With the sorcerer circle review we should consider revising the way 717 works on the 175-198 endrolls. With the way it works now, creatures in this range are effectively killed without leaving a body and loot, and creatures above that are instantly killed and leave a body and loot. However, when the creature is unable to run, such as a stun from a previous cast of 717, hitting the creature with a 175-198 end roll knocks them unconscious and they are sleeping.

So this is a situation where a spell is "effectively dead" for a normal creature, but if the creature is incapacitated and cannot run (i.e in a worse condition), it's much like hitting it with a lower end roll. This seems backwards. If you are trying to kill with 717, it's like giving the target a +25 TD bonus. It is weird that the spell becomes essentially less effective in this way, especially since:

* The tendency is to then use focused implosion instead in this situation, which will likely leave no body either and depends on Spell Aiming.
* It makes dispel flares on non-buffed creatures, which fire before the roll, often have negative combat value for 717.
* They could just as well run away forever by sleep walking in a terrified nightmare.

It could work differently by having the "instant kill + leaves body behind" get pushed down to the 175-198 end roll for incapacitated targets, or even just have them run way forever while knocked unconscious. They cannot run away so they have a heart attack, a stroke, crack their head open against the ground, their soul flees from their body, they struggle so hard they rip their body apart, or whatever. There could maybe even be a push down in the end roll thresholds that stacks with multiple 717 casts or immobile status conditions (e.g. stun, immobilized, sleep, webbed). Maybe that only works enough to offset the out-of-room penalty for the case of Mass Evil Eye.

- Xorus' player