All,
Here's what we have in store for the new design of Resist Nature (620):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ztoimzT_R1jrPngz8GFZ3454q1JuNDqD8-AXZ5bhbnA
-M.
GS4-MESTYS
CLTIDBALL
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/11/2022 09:44 PM CST
Wow.
This is pretty awesome! I love that you're looking to move away from using armor for this, and tying it in with 614-made items. I may very well have to wake up and start playing my ranger(s) again/more!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Imaeran Inquisitor
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
This is pretty awesome! I love that you're looking to move away from using armor for this, and tying it in with 614-made items. I may very well have to wake up and start playing my ranger(s) again/more!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Imaeran Inquisitor
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
ECROCKEN
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/11/2022 10:21 PM CST
Thank you for this update, M! It looks like fun and I'm excited to play around with it when we can!
~EC
GILCHRISTR
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 12:54 AM CST
I think you should express the design goal that the magic item gains charges when it resists damage.
It took me several times of reading through the document trying to understand what "gaining mana" did. On first read through, I thought it was a mechanic for the resistance to wear out. You should put the idea up front - it will make the details easier to follow. It should go in the design goals section.
LEAFIARA
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 02:19 AM CST
I kinda love basically everything about this. I love:
* That it's not a gear upgrade
* The 5-tiers-of-5-resistances approach (very elegant solution to the "how valuable can it really be if it only works on armor?" dilemma the old incarnation had, without having to dip into the recharging idea that tattoos used again)
* The difficulty scaling that gives a lot of room for pre-cap and even fresh level 20 rangers to play around with...
* ...yet also has such a high ceiling that it's still worth maxing out every skill
* The value it adds to imbue boxes
* The value it adds to 614 in general (a permanent item and allowing 325 to work on 614 items)
* The mana recharging aspect (would never have seen this one coming; great idea)
* The outright damage negation aspect (this one in particular seems like a stroke of genius to add value to resistances against less common damage types)
Excited for whenever it's ready!
* That it's not a gear upgrade
* The 5-tiers-of-5-resistances approach (very elegant solution to the "how valuable can it really be if it only works on armor?" dilemma the old incarnation had, without having to dip into the recharging idea that tattoos used again)
* The difficulty scaling that gives a lot of room for pre-cap and even fresh level 20 rangers to play around with...
* ...yet also has such a high ceiling that it's still worth maxing out every skill
* The value it adds to imbue boxes
* The value it adds to 614 in general (a permanent item and allowing 325 to work on 614 items)
* The mana recharging aspect (would never have seen this one coming; great idea)
* The outright damage negation aspect (this one in particular seems like a stroke of genius to add value to resistances against less common damage types)
Excited for whenever it's ready!
RALK
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 09:30 AM CST
I'll second everything stated above. Overall, love it. Before I knew what was brewing, I was hoping 620 might turn into something else entirely that could also be applied to weapons - so that it would be a more in-demand service. But, I think what's now proposed is far more elegant than any total revamp of the skill.
Few critical thoughts for consideration:
1. I'm not sure I like how max mana will be determined by summoning lore of the initial 614 cast. This motivates fix-skilling into summoning lore for the initial creation (to harness MIU benefits from 40 blessing lore for items created by the ranger). The complexity is neat, but it strikes me as a bit clunky. It also creates a niche market for non-rangers looking to obtain a ranger imbed with high mana, which is just kinda weird. I wonder if setting max mana according to 620 (rather than 614 and summoning lore) might be a cleaner solution. Perhaps bump max mana to 80 with the first 620 cast? Or link it to the total number of 620 casts - maybe 50 + 1 for each cast?
2. Can we nuke ourselves to re-charge spell charges (e.g. 616 self with nature resist)? Or stand in icemule environs to absorb cold damage? This would be silly but might actually happen. I hope that sort of stuff is not possible.
3. I hope there are many different options for trinket appearance. Maybe there are a few already - haven't explored this completely. But it'd certainly be fun to pick your favorite type of bark amulet or grass anklet.
Few critical thoughts for consideration:
1. I'm not sure I like how max mana will be determined by summoning lore of the initial 614 cast. This motivates fix-skilling into summoning lore for the initial creation (to harness MIU benefits from 40 blessing lore for items created by the ranger). The complexity is neat, but it strikes me as a bit clunky. It also creates a niche market for non-rangers looking to obtain a ranger imbed with high mana, which is just kinda weird. I wonder if setting max mana according to 620 (rather than 614 and summoning lore) might be a cleaner solution. Perhaps bump max mana to 80 with the first 620 cast? Or link it to the total number of 620 casts - maybe 50 + 1 for each cast?
2. Can we nuke ourselves to re-charge spell charges (e.g. 616 self with nature resist)? Or stand in icemule environs to absorb cold damage? This would be silly but might actually happen. I hope that sort of stuff is not possible.
3. I hope there are many different options for trinket appearance. Maybe there are a few already - haven't explored this completely. But it'd certainly be fun to pick your favorite type of bark amulet or grass anklet.
OM1E5GA
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 11:58 AM CST
<1. I'm not sure I like how max mana will be determined by summoning lore of the initial 614 cast. This motivates fix-skilling into summoning lore for the initial creation (to harness MIU benefits from 40 blessing lore for items created by the ranger). The complexity is neat, but it strikes me as a bit clunky. It also creates a niche market for non-rangers looking to obtain a ranger imbed with high mana, which is just kinda weird. I wonder if setting max mana according to 620 (rather than 614 and summoning lore) might be a cleaner solution. Perhaps bump max mana to 80 with the first 620 cast? Or link it to the total number of 620 casts - maybe 50 + 1 for each cast?>
Is an additional 10 mana in the item really going to be worth the expense of a fixskill?
Seems more likely it would open a bit of a market for rangers that prefer summoning lore and/or aren't interested in making the most powerful 620 items they can to sell their imbued items to those that are looking to push the limits of 620. However much the release of this proposed spell increased the price of blank imbued items, I seriously doubt it would push it anywhere near the cost of a fixskills potion... and I don't see anything in the proposal saying the ranger casting 620 has to have been the one to imbue the item.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Is an additional 10 mana in the item really going to be worth the expense of a fixskill?
Seems more likely it would open a bit of a market for rangers that prefer summoning lore and/or aren't interested in making the most powerful 620 items they can to sell their imbued items to those that are looking to push the limits of 620. However much the release of this proposed spell increased the price of blank imbued items, I seriously doubt it would push it anywhere near the cost of a fixskills potion... and I don't see anything in the proposal saying the ranger casting 620 has to have been the one to imbue the item.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RALK
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 04:35 PM CST
Perhaps not - especially given that it's a recharging item. So, max mana is far less important than the rate of recharge.
And you're absolutely right that it doesn't significantly affect non-rangers who will be purchasing the service.
Just for you and your own trinket, you might want the imbed to be created by you, so that you can harness the MIU bonus from 40 blessings lore. In that particular case, I couldn't purchase another ranger's imbed (if I understand the MIU bonus correctly).
"At 40 Blessings lore ranks, the Ranger receives double the Magic Item Use benefits for any magic item that they create via Imbue."
All of that is admittedly pretty minor marginal stuff. But, would I fix-skills to perfect a cool item that I might conceivably pump 50 weeks of service into? Heh, probably a "yes" for me. I'm not even totally sure though...
And you're absolutely right that it doesn't significantly affect non-rangers who will be purchasing the service.
Just for you and your own trinket, you might want the imbed to be created by you, so that you can harness the MIU bonus from 40 blessings lore. In that particular case, I couldn't purchase another ranger's imbed (if I understand the MIU bonus correctly).
"At 40 Blessings lore ranks, the Ranger receives double the Magic Item Use benefits for any magic item that they create via Imbue."
All of that is admittedly pretty minor marginal stuff. But, would I fix-skills to perfect a cool item that I might conceivably pump 50 weeks of service into? Heh, probably a "yes" for me. I'm not even totally sure though...
FEIRA
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/12/2022 05:58 PM CST
This conversation highlights a concern I have about how blessing/summoning lore feature in the formulas.
Unlike other skills (MIU/Ranger Ranks) spirit lores are used as a direct trade off (pick one, you have less of the other even with infinite TPs) that impact a lot of ranger systems. Though they seem sort of balanced here, I fear that a meta will be established and service considerations will end up overwhelming the rest of the systems.
GS4-MESTYS
Re: Permanent Resist Nature (620) Design Revision.
01/28/2022 08:08 PM CST
The 620 updates are now on the Test instance.
-M.
-M.
