Second this request. Please give us something halfway decent to work with.

Rejik

Give us usable sling ammo, now.

---

Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him. --Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince"

>bump

Just another friendly request to our boys and girls in Red that sling ammo become a bit more upscale than just some rocks.

I mean seriously. The appraisal for corals -
You are certain that it could do:
no puncture damage
no slice damage
fair impact damage

That isn't ammo. Thats a disgrace which is even sadder as corals are some of the best ammo available for slings. Throw us a bone here...

___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

You might try those strapped rucksacks from Boar clan. I love them for hauling around a pyramid and a halberd. Of course I can't tie/untie while engaged at melee, but a quick retreat retreat (or drop since I use a critter-dropped halberd) works. You'll need a Ranger to buy the rucksack for you.

~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
Keeper of the CEC
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

Rather than merely upscale the ammo, it would be better to make the ammo do something special, like set fires with naptha bombs, inhibit agility with honey pots, etc. Let's have some fun with it, rather than just kill faster.

First ammo type that I've tested is the "old' corals and used a staff sling. Why staff sling? Easy. There are a plethora of available slings out there, ranging from store bought, to fest, to player created. I could be wrong though god knows I call myself looking, could not recall there ever being a fest staff sling and they are at present not craft-able by players.

I did the testing with bristleback peccaries in Therengia, with 250 ranks of staff sling. I danced eagle and got full aim each time with 50 agility. Instead of doing x number of shots, I went for x number of creatures. Now granted it wasn't a huge number of them, and I do intend to do more testing later on I believe that this was a fairly accurate picture of the power of slings...or lack thereof as shown after the sling test with fairly equal (258) ranks of longbow.

Coral Type2 Old:
You are certain that it could do:
no puncture damage
no slice damage
fair impact damage

You are certain that the rounded corals are extremely weak, and are in pristine condition.

A staff sling is a staff sling type weapon.

You are certain that the sling is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the staff sling is of average strength, and is in pristine condition.


Peccary One:
Strong Hit
Good Hit
Solid hit
Strong Hit - Stun
Strong Hit
Heavy Hit
Hard Hit
Heavy Hit - Dead peccary

Peccary Two:
Good Hit
Light Hit
Strong Hit
Solid Hit
Hard Hit
Hard Hit - Stun
Solid Hit
Heavy Hit - Stun
Good Hit - Stun
Very Heavy Hit - Stun
Massive Hit - Dead peccary

Peccary Three:
Good Hit
Heavy Hit
Heavy Hit
Very Heavy Hit - Stun
Strong Hit
Heavy Hit - Stun
Strong Hit
Massive Hit - Dead peccary

Peccary four:
hard hit
hard hit
hard hit - stun
strong hit
strong hit
heavy hit - stun
massive hit - dead pecc

Peccary five:
Brushing hit
Strong hit
strong hit
hard hit
strong hit
heavy hit - stun
hard hit - stun
strong hit - dead peccary

So here we have a basic hunt of five bristlebacks and of the five it took an average of 8.4 hits a peccary for a kill.

Now this is opposed to and why the majority of sling users are unhappy with slings in comparison to other player crafted ranged weapons.

Longbow test. Copperwood Longbow - well balanced/well suited. Arrows - heavy puncture, fair slice, moderate impact.

Peccary One:
You fire a snow white arrow at a bristle-backed peccary. A bristle-backed peccary attempts to evade. The arrow lands an apocalyptic strike (So that's what it felt like when Grazhir shattered!) that rips through muscle and organs, cutting the foe cleanly in half.
dead pecc

Peccary Two:
< You fire a snow white arrow at a bristle-backed peccary. A bristle-backed peccary attempts to dodge. The arrow lands a spine-rattling strike that pierces clean through the abdomen and out the back (Shiskabob!).
Dead pecc

Peccary Three:
You fire a snow white arrow at a bristle-backed peccary. A bristle-backed peccary fails to evade. The arrow lands a devastating hit (That'll leave a mark!) that shoves the arrow clean through the mouth and out the back of the head (Say 'ah'!).
Dead Pecc.

Just a wee bit of a difference. Now I'm not asking for sling bullets to be on the same tier of damage as arrows. But having them have a bit of mid range moderate damage ain't asking for over much.

___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

On the topic of ammo for slings I'd love to see combustible types of ammo. Like those joke golf balls which explode when you attempt to swing. The difference would be that your home made pellets/bullets/whatever would contain some kind of blinding agent or perhaps a poison/toxin to paralyze or stun upon exploding at contact.

Would definitely give slings a cool niche in the weapon selection environment.


-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

I believe I addressed that In my post. As I stated there and before and will again, I do not expect slings nor their loads to be on par with that of bows and arrows.

I would however ask that some work be done to them to make them at least a viable hunting weapon. As of right now I don't believe that is the case.

That said I have not completed the testing of sling ammo and have gathered four or five types in which to try including the new corals, small rocks, large rocks, and smooth river rocks. If anyone else has any other ammo types that they would like to supply to me for the duration of the testing I'd appreciate it and see that it is returned when I am done (Please, given the issue of lodging supply around 10).

After I get finished with staff sling I will turn my attention to 'store quality' slings and then to my player created sling (which I know from experience appraises just slightly better than store bought.

I know Oolan has made some changes to sling ammo and before I get back on my pedestal for the slinger crusade I want to do enough testing where I can state x y and z does or does not work.

___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

>>I know Oolan has made some changes to sling ammo and before I get back on my pedestal for the slinger crusade I want to do enough testing where I can state x y and z does or does not work.

Actually, I haven't made any changes at all to slings or their ammo yet. What I did do was research the problem a bit and find that the large rocks are not the "best" ammunition to be using and relayed that fact to you the players so that you can hopefully get at least a bit better performance out of slings until I can address the situation better.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.

I'll simply point at the post above this one and say, he got it and I'm not sure why you didn't.

However, since you asked for it I'll make my way down to the bow shop here in Therengia and purchase said longbow and said arrows and post the results here shortly.


___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

Longbow:

A common longbow is a long bow type weapon.

You are certain that the longbow is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the common longbow is extremely weak, and is in pristine condition.

Same appraisal as the staff sling on balance and suit to strength

Arrows:
Some arrows -
You are certain that it could do:
moderate puncture damage
poor slice damage
poor impact damage

You are certain that the arrows are extremely weak, and are in pristine condition.

Comparison of ammo -
You are certain that the rounded corals is about as strong as the arrows.
You are certain that the rounded corals does a lot less puncture damage than the arrows.
You are certain that the rounded corals does about as much slice damage as the arrows.
You are certain that the rounded corals does more impact damage than the arrows.
You think it is likely that the rounded corals weighs a lot more than the arrows.

Comparison of weapon -
You are certain that the common longbow is a little more balanced than the staff sling.
You are certain that the common longbow is about as suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength as the staff sling.
You guess that the common longbow weighs less than the staff sling.


Same setup as before. Dancing Eagle. Agility 50. Full aim. Creature tested is bristleback peccary.

Peccary One:
Strong Hit
Very Heavy Hit - Stun
Massive Hit - Stun
Massive Hit - Dead

Peccary Two:
Heavy Hit
Massive Hit - Stun
Powerful Strike - Dead

Peccary Three:
Heavy Strike
Very Heavy - Stun
Extremely Heavy - Stun
Massive Stike - Dead

Peccary Four:
Strong Hit
Extremely Heavy - Stun
Very Heavy Hit - Stun
Powerful Hit- Dead

Average shots used per peccary with store grade arrows costing 15 copper apiece - 3.75

Average shots used per peccary with fest obtained corals costing a 10000 copper apiece - 8.4

More testing to follow when we are stopped for the weekend.
___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

No offense taken.

>>Are you saying that using different ammo would only help out people who have higher ranks in sling, or it would help all sling users but the best testers would be those with more sling ranks?

>>The latter. Testing on rats and goblins is not at all likely to reveal much of anything when it comes to trying to compare two similiar items. Someone with 100+ ranks would be much more likely to better notice the differences. - GM Oolan.

If there is an ammo type out there that is better, then I'd really like to figure out what the best type of sling ammo there is so that both myself and any other that uses sling. To go along with that, I would like to be able to compare what the 'best' ammo available to us to with slings and then do a comparative analysis on sling vs staff sling with that ammo type, sling vs. player created sling, and finally sling vs. other ranged weapons.

Once again, I'm not on a make sling as good as bows kick. I don't expect nor have hope that that'll happen. To make it so in my opinion is stupid, and is counter to my belief that weapons are there to be used because you like them not because they are the end all beat all.

That said, in a nut shell, I was asked by others to go out and test out sling ammo so I am.
___
~Ternith Sjomah

Land of the Bear and Land of the Eagle. Land that gave us birth and blessing. Land that pulled us ever homeward. We will go home across the mountains. Hear our singing, hear our longing. We will go home across the mountains.

I'm pretty sure Raging is the only one with Slings and Staff Slings over 300. Reyn might also. Most people don't bother with it, even with 24/7 scripting, because its so impossible to train.

GENT

>>Please do some research first;

If set two people in a room 20 feet apart, gave one a sling and the other a bow, the person with a bow would win.


Player of Gilart
Everything written by this poster is non-guaranteed, use or accept at your own risk. All information is accessed from posters limited brain power unless log is provided.

>If there is an ammo type out there that is better, then I'd really like to figure out what the best type of sling ammo there is so that both myself and any other that uses sling.

I'm telling you, try small rocks. They were noticeably better in a stonebow.

>>Perhaps, but would even a carefully orchestrated test make slings look good?

And since I know the answer to that and you know the answer to that and everyone else knows the answer to that, what's the point of the test? The testing I suggested was comparing the sling ammunitions against one another to determine which actually happens to work best in comparison to each other. Any and all tests comparing them against any other class of weapon is merely an academic pursuit of knowledge. I already know how the results will pan out as well as if not better than any of you. However, I'm not going to rush out and change numbers on anything until I have a solid plan of action to present to my bosses. I have an eventual goal of all weapon categories having a use, but that will have to be a long term goal which I'll proceed towards slowly.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.

>And since I know the answer to that and you know the answer to that and everyone else knows the answer to that, what's the point of the test? The testing I suggested was comparing the sling ammunitions against one another to determine which actually happens to work best in comparison to each other.

Sorry Oolan, not trying to give you a hard time, I just enjoy making fun of slings. I did run the test you suggested, and posted the results awhile back. My conclusion was that small rocks were the ammo to use.

>>I just don't think its as one-sided as you assume.
Cool, well I don't want to spend a bunch of time arguing the point. The main point behind my initial response was the ability to own someone with a sucky weapon.


Player of Gilart
Everything written by this poster is non-guaranteed, use or accept at your own risk. All information is accessed from posters limited brain power unless log is provided.

>But in actual tests, a drawn knife within 10 feet of a holstered gun, the knife almost always won.

More like 20 feet. And the test subjects using the gun were experienced law enforcement agents. Only the very heaviest and slowest of knife-wielders were not able to close the distance quickly enough to get the first strike.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Ruea says, "I swear, I'm forsaking Damaris and building an altar to you."

<<If there is an ammo type out there that is better, then I'd really like to figure out what the best type of sling ammo there is so that both myself and any other that uses sling. To go along with that, I would like to be able to compare what the 'best' ammo available to us to with slings and then do a comparative analysis on sling vs staff sling with that ammo type, sling vs. player created sling, and finally sling vs. other ranged weapons.>>

I would be interested in the smooth river rocks vs. the corals. In the test I did I found the smooth river rocks to be way better than the large rocks, and slightly better than the small rocks. I don't have access to corals though or I would definately give it a swing.

Also I am interested in the staff sling vs sling scenario, right now my ranks are 20+ apart though. I would assume staff sling should do more damage but I know they both are pretty awful as I've seen.

Also Ternith, who makes player made slings? Can anyone make them? I would be interested in purchasing one if possible.

<<Remove the need to aim with slings. Give the full bonus for an unaimed shot. Or at least very drastically decrease the duration until full aim for slings.

Will this fix slings? Probably not. Will it make slings somewhat more viable? Absolutely.>>

I think this is an excellent idea that probably (maybe) be put in pretty quick. And definately wouldn't make them anywhere near overpowered still.


One other thing I am curious about....Doesn't lodged ammo cause extra damage? I thought so, but when I tested the small rocks (lodging) to the smooth river rocks (non-lodging) I expected the small rocks to kill quicker from the extra damage from the rocks being lodged. (if indeed, both types of ammo are extactly the same) However this was not the case and the river rocks beat out the small rocks every time (even if sightly)
So that may be another thing too look into Oolan.

If lodged weapons don't do extra damage and I am dreaming, excuse my ignorance.






Inner peace, through outer violence.
Experts: http://www.robsonforensic.com