About a year ago, plus or minus a few months, there was a Storyline in Illistim where a wagon of Erithi broke down, on the way to a wedding. There were a few murders that came about soon after. It eventually went to trial and questioning and the murderers were, sadly, let free because it was all circumstantial evidence.
I, Japhrimel, had a blast during this whole event, I managed to be involved throughout the entire thing, including being one of the final three Questioners.
I loved getting to play detective as well as questioner. I would love another murder mystery "who dun it" kind of thing.
If anyone has logs from this or at least remembers the different key players, like the erithi and their names, I would love the details. I remember during the event I had told everyone I would write a song about it all and I would still like to do that.
SHAD0WS0NGS
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
01/05/2011 02:51 PM CST
I also had a fantastic time with this storyline. It really brought some erithi out of the woodwork and I got to be the little forensics nut in game that I've always been in real life. All that coursework finally became useful!
I only have a couple things to mention. For the first, it was a bit frustrating that we had no method of making our case, explaining our theory of what happened, or using evidence to bolster our arguments. With only being able to ask questions, things became rather disjointed and may have been hard to follow by those who weren't involved from the start. It was only through working with people OOCly to plan our questions that we were able to get Narue to admit that she was having an affair with her brother in the first place. We also didn't have much time to plan our final questions. They may have been not as effective as they could have been.
Not being able to state our theories might have drastically changed the outcome in events. I had formulated my own idea (which turned out to be correct) and had plenty of evidence to back up my claims, but I had no time to communicate everything. I'm also pretty sure Ardtin would have shot me down anyway since they weren't questions.
<<It eventually went to trial and questioning and the murderers were, sadly, let free because it was all circumstantial evidence.>>
Actually, there's a common misperception that circumstantial evidence is somehow weaker than direct evidence. Frustratingly, I saw that assumption everywhere in this storyline, where people would reject it out of hand before I could even explain it. Many, many cases come to trial and result in convictions purely on circumstantial evidence. It's often all that remains from a crime, so waiting for evidence that incontrovertibly places a murder weapon in someone's hand at the time of the crime (which I often heard people demanding) will only lead to disappointment. It's only from examining everything connected to a crime, circumstantial or not, that a clearer picture emerges.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
I only have a couple things to mention. For the first, it was a bit frustrating that we had no method of making our case, explaining our theory of what happened, or using evidence to bolster our arguments. With only being able to ask questions, things became rather disjointed and may have been hard to follow by those who weren't involved from the start. It was only through working with people OOCly to plan our questions that we were able to get Narue to admit that she was having an affair with her brother in the first place. We also didn't have much time to plan our final questions. They may have been not as effective as they could have been.
Not being able to state our theories might have drastically changed the outcome in events. I had formulated my own idea (which turned out to be correct) and had plenty of evidence to back up my claims, but I had no time to communicate everything. I'm also pretty sure Ardtin would have shot me down anyway since they weren't questions.
<<It eventually went to trial and questioning and the murderers were, sadly, let free because it was all circumstantial evidence.>>
Actually, there's a common misperception that circumstantial evidence is somehow weaker than direct evidence. Frustratingly, I saw that assumption everywhere in this storyline, where people would reject it out of hand before I could even explain it. Many, many cases come to trial and result in convictions purely on circumstantial evidence. It's often all that remains from a crime, so waiting for evidence that incontrovertibly places a murder weapon in someone's hand at the time of the crime (which I often heard people demanding) will only lead to disappointment. It's only from examining everything connected to a crime, circumstantial or not, that a clearer picture emerges.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
GS4-ITZEL
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
01/05/2011 03:07 PM CST
The murder mystery (which internally we called Erithi Maiden) was a different beast in Prime than it was during the Plat run. Prime benefited from me knowing what corners needed smoothing, but Plat probably ended up with a more satisfying questioning experience. Neither turned out how I'd thought they would though!
I'd definitely like to do another mystery, in the vein of Erithi Maiden, or Suicide Spire, or the CCF plots. Mysteries take a lot of prepwork, but I'll definitely keep the idea of doing one in mind for 2011.
Itzel
Team Plat
Forest Gnome Guru
Elven Nations Guru
Wordsmiths Guru
I'd definitely like to do another mystery, in the vein of Erithi Maiden, or Suicide Spire, or the CCF plots. Mysteries take a lot of prepwork, but I'll definitely keep the idea of doing one in mind for 2011.
Itzel
Team Plat
Forest Gnome Guru
Elven Nations Guru
Wordsmiths Guru
GREATFALLS
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
01/05/2011 03:48 PM CST
I had come back to GS after a four yearish hiatus and came back pretty much in the middle of the Erithi Murder Mystery quest. I wasn't sure if I was going to stay or I was just bored of raiding in that graphical game. >.>
I got so hooked into the murder mystery and I really doubt I would have stayed around if I didn't have such a great time and meet some fun characters. <3
So yes, more stuff like this!
I got so hooked into the murder mystery and I really doubt I would have stayed around if I didn't have such a great time and meet some fun characters. <3
So yes, more stuff like this!
SHAD0WS0NGS
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
01/06/2011 08:25 PM CST
"Many, many cases come to trial and result in convictions purely on circumstantial evidence."
While I agree that this is true, it strikes me as somewhat of a flaw in our system that so many cases would rely purely on circumstantial evidence. What comes to mind is legislation regarding confessions and how they alone cannot stand as evidence against the person, there also must be real evidence, but instead this is actually the case many times.
While I agree that this is true, it strikes me as somewhat of a flaw in our system that so many cases would rely purely on circumstantial evidence. What comes to mind is legislation regarding confessions and how they alone cannot stand as evidence against the person, there also must be real evidence, but instead this is actually the case many times.
CINNAMON
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
02/07/2011 02:25 AM CST
"Many, many cases come to trial and result in convictions purely on circumstantial evidence."
<<While I agree that this is true, it strikes me as somewhat of a flaw in our system that so many cases would rely purely on circumstantial evidence. What comes to mind is legislation regarding confessions and how they alone cannot stand as evidence against the person, there also must be real evidence, but instead this is actually the case many times. >>
Take for example, the West Memphis Three.
Three boys sent to jail for life (one's on death row) based on circumstantial evidence and one confession. The confession was from Jessie Miskelley, who's intelligence level could only be politely called 'barely above special needs' (his IQ is 71 and 70 is mentally handicapped) and who was held in the interrogation room for more than 10 hrs with no water or bathroom breaks, being mentally battered into confessing, before the recorders were ever turned on, and even then the police had to correct him several times during his confession on the facts of the case.
The police had decided who the guilty parties were, and they ignored suspicious situations and concentrated solely on finding whatever they needed to prove their beliefs.
The three guys are still in prison 15yrs later.. they've spent half their lives there for something a lot of people think they didn't do.
HBO did two really good documentaries on the story. You should check them out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/04/AR2010110402532.html
http://www.wm3.org/Updates
http://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Lost-Child-Murders-Robin/dp/B000AYEIY0/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1297070350&sr=1-2
<<While I agree that this is true, it strikes me as somewhat of a flaw in our system that so many cases would rely purely on circumstantial evidence. What comes to mind is legislation regarding confessions and how they alone cannot stand as evidence against the person, there also must be real evidence, but instead this is actually the case many times. >>
Take for example, the West Memphis Three.
Three boys sent to jail for life (one's on death row) based on circumstantial evidence and one confession. The confession was from Jessie Miskelley, who's intelligence level could only be politely called 'barely above special needs' (his IQ is 71 and 70 is mentally handicapped) and who was held in the interrogation room for more than 10 hrs with no water or bathroom breaks, being mentally battered into confessing, before the recorders were ever turned on, and even then the police had to correct him several times during his confession on the facts of the case.
The police had decided who the guilty parties were, and they ignored suspicious situations and concentrated solely on finding whatever they needed to prove their beliefs.
The three guys are still in prison 15yrs later.. they've spent half their lives there for something a lot of people think they didn't do.
HBO did two really good documentaries on the story. You should check them out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/04/AR2010110402532.html
http://www.wm3.org/Updates
http://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Lost-Child-Murders-Robin/dp/B000AYEIY0/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1297070350&sr=1-2
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: Erithian Murder Mystery
02/07/2011 11:26 AM CST
<<Take for example, the West Memphis Three.>>
Miscarriages of justice do happen, regrettably. However, that does not mean that circumstantial evidence is any less important.
Law.com provides the following definition:
>n. evidence in a trial which is not directly from an eyewitness or participant and requires some reasoning to prove a fact. There is a public perception that such evidence is weak ("all they have is circumstantial evidence"), but the probable conclusion from the circumstances may be so strong that there can be little doubt as to a vital fact ("beyond a reasonable doubt" in a criminal case, and "a preponderance of the evidence" in a civil case). Particularly in criminal cases, "eyewitness" ("I saw Frankie shoot Johnny") type evidence is often lacking and may be unreliable, so circumstantial evidence becomes essential. Prior threats to the victim, fingerprints found at the scene of the crime, ownership of the murder weapon, and the accused being seen in the neighborhood, certainly point to the suspect as being the killer, but each bit of evidence is circumstantial.
As criminals tend to try to avoid leaving direct evidence, circumstantial evidence becomes the most common type offered in the courts. In fact, a lot of forensic evidence is circumstantial by its very nature, including the proverbial 'smoking gun.' It is in assembling the evidence together that the clear picture emerges, but that need to look at everything that was assembled does not make the conclusion any less valid.
However, we're off topic by continuing this discussion. Sorry board mods!
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Miscarriages of justice do happen, regrettably. However, that does not mean that circumstantial evidence is any less important.
Law.com provides the following definition:
>n. evidence in a trial which is not directly from an eyewitness or participant and requires some reasoning to prove a fact. There is a public perception that such evidence is weak ("all they have is circumstantial evidence"), but the probable conclusion from the circumstances may be so strong that there can be little doubt as to a vital fact ("beyond a reasonable doubt" in a criminal case, and "a preponderance of the evidence" in a civil case). Particularly in criminal cases, "eyewitness" ("I saw Frankie shoot Johnny") type evidence is often lacking and may be unreliable, so circumstantial evidence becomes essential. Prior threats to the victim, fingerprints found at the scene of the crime, ownership of the murder weapon, and the accused being seen in the neighborhood, certainly point to the suspect as being the killer, but each bit of evidence is circumstantial.
As criminals tend to try to avoid leaving direct evidence, circumstantial evidence becomes the most common type offered in the courts. In fact, a lot of forensic evidence is circumstantial by its very nature, including the proverbial 'smoking gun.' It is in assembling the evidence together that the clear picture emerges, but that need to look at everything that was assembled does not make the conclusion any less valid.
However, we're off topic by continuing this discussion. Sorry board mods!
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
