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LHALLFIN
Re: Idle drain
04/06/2013 10:29 PM CDT
>Just fix it.
>Lots of bad
That's what we're trying to do, its been made painfully obvious by years of silence that this "fix" isn't gonna happen unless there's a darn good reason.
If someone doesn't like a suggestion, great and please do continue to say so, but please at least make some attempt to post something constructive.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Idle drain
04/07/2013 12:15 AM CDT
>>That's what we're trying to do, its been made painfully obvious by years of silence that this "fix" isn't gonna happen unless there's a darn good reason.
I'm not sure this is the case? Didn't mean to shoot down your suggestion, but player discussion about possible flaws in the game's design has influenced many changes over the years, either directly or indirectly. Sometimes it just takes a while for a GM to get around to coding a fix.
I'm not sure this is the case? Didn't mean to shoot down your suggestion, but player discussion about possible flaws in the game's design has influenced many changes over the years, either directly or indirectly. Sometimes it just takes a while for a GM to get around to coding a fix.
USAF-SPARKY
Re: Idle drain
04/07/2013 07:22 AM CDT
I'm a bit lost on this thread. What is it that requires fixed, because
1) Best learning used to be at mind lock, this was changed so you learn the same at all levels.
2) There used to be no experience drain while logged off, this benefit was added as long as you aren't serving a warning penalty.
3) There used to be wall ranks which depended on skillset placement. This has been removed for the most part. Odd and even ranks have a slight difference. Skillset placement does still matter for overall learning rate.
4) Learning skills had been increased by a huge amount when they did all those changes. I thought 3.0 was supposed to slow things back down, but it appears to me that learning is just as fast for the most part. From the sounds of things in other folders, there appears to be at least a goal of x skill should be able to be locked in y minutes.
My impression was they were trying to fix the issue of min/max players feeling they needed to hunt constantly leaving no time for role playing.
I don't get why offline drain needs to equal online drain. Offline drain was added so a person didn't HAVE to stay logged in to drain experience since staying at mind locked was no longer optimal for learning. It was something added to give some players the option to now log out after training instead of running an idle drain script. Ideally, they should be getting with friends and role playing after locking their skills, not logging out or running an idle script, but you can only lead a horse to water.
The only benefit I see with making offline and online drain equal, would be those with multiple characters so that they can log one on, lock skills, log next one on, lock skills, ... , then when the last one is done, cycle back to the first which would have all skill pools absorbed.
Is that the direction that Simu would want the game to go, or the average player? That's assuming the average player isn't already min/max players. Why would anybody RP then, besides the ones who play to RP, because optimal playing would be constantly hunting and rotating through characters, which all the above changes were trying to get away from, constant hunting to keep at mind lock.
Leave things as they are. If a person wants to run an idle drain script, they are allowed as long as they aren't doing anything while running it that breaks policy. If they don't want to do that, they can log off and use the offline experience drain that was added for them. Its not optimal if a person is gone for less than 8 hours, but that's a choice a player can make. Don't make it even more beneficial to avoid role playing, there are already enough reasons to avoid it.
1) Best learning used to be at mind lock, this was changed so you learn the same at all levels.
2) There used to be no experience drain while logged off, this benefit was added as long as you aren't serving a warning penalty.
3) There used to be wall ranks which depended on skillset placement. This has been removed for the most part. Odd and even ranks have a slight difference. Skillset placement does still matter for overall learning rate.
4) Learning skills had been increased by a huge amount when they did all those changes. I thought 3.0 was supposed to slow things back down, but it appears to me that learning is just as fast for the most part. From the sounds of things in other folders, there appears to be at least a goal of x skill should be able to be locked in y minutes.
My impression was they were trying to fix the issue of min/max players feeling they needed to hunt constantly leaving no time for role playing.
I don't get why offline drain needs to equal online drain. Offline drain was added so a person didn't HAVE to stay logged in to drain experience since staying at mind locked was no longer optimal for learning. It was something added to give some players the option to now log out after training instead of running an idle drain script. Ideally, they should be getting with friends and role playing after locking their skills, not logging out or running an idle script, but you can only lead a horse to water.
The only benefit I see with making offline and online drain equal, would be those with multiple characters so that they can log one on, lock skills, log next one on, lock skills, ... , then when the last one is done, cycle back to the first which would have all skill pools absorbed.
Is that the direction that Simu would want the game to go, or the average player? That's assuming the average player isn't already min/max players. Why would anybody RP then, besides the ones who play to RP, because optimal playing would be constantly hunting and rotating through characters, which all the above changes were trying to get away from, constant hunting to keep at mind lock.
Leave things as they are. If a person wants to run an idle drain script, they are allowed as long as they aren't doing anything while running it that breaks policy. If they don't want to do that, they can log off and use the offline experience drain that was added for them. Its not optimal if a person is gone for less than 8 hours, but that's a choice a player can make. Don't make it even more beneficial to avoid role playing, there are already enough reasons to avoid it.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Idle drain
04/07/2013 12:26 PM CDT
>>The only benefit I see with making offline and online drain equal, would be those with multiple characters so that they can log one on, lock skills, log next one on, lock skills, ... , then when the last one is done, cycle back to the first which would have all skill pools absorbed.
What's the problem with this, exactly? If they want to train, they will train. If they want to roleplay, they will roleplay. The fact that a person with multiple characters could more effectively train would not affect the roleplay environment at all, I feel, and that is speaking as someone who has run the whole gamut of game experiences (multiple accounts logged in at the same time, character-switching between a single account, only having one character active at a certain time).
If you're worried about people training too easily or too hardcore, I think that genie escaped the bottle years ago and is never being put back in.
>>Is that the direction that Simu would want the game to go, or the average player? That's assuming the average player isn't already min/max players. Why would anybody RP then, besides the ones who play to RP, because optimal playing would be constantly hunting and rotating through characters, which all the above changes were trying to get away from, constant hunting to keep at mind lock.
The problem is as discussed: the introduction of offline drain was a nice touch, but it didn't solve the fundamental problem for which it was originally created, which is that players have incentive to stay logged into the game even when they are asleep or otherwise unresponsive.
Unless they are asleep in the safety of their locked house, having inattentive players connected is a possible hindrance to the immersion and roleplay environment. Bad enough that the game's design basically mandates everyone script heavily, I don't feel we need completely inactive players sitting around, too. The game should just encourage people to log off when they're done training by knowing they will drain as quickly disconnected as when they're connected.
What's the problem with this, exactly? If they want to train, they will train. If they want to roleplay, they will roleplay. The fact that a person with multiple characters could more effectively train would not affect the roleplay environment at all, I feel, and that is speaking as someone who has run the whole gamut of game experiences (multiple accounts logged in at the same time, character-switching between a single account, only having one character active at a certain time).
If you're worried about people training too easily or too hardcore, I think that genie escaped the bottle years ago and is never being put back in.
>>Is that the direction that Simu would want the game to go, or the average player? That's assuming the average player isn't already min/max players. Why would anybody RP then, besides the ones who play to RP, because optimal playing would be constantly hunting and rotating through characters, which all the above changes were trying to get away from, constant hunting to keep at mind lock.
The problem is as discussed: the introduction of offline drain was a nice touch, but it didn't solve the fundamental problem for which it was originally created, which is that players have incentive to stay logged into the game even when they are asleep or otherwise unresponsive.
Unless they are asleep in the safety of their locked house, having inattentive players connected is a possible hindrance to the immersion and roleplay environment. Bad enough that the game's design basically mandates everyone script heavily, I don't feel we need completely inactive players sitting around, too. The game should just encourage people to log off when they're done training by knowing they will drain as quickly disconnected as when they're connected.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Idle drain
04/07/2013 02:09 PM CDT
>>Bad enough that the game's design basically mandates everyone script heavily, I don't feel we need completely inactive players sitting around, too.
I think a mountain has been made from a mole hill. If it crushes immersion when Joe is sitting in the corner draining EXP, there is probably something more out of place than just idle drain.
>>genie escaped the bottle years ago and is never being put back in.
^This. Dragonrealms is no longer a role playing game. It's now a min/max statistics lesson with a sprinkling of PVP and some people you hangout with. Don't get me wrong, there are still people that roleplay and some of them do a damn fine job keeping it up, but even those folks are breaking out the calculators and hard core scripts.
It's not bad, just different, and I'm not sure people have changed, as we've just lost some of the RP'ing population, and held on to the number geeks.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
I think a mountain has been made from a mole hill. If it crushes immersion when Joe is sitting in the corner draining EXP, there is probably something more out of place than just idle drain.
>>genie escaped the bottle years ago and is never being put back in.
^This. Dragonrealms is no longer a role playing game. It's now a min/max statistics lesson with a sprinkling of PVP and some people you hangout with. Don't get me wrong, there are still people that roleplay and some of them do a damn fine job keeping it up, but even those folks are breaking out the calculators and hard core scripts.
It's not bad, just different, and I'm not sure people have changed, as we've just lost some of the RP'ing population, and held on to the number geeks.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
ROBERTDH
Re: Idle drain
04/07/2013 02:46 PM CDT
I think it's going too far to say idling players break "immersion," and if it does it can be overcome with practice on the player's part (letting go of attachments is the path to the dharma). It also implies there are idle characters around ever corner, snoring loudly while their brainclocks tick down.
There's a handful of them hanging around each social hub, every few days one of them is sitting in the midst of a gathering because they don't know better yet.
All they are is boring, and occasionally an irritation during an invasion or when you've just spent a couple minutes tracking them down anticipating some fun.
It'd be nice if they all logged off, and the game supported them in this decision, but people should probably take a few deep breaths about it either way.
There's a handful of them hanging around each social hub, every few days one of them is sitting in the midst of a gathering because they don't know better yet.
All they are is boring, and occasionally an irritation during an invasion or when you've just spent a couple minutes tracking them down anticipating some fun.
It'd be nice if they all logged off, and the game supported them in this decision, but people should probably take a few deep breaths about it either way.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Idle drain
04/08/2013 04:18 AM CDT
>It'd be nice if they all logged off, and the game supported them in this decision, but people should probably take a few deep breaths about it either way.
I don't believe anyone's over-reacting, the discussion has been fairly low key.
In any case, I think "inactive/inattentive players should be logging out of the game" is a good maxim to follow. Makes enforcing scripting policy easier, eliminates grey areas like sleep mode and tending wounds while inactive, all sorts of stuff. It's really a no-lose situation to just set off-game drain to in-game drain (IMO), and it gets rid of some needless clutter.
I don't believe anyone's over-reacting, the discussion has been fairly low key.
In any case, I think "inactive/inattentive players should be logging out of the game" is a good maxim to follow. Makes enforcing scripting policy easier, eliminates grey areas like sleep mode and tending wounds while inactive, all sorts of stuff. It's really a no-lose situation to just set off-game drain to in-game drain (IMO), and it gets rid of some needless clutter.
MAGIC1300
Re: Idle drain
04/08/2013 09:42 AM CDT
Wouldn't it be relatively simple to have idle drain be the same as active drain as long as you didn't log in any other characters in the mean time?
