I think the problem is even if they did have a big event for low level characters capped people would be running around crushing everything anyway. I think they've really gotten away from the point of rpas(roleplaying) and people expect them now if they show up and stand in the right room for an hour or two. My opinion is the GM run storylines should be their own reward and rpas should be given to people rping without a GM present(visibly) to encourage more rp in the lands. I think the haphazardly handing them out during storylines without rhyme or reason leads to anger like the above poster.

One possibility might be to designate certain areas of town for certain level ranges. That way lower level characters would know it is relatively safe to protect the west ring road for example, but not the south ring road, etc. That would also have the benefit of the Capped folks knowing that they can expect challenging critters to be in certain areas and so avoid swatting the lower level stuff, thus not hogging the fun.

Not a perfect solution, but just an idea for consideration. It also doesn't have to be a hard and fast kind of thing just a general thing for people to not step on each others toes.

Let me start by saying I have ZERO to do with the storyline going on in regards to Talador. I have, however, done quite a few invasions, both as a player and as a GM. From the player viewpoint, it's 'OMG! Invading stuff! Must KILL IT!'. What usually happens is a large group forms (easier to move around as a group, and easier to not get killed/disabled/annoyed by AOE spells people in said group are using. This doesn't always happen, but it usually does.

From the GM side, it's not as easy to do invasions as you might think. Some of you may remember the recent ShadowGuard fun in the EN. There were usually three of us doing the invasions. We'd each take a section, and do our best to entertain those of all age ranges. When lower level characters around Vaalor wanted to jump in, we tried to use a specific area outside one of the gates for them to have their own little piece of the action, and the higher level characters were kept busy out one of the other gates. So, one GM per gate, plus another one around Ta'Illistim. It gets crazy running back and forth in the shadows spawning things for you guys to kill, while trying to keep up with the various groups and soloists. But we do try. You may not see it that way, and I won't speak for all the other GMs, but I know several of us do try.

Probably the most frustrating thing is when capped people come in and mow stuff down in 1 swing/cast/symbol, and no one else in the group (which usually contains several non-capped and low level characters) even gets a chance to see what's in the room they might have a chance of hitting. So, one player using a symbol to obliterate 30 undead things in a room when there are half a dozen to a dozen people in the group without even giving anyone a chance to attack? Not very considerate of that one person, is it? I'm not saying 'don't use such a such method to kill things in invasions.' I'm saying, be considerate of people in the group. Don't use implosion like it's the only spell you know. Sometimes one of those things you just imploded is holding someone's (unregistered) weapon, and it's now gone for good. Yeah, spike thorn's cool, but with a group of people trying to enjoy and participate in the invasion, are those spells really needed all that much? If things get dicey, sure! Pull out the big guns and mop things up, then go back to the fun of working together. There are other spells (410, 316, 1120, etc) which can help disable things and still allow group participation.

I'm NOT saying GMs aren't doing a good job of including all levels. I'm saying we try, and maybe try to be more considerate of others trying to have their fun.

As for R(ole)P(lay)A(ward)s, I'm more inclined to give those out based on RolePlay, rather than just showing up and not doing anything other than joining a group. I don't think being logged in in the vicinity of the action is quite the same as immersing yourself and adding to the flavor of things. But that's my opinion.

~~GM Kynlee~~
Private Property Guru
GS4-Kynlee@play.net

I would also like to remind everyone of the towers, rooftops, bashing stuff, etc. that any character can do at any level. I have seen many littler characters participate and effect real change in invasions.

Rowmi has participated in every single invasion (that I was able to be logged in for) since he was level nothing. I, for one, have enjoyed them all.

-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.

The problem I've seen as a low level character in a couple invasions is that you don't necessarily have the opportunity to move around and find critters. All it takes is one hit or being in the wrong place at the wrong time and blammo, you're on the altar, or being drug to TSC for a raise. If there were designated areas where young ones are expected to be then we'd know that it was "relatively" safe to be in that area, at least from the perspective that we won't get immediately squished by a backhanded swat from some capped critter who happens to be in the room.

Its not very practical, nor is it immersive for a GM to post to the BBS that on this day they will invade area x, with level 10-15 creatures. The invasions typically ramp up in strength from lower to higher levels, and as the invaders are isolated, word travels as to where and what is the best tactic and method to use against them. Unfortunately, that requires the challenging of these monsters to determine their strength, and this usually results in death(s).

I know its frustrating to be a lower level during exciting times. When The Arcane Eye first glittered into existence, my character was level 14. I like to think I had a role in the story then, and now, with the same character capped.... he still dies. A Lot.

Point being I suppose, is that while last night's invasion was dealt from Walkars Woods, and did roll in with heavy hitters from the beginning, that has a lot more to do with the story unfolding, than an attempt to only allow capped characters a chance to fight. Sometimes an important message has to be delivered to drive a story along. A big hammer for a big nail.

My capped character died last night too. Just saying.



~Mychar wonders why he cannot leap over the railings onto invaders with his stiletto.

~Because you are Greganth, not Batman.

>>Just venting here to Kenstrom and all the other GM'S, I am getting very sick of the neglect of the young characters in these story lines, you set these things up for only capped, yes you did throw us a little bone with the taladorian area but as far as big events such as last nights and others before it is set up for capped only as if we dont exist. RPA'S given to capped folks while myself and other younger characters i know got none. I am certainly considering ending my subscription because of all the unfairness and Gm friends knowing everything beforehand. It is not any wonder this game has gone from 600-700 adventurers when i started playing to the measly 200-300 adventurers that now play. So sad to see this game go down the toilet realy had some good times in the past.

I think that you have to also consider finding ways outside of combat to help. Stormyrain is not capped, but she is finally at a level where she can at least HIT some of the big nasties..well and die a lot..previously, like during the GSS, she would rescue during invasions. She would spell up, wait, find out where bodies were dropping, run in invisible with a ruby amulet rubbed and grab as many bodies as she could and voln fog them out.

Then she would LK dead bodies and make sure to help however she could. I also second the idea of introducing yourself to the characters that consistently run the towers (Ephya comes to mind!) and learn how to shoot arrows into the masses (just..try to aim better than Ephya does. Stormyrain was shot 3x in the chest yesterday by her arrows. THE NERVE! ;)...) as a way of helping in combat.

As for the RPA complaint, there are days where there are blanket RPAs and days where there are none. Most of the RPAs I have received in situations like this occur when there is NOT an invasion going on but rather a NPC event. Maybe try having your character attend some of those, become more aware of and involved in the storyline, and I think that you will find that it is such a huge storyline, with so many different facets, that you can find a space for your character to occupy.

By the way, most of the enjoyment on my end has not come from the events where the GM NPC is standing by..but from what trails the overall arc of the story has taken my character. Secret rituals, whispered conversations, new friends, the loss of old friends, and an entire new area of learning for my bardess (rp'd, not mechanics driven)-those are the areas that I think of when I think of this storyline =).

~Nichoel, the Muse.

This has been going on for ages.. it's always been this way. I too.. experienced frustration at not being to help in invasions. I think we all have at one point. One important thing to remember here.. and this is what I was told when I complained about this.. this is RP. This is roleplaying game. Plain and simple. Your character is in the Landing. Badness comes our way. We WANT our biggest baddest adventurers out there. We WANT strength at our gates so that TC is not overrun and Town is not filled with dangerous critters. You will get your turn. You think Rtune jumped off the turnip truck as strong as he is? Cryheart? Radeek? Ask them. They spent many hours of invasion time doing what they could, knowing one day, it would be their turn. This town would be reduced to rubble daily if not for the capped and close to cap folks out there, killing things in one cast. Instead of being jealous.. DEFINE your role. If you were the enemy, would you throw level 20 critters at town to try and win? No. If you were level 20, do you belong outside the gate trying to fight? No. Even level 40.. 50. Being able to stand the front lines and fight the big badness.. is earned. You earn that right by playing your character, gaining in strength until one day, you get to be there. I, as I am sure many others have, have played many online games. In NONE of them, can you take on the biggest and the baddest from day one.. even day two. Hell, I played EQ for a year before I could even think about high end raiding. Why should here be any different? I came BACK to GS because I missed the invasions. I missed the 'OMG, what can I do?" part of it.

Ephya has run to the front lines and been mushed every time. Rather than be a drain on healers and clerics, I don't do it anymore. Invasions are suppose to be an opposing force coming at us.. hard. They are not going to invade with Roltons and expect success. Put yourself in that moment and think .. "what can I do?". Yes. The towers can be boring. Rooftops as well.. trust me. I spent many an hour stuck in a tower because I could not leave due to the town being overrun. Roleplay it out. plain and simple. This storyline will end and others will come along.. and YOU will be standing on the front lines, dealing damage and dying like the rest of them do. One day, I will be there as well. For now. I stand in a tower, call out what I see through the windows and hit Stormyrain with arrows. I do the best I can with MY character to help the group as a whole... and I can tell you this.. we get 10-15 folks in the towers? It's a blast! One person calling out windows and everyone shooting. Cheering as a ballista hits something big. Giggling when we hit someone.

As for the RPA's. The blanket ones were nice. I didn't mind spending hours in a tower shooting arrows and not getting any exp for it. I knew, at some point, an RPA would come along and I could make up for that time I didn't get to spend hunting or getting exp. Then they changed so that you only got an RPA if you spoke and participated in whatever meeting was happening. No problem there.. as I tend not to sit quiet at those events anyway.

I hate to be blunt about it, but you have to roleplay this out. Trust me. You will get noticed. I did! I ran to my tower, called out bad guys, and Ephy got a Defender Title without ever once standing outside the gates, taking on invasions head on. Stand in TC. peer east and west. Call out bad guys in town. Jump the rooftops! Call out enemy forces there as well. Radeek, Rowmi, Rtune, Cryheart.. They listen for those and react to them. I have seen Cryheart tell some of his group to go into town and clear the area outside the bank. Be proactive and roleplay. Last night.. I saw a young lad who could not fight, handing out water and snacks to healers and clerics in TC. Think about them? Do you think they want to be chain raising, waiting for spirit to come back so they can raise the next one? Healers at must rest and keep healing, because they know they are needed. Everyone does their part. I have never seen someone die in Maags group where she didn't leave battle and take them to safety to rez them up. Do you think she WANTS to leave? No, but she does. Each and every time. Rozy! Die with her around. Voln fog to safety.. healing and rez. Think she wants to leave? no, but she does. Each and every time. It's a real event where we are defending our town. Plain and simple. Find a way to help and do it.

With the being said.. do I think the system is perfect? No, but there is no way to accommodate every single level for every single event. Be glad you CAN hunt still. When you are capped.. the options drop dramatically. Figure out who your character is.. and what your character would do to help when under attack and not strong enough to face them toe to toe. If the towers or rooftops aren't your thing or you simply don't want to.. set a ring for someplace out of town. I did that a few times. Right at the start of the trail to Solhaven. You don't want to help with the battle as best you can? Ring out and run there. I have done it when I simply did NOT want to man the towers and went and hunted in Solhaven. And I bet.. when the time comes and you are out there ready to fight invasion forces, you will be there. Standing side by side with those who are just as strong as you are and you will tell someone younger the same thing. Wanna be here? Earn it. I did.

<RPA'S given to capped folks while myself and other younger characters i know got none.>

You don't get an RPA for defending the gates. You get an RPA for roleplaying and participating in events. They are roleplaying awards meant to reward you for roleplaying. Some towns and areas have less events so less chances to get one, but RPA's are not handed out to capped players. The ONLY thing I have seen handed out to capped players is a bolt of lightening.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. How can you EARN an RPA. Well, you can learn the history of the lands, learn who people are and when a GM Run character ambles along, dazzle them with your insight. Kenstrom put a nice list of the NPC's on the boards. Add them to your highlight list, in Red.. or the color of your choice. When you see that color.. you KNOW this is your chance. Your character LIVES in this town. They should know what happened.. when it happened.. and to whom. They should form opinions. Attend events. Don't want to listen to Stephos? Great. Don't, but realize that when you walk away, you lose that chance. There is nothing more that the folks who roleplay in this game love more than to hand out opinions and their take on history. Listen.. and ask.

The older players may get more RPA's but it's because they KNOW how to get them. Show up! Participate! Jump on the bandwagon and start hating Ghrim now. So many options. NO one would roleplay if they handed out RPA's as you walk through the gate.

Some folks are here just to hunt. Rest.. hunt again. Their choice. Others are here for more than that and they work hard to get it. Ephy got her first RPA before she hit 20. I know how to get them. Look up Ephya in game. I will come talk to you and help you get more involved. Someone did that for me .. I am more than willing to pass on my learned lessons.

This is a very dear subject to me, because I fully support, and have tried to create ways, for people of all levels and professions to get involved in invasions. I think I've made some progress, but as it stands, it will never be perfect. Some of my invasions usually ramp up. I created lower levels, throw those out first, move up, etc etc. Usually in increments of 10 level increases. Last night? I planned on last night's events 5 minutes before they happened. Sometimes there's more planning, sometimes I wing stuff. Given the time zone differences, I wanted to get the action going, and I also wanted to create Walkar's first "outting" since he became the abomination to be something fierce and with a lot of deeds lost.

The invasion last night wasn't to ruin peoples fun, but it was to drive home a point of the threat so very close to town.

In the coming weeks, I'm going to try to add more rooftop access to allow for larger areas of town to be covered, as well as some buildings near the west side of town, which archers could conceivably fire arrows into the Wehnimer's Exterior/outside West gate area. Now I just had another thought, would it be to crazy to create climbable/tree tops so folks can move through the trees of Lower Dragonsclaw and fire on the enemies? Hmm. Thoughts?

I also want to create some new Burrow Way access into some in-town areas, such as the Defense Towers, so you can use the tunnels to come and go to fire on the enemy, without risking your neck going out into the streets. It's a process in motion, and as things evolve, I tweak here, add there, etc.

I'll also try to start incorporating more messaging during invasions, to help display the transition of levels of critters. I'll have to get creative to help it make sense so I don't just go (A messenger runs by and shouts, "Oh my Kai! Zombie roltons, with the same level of difficulty of an arch wight, give or take a bit!) No one wants that, hehe.

We also have an old auto-spawning tool that temporarily helps us invade with critters. It's not something I used a lot in the past, but as the player base of defenders has grown, I've had to use it more in the last five months. This could help when I try to drop different levels in different areas. So maybe lower at the gates, higher in Trollfang, mid-level Dragonsclaw, etc. This won't be everytime, as invasions will vary, tactics will change, the purpose will be different, but I definitely think there's room for improvement and I'll be trying to adjust some things.

But at the end of the day (a line I hate, by the way, and hear 50342344 times at work), it's also up to the players to put the communicate in community. No one should fill restricted in helping to defend, but also, no one should feel useless to defend. The quest for the perfect balance continues on.

-GM Kenstrom-
Waylayer of Wehnimer's Landing
Human Guru
Giantmen Guru

<You do not need to be in the middle of a GM active story moment to get RPAs. Act out your character, stay in character and play your character all the time and not just when you think a GM is looking. You will get noticed.

<Pup's Player

I had Radeek in Solhaven the day before Cross showed up the second time. He was praying at Phoen's Temple (yes, Radeek prays, almost every day) and it was dealing with the decisions we were all going to make the next night. There were two atmospheric messages I had never seen before in the temple. One, a stray beam of light streaming across his chest and the other was something to do with the orb at the center of the temple, which he had touched and was praying to. I assume they were the answers to his prayers, because he asked for a sign from Phoen, something he's never done before. He was also given an RPA. Now whether that was from praying or something else I have no idea. The point is, he was alone at the time, except for his wolf, Eclipse. So, to back up Pup's post (good post by the way) you don't have to be at the center of 50 people for these things to happen. Just find your characters comfort zone, pick up the ball, and RUN FORREST, RUN!


Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

Radeek Andoran
General, Drakes Vanguard
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq

<<Now I just had another thought, would it be to crazy to create climbable/tree tops so folks can move through the trees of Lower Dragonsclaw and fire on the enemies? Hmm. Thoughts?>>

YES PLEASE!

-=-

It would be neat if you logged into town during an invasion and got auto whisked away to one of these tunnels/towers what have you. I know my husband was playing last night, had a very limited time and wanted to work on some errands, and got hammered just by walking into a room. He plays sometimes in the half-hour of free time he has after getting ready for work and before he has to leave, and there were no outward signs of an invasion going on until he walked into a room in town and BAM, got dead.

It's one thing to know an invasion is going on and being prepared for it, and an entire other thing to log into a capped creature pummeling you on log in. If you logged in and some concerned guard escorted (poofed) you to a safe area, you could take part in the invasion via towers as a lower level, or spell up and then step outside the safe zone to bash some critters.

I know there should always be SOME risk in playing the game, but I'd rather a more conscious decision to take part in that risk rather than log into the wrong place at the wrong time. One is fun, one is frustrating.

It might seem like common knowledge to some that this storyline brings constant (?) invasions to the Landing, but we had no idea about that. In our time returned, and during our limited Summer play hours, this is the first invasion we've seen as part of this storyline. I watched the trial, read about the Sorcerer's invading the dead forest thing, and know there is a portal going to other hunting areas - but there was nothing said or read that indicated the Landing is under some sort of invade-at-will umbrella.

Ultimately, it was a minor inconvenience, but since people were putting up suggestions I thought to add what he experienced and a way to combat it. It annoyed him enough that he came downstairs to grumble about it to me, but not enough to pull him out of the game entirely. Really, all I'm saying is logging into death is not an enjoyable way to get involved.

My suggestion would go something like this:

-=-

Please wait for connection to game server.
Welcome to GemStone IV (R) v5.10
Copyright 2014 Simutronics Corp.
All Rights Reserved
*********************************************************************************************************

[Wehnimer's, Mikhail St.]
Loud clanging noises come from the yard to one side of the road. The yard is enclosed by a tall iron gate, welded to which is a peculiar sign in the shape of a horseshoe with crossed hammer and tongs upon it. Along the side of the street, dumped unceremoniously by the gate, is a heap of coal and a pile of dark-colored rocks.
Obvious paths: north, south

>A concerned guard hurries up to you, "Wehnimer's Landing is under attack! Follow me closely and I'll escort you to safety!"

>Using alleys, rooftops and tunnels, the heroic guardsman ushers you to a safe staging area. Without waiting, the guard hurries back into the fray in search of other stragglers.

[Land Tower East, Roof]
A small lean-to on the south side of the tower provides the on-duty guards with some shelter. You can see the roofs of town buildings to the south and southeast. To the east you can see two more guard towers, apparently sitting on either side of the river. To the northwest, you can see the road that leads to the main gate of Wehnimer's and, beyond it, to the shoreline. You also see a notched slitted window, a notched slitted window, a notched slitted window, a large ballista, a pile of white ora-tipped sharpened logs and a maoral cabinet.
Obvious paths: down

-=-

This would a) Get lowbies to places they can actually help in the invasion! And b) Get like-minded people in the same area to begin getting groups together, organize healing, and the like.

It's just a suggestion. :)

<I've personally witnessed on two occasions people lying about getting an RPA to other players. I almost made vathors eat them.

Aw, only "almost?"

I don't get why anyone would lie about that. It's OOC to talk about getting a roleplaying award, and anyone who says "Whee, RPA!" should have it taken away. It's not like there are bragging rights attached to RPAs; people can see if you're roleplaying or not, and whether you got an award for it doesn't change it. Maybe I'm rude, but I don't even say thank you to GMs when I get one because the whole point of it is that you're living in the moment as your character. (As this is an OOC post and I can totally say thank you now for any RPAs I've gotten since coming back -- thank you!) It's good that RPAs aren't automatically handed out at events or during invasions. Those things are fun in their own right and shouldn't need any sweeteners to get people to participate IC. If an RPA happens, great, but it doesn't retroactively affect how much fun I've had that night.

As for the level caps, yeah, it can make me a little antsy when I can't tackle what my friends are fighting all the time. The tiered invasions that send waves of increasingly high-level creatures are a good way to let those of us who aren't capped quite yet get in on the fun. When the heavier hitters arrive, I'm okay with staying mostly out of harm's way. I'll probably not contribute much damage for a while yet, but I can whisk someone who's stunned or bleeding to safety or keep the empaths from running dry.

Lylia's player

<Do any/all of these work only with Ranged weapons [i.e. "bows", be they draw or cross]? Or do they also work with Thrown [any/all, like handaxes, or only 'logical' ones, like spears]?

Good question. I've never tried hurled weapons. I know bolt spells of various types work well but hurling would be pretty cool too.

Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

Radeek Andoran
General, Drakes Vanguard
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq

>>Some of the best moments for both Pup and me the player has happen due to character to character interactions. No GM involved.

Seconded. Character to character interactions are what it is all about. Treat those NPCs that Kenstrom lists the same way you would any other character. That means keep on walking sometimes when it is the right thing for your character to do (especially if you only fight undead).


Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)

>You, sir. YOU have a mind that I approve of. :)

Now, coming from you, that's a tremendous compliment!

>(unless you've been really lucky with a merchant to work on the base item inside...)

Yes, my bandolier has been notably upgraded. ;-)

> if the critter picks them up they only get to use it for so long: they 'poof' to vapor after some time limit.
(I think it's like 90-120 seconds or so, but it's been a while since I checked; I do know that it's "not all that long, because the creature may still be alive--if it has turtled up on me--when it poofs."

Also correct, of course. But, to me, that would simply balance out the challenge it would present. I did a lot of hurling in Illoke, and the lower planes of the Rift and it was very disconcerting to have those creatures swinging my own axe at me. 90 seconds becomes a very long time, in those cases. That was my motivation to learn disarm. ;-)

~ Bill, Coyote.

<Uh, yes. Climbable tree-tops would be AMAZING!

A new home for all the MONKeys

Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

Radeek Andoran
General, Drakes Vanguard
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq

Shouldn't Rowmi be digging in the dirt to get in touch with those Roots? ;P

I have suggested before, and will again now. Have the story bad guy set up a magic barrier that only allows character below a certain level through, rather then the traditional above.

This would allow a temp hunting area that you can only enter if your below the age of say 20.

The complaint that is going to come though is then high level characters cant come rescue the dead.

The possible solution to that is have an auto mated npc like the vaalor guards that wander the woods and heal people or grab the dead and teleport them out. But then its going to happen automatically whether you want it to or not, and its still a wandering npc, it might not get to you immediately.