>?I know others have said it, but I don't think cooldown's for these abilities should exist anymore provided you have the concentration to restart it (With exception of Eliminate/Vanish). At the very least, can these be looked at, or toned down?

I'll second that.

This was likely answered already but what is the reason for CD timers on Khri other than Vanish/Eliminate? I know that Barb abilities ahve minimal Stop/Restart timers and if I recall correct Kudios was looking to remove that what was it 2 min start/restart timer. Why not do same for thiefs limitation is Concentration pool much like the Inner Fire pool. If you sppamed multiple Khri you'd tank concentration pretty quick.

You lost me Kodius. What do the learning timers have to do with anything?

The khri timers are Hard blocks on using the abilities, not learning from them. As in you can't start up an ability for at least 2 minutes after it ends, even if you have the resources to do so. That's the timer everyone hates on khri. Most, if not all, abilities allow you to start them right back as soon as they end if you have the mana/IF/etc to do so.

I was responding to the poster who said they thought Kodius was going to remove barbarian learning cooldown timers or something.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<<Re: Barbarians 3.1 on 01/08/2014 11:27 PM EST Kudious said in Barb folders: >>What if it removed the 60-second startup-time on Forms while in effect?>>

You're conflating the use of timers across abilities. The Barb "timer" is in reference to the bonus-scaling structure of forms; forms take a little while to actually reach max bonus.

<<I equate Khri structure to Barb abilities structure>>

There's your problem.

<<Pretty sure the whole intent of all these "magic" and "not magic" abilities was to have similar core mechanics and run off similar structures so they can be brought in line and "balanced">>

Balanced/similar systems do not equate to replicas of each other.

Ok let me try this differently. Why is tehre a CD penalty for skills that you PAY to start and pay for its duration. Your basicaly told you have a tool box full of tools BUT you have 2 hands so only 2 tools at the time or if you are REALLY taltented you can balance multiple tools. HOWEVER once you put X tool away you are NOT allowed to take it out of the box again for X period of time. Why? Just because...

>>The cooldown isn't a penalty. It's part of the cost.

Ok... what other guild ability works like this? Other guilds?

>>Ok... what other guild ability works like this?

All guilds with khri who pay to activate abilities using concentration use this system.


Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

100% of guilds with khri have cooldowns.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

I think now you understand why it's silly to ask why one system works uses one set of rules while other system uses another set of rules. You don't hear war mages complaining that they can't restore mana by killing mobs similar to how Barbarians can restore Inner Fire in combat. Similarly, Barbarians don't lament that Paladins don't lose mana when anti-stun triggers.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>why have CD when Concentration is a limited supply and you cant endlessly spamm infinate number of Khri without tanking your concentration pool.

Because no one mindlessly spams khri commands over and over. The point is that they want a cooldown between keeping khri up.

Why? Because they do.

Why not for other things? Because those are other things.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>Why? Because they do.

This is a crap reasoning process. Why did I set that guy on fire? Because I did! Why did he deserve it? Because I did it! It's circular to say the least.

At some point, the re-use timer (it's not really a cool down timer, it's specifically a timer to inhibit re-use) was put in to balance khri which were designed and built in an entirely different game; not even DR 2.0, pre-DR-2.0. Khri have been redone a little since then, but the core mechanics are just showing their age. The re-use timer originally balanced a system where thieves didn't have a real resource issue; concentration was plentiful and not used by anything.

Not so much any more. It's used by everything thieves do.

And khri now use/depend on skill instead of stats and circle. No one else gets a hard-lock re-use timer on mundane, day to day, abilities. Mages don't have some restriction on spell use (oh wait, hey mana, you look a lot like concentration in this new paradigm, so let's get that out of the way). Barbs don't either.

Assuming a class has the resource/confound to cast/start/whatever the ability, they can do so. Thieves? Not so much.

If the timer is a hard coded aspect of khri, which can't be changed without basically rewriting the entire system from the ground up, then that should be mentioned and the (not insane) players will drop it for the 3.1 release.

We take a hit when starting khri and the same hit when we stop them, plus continual drain while running them and dont forget every ambush costs concentration also. We have enough damn limitations on how many we can use and how to manage our concentration pool, quit slitting our throats with another timer. If we want to use only a few khri for full duration and then use them again straight away we should be allowed if we can manage it.

If advice was any good, they wouldn't give it out for free.

>>Other abilities have timers, they're just not as obvious. Magic's timer is in the form of prep... wait... cast. Barbarian form timers make you have to wait for a form to get to full power. Khri timers are just on the back end instead of the front end.

That is false. Khri have timers associated on both front and back ends. Khri start x gives RT dependent on how many you are attempting to start at once. Khri delay (most efficient/easiest) X for me takes about 17 seconds activate, and you can only activate one at the time (which is fine, I have no complaints there).

I think a 2 minute, 35 second cooldown is overkill. Excluding vanish/elim, I'd rather not have a CD to re-use these core abilities. At the very least, the 2:35 timer should be reduced drastically.

The cooldown needs to be removed. 3.1 is going to push us up hunting levels, we are going to need our buffs up at all times. What are we supposed to do for that 2.5 minutes while our buffs our down?

>>3.1 is going to push us up hunting levels, we are going to need our buffs up at all times.

Combat in general is created in a way that assumes no one uses any particular buffs, similar to how it's constructed assuming not everyone is using T5+ gear. If you have to use buffs in order to train, my understanding is that it isn't intentional.

>>What are we supposed to do for that 2.5 minutes while our buffs our down?

You could always arrange it so not every buff falls at the same time.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>>What are we supposed to do for that 2.5 minutes while our buffs our down?

Roleplay.

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"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

>See what its like being a necromancer?

So you want us to cast QE, use an AoE TM attack, create and summon a zombie, heal ourselves with magic...I could keep going on, what was your point?

<So you want us to cast QE, use an AoE TM attack, create and summon a zombie, heal ourselves with magic...I could keep going on, what was your point?

Lol calm down, I was just being a smartass because I and most other necromancers don't hunt with combat buffs up. Basically if I cast combat buffs all the time I die from god smite. If it makes you feel any better I don't think there should be any CD time myself, other than the aforementioned abilities.