I'd advise (and it's just me) is to take into consideration where the GMs will want to draw a line for enforcement convenience reasons. While there's room to argue that a number of "sleeping" things (tending, travel, etc) are or are not advantages, the simple fact that a GM must start to dig into the specific details of the situation beyond "are they or are they not responsive" is probably a bad sign for you.

Technically, just idling afk asleep to drain is an in game advantage, as it can allow you to drain faster than those that log out and return before the auto drain has fully triggered. This applies even moreso when it's someone with an AFK scripting warning that "shortcuts" the auto drain mechanic loss by just sleeping IG. I note that example just to point out the "advantage" clause pretty much gives the GMs discretion to deal with the situation as fits (which is a good thing in my opinion); if you feel like you're pushing a grey area, you're probably right.

>> policy is just not capable of differentiating between the two

I think this is it. Wouldn't it require them to do a case by case analysis to check if each person's afk bleeder was type 1 or 2?

I think the smarter solution is the heavier handed policy, as stated, that can be a little selectively enforced, as players have noticed already happening with other policies. It seems to me that it would take too many GM-hours to have policy account for figuring out if each person's bleeder is harmful to them over time or not.

>>I think this is it. Wouldn't it require them to do a case by case analysis to check if each person's afk bleeder was type 1 or 2?

Eh, I think it's too fluid to determine in a sane manner outside of "of course this is a controlled bleeder I have 400 first aid and it's slight"

>>Keeping the bleeder tended decreases the risk of infection = benefit.

I know people keep saying this, but I've never experienced it ever.

It's also a bit lazy when it comes to what counts as a benefit. If this counts, exp drain as a whole should count. Faster exp drain = benefit, too, you know?

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

>> If this counts, exp drain as a whole should count. Faster exp drain = benefit, too, you know?

Faster than what? If everyone can stay logged in to drain it doesn't provide anyone with any specific benefit.

IF any bleeder can really get infected without tending then the tending while afk thing really can't be rationalized as similar to standing there and doing nothing.

I say IF because I don't know and from your reports vs others there seems to be a disagreement about if it's possible.

>>Faster than what?

Faster than draining out of game.

>>If everyone can stay logged in to drain it doesn't provide anyone with any specific benefit.

It provides you with a faster drain rate if you're going to stop being AFK in under 8 hours.

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The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).

>>Faster than draining out of game.

There's no requirement to leave the game when draining, so it's not really an advantage over anyone except for people who log out by choice.