Don't know if this has been asked anywhere recently...
Any news on 1620 progress? Looking forward to having a complete spell list again, and seeing what fills in this spot! :)
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
CLTIDBALL
MENOS
Re: 1620?
09/30/2021 05:17 PM CDT
Should be the spot for our service, I'd think.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
LEAFIARA
Re: 1620?
09/30/2021 10:38 PM CDT
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I'm still deciding on one of two paths for paladins. Traditional item enhancement route (ie enchant/ensorcell/330) or tiered item. The traditional route is a simpler offering, but item difficulty means you guys will have to choose your poison. The tiered item doesn't have that problem, but has some other limitations.
Dhairn — 09/22/2021
Elaborate on the tiered concept, Viduus?
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I've mentioned it before. It'd be an item with tiers offering some unique ability. Specifically it was mentioned as banners/symbols.
The issue is that while banners/symbols work for paladins. Rogues/wizards/empaths/etc may feel differently.
If you reduce the idea to it's basic concept. An inventory item that does cool things. Most people get onboard with it. But when you start pushing it back towards a service a paladin would offer it gets weird.
[various people offering suggestions]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I have some guidelines I've set for the paladin service
Does not give away signature paladin abilities to the uncleansed masses
Desired by the uncleansed masses
Doesn’t invalidate/replace profession abilities
[couple more suggestions, then...]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I'm not super held up. I've a mostly completed proposal, just considering the pros/cons of tiered versus traditional.
I tend to spend a lot of time and energy thinking through things before moving forward with them.
like, I like the idea of banes, but they get problematic super fast
[ongoing back and forth]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
The problematic part I mentioned is that banes are something that you'd potentially want to change/remove. After spending a lot of effort getting them done.
[ongoing exchanges with various people]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I think you guys will probably be on board with this proposal. If not you can trash it.
[ongoing exchanges on banes as well as other ideas, now past midnight]
Viduus — 09/23/2021
I didn't say it was off the table. Just that permanency was just one issue with banes.
Don't get me wrong. I'm listening to the ideas. But if I say I like something, I've probably put some thought into it.
It wouldn't make sense to me to have it use the same slot as existing banes.
No players have actually mentioned the stuff in the proposal I'm doing.
Kianriu — 09/23/2021
give us a hint then?
Viduus — 09/23/2021
well, not that I've seen anyway
You'll see once it's been torn apart by the dev team and made public.
I wasn't really going for a teaser session. I'm still entertaining ideas for services.
I just said I hadn't seen any players mention the ideas I had that met my guidelines above.
Leafiara — 09/23/2021
Viduus — Yesterday at 11:27 PM
Does not give away signature paladin abilities to the uncleansed masses
Desired by the uncleansed masses
Doesn’t invalidate/replace profession abilities
Okay, so... 1 and 2 seem pretty easy to do, but 3 is the problem if anything is.
Actually, maybe 1 is also the problem. It depends on the definition of "signature" and "invalidate/replace."
Like the bard luck service is technically giving away a signature bard ability, albeit a smaller percentage version of it so as not to replace it.
Viduus — 09/23/2021
That line was mostly put in for plasma flares. Every other day I see paladins trying to give everyone plasma flares.
but I've also seen proposals for giving away beseech, 1625, 1650, fluidity, 1612, nearly every unique item in the list
[more back and forth]
Viduus — 09/23/2021
it's pretty late so I'm going to have to run
You guys should post ideas to the forums so they aren't lost if you think of something.
I've a few extra guidelines not listed above, but that's a good starting point.
I'm still deciding on one of two paths for paladins. Traditional item enhancement route (ie enchant/ensorcell/330) or tiered item. The traditional route is a simpler offering, but item difficulty means you guys will have to choose your poison. The tiered item doesn't have that problem, but has some other limitations.
Dhairn — 09/22/2021
Elaborate on the tiered concept, Viduus?
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I've mentioned it before. It'd be an item with tiers offering some unique ability. Specifically it was mentioned as banners/symbols.
The issue is that while banners/symbols work for paladins. Rogues/wizards/empaths/etc may feel differently.
If you reduce the idea to it's basic concept. An inventory item that does cool things. Most people get onboard with it. But when you start pushing it back towards a service a paladin would offer it gets weird.
[various people offering suggestions]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I have some guidelines I've set for the paladin service
Does not give away signature paladin abilities to the uncleansed masses
Desired by the uncleansed masses
Doesn’t invalidate/replace profession abilities
[couple more suggestions, then...]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I'm not super held up. I've a mostly completed proposal, just considering the pros/cons of tiered versus traditional.
I tend to spend a lot of time and energy thinking through things before moving forward with them.
like, I like the idea of banes, but they get problematic super fast
[ongoing back and forth]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
The problematic part I mentioned is that banes are something that you'd potentially want to change/remove. After spending a lot of effort getting them done.
[ongoing exchanges with various people]
Viduus — 09/22/2021
I think you guys will probably be on board with this proposal. If not you can trash it.
[ongoing exchanges on banes as well as other ideas, now past midnight]
Viduus — 09/23/2021
I didn't say it was off the table. Just that permanency was just one issue with banes.
Don't get me wrong. I'm listening to the ideas. But if I say I like something, I've probably put some thought into it.
It wouldn't make sense to me to have it use the same slot as existing banes.
No players have actually mentioned the stuff in the proposal I'm doing.
Kianriu — 09/23/2021
give us a hint then?
Viduus — 09/23/2021
well, not that I've seen anyway
You'll see once it's been torn apart by the dev team and made public.
I wasn't really going for a teaser session. I'm still entertaining ideas for services.
I just said I hadn't seen any players mention the ideas I had that met my guidelines above.
Leafiara — 09/23/2021
Viduus — Yesterday at 11:27 PM
Does not give away signature paladin abilities to the uncleansed masses
Desired by the uncleansed masses
Doesn’t invalidate/replace profession abilities
Okay, so... 1 and 2 seem pretty easy to do, but 3 is the problem if anything is.
Actually, maybe 1 is also the problem. It depends on the definition of "signature" and "invalidate/replace."
Like the bard luck service is technically giving away a signature bard ability, albeit a smaller percentage version of it so as not to replace it.
Viduus — 09/23/2021
That line was mostly put in for plasma flares. Every other day I see paladins trying to give everyone plasma flares.
but I've also seen proposals for giving away beseech, 1625, 1650, fluidity, 1612, nearly every unique item in the list
[more back and forth]
Viduus — 09/23/2021
it's pretty late so I'm going to have to run
You guys should post ideas to the forums so they aren't lost if you think of something.
I've a few extra guidelines not listed above, but that's a good starting point.
XPAULSENX
Re: 1620?
10/01/2021 01:00 AM CDT
Leafiara, I love how you included all the rabble rabble, that was in the conversation :).
Whatever the master of Paladins comes up with, can't wait to see it!
-Khaell
Whatever the master of Paladins comes up with, can't wait to see it!
-Khaell
GS4-VIDUUS
Re: 1620?
10/01/2021 01:33 AM CDT
>>Should be the spot for our service, I'd think.
It's currently penciled in for the service slot.
Viduus
It's currently penciled in for the service slot.
Viduus
CLTIDBALL
Re: 1620?
10/01/2021 11:16 AM CDT
>Leafi with the Discord convo+rabblerabble
Thanks for this, Leafi... those of us who don't keep up with the GSDiscord appreciate it!
>Viduus with the "currently penciled in for the service slot"
Awesome. Looking forward to what you come out with!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
Thanks for this, Leafi... those of us who don't keep up with the GSDiscord appreciate it!
>Viduus with the "currently penciled in for the service slot"
Awesome. Looking forward to what you come out with!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
G4CK5
Re: 1620?
10/02/2021 10:17 AM CDT
I am really digging the idea of having 1620 as a tiered add Bane service. I get the problem with wanting to change it for different areas that you are hunting. I mean you could tier it 1-5 and make it have charges like the Monk tattoo's. So you are not always committed to having 1 type of bane. Soon as the charges run out you could put the same bane "recharge it" or add a different bane to your weapon. Only issue I see with it. is the costs of these banes would need to be reasonable so people don't feel like they are having to pay a ton of silvers to change or recharge their weapons.
Overall all concept of banes is a great idea.
GS4-VIDUUS
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 12:05 AM CDT
>>I am really digging the idea of having 1620 as a tiered add Bane service. I get the problem with wanting to change it for different areas that you are hunting. I mean you could tier it 1-5 and make it have charges like the Monk tattoo's. So you are not always committed to having 1 type of bane. Soon as the charges run out you could put the same bane "recharge it" or add a different bane to your weapon. Only issue I see with it. is the costs of these banes would need to be reasonable so people don't feel like they are having to pay a ton of silvers to change or recharge their weapons.
>>Overall all concept of banes is a great idea.
I realize the copy and paste of the discord conversation was probably a little confusing for anyone not part of it, but a tiered bane service wasn't on the table. We discussed tiered service offerings versus traditional (enchant/ensorcel/grit/etc.) and the pros and cons of each. Then the topic of banes came up and I expressed that while I like the idea, they are problematic from a permanent service offering as the instant you switch a hunting ground your bane is worthless - and that doesn't occur with enchant/ensorcel/etc. So while I like the idea of banes, I don't personally think they would make a good service offering. I also mentioned that I felt traditionally banes (aka favored foes) was more of a ranger ability than a paladin ability. Since most game settings have paladins having an edge against undead and extraplanar (fiends, demons, that kind of thing) and nothing else, but rangers can pick their favored foes every few levels.
For those that weren't part of the discussion. It started with me saying that I'm currently deciding the direction of the paladin service and whether it should be a tiered item or a traditional item improvement service. A traditional item improvement service would be akin to enchant/ensorcel/grit/etc and would work on armor, weapons, and shields. It's what most people think of when they think of service offerings. The biggest downside to the traditional route is that it will use the item score that all of the other traditional offerings use, and those scores on existing items can already be high.
A tiered/alternative item is something similar to the banners idea floated back in January that wasn't overly popular. With each tier providing a unique ability or the same ability but not on an armament. It doesn't suffer from the item score problem, but does have some problems of it's own. Specifically, most items a paladin could offer wouldn't be popular for other professions. Ideas being banners, wings, symbols, tabards, etc. In GS non-cleric/paladin characters tend to be less public with their religion or like to keep their characters low key, so the idea of someone like a rogue throwing down a banner in the middle of combat seems odd. Also, tiered items would have to be balanced in some way. So while not a hard rule, probably time locked or with limited daily charges.
I've a few ideas for both routes, but I'm leaning towards a traditional offering. I feel like it's in a paladin's domain to eat and breathe combat, so being familiar with armor, weapons, and shields and knowing how to enhance them fits in my mind. While creating an item from scratch seems more suited for someone who's life isn't combat.
That being said, I am receptive to suggestions for services of both types given it meets the criteria I expressed before. Doesn't give away any key paladin abilities, doesn't invalidate other class abilities, and is something that would be desired by most classes. I do have some other criteria, but those are a good starting point.
Viduus
>>Overall all concept of banes is a great idea.
I realize the copy and paste of the discord conversation was probably a little confusing for anyone not part of it, but a tiered bane service wasn't on the table. We discussed tiered service offerings versus traditional (enchant/ensorcel/grit/etc.) and the pros and cons of each. Then the topic of banes came up and I expressed that while I like the idea, they are problematic from a permanent service offering as the instant you switch a hunting ground your bane is worthless - and that doesn't occur with enchant/ensorcel/etc. So while I like the idea of banes, I don't personally think they would make a good service offering. I also mentioned that I felt traditionally banes (aka favored foes) was more of a ranger ability than a paladin ability. Since most game settings have paladins having an edge against undead and extraplanar (fiends, demons, that kind of thing) and nothing else, but rangers can pick their favored foes every few levels.
For those that weren't part of the discussion. It started with me saying that I'm currently deciding the direction of the paladin service and whether it should be a tiered item or a traditional item improvement service. A traditional item improvement service would be akin to enchant/ensorcel/grit/etc and would work on armor, weapons, and shields. It's what most people think of when they think of service offerings. The biggest downside to the traditional route is that it will use the item score that all of the other traditional offerings use, and those scores on existing items can already be high.
A tiered/alternative item is something similar to the banners idea floated back in January that wasn't overly popular. With each tier providing a unique ability or the same ability but not on an armament. It doesn't suffer from the item score problem, but does have some problems of it's own. Specifically, most items a paladin could offer wouldn't be popular for other professions. Ideas being banners, wings, symbols, tabards, etc. In GS non-cleric/paladin characters tend to be less public with their religion or like to keep their characters low key, so the idea of someone like a rogue throwing down a banner in the middle of combat seems odd. Also, tiered items would have to be balanced in some way. So while not a hard rule, probably time locked or with limited daily charges.
I've a few ideas for both routes, but I'm leaning towards a traditional offering. I feel like it's in a paladin's domain to eat and breathe combat, so being familiar with armor, weapons, and shields and knowing how to enhance them fits in my mind. While creating an item from scratch seems more suited for someone who's life isn't combat.
That being said, I am receptive to suggestions for services of both types given it meets the criteria I expressed before. Doesn't give away any key paladin abilities, doesn't invalidate other class abilities, and is something that would be desired by most classes. I do have some other criteria, but those are a good starting point.
Viduus
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 08:40 AM CDT
>> I feel like it's in a paladin's domain to eat and breathe combat, so being familiar with armor, weapons, and shields and knowing how to enhance them fits in my mind.
>> Doesn't give away any key paladin abilities, doesn't invalidate other class abilities, and is something that would be desired by most classes.
Playing on the eat and breathe combat theme...
Paladin's are experts on the field of battle to the point that they are able to imbue some of that battle knowledge or lessons into weapons and armor through the magic of their chosen arkati.
Paladin's that know 1620 can accumulate "battle lessons" and add experience bonuses to weapons and armor such that each time a worthy opponent is slain, the user will gain an addition 2% experience earned per tier of service. At tier 5, there is also a chance (similar to normal flares) that the experience earned will be instantly absorbed. This service can be added to armor, weapons, or accessories but does not stack (only the highest tier is counted).
Tier 1: 50,000 battle lessons, 2% bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 2: 75,000 battle lessons, 4% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 3: 100,000 battle lessons, 6% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 4: 125,000 battle lessons, 8% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 5: 150,000 battle lessons, 10% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents. 15% chance to instantly absorb the experience earned from the slain foe.
-- Robert
Rex's face lights up as you approach the Gate. He waves happily and says, "It is good to see you back, Faulkil!"
>> Doesn't give away any key paladin abilities, doesn't invalidate other class abilities, and is something that would be desired by most classes.
Playing on the eat and breathe combat theme...
Paladin's are experts on the field of battle to the point that they are able to imbue some of that battle knowledge or lessons into weapons and armor through the magic of their chosen arkati.
Paladin's that know 1620 can accumulate "battle lessons" and add experience bonuses to weapons and armor such that each time a worthy opponent is slain, the user will gain an addition 2% experience earned per tier of service. At tier 5, there is also a chance (similar to normal flares) that the experience earned will be instantly absorbed. This service can be added to armor, weapons, or accessories but does not stack (only the highest tier is counted).
Tier 1: 50,000 battle lessons, 2% bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 2: 75,000 battle lessons, 4% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 3: 100,000 battle lessons, 6% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 4: 125,000 battle lessons, 8% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents.
Tier 5: 150,000 battle lessons, 10% cumulative bonus to experience earned from slain opponents. 15% chance to instantly absorb the experience earned from the slain foe.
-- Robert
Rex's face lights up as you approach the Gate. He waves happily and says, "It is good to see you back, Faulkil!"
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 08:55 AM CDT
Thinking about this a little more, I would probably disqualify armor accessories from this proposed service or would only allow accessories to provide half the bonus and no chance for instant absorption at T5.
-- Robert
Rex's face lights up as you approach the Gate. He waves happily and says, "It is good to see you back, Faulkil!"
-- Robert
Rex's face lights up as you approach the Gate. He waves happily and says, "It is good to see you back, Faulkil!"
KANDOR
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 10:10 AM CDT
It's a little lackluster, but I'd just suggest a very small bonus to EBP, whatever is appropriate to the item. Any weapons, shields, or armor. Maybe with some kind of capstone bonus like an additional boost to SMR defense, or else a reduction of the SMR stunned/prone penalties. These are things that could benefit anyone, including the paladin.
KANDOR
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 10:14 AM CDT
My previous suggestion could be made more interesting by giving different bonuses for pairing items, maybe instead of a capstone. Use a paladin-enhanced weapon and shield together and get an additional set bonus. Use a weapon, shield, and armor together and get a different bonus. Runestaff and armor different. etc.
KANDOR
Re: 1620?
10/03/2021 10:33 AM CDT
>Specifically, most items a paladin could offer wouldn't be popular for other professions. Ideas being banners, wings, symbols, tabards, etc. In GS non-cleric/paladin characters tend to be less public with their religion or like to keep their characters low key, so the idea of someone like a rogue throwing down a banner in the middle of combat seems odd.
How about a holy symbol? Let players pick whatever symbol fits best and the paladin can imbue them with something permanent.
How about a holy symbol? Let players pick whatever symbol fits best and the paladin can imbue them with something permanent.
