Alright, everything is working again, but the accuracy of ambushes is way down from where it was (which was already way too low), at level, or even dropping down a critter or two on the ladder nothing connects at all (as in complete failure).

So I literally cannot use them against anything I would actually train on.

Screen does not seem to be affected by whatever is currently causing this, and I didn't test ignite.

As a side note: Losing balance on a missed ambush seems like a bit over kill, its already 3-6 seconds RT for failure, being thrown down two balance states seems like too much.

Stun seems to be by far the least accurate.

Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a shadowy black nightmaster's shield displaying a dull midnight black durgauldite and a fuligin nightmaster's blade accented by a blackened moonsilver grip, you are certain that the Xala'shar thrall is a relatively easy opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a fuligin nightmaster's blade accented by a blackened moonsilver grip, you are certain that the Xala'shar thrall is a creature completely beneath your notice.
If you attacked with a fuligin nightmaster's blade accented by a blackened moonsilver grip, you are certain that the enemy would train somewhat poorly.
If you threw the blade at the enemy you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train somewhat poorly.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train very poorly.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train somewhat poorly.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.

You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
As you consider hiding around the Xala'shar thrall, you believe it couldn't spot the broad side of a barn (2/13).
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
As you consider an attempt to stalk the Xala'shar thrall, you could likely tail it forever (2/13).
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
As you consider a stealthy assault on the Xala'shar thrall, you believe it should not notice your attack (5/13).
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

This critter is what I would call 4 steps down on the critter ladder from me hunting at level, per soch they start at around 700 ranks. At level what I hunt starts around 1300 ranks.

Out of 20 ambush stuns: 1 connected, all others where complete misses.

The Xala'shar thrall is completely surprised by your stealthy maneuver!
The Xala'shar thrall manages to evade your heavy blow, leaping nimbly out of the way!
Roundtime: 3 sec.

> Stun seems to be by far the least accurate.

Even if stun is fixed, it is still power vs fortitude. This will make ambush stun not worth using because the duration is always going to be short for thief. I think stun should be finesse vs fortitude.

Soch placed temp portal to them and magi outside the crossings NE gate.

> All other ambushes accuracy makes me cry.

I have a sneaking suspicion this may be in part because of how weak stealth calculations are, i have watched a multitude of times as Ricinus tried to adjust the accuracy of ambushes but they fell short no matter what, maybe the effective stealth checks are what completely ruin ambushes.

>>Two problems with that: Kodius is already working on fixing engagement so that everyone cant just retre;retre so slash will be useless for even its intended purpose eventually... and the de-buff is only like 5 seconds long, so already not super good.

My changes are hardly coming out anytime soon, and any affected abilities would naturally be modified to compensate.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>Are you upset with the abilities vs critters or vs players?

Both? The effects are negligible and/or extremely short, also with a lot of SvS contests there's a huge tilt in favor of the caster, doesn't seem like we get any tilt at all. I know its all still up in the air for ambushes.

But I dunno SvS is just kinda bothering me a lot lately (before 3.1 testing even started). Now that we actually care about it... I can't really say I like it more.

>What are your stats compared to those of the enemy when you APP CAREFUL them?

Certain... about as X as you are. I've done multiple respecs, doesn't seem to matter if I have 80 in a stat with no buffs or 120 in a stat (including buffs) its always about as X as you are.

What is your skill in debilitation?

I dunno 800 something.

>Barbarians use the same formulas so I'd be surprised if you are having this much trouble affecting things.

Yeah sorry I thought of that just after I posted, so yeah its probably not that. But we are most certainly definitely absolutely having that much trouble affecting things.

>>Certain... about as X as you are. I've done multiple respecs, doesn't seem to matter if I have 80 in a stat with no buffs or 120 in a stat (including buffs) its always about as X as you are.

That sounds incredibly odd. Any chance you could grab me to take a look tomorrow? Wonder if it is an appraise bug.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

I'm doing this on a critter which as of 3.1 will no longer teach me about anything but here goes:

You feel like your powerful presence has gotten the better of a Misenseor resuscitant.

You are certain that it is apparently as strong as you are.
You are certain that it is rather less agile than you are.
You are certain that it is not quite as disciplined as you are.
You are certain that it is rather less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is not quite as conditioned as you are.

With debilitation grandfathered to 390 at 155.

I can't even land a 1 second stun anymore and all i'm getting is:

>ambush stun
The Misenseor resuscitant is completely surprised by your stealthy maneuver!
The Misenseor resuscitant manages to evade your heavy blow, leaping nimbly out of the way!
Roundtime: 3 sec.

>ambush stun
The Misenseor resuscitant is completely surprised by your stealthy maneuver!
You carefully position yourself behind a Misenseor resuscitant and prepare your attack. When the moment is perfect, you step forward and reveal yourself as you deftly land a solid blow to the back of its skullYou feel the attack make contact, but you don't think the strike was solid enough to cause any lasting effects.
[You're solidly balanced and in good position.]
Roundtime: 1 sec.

If this is any indication of how SvS works in PVP then players with all stats equaled to 100 will never land a stun?

>It probably needs to be mentioned that unlike other SvS contests, thieves don't have the ability to 'power up' by using more mana.

But aren't they already at max potency, so it's like if a mage was casting at their cap?

I'm having trouble with ambushes at 51st as well.

Strength : 36 Reflex : 27
Agility : 25 Charisma : 20
Discipline : 35 Wisdom : 25
Intelligence : 25 Stamina : 35

Inner Magic: 141 00% clear (0/34) Augmentation: 71 00% clear (0/34)
Debilitation: 115 21% clear (0/34) Utility: 71 00% clear (0/34)
Stealth: 226 85.97% clear (0/34) Backstab: 194 88.40% clear (0/34)

You are certain that the black leucro is healthy.
You are certain that it is somewhat weaker than you are.
You are certain that it is about as agile as you are.
You are certain that it is definitely less disciplined than you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is definitely less conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a small shield and a sabre, you are certain that the black leucro is a slightly less skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a sabre, you are certain that the black leucro is a very easy opponent.
If you attacked with a sabre, you are certain that the enemy would train acceptably.
If you threw the sabre at the enemy you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train acceptably.

[Roundtime: 10 seconds]

Black leucros teach me pretty badly. Without any khri this happens all the time though:

You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

HR>
The black leucro searches around for a moment.
A giant black leucro has spotted you!
The black leucro discovers you, ruining your hiding place!

With ambush stun one leucro I missed the first time then I could hit it. A second leucro I missed 5 times in a row and it killed my balance. Even when I succeeded it said I failed to surprise it. If I go to rock guardians which teach me better I can barely hide at all at melee without khri and they app like this:

You are certain that the rock guardian is healthy.
You are certain that the rock guardian is slightly fatigued.
You are certain that it is about as strong as you are.
You are certain that it is about as agile as you are.
You are certain that it is rather less disciplined than you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is rather less conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a small shield and a sabre, you are certain that the rock guardian is a difficult opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a sabre, you are certain that the rock guardian is a simple opponent.
If you attacked with a sabre, you are certain that the enemy would train rather well.
If you threw the sabre at the enemy you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train rather well.

[Roundtime: 10 seconds]

When I am able to hide I can't ambush stun them at all it seems. Using ambush screen I still can't hide on them and it doesn't seem to affect them either.:

Spinning your arm around your body in practiced circles, you throw clouds of dirt up into the air!
The rock guardian is enveloped in swirling brown dirt!
Dirt flies toward the rock guardian's eyes, but doesn't seem to cause any harm.
The rock guardian is enveloped in swirling brown dirt!
Dirt flies toward the rock guardian's eyes, but doesn't seem to cause any harm.
You take advantage of the general confusion and try to slip into a hiding place.
The rock guardian catches you as you try to vanish!
The rock guardian discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
Roundtime: 6 sec.

Even if I do hide using screen they search me out right away:

Spinning your arm around your body in practiced circles, you throw clouds of dirt up into the air!
The rock guardian manages to back out of the way of the expanding cloud of dirt!
The rock guardian is enveloped in swirling brown dirt!
Dirt flies toward the rock guardian's eyes, but doesn't seem to cause any harm.
The rock guardian is enveloped in swirling brown dirt!
Dirt flies toward the rock guardian's eyes, but doesn't seem to cause any harm.
You take advantage of the general confusion and try to slip into a hiding place.
You are fairly confident that your attempt to vanish was not noticed.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

HR>
A rock guardian gingerly picks through the area looking for something.
A rock guardian has spotted you!
The rock guardian discovers you, ruining your hiding place!

Sslad, you have pretty crap ranks in magic. Khri are powered by magic. No, there's nothing you can do about this, it's the grandfathering. Ergo till you get at-level ranks in magic (certainly more than 100 at 50th) your magic is going to suck.

It would be nice if we could get a mechanic in test to bump magic ranks up in 5-10 rank intervals to test that. It's pretty pointless to test at the lowest possible efficacy, since everyone is going to log in, complain how khri suck and don't work, fail everything they try, and quit.

>>Since Ambushes also use concentration

That is going to be a problem....How can a thief even a high lvl one run all the Khri necessary (including stop x, start y, switch to something esle etc>) and have contentration to Ambuish successfully?

>That is going to be a problem....How can a thief even a high lvl one run all the Khri necessary (including stop x, start y, switch to something esle etc>) and have contentration to Ambuish successfully?

With a 90th level thief I didnt have any problems with it. For day to day hunting I dont absolutely need a lot of khri running, so I always had spare concentration.

Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

As an aside, it might make sense for Kodius to allow Thieves (and barbarians?) to get the appraisal line on debilitations at this point, especially for training assessment purposes.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>That if your hunting at lvl = Dead.

I hunt at level all the time without buffs and never die. Maybe something else is going on where if you need buffs you're dying all the time? It's possible that you're hunting over your head with buffs, which is fine, but that wouldn't be at level.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>I would be very, very surprised to see this continue to be the case in 3.1, but if it is, rock on

If it's not, woe to the traders.

>90 is barely even mid-level and if you do that you wont be learning anything in your supernaturals and eventually setting up your character for required backtraining.

Where 90th lvl sits in the character scale wasnt the point, and yes the exp gaining wasnt huge. However even running at half capacity I was able to keep both Util and Aug skills at +2/34 nearly indefinitely in or out of combat means I wont have to sit around back-training. It is easier to train out of combat, since you can use the prone Concentration Regen boost to full effect. Of course debil is an odd man out here, but again I had enough concentration to ambush two or three times per critter and not run my Concentration pool into the ground.

Now I am not saying Khri pulse costs dont need work, I am saying that I was able to manage them well enough to not cause me any problems in day to day hunting.

Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

>Where 90th lvl sits in the character scale wasn't the point,

It was my point.

>running at half capacity I was able to keep both Util and Aug skills at +2/34 nearly indefinitely in or out of combat...

I'm saying that exactly what you describe there isn't working at higher circles.

That makes two of us.