Previous
We have just rolled out a change to locksmithing experience. Previously, the system awarded more experience than desired for failed locksmithing attempts, encouraging players to engage with the locksmithing system by using "pet boxes."
No other system rewards failure so generously. It is not intended that deliberate failure be a viable -- much less optimal -- training method.
Accordingly, if you fail to pick a box that grossly outclasses your skill level, you will no longer gain experience. (If you successfully pick an exceptionally difficult box, you will still gain bonus experience for doing so, though the bonus won't be as generous as before.)
For all other boxes, if you fail to pick them, you will gain only a tiny fraction of the experience you would have gained if you had successfully picked the box.
These changes are now live in all instances. We will be monitoring and may make further tweaks as necessary.
GM Cordulia
DR-CORDULIA
SAUVA
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 06:36 AM CST
Does this change also address the critical fumble chance for high level boxes? I never liked the idea of pet boxes, but at high levels, even as careful as I can be and as bonused as I can make my character, when I'm picking a box that is moderately dangerous (7: You think this trap is precisely at your skill level, or less) if I blow the box, I'm dead. The exploding trap and the shock trap are instantly lethal.
As you guys were addressing exp inconsistencies did the critical fumble/instant lethality bug get fixed too?
~Hunter Hanryu
>I would like to avoid the collection of broken dreams and sorrow that is the Ranger guild.~Agalea
As you guys were addressing exp inconsistencies did the critical fumble/instant lethality bug get fixed too?
~Hunter Hanryu
>I would like to avoid the collection of broken dreams and sorrow that is the Ranger guild.~Agalea
BLAYLOSW
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 07:10 AM CST
to be constructive. for non thieves popping boxes is a dangerous exercise.... Plus scarcity of creatures that drop lots of boxes. Under the present system how would you suggest a paladin train locksmithing? Having someone teach you locksmithing isnt a good way of training. B&E isnt viable?
DR-KOROR
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 08:06 AM CST
You can still train on at a very generous range of at level boxes. If you do not want to procure at locksmithing level boxes yourself you may purchase them from other players.
As a consideration, how do paladins train stealth? Presumably not on the same creatures that train shield, right? How players train is up to them, but locksmithing is still trainable for everyone.
BLAYLOSW
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 11:51 AM CST
sub 200 and locked to Zoluren, where are these creatures generous with boxes? Perhaps water sprites? but I wouldnt call them generous. Hell until xalas, I can think of something that is generous with boxes in Zoluren.
RCHIGHT
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 02:00 PM CST
>> Hell until xalas, I can think of something that is generous with boxes in Zoluren.
Forest Geni's are VERY generous. Then move to Cave Trolls, not as generous. However it is quite doable. I used Zoluren found boxes until I moved out to M'Riss (trekhalos), which I understand you can't do. But there are good options available.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Forest Geni's are VERY generous. Then move to Cave Trolls, not as generous. However it is quite doable. I used Zoluren found boxes until I moved out to M'Riss (trekhalos), which I understand you can't do. But there are good options available.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
MSMITH0163
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 02:58 PM CST
This change was:
- Poorly communicated
- Inconsistent with recent strategy (BNE, 3 skills for free, 0 risk)
- Inconsistent with historical strategy (pet boxes in-game for decades)
- Inconsistent with other risk-free training that currently exists (zills, sanowret)
Unlike BNE, zills, and sanowret, all of which will train you thousands of ranks with 0 risk, 0 consumable needed, and 0 time to acquire the items needed...pet boxes required:
- Time to train (proportional for how over-leveled the box was relative to your locksmithing skill)
- Time to acquire (someone has to hunt those boxes)
- Are consumed over time. More boxes have to be acquired over time, which requires more effort on behalf of someone, and more time to train.
Let's at least call this what it is. Clearly, 100% a cash grab, under the guise of "it never should have been that way". Their MT locksmithing trainers weren't selling well, because there was an in-game option that players had adjusted to. Color me shocked when locksmithing trainers are at the next MT event.
- Poorly communicated
- Inconsistent with recent strategy (BNE, 3 skills for free, 0 risk)
- Inconsistent with historical strategy (pet boxes in-game for decades)
- Inconsistent with other risk-free training that currently exists (zills, sanowret)
Unlike BNE, zills, and sanowret, all of which will train you thousands of ranks with 0 risk, 0 consumable needed, and 0 time to acquire the items needed...pet boxes required:
- Time to train (proportional for how over-leveled the box was relative to your locksmithing skill)
- Time to acquire (someone has to hunt those boxes)
- Are consumed over time. More boxes have to be acquired over time, which requires more effort on behalf of someone, and more time to train.
Let's at least call this what it is. Clearly, 100% a cash grab, under the guise of "it never should have been that way". Their MT locksmithing trainers weren't selling well, because there was an in-game option that players had adjusted to. Color me shocked when locksmithing trainers are at the next MT event.
LESLIEC
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 03:06 PM CST
Is the drop rate of boxes going to be looked at? Currently I hunt Zombies if I want to get some boxes to pick and gain some good coin, but they're very sporadic. Sometimes I hunt for 2-3 hours and not get a box. And other times I go in and get boxes immediately, and lots of them.
I'm a ranger and while it's not a requirement to get locksmithing every circle it does count toward the average in survival skills and some rangers do have locksmithing in their top 2-3 survival, which means they have to have locksmithing in order to circle.
Bluefalcon
I'm a ranger and while it's not a requirement to get locksmithing every circle it does count toward the average in survival skills and some rangers do have locksmithing in their top 2-3 survival, which means they have to have locksmithing in order to circle.
Bluefalcon
DR-CORDULIA
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 05:56 PM CST
>>SAUVA: Does this change also address the critical fumble chance for high level boxes? I never liked the idea of pet boxes, but at high levels, even as careful as I can be and as bonused as I can make my character, when I'm picking a box that is moderately dangerous (7: You think this trap is precisely at your skill level, or less) if I blow the box, I'm dead. The exploding trap and the shock trap are instantly lethal.
>>As you guys were addressing exp inconsistencies did the critical fumble/instant lethality bug get fixed too?
Disarming was not touched at all.
For picking, we did not adjust the success rate of opening a box, the difficulty modifiers (pick blind, wearing armor, etc.), or the experience awarded for successfully picking at-level boxes. We only adjusted the experience award for:
1. failing to pick a box: this now grants little to no experience
2. critical success on an exceptionally difficult box (when you "accidentally" open a box that grossly outclasses you): reduction in the bonus experience only (the core experience award remains the same)
>>BLAYLOSW: to be constructive. for non thieves popping boxes is a dangerous exercise.... Plus scarcity of creatures that drop lots of boxes. Under the present system how would you suggest a paladin train locksmithing? Having someone teach you locksmithing isnt a good way of training. B&E isnt viable?
Paladins (and anyone who doesn't want to burgle for RP reasons) who want to train locksmithing should pick at-level boxes. Locksmithing trainers are also an alternative, although we want subscribers to have the option of progressing up the locksmithing ladder (and indeed all training ladders) on their own, without the use of quest prizes.
>>LESLIEC: Is the drop rate of boxes going to be looked at?
We don't currently have any plans to adjust the drop rate for boxes. That being said, if there are any particular creatures that seem to be dropping too few boxes, let us know.
>>Sometimes I hunt for 2-3 hours and not get a box. And other times I go in and get boxes immediately, and lots of them.
The odds that a given creature will drop a box do not fluctuate. If you aren't seeing any boxes in 2-3 hours as a subscriber, it is possible that either other players or the janitor might be picking up your boxes.
>>MSMITH0163: - Inconsistent with historical strategy (pet boxes in-game for decades)
The fact that something has been broken for a long time is not a compelling reason to leave it broken.
>>Inconsistent with other risk-free training that currently exists (zills, sanowret)
Not all skills are intended to involve risk or consumables, but generally combat skills and combat-adjacent skills (skills that are trained from resources gathered in combat) are intended to have some element of risk, even if it can be mitigated by player skill.
>>Time to train
It had been observed that pet boxes allowed players to rapidly train locksmithing with zero risk and no cooldown, far faster than engaging with the system as intended (by training on at-level boxes) -- even in combat.
>>proportional for how over-leveled the box was relative to your locksmithing skill
That highlights what was wrong with the "pet box" paradigm: the system not only rewarded deliberate failure, but it made handicapping yourself as much as possible (picking blindly with shoddy lockpicks while wearing armor) the optimal technique. No other system rewards failure so generously.
>>Let's at least call this what it is. Clearly, 100% a cash grab, under the guise of "it never should have been that way". Their MT locksmithing trainers weren't selling well, because there was an in-game option that players had adjusted to.
I understand that players often view unpopular changes through that lens. However, if our goal were to encourage people to buy locksmithing trainers, we wouldn't have released breaking and entering.
GM Cordulia
>>As you guys were addressing exp inconsistencies did the critical fumble/instant lethality bug get fixed too?
Disarming was not touched at all.
For picking, we did not adjust the success rate of opening a box, the difficulty modifiers (pick blind, wearing armor, etc.), or the experience awarded for successfully picking at-level boxes. We only adjusted the experience award for:
1. failing to pick a box: this now grants little to no experience
2. critical success on an exceptionally difficult box (when you "accidentally" open a box that grossly outclasses you): reduction in the bonus experience only (the core experience award remains the same)
>>BLAYLOSW: to be constructive. for non thieves popping boxes is a dangerous exercise.... Plus scarcity of creatures that drop lots of boxes. Under the present system how would you suggest a paladin train locksmithing? Having someone teach you locksmithing isnt a good way of training. B&E isnt viable?
Paladins (and anyone who doesn't want to burgle for RP reasons) who want to train locksmithing should pick at-level boxes. Locksmithing trainers are also an alternative, although we want subscribers to have the option of progressing up the locksmithing ladder (and indeed all training ladders) on their own, without the use of quest prizes.
>>LESLIEC: Is the drop rate of boxes going to be looked at?
We don't currently have any plans to adjust the drop rate for boxes. That being said, if there are any particular creatures that seem to be dropping too few boxes, let us know.
>>Sometimes I hunt for 2-3 hours and not get a box. And other times I go in and get boxes immediately, and lots of them.
The odds that a given creature will drop a box do not fluctuate. If you aren't seeing any boxes in 2-3 hours as a subscriber, it is possible that either other players or the janitor might be picking up your boxes.
>>MSMITH0163: - Inconsistent with historical strategy (pet boxes in-game for decades)
The fact that something has been broken for a long time is not a compelling reason to leave it broken.
>>Inconsistent with other risk-free training that currently exists (zills, sanowret)
Not all skills are intended to involve risk or consumables, but generally combat skills and combat-adjacent skills (skills that are trained from resources gathered in combat) are intended to have some element of risk, even if it can be mitigated by player skill.
>>Time to train
It had been observed that pet boxes allowed players to rapidly train locksmithing with zero risk and no cooldown, far faster than engaging with the system as intended (by training on at-level boxes) -- even in combat.
>>proportional for how over-leveled the box was relative to your locksmithing skill
That highlights what was wrong with the "pet box" paradigm: the system not only rewarded deliberate failure, but it made handicapping yourself as much as possible (picking blindly with shoddy lockpicks while wearing armor) the optimal technique. No other system rewards failure so generously.
>>Let's at least call this what it is. Clearly, 100% a cash grab, under the guise of "it never should have been that way". Their MT locksmithing trainers weren't selling well, because there was an in-game option that players had adjusted to.
I understand that players often view unpopular changes through that lens. However, if our goal were to encourage people to buy locksmithing trainers, we wouldn't have released breaking and entering.
GM Cordulia
MSMITH0163
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 06:13 PM CST
>>However, if our goal were to encourage people to buy locksmithing trainers, we wouldn't have released breaking and entering.
Given that BNE was released, with the easy means of training locksmithing, why was there the compelled need to change pet boxes at the same time?
Us: "Hey, let's make locksmithing training REALLY easy! Instant 17/34, no RT."
Also Us: "Let's also remove the ability to train locksmithing easily! Who cares if there are long RT's and consumables needed, this has to go!"
From the outside looking in, those two recent decisions seem to be diametrically opposed with neither rhyme nor reason.
Given that BNE was released, with the easy means of training locksmithing, why was there the compelled need to change pet boxes at the same time?
Us: "Hey, let's make locksmithing training REALLY easy! Instant 17/34, no RT."
Also Us: "Let's also remove the ability to train locksmithing easily! Who cares if there are long RT's and consumables needed, this has to go!"
From the outside looking in, those two recent decisions seem to be diametrically opposed with neither rhyme nor reason.
DR-CORDULIA
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 06:33 PM CST
>>MSMITH0163: Given that BNE was released, with the easy means of training locksmithing, why was there the compelled need to change pet boxes at the same time?
This fix was not deliberately planned to coincide with breaking and entering; it just worked out that way.
>>"Hey, let's make locksmithing training REALLY easy! Instant 17/34, no RT."
There is a cooldown.
GM Cordulia
This fix was not deliberately planned to coincide with breaking and entering; it just worked out that way.
>>"Hey, let's make locksmithing training REALLY easy! Instant 17/34, no RT."
There is a cooldown.
GM Cordulia
ACIDICSNAIL
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 06:49 PM CST
I like this change. Intentionally failing to pick open a box that is vastly above your skill range shouldn't be the go-to way to train the skill. Just like skinning, or evasion, or any other skill that depends on combat in some way, the ideal way to train should be versus an appropriately skilled challenge.
Now, if the issue is that mobs across the board are not dropping enough boxes for locksmithing to be adequately trained at-level, then that should be the discussion point.
Along a similar line of thought, I hope the meta of keeping 'pet bleeders' for first aid experience is also axed sometime in the future, because intentionally going out of the way to be wounded and maintain the same wound for training purposes is rather silly.
Now, if the issue is that mobs across the board are not dropping enough boxes for locksmithing to be adequately trained at-level, then that should be the discussion point.
Along a similar line of thought, I hope the meta of keeping 'pet bleeders' for first aid experience is also axed sometime in the future, because intentionally going out of the way to be wounded and maintain the same wound for training purposes is rather silly.
VAGELO
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
02/29/2020 11:59 PM CST
All the various zombies in boar clan used to give out an insane amount of boxes once upon a time, but the drop rate was extremely reduced a few years ago. There are times I can also hunt for 3 hours and walk out with maybe 2 boxes. This happens far more often than walking out with a large amount of boxes in the same time frame. I think the drop rate was thrown too far in the opposite direction because of how it was being abused with the old training method. With the new changes, I think the zombies could surely use a review.
-Master Ndin
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Ndin
-Master Ndin
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Ndin
SHIFT3
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
03/01/2020 11:53 AM CST
Who was this change for, how does it benefit the game, and why now all of the sudden?
NIKPACK
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
03/01/2020 10:21 PM CST
Not a GM, but this is why I think it was done.
<<Who was this change for.
Everyone as it provides ...
<<how does it benefit the game
Game balance and progression. Free skills dilutes the game.
<<Why now all of the sudden?
Because it was done and out of QC. I prefer things be released when they're done and not artificially sat on regardless of the implications.
I like this fix. (Hyperbole) Pet boxes always felt to me like going into hunt moths with a fresh out of the generator character and learning forever.
Nikpack
<<Who was this change for.
Everyone as it provides ...
<<how does it benefit the game
Game balance and progression. Free skills dilutes the game.
<<Why now all of the sudden?
Because it was done and out of QC. I prefer things be released when they're done and not artificially sat on regardless of the implications.
I like this fix. (Hyperbole) Pet boxes always felt to me like going into hunt moths with a fresh out of the generator character and learning forever.
Nikpack
DR-CORDULIA
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
03/01/2020 11:16 PM CST
>>SHIFT3: Who was this change for, how does it benefit the game
We view game balance as being in the best interest of the game as a whole. This is why we may make periodic fixes even if players would have preferred having them broken.
>>why now all of the sudden?
It was an identified issue with a quick fix. (As I mentioned earlier, we don't consider the fact that something has been broken for a long time to be a compelling reason to leave it broken.)
GM Cordulia
We view game balance as being in the best interest of the game as a whole. This is why we may make periodic fixes even if players would have preferred having them broken.
>>why now all of the sudden?
It was an identified issue with a quick fix. (As I mentioned earlier, we don't consider the fact that something has been broken for a long time to be a compelling reason to leave it broken.)
GM Cordulia
LESLIEC
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
03/02/2020 09:42 AM CST
<<We don't currently have any plans to adjust the drop rate for boxes. That being said, if there are any particular creatures that seem to be dropping too few boxes, let us know.>>
Should we post here for the box drop rate? Or in the appropriate critter hunting folder?
AERATHOR
Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 04:31 PM CST
I am confused at this. You just released Burgle which is so messed up beyond recognition and then you decide to nerf pet boxes? I remember when the changes to music happened and everyone who had ranks from hum had them removed. You then let everyone in the game Use Worn zills to train without any effort while simultaneously destroying immersion.
>>No other system rewards failure so generously.
What about climbing? What about Breaking and entering? What about missing with weapon attacks? There are more systems that DO train from failure than don't. I can fail two searches doing break and entering and still keep my Stealth, Locksmithing and Thievery going non stop on a new character who can barely pick a troll box or climb a tree. But that is as intended?
Personally I don't believe for one second its not economic determinism. Its leaning towards the pay to win models and you want to remove anything in the game that competes with the locksmith training boxes.
But aside from the obvious reasons that making this change was a face palm move, I have to say overall it makes whoever runs Simutronics look confused. What brought on this change when there are countless other glaring inconsistencies from your policy to the Games Rating.
I mean shouldn't we spend time fixing real issues? Like how this game is rated Teen, but has Entheogen fueled research(which when I suggested adding oshu'mary to game years ago on the forums and I was told then firmly no because it was a family game), burglary, people sacrificing themselves on altars to demons etc etc etc...
Look at the EXP models with magic. You have debilitation training so far below every other category of spell in the game but whenever it gets mentioned its "aligned across all spells". You cast one DMRS and it gets me 2-3/34 from ONE cast. Mind shout is on a cool down and even if you Cap it and cast you will never get past 1/34 on exp for debilitation.
There are so many glaring examples of inconsistent things in the game it does make you wonder when you see changes like this made.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
>>No other system rewards failure so generously.
What about climbing? What about Breaking and entering? What about missing with weapon attacks? There are more systems that DO train from failure than don't. I can fail two searches doing break and entering and still keep my Stealth, Locksmithing and Thievery going non stop on a new character who can barely pick a troll box or climb a tree. But that is as intended?
Personally I don't believe for one second its not economic determinism. Its leaning towards the pay to win models and you want to remove anything in the game that competes with the locksmith training boxes.
But aside from the obvious reasons that making this change was a face palm move, I have to say overall it makes whoever runs Simutronics look confused. What brought on this change when there are countless other glaring inconsistencies from your policy to the Games Rating.
I mean shouldn't we spend time fixing real issues? Like how this game is rated Teen, but has Entheogen fueled research(which when I suggested adding oshu'mary to game years ago on the forums and I was told then firmly no because it was a family game), burglary, people sacrificing themselves on altars to demons etc etc etc...
Look at the EXP models with magic. You have debilitation training so far below every other category of spell in the game but whenever it gets mentioned its "aligned across all spells". You cast one DMRS and it gets me 2-3/34 from ONE cast. Mind shout is on a cool down and even if you Cap it and cast you will never get past 1/34 on exp for debilitation.
There are so many glaring examples of inconsistent things in the game it does make you wonder when you see changes like this made.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GRIM45
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 05:27 PM CST
>What about climbing? What about Breaking and entering? What about missing with weapon attacks? There are more systems that DO train from failure than don't.
I think you missed the so generously part.
> Personally I don't believe for one second its not economic determinism. Its leaning towards the pay to win models and you want to remove anything in the game that competes with the locksmith training boxes.
But BNE isn't part of MT/Pay to win...And you just commented that it can be used to keep those skills moving, + locksmithing trainers (limited use) are loot from BNE (still not MT/P2W).
So which is it?
> I mean shouldn't we spend time fixing real issues? Like how this game is rated Teen, but has Entheogen fueled research(which when I suggested adding oshu'mary to game years ago on the forums and I was told then firmly no because it was a family game), burglary, people sacrificing themselves on altars to demons etc etc etc...
K?
>Aerathor's entire post summed up:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
I think you missed the so generously part.
> Personally I don't believe for one second its not economic determinism. Its leaning towards the pay to win models and you want to remove anything in the game that competes with the locksmith training boxes.
But BNE isn't part of MT/Pay to win...And you just commented that it can be used to keep those skills moving, + locksmithing trainers (limited use) are loot from BNE (still not MT/P2W).
So which is it?
> I mean shouldn't we spend time fixing real issues? Like how this game is rated Teen, but has Entheogen fueled research(which when I suggested adding oshu'mary to game years ago on the forums and I was told then firmly no because it was a family game), burglary, people sacrificing themselves on altars to demons etc etc etc...
K?
>Aerathor's entire post summed up:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
CAELRIC
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 05:28 PM CST
>>What about missing with weapon attacks?
I thought you only got weapon experience on a successful attack, based on how much damage you did?
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 05:46 PM CST
>>I think you missed the so generously part.
No actually. It was not the only system that rewarded being inefficient. People running laps failing climbs lock athletics Very quickly. And wearing armor and carrying weapons to increase difficulty only gives you more experience.
>>But BNE isn't part of MT/Pay to win...And you just commented that it can be used to keep those skills moving, + locksmithing trainers (limited use) are loot from BNE (still not MT/P2W).
Since you require a justice zone to use Breaking And Entering it does not compete against Locksmith training boxes because people can use those anywhere in the wilds or even during combat. But pet boxes, you could use them anywhere. And so they were in competition with their Pay To Win Model. Also the reason that they gave about it being the only system that rewards failure was not at all accurate, which leads you to question more. If they can't be honest about the reason what can they be honest about?
>>So which is it?
Both Coach. Its part of their model to protect the locksmith training boxes and simultaneously a forehead slap move. I mean wait a month or two and the nerf bat will roll in for Breaking and Entering.
Also because of the timer constraints based on the sub type of the person performing the action, its also a Pay to win model.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
No actually. It was not the only system that rewarded being inefficient. People running laps failing climbs lock athletics Very quickly. And wearing armor and carrying weapons to increase difficulty only gives you more experience.
>>But BNE isn't part of MT/Pay to win...And you just commented that it can be used to keep those skills moving, + locksmithing trainers (limited use) are loot from BNE (still not MT/P2W).
Since you require a justice zone to use Breaking And Entering it does not compete against Locksmith training boxes because people can use those anywhere in the wilds or even during combat. But pet boxes, you could use them anywhere. And so they were in competition with their Pay To Win Model. Also the reason that they gave about it being the only system that rewards failure was not at all accurate, which leads you to question more. If they can't be honest about the reason what can they be honest about?
>>So which is it?
Both Coach. Its part of their model to protect the locksmith training boxes and simultaneously a forehead slap move. I mean wait a month or two and the nerf bat will roll in for Breaking and Entering.
Also because of the timer constraints based on the sub type of the person performing the action, its also a Pay to win model.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 05:47 PM CST
>>>>What about missing with weapon attacks?
No. You get experience for misses. Also you learn from Failing skinning for a large while before you actually can skin the critter your trying to.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
No. You get experience for misses. Also you learn from Failing skinning for a large while before you actually can skin the critter your trying to.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GRIM45
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:01 PM CST
>Since you require a justice zone to use Breaking And Entering it does not compete against Locksmith training boxes
Except, whoa, you get trainers from BNE.
>because people can use those anywhere in the wilds or even during combat.
Not sure what being in the wilds has to do with anything since everyone is at most like 15 seconds (maybe a bit of hyperbole, but for effect) from a justice zone.
>But pet boxes, you could use them anywhere. And so they were in competition with their Pay To Win Model.
Again, see: trainers from BNE. Also people only really used boxes in combat to make sure they didn't drop below 2/34.
>Also the reason that they gave about it being the only system that rewards failure was not at all accurate, which leads you to question more.
You keep dropping the so generously part.
>If they can't be honest about the reason what can they be honest about?
Hi kettle.
>No. You get experience for misses.
No.
>Also you learn from Failing skinning for a large while before you actually can skin the critter your trying to.
If you pretend you don't see the difference here, between a 1 time learning, vs repeatable action I'm not sure you should be casting aspersions about not being honest.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Except, whoa, you get trainers from BNE.
>because people can use those anywhere in the wilds or even during combat.
Not sure what being in the wilds has to do with anything since everyone is at most like 15 seconds (maybe a bit of hyperbole, but for effect) from a justice zone.
>But pet boxes, you could use them anywhere. And so they were in competition with their Pay To Win Model.
Again, see: trainers from BNE. Also people only really used boxes in combat to make sure they didn't drop below 2/34.
>Also the reason that they gave about it being the only system that rewards failure was not at all accurate, which leads you to question more.
You keep dropping the so generously part.
>If they can't be honest about the reason what can they be honest about?
Hi kettle.
>No. You get experience for misses.
No.
>Also you learn from Failing skinning for a large while before you actually can skin the critter your trying to.
If you pretend you don't see the difference here, between a 1 time learning, vs repeatable action I'm not sure you should be casting aspersions about not being honest.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:09 PM CST
>Again, see: trainers from BNE.
Wow swinging for the fence. You should step back and read forums more before you post on them. So you stop flinging false information around like a monkey tossing feces.
>>If you pretend you don't see the difference here, between a 1 time learning, vs repeatable action I'm not sure you should be casting aspersions about not being honest.
What are you even talking about? The fact an action is repeatable or not makes NO difference to the argument. Why even bring it up?
>>Hi kettle.
LOL?? What exactly am I not being honest about again? Truth hurts I guess.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Wow swinging for the fence. You should step back and read forums more before you post on them. So you stop flinging false information around like a monkey tossing feces.
>>If you pretend you don't see the difference here, between a 1 time learning, vs repeatable action I'm not sure you should be casting aspersions about not being honest.
What are you even talking about? The fact an action is repeatable or not makes NO difference to the argument. Why even bring it up?
>>Hi kettle.
LOL?? What exactly am I not being honest about again? Truth hurts I guess.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GRIM45
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:26 PM CST
>Wow swinging for the fence. You should step back and read forums more before you post on them. So you stop flinging false information around like a monkey tossing feces.
Maybe learn the system before you stick your own foot in your mouth:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Breaking_and_Entering/Bedroom_loot#Locksmithing_trainer
> What are you even talking about? The fact an action is repeatable or not makes NO difference to the argument. Why even bring it up?
You don't seem to understand how game balance works. The fact that you could walk around with a box that was impossible to pick (except for nat20) that taught to the degree it did, forever (until the nat20), was the problem. If the box stopped working on that failure, and couldn't be opened by anyone, I would bet that this would not have been changed.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Maybe learn the system before you stick your own foot in your mouth:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Breaking_and_Entering/Bedroom_loot#Locksmithing_trainer
> What are you even talking about? The fact an action is repeatable or not makes NO difference to the argument. Why even bring it up?
You don't seem to understand how game balance works. The fact that you could walk around with a box that was impossible to pick (except for nat20) that taught to the degree it did, forever (until the nat20), was the problem. If the box stopped working on that failure, and couldn't be opened by anyone, I would bet that this would not have been changed.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
DR-KOROR
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:44 PM CST
>>Maybe learn the system before you stick your own foot in your mouth:
The fact that breaking and entering rewards random loot from one room that might be a locksmith training box, with Limited uses, has nothing whatsoever to do with the arguments being brought forward.
>>You don't seem to understand how game balance works. The fact that you could walk around with a box that was impossible to pick (except for nat20) that taught to the degree it did, forever (until the nat20), was the problem. If the box stopped working on that failure, and couldn't be opened by anyone, I would bet that this would not have been changed.
I doubt I would have enough time in this life to help you get on my level of understanding...You keep using moot points and emoticons to fuel your argument.
For pity sake I'll try briefly. First it does not matter at all in any way shape or form how GOOD pet boxes trained because it is not a valid argument when you compare things like Climbing or Skinning. Second, because there are many examples that do the same thing they claimed Pet Boxes did, their reasoning is totally false, this raises the question what the Truth actually is. Third, breaking and entering is Pay to win as well because the cool down on the timer is based on your subscription type.
Last. Why do you keep tossing false information around like you actually KNOW when in fact you are assuming? YES you do learn from missing in combat. Yes this is a face palm move from a company who has countless glaring inconsistencies laying around. I could come on the forums and use a fake name, but I don't. I use my in game character name because it means something. I don't have to hide behind a tag name and get on the forums afraid of what I say, because I have integrity enough to stand by what I say and mean it.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
The fact that breaking and entering rewards random loot from one room that might be a locksmith training box, with Limited uses, has nothing whatsoever to do with the arguments being brought forward.
>>You don't seem to understand how game balance works. The fact that you could walk around with a box that was impossible to pick (except for nat20) that taught to the degree it did, forever (until the nat20), was the problem. If the box stopped working on that failure, and couldn't be opened by anyone, I would bet that this would not have been changed.
I doubt I would have enough time in this life to help you get on my level of understanding...You keep using moot points and emoticons to fuel your argument.
For pity sake I'll try briefly. First it does not matter at all in any way shape or form how GOOD pet boxes trained because it is not a valid argument when you compare things like Climbing or Skinning. Second, because there are many examples that do the same thing they claimed Pet Boxes did, their reasoning is totally false, this raises the question what the Truth actually is. Third, breaking and entering is Pay to win as well because the cool down on the timer is based on your subscription type.
Last. Why do you keep tossing false information around like you actually KNOW when in fact you are assuming? YES you do learn from missing in combat. Yes this is a face palm move from a company who has countless glaring inconsistencies laying around. I could come on the forums and use a fake name, but I don't. I use my in game character name because it means something. I don't have to hide behind a tag name and get on the forums afraid of what I say, because I have integrity enough to stand by what I say and mean it.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GRIM45
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:52 PM CST
>Last. Why do you keep tossing false information around like you actually KNOW when in fact you are assuming? YES you do learn from missing in combat.
Thank you for continuing to prove you have no clue about game balance/game mechanics. I present you a log. Note that the bolded portions are from a plugin that shows when you gain exp for an action via the game XML stream:
> attack
< Moving with powerful grace, you feint a Tog-weight throwing club at a wind hound. A wind hound fails to evade, mainly avoiding the blow.
The club lands an ineffective strike to the hound's right arm.
[You're bruised, nimbly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
R>
Learned: Small Blunt(+1), Melee Mastery(0)
* Weakly, a wind hound howls and leaps, growling deep in its chest at you. You dodge, barely managing to get out of the way.
[You're bruised, nimbly balanced with opponent in better position.]
R>
Now note the complete lack of learning any experience for a miss:
> attack
< Moving poorly, you slice a battle axe at a wind hound. A wind hound evades, barely managing to get out of the way.
[You're nimbly balanced and in strong position.]
[Roundtime 8 sec.]
R>
* Moving poorly, a wind hound claws with berserk madness at you. You turn aside little of the claw with a battle axe.
[You're nimbly balanced with no advantage.]
R>
In fact, not only do you not learn from misses, you don't learn from blocks/parries either, you must actually make it through active defenses:
< Trying weakly, you slice a wide-bladed dagger at a faenrae reaver. A faenrae reaver barely blocks with an oval shield.
[You're nimbly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 4 sec.]
R>
You feel fully rested.
R>
* Trying weakly, a wind hound howls and leaps, growling deep in its chest at you. You turn aside little of the teeth with a wide-bladed dagger.
[You're nimbly balanced and in good position.]
R>
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Thank you for continuing to prove you have no clue about game balance/game mechanics. I present you a log. Note that the bolded portions are from a plugin that shows when you gain exp for an action via the game XML stream:
> attack
< Moving with powerful grace, you feint a Tog-weight throwing club at a wind hound. A wind hound fails to evade, mainly avoiding the blow.
The club lands an ineffective strike to the hound's right arm.
[You're bruised, nimbly balanced and in better position.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
R>
Learned: Small Blunt(+1), Melee Mastery(0)
* Weakly, a wind hound howls and leaps, growling deep in its chest at you. You dodge, barely managing to get out of the way.
[You're bruised, nimbly balanced with opponent in better position.]
R>
Now note the complete lack of learning any experience for a miss:
> attack
< Moving poorly, you slice a battle axe at a wind hound. A wind hound evades, barely managing to get out of the way.
[You're nimbly balanced and in strong position.]
[Roundtime 8 sec.]
R>
* Moving poorly, a wind hound claws with berserk madness at you. You turn aside little of the claw with a battle axe.
[You're nimbly balanced with no advantage.]
R>
In fact, not only do you not learn from misses, you don't learn from blocks/parries either, you must actually make it through active defenses:
< Trying weakly, you slice a wide-bladed dagger at a faenrae reaver. A faenrae reaver barely blocks with an oval shield.
[You're nimbly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 4 sec.]
R>
You feel fully rested.
R>
* Trying weakly, a wind hound howls and leaps, growling deep in its chest at you. You turn aside little of the teeth with a wide-bladed dagger.
[You're nimbly balanced and in good position.]
R>
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 06:59 PM CST
>>Thank you for continuing to prove you have no clue about game balance/game mechanics. I present you a log. Note that the bolded portions are from a plugin that shows when you gain exp for an action via the game XML stream:
Seriously you are making this into a sad spectacle because you are being so desperately to prove you know something. Even though you are wrong. You don't understand the system but you are trying to do an experiment within that system assuming your results will always be the same.
When you miss an attack, if it is not a huge miss, and your mastery is high enough you will LEARN anyway. It wont let you learn ANY weapon skill on any creature. Its based on your mastery and designed to help back training. Its very much part of the system. I am very sorry you are so desperately trying to argue this, when in fact you are still wrong.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Seriously you are making this into a sad spectacle because you are being so desperately to prove you know something. Even though you are wrong. You don't understand the system but you are trying to do an experiment within that system assuming your results will always be the same.
When you miss an attack, if it is not a huge miss, and your mastery is high enough you will LEARN anyway. It wont let you learn ANY weapon skill on any creature. Its based on your mastery and designed to help back training. Its very much part of the system. I am very sorry you are so desperately trying to argue this, when in fact you are still wrong.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GRIM45
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 07:03 PM CST
> When you miss an attack, if it is not a huge miss, and your mastery is high enough you will LEARN anyway. It wont let you learn ANY weapon skill on any creature. Its based on your mastery and designed to help back training. Its very much part of the system. I am very sorry you are so desperately trying to argue this, when in fact you are still wrong.
lolok. If it's so simple to prove, go do so.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
lolok. If it's so simple to prove, go do so.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 07:04 PM CST
>>lolok. If it's so simple to prove, go do so.
Aside from the fact that you are wrong, its also a very moot issue. It was never a main point of any argument. Why are you clinging so hard to this?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Aside from the fact that you are wrong, its also a very moot issue. It was never a main point of any argument. Why are you clinging so hard to this?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
DR-HELJE
Re: Pet Boxes etc ::NUDGE::
03/02/2020 07:08 PM CST
Please post on topic and not at each other. Further failures to do so will be hidden.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
SARAGOS
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/02/2020 08:33 PM CST
As someone who owns one of the 105 use boxes, I would suggest releasing limited use locksmithing trainers as items that were craftable by players using the Engineering skill. If necessary, a skill range could be tacked on to them, or greater RT's in order to differentiate them from the MT incidentals. I know there's a concern about criminal skills being trained without "risk", but to be honest, locksmithing is properly trained without risk IRL - it's no more dangerous than learning an instrument. In fact, the way you do it is literally like having training boxes - you buy some locks of different difficulties and practice on them.
I understand the issue of "pet boxes" being a bug, but I don't think the concept is a totally broken one. In fact, it's one of the more clear instances of DR training reflecting how things are actually trained IRL, especially considering how obnoxious and dangerous boxes are to pick. It's one of the few examples of "truth in training", IMO. If the concern is "one room DR", then rather than eliminate the concept of "pet boxes", a better separation mechanism to control what other skills can be trained alongside it would actually be a better, more user-friendly fix. Much like how Performance is pretty effectively locked out of being trained in combat.
Right now, there are four main action ecosystems for training in DR:
1) Combat, and the things that can be trained with it.
2) Performance, and the things that can be trained with it.
3) Everything that can be trained outside of combat while not Performing.
4) Everything that can be trained while crafting.
If necessary, take measures to slot this hypothetical craftable training lock into either slot 3, or slots 2 and 3, in order to prevent too much from going on at once. I can't speak for everyone with a locksmithing trainer, but I would not feel that such a device would invalidate my purchase.
- Saragos
I understand the issue of "pet boxes" being a bug, but I don't think the concept is a totally broken one. In fact, it's one of the more clear instances of DR training reflecting how things are actually trained IRL, especially considering how obnoxious and dangerous boxes are to pick. It's one of the few examples of "truth in training", IMO. If the concern is "one room DR", then rather than eliminate the concept of "pet boxes", a better separation mechanism to control what other skills can be trained alongside it would actually be a better, more user-friendly fix. Much like how Performance is pretty effectively locked out of being trained in combat.
Right now, there are four main action ecosystems for training in DR:
1) Combat, and the things that can be trained with it.
2) Performance, and the things that can be trained with it.
3) Everything that can be trained outside of combat while not Performing.
4) Everything that can be trained while crafting.
If necessary, take measures to slot this hypothetical craftable training lock into either slot 3, or slots 2 and 3, in order to prevent too much from going on at once. I can't speak for everyone with a locksmithing trainer, but I would not feel that such a device would invalidate my purchase.
- Saragos
DR-CORDULIA
Re: Changes to Locksmithing Experience
03/02/2020 09:34 PM CST
>>LESLIEC: Should we post here for the box drop rate? Or in the appropriate critter hunting folder?
I want to preface this by saying that we are primarily interested in finding substantial gaps in the hunting ladder for gathering boxes. We cannot promise that drop rates will increase for every creature players suggest, as there may be game balance or economic issues at play.
That being said, we would prefer to have all of the locksmithing-related suggestions in one thread (rather than scattering locksmithing-related suggestions across various creature boards).
So if you have suggestions for creatures whose drop rates you'd like us to look into, please start a single new thread on this board. It will make it easiest for us to find when we have some bandwidth to review the issue.
GM Cordulia
I want to preface this by saying that we are primarily interested in finding substantial gaps in the hunting ladder for gathering boxes. We cannot promise that drop rates will increase for every creature players suggest, as there may be game balance or economic issues at play.
That being said, we would prefer to have all of the locksmithing-related suggestions in one thread (rather than scattering locksmithing-related suggestions across various creature boards).
So if you have suggestions for creatures whose drop rates you'd like us to look into, please start a single new thread on this board. It will make it easiest for us to find when we have some bandwidth to review the issue.
GM Cordulia
DR-HELJE
Re: Pet Boxes etc ::NUDGE::
03/02/2020 10:23 PM CST
Posts were hidden.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/03/2020 08:54 AM CST
Climbing you can train running laps in crossing well after you can do the under gondola climb. Meaning you can use crossing to train to the skills potential limit as the under gondola climb is the hardest in game currently IIRC that has any value for travel. Its much faster when you are starting out in athletics however and failing over and over, holding weapons in each hand to increase the difficulty. Because the system generously rewards failing the climbs. Yes falling on your butt over and over is the best way.
Skinning you can kill mobs over and over in same room, they just keep respawning like magic..wow...and you just fail over and over skinning and guess what you will lock your skinning.
Weapons? Yes when I began back training weapons I was thrilled when I could train them all in Stormbulls even though I was just missing. Because of mastery I was able to make that transition and work all weapons before I could land hits with any of them. What would be thrilling is if a GM would just confirm what I said, but its also interesting that none of them will confirm I am wrong either.
The generous exp rewards that pet boxes gave was not that Generous. The first 100 lessons go fast in every skill, no matter what method. Once you have over 100 lessons the gains from failing a pet box is not astronomical anymore either, you still have to fail over and over again to lock, about the same time it would take you to lock Athletics climbing in the crossing or the same amount of time it would take you to lock skinning failing, even though you do have to be somewhat close to being able to skin the mob to learn. When a mob scales 100s of ranks, that range is really very large, you will learn 200+ lessons from failing on some hunts if your skinning was behind when you entered it.
The truth is that Pay to Win philosophy is taking root and some of us are aware. All of my examples are valid and highlight the underlying question, "if you can't be honest about this, what can you be honest about?" Also its just a dumb move. Its a Text MUD, making changes like this that are purely nerfs for $$ model is not the way to move into the future.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Skinning you can kill mobs over and over in same room, they just keep respawning like magic..wow...and you just fail over and over skinning and guess what you will lock your skinning.
Weapons? Yes when I began back training weapons I was thrilled when I could train them all in Stormbulls even though I was just missing. Because of mastery I was able to make that transition and work all weapons before I could land hits with any of them. What would be thrilling is if a GM would just confirm what I said, but its also interesting that none of them will confirm I am wrong either.
The generous exp rewards that pet boxes gave was not that Generous. The first 100 lessons go fast in every skill, no matter what method. Once you have over 100 lessons the gains from failing a pet box is not astronomical anymore either, you still have to fail over and over again to lock, about the same time it would take you to lock Athletics climbing in the crossing or the same amount of time it would take you to lock skinning failing, even though you do have to be somewhat close to being able to skin the mob to learn. When a mob scales 100s of ranks, that range is really very large, you will learn 200+ lessons from failing on some hunts if your skinning was behind when you entered it.
The truth is that Pay to Win philosophy is taking root and some of us are aware. All of my examples are valid and highlight the underlying question, "if you can't be honest about this, what can you be honest about?" Also its just a dumb move. Its a Text MUD, making changes like this that are purely nerfs for $$ model is not the way to move into the future.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
RCHIGHT
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/03/2020 10:38 AM CST
Missing hits in combat no longer grants experience. Please see the "Bone Wyverns" thread on the last page of the "Creatures of Elanthia" > "Creatures over 1000 ranks" forum. Looks like it changed summer of 2019. http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Creatures%20of%20Elanthia/Creatures%20over%201000%20Ranks/view?beginning_post_id=1&ending_post_id=131&page=2
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
AERATHOR
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/03/2020 12:10 PM CST
>>Looks like it changed summer of 2019.
Thanks for info, I hadn't seen that change yet. These forums are like a maze of information to navigate. Aside from that point which has been beaten to death for no reason at all, the idea remains the same. Since when did you not learn from failure? In real life its one of the main ways people learn is through failure, not success.
There was no rhyme or reason for the change when you consider there are so many similar examples that just get ignored that could be easily fixed. Why exactly was this change made if it wasn't for protecting their pay to win business model?
Even the Breaking and Entering system is highlighting this mentality with it being a cool down based on how much your subscription costs. Your status and power in the game is largely based on how much cash you spend each month. What you have is a trend. A trend that will most likely continue despite most of the community being against it from what I've seen on forums and Discord.
The rested EXP model is another grand example. You just have to ask yourself if you want to be aware of what is happening or not. Ask who stands to gain.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Thanks for info, I hadn't seen that change yet. These forums are like a maze of information to navigate. Aside from that point which has been beaten to death for no reason at all, the idea remains the same. Since when did you not learn from failure? In real life its one of the main ways people learn is through failure, not success.
There was no rhyme or reason for the change when you consider there are so many similar examples that just get ignored that could be easily fixed. Why exactly was this change made if it wasn't for protecting their pay to win business model?
Even the Breaking and Entering system is highlighting this mentality with it being a cool down based on how much your subscription costs. Your status and power in the game is largely based on how much cash you spend each month. What you have is a trend. A trend that will most likely continue despite most of the community being against it from what I've seen on forums and Discord.
The rested EXP model is another grand example. You just have to ask yourself if you want to be aware of what is happening or not. Ask who stands to gain.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
SHIFT3
Re: Pet Boxes etc
03/03/2020 05:12 PM CST
Since pet boxes are gone and not likely to return, can we increase the mindstates gained with practice boxes? The pouches from the maze, the MTX boxes, the burgled boxes, and the like.
While we're at it, can we make this craftable with tinkering?
CLAYSW7
locksmithing change
03/02/2020 10:33 PM CST
i pay 40 dollars a month to have fun not be micro managed by changing something simply cuse we were getting more exp than you thought we should,i think the new locksmithing skill changes suck rocks
