Since the Last Chance pool is already over 20% of people skipping out on a tier, I figured it's time to explain how this will work. Last Chance will take place after the storyline has ended. They will be very pricey, each having an addition Last Chance surcharge/raffle cost (this includes epic deepening). If you don't have the silver to participate, you will be walking away with no win in that tier. Services and items will go once by, if everyone passes during Last Chance, the service is officially forfeit.
~Wyrom, SGM
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GS4-WYROM
SHAYD11
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 12:39 PM CDT
It might have been helpful to tell us this before hand.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 12:39 PM CDT
As this is going to happen anyways I'd respectfully temper some of the surcharge pricing considering that a lot of this is the design of the tier timing. For instance, if padding was first you'd not have epic deepening available at the number it is, and the 7-11pm services could have been divided a bit differently because those are some of the most popular.
We aren't skipping Wyrom. We're waiting. It's different.
Respectfully,
-J of G
We aren't skipping Wyrom. We're waiting. It's different.
Respectfully,
-J of G
SHAD0WS0NGS
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 12:55 PM CDT
Hey, if they don't want 'em, I'll take a few of those coraesine weapons off your hands. No trouble!
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 01:12 PM CDT
We'll need to reconsider options for Last Chance offers in the future. While I understand people are waiting out for something they want, a lot of timing and scheduling went into the layout for CCF to the best of all of our abilities, and to be fair to people in the U.S. time zones.
It will likely be something we don't revisit for future events.
~Wyrom, SGM
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It will likely be something we don't revisit for future events.
~Wyrom, SGM
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TARQUAN
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 04:13 PM CDT
Hey Wryom
Just throwing out there that since you did auctions and nobody really knows what things are going to sell for(11m self mana?!) people could be just waiting to go to auction for things in the tiers that they want.
I don't think many people saw self knowledge going for more than the quiver for example. I know one person who has attended as many Tier 1 spins and raffles that they could and not won anything (yet).
While I understand what you are saying, I also don't know that the best thing to do would be to let people walk away with nothing as you put it. If someone came into the event with 150-175 million silvers thinking that would let them win an auction on a T1 item they had to wait for, I don't know that they should be punished for that? It seems equal part event design and player desire.
Just throwing out there that since you did auctions and nobody really knows what things are going to sell for(11m self mana?!) people could be just waiting to go to auction for things in the tiers that they want.
I don't think many people saw self knowledge going for more than the quiver for example. I know one person who has attended as many Tier 1 spins and raffles that they could and not won anything (yet).
While I understand what you are saying, I also don't know that the best thing to do would be to let people walk away with nothing as you put it. If someone came into the event with 150-175 million silvers thinking that would let them win an auction on a T1 item they had to wait for, I don't know that they should be punished for that? It seems equal part event design and player desire.
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 04:17 PM CDT
If you reread some of my older posts, I did say that cherry picking would come at a price. I said it several times. At the end of the day, the only person that gets punished is the person who has to pick up the extra hours of volunteer time to give out the left over services.
~Wyrom, SGM
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~Wyrom, SGM
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GS4-TAMUZ
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 04:20 PM CDT
I also had 3 slots of DB items get passed on completely. Either a new item, or adding to an existing item.
Poor little guys!
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
Poor little guys!
___
GemStone IV will be up shortly!
Sorry guys, my bad :(
VANKRASN39
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 04:30 PM CDT
>I also had 3 slots of DB items get passed on completely. Either a new item, or adding to an existing item.
Brielus, wherever he is, just died a little.
IQXERO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 04:44 PM CDT
>If you reread some of my older posts, I did say that cherry picking would come at a price. I said it several times. At the end of the day, the only person that gets punished is the person who has to pick up the extra hours of volunteer time to give out the left over services.
The event is 200 dollars, how is it cherry picking to pick our top service in each tier and wait for it? Maybe I'm not understanding the problem, but if a service goes buy with 7/10 claimed because people are waiting for something else it isn't the customers fault that that service is less desirable. Maybe punished is a strong word, but if someone skips a service they don't want for a service they do, and loses out on it, they are not getting what they wanted for their ticket price. So it's not just the GM that leaves the event unhappy.
I get this gets back in to a Simu has volunteer staff, but Simu brought in something like 10K for this weekend, I don't know that asking your customers to feel sorry that someone has to work some extra hours AND that they will be penalized for waiting for the service they want is the best play.
TRAINERTWO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:02 PM CDT
I don't think people should walk away with nothing at events like this... but I don't also think that means that people that want x item that is near the end, can safely assume that they can always get y item that had one or two left over in the beginning.
It's impossible to schedule everything so the most wanted items are first. I didn't expect to see that many people holding out for self knowledge. Thought just as many if not more would want self mana. Guess hunting in spell stripping places is more popular now.
It's always been that there is a chance you end up with the swimming tunic if you hold out for what you want, and so do 10 other people. Sometimes you take the good with the bad, and be grateful they are even re-offering services.
Then there is the fact that Wyrom said they will LIKLEY have a last chance. The original post never said it was a guarantee.
SHAYD11
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:11 PM CDT
I think the problem is like it makes sense for the GM who is doing undead bane to go ahead and do the pick a bane at the same time(Not picking on this gm at all, tier 1 had a weird order as well, spell knowledge is more coveted than db but sk was done after) cause its just easier. Unfortunately weighting and padding are more desirable to 90% of the player base. I think its a hard choice between putting them in order of what people covet so the customers can have the opportunity to get what they want most or to leave it to GM availability and realize theres going to be a lot of cherry picking cause people have preferences and most arent paying $180 for the chance at one of the non uber prizes. I think somewhere this is known as the spirit bow was raffled first and not last.
IQXERO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:12 PM CDT
>It's always been that there is a chance you end up with the swimming tunic if you hold out for what you want, and so do 10 other people. Sometimes you take the good with the bad, and be grateful they are even re-offering services.
This event offers no consolation prize. A quick google back for Foehn's promise from 2005 shows this list of consolation prizes:
1. FIXSKILLS
2. AGE reset
3. Mayhem Tattoo (custom scripted tattoo, very cool)
4. Three feature alterations
5. 2 custom ezscript commands for an item (must choose from a predefined list of commands, but the messaging can be unique).
6. 2500 Premium Points
And that was at a 75 bucks. This event has a ticket price of $200.00. Now, nobody paid that because everybody got their premium discount, but that's still over 150 bucks for a ticket.
If you want me to gamble at 30 dollars, 75 dollars even, okay. I get that. Sometimes I'll be unlucky. But this is a super premium 200 dollar ticket price event. Why should customers be required to settle for their second choice?
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:16 PM CDT
>> Why should customers be required to settle for their second choice?
Because the format for this event wasn't "Come in and tell us what you would like from each tier and we will provide it." It was, "Here is the schedule of events that you can participate in."
-- Robert
Because the format for this event wasn't "Come in and tell us what you would like from each tier and we will provide it." It was, "Here is the schedule of events that you can participate in."
-- Robert
TRAINERTWO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:28 PM CDT
<If you want me to gamble at 30 dollars, 75 dollars even, okay. I get that. Sometimes I'll be unlucky. But this is a super premium 200 dollar ticket price event. Why should customers be required to settle for their second choice?
So they should have given away 33 spirit Bows?
90% of the time, you get your second/third/fourth choice.
IQXERO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:38 PM CDT
This is my fault for being unclear, and I apologize. I understand the first tier being limited. I was not including it when I was considering this because of it's power.
I was also unclear about what I meant by settle. If you want A, and B, and you end up with B, that's fine. But if you really want B, and kinda want A, and you pass up all of the A spins so you can get the one you really want and then don't get it, you are having to pay a premium (now) to get your second choice. You would be settling to just buy A first because it would save you silvers, and not ever have a chance for B.
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/29/2014 05:42 PM CDT
Whoa.
Please go reread what I originally posted in this thread. No where did I say you weren't getting anything. This event ends this weekend. It doesn't drag out the entire week, as the shopping isn't the focal point. So we need to do the "Last Chance" Sunday. I didn't expect so many to push off services to hold out for certain things. So when I planned it out, I planned for 30 minutes. But since that has to be revisited, I made the post to prepare everyone.
All I said is it would be pricey surcharge. Did not list a price. Did not list a format. If you can't afford it, or you choose to continue to pass, I'm not going to sit here and keep going through over and over. Of course I'll be going in a manner that is most desired in a descending fashion.
But I'm letting everyone know, you need to be there, and you need to choose then. After that, we close up, and the event is over.
No one is saying you're required to "settle" on giant services. But once we're done, we're done.
Foehn's Promise was also single item and some shops, so let's not compare two different events. You're getting 5 services that are in a caliber that probably won't be around for a long while.
A schedule was provided to plan things out. You can't blame us if you want to hold out. Like you said, it's a gamble.
Read my posts as a forewarning, not a threat.
~Wyrom, SGM
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Please go reread what I originally posted in this thread. No where did I say you weren't getting anything. This event ends this weekend. It doesn't drag out the entire week, as the shopping isn't the focal point. So we need to do the "Last Chance" Sunday. I didn't expect so many to push off services to hold out for certain things. So when I planned it out, I planned for 30 minutes. But since that has to be revisited, I made the post to prepare everyone.
All I said is it would be pricey surcharge. Did not list a price. Did not list a format. If you can't afford it, or you choose to continue to pass, I'm not going to sit here and keep going through over and over. Of course I'll be going in a manner that is most desired in a descending fashion.
But I'm letting everyone know, you need to be there, and you need to choose then. After that, we close up, and the event is over.
No one is saying you're required to "settle" on giant services. But once we're done, we're done.
Foehn's Promise was also single item and some shops, so let's not compare two different events. You're getting 5 services that are in a caliber that probably won't be around for a long while.
A schedule was provided to plan things out. You can't blame us if you want to hold out. Like you said, it's a gamble.
Read my posts as a forewarning, not a threat.
~Wyrom, SGM
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DAID
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 07:36 AM CDT
I really appreciate all the hard work the GMs are putting in.
I can at least say from my end, of all the T1 wins I'd want given the whole list, only DB had gone unclaimed. I planned last year to enter anything I'd want, and I happened to win DB, and I kind of wanted something different this year. Otherwise, I was one of the ones who swiped up my T4 and T2s already. I was late in line for the T5 last night so I just went to sleep and I'll grab that later (unless a lot of other people who were 30th in line got the same idea?!)
I think some of us just saw "very pricey" and got concerned. Would I take DB again? Sure if I can't get a raffle on armor scripting. But I think it is fair for players to say that if a lot of things were getting skipped, it just attests to the order of the schedule and what people really wanted. This isn't intended as a criticism; there was no way to predict the player pool. And obviously the more things that are skipped, the more GM time it takes to re-offer services again.
So it's absolutely reasonable to say there will be one last chance and that's it. But please don't give us the *hole tax too strongly. We did pay a lot of real money for these tickets. Some tax is definitely expected, though.
~daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
I can at least say from my end, of all the T1 wins I'd want given the whole list, only DB had gone unclaimed. I planned last year to enter anything I'd want, and I happened to win DB, and I kind of wanted something different this year. Otherwise, I was one of the ones who swiped up my T4 and T2s already. I was late in line for the T5 last night so I just went to sleep and I'll grab that later (unless a lot of other people who were 30th in line got the same idea?!)
I think some of us just saw "very pricey" and got concerned. Would I take DB again? Sure if I can't get a raffle on armor scripting. But I think it is fair for players to say that if a lot of things were getting skipped, it just attests to the order of the schedule and what people really wanted. This isn't intended as a criticism; there was no way to predict the player pool. And obviously the more things that are skipped, the more GM time it takes to re-offer services again.
So it's absolutely reasonable to say there will be one last chance and that's it. But please don't give us the *hole tax too strongly. We did pay a lot of real money for these tickets. Some tax is definitely expected, though.
~daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
TARQUAN
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 08:22 AM CDT
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I just don't agree that in an auction format people should be upset that someone skipped "other banes" to then spend several hundred million on padding.
Call me a cherry picker, I guess, because I would have done the same thing.
Call me a cherry picker, I guess, because I would have done the same thing.
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 08:35 AM CDT
>>Call me a cherry picker, I guess, because I would have done the same thing.
But that's your choice. That's the point here. You're taking that risk to go for something, in your mind, better. This venue, you're getting 5 guaranteed tiers of services. All you have to do is show up. The sense of entitlement that came after I posted is something that will not, nor ever, settle right with me.
~Wyrom, SGM
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But that's your choice. That's the point here. You're taking that risk to go for something, in your mind, better. This venue, you're getting 5 guaranteed tiers of services. All you have to do is show up. The sense of entitlement that came after I posted is something that will not, nor ever, settle right with me.
~Wyrom, SGM
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GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 08:46 AM CDT
You guys have a very generous SGM who definitely fights for the betterment of GS as a whole. The stuff I do, like this Last Chance, isn't even stuff that we do regularly. I just try to deliver quality events. The least people can do is see that we're offering this privilege of allowing you to even choose, even if there is some risk of getting hit with a surcharge, which just meant it was going to be comparable to the surcharges, and not just a 1000 coin raffle fee. But instead, I feel like it's biting the hand that feeds.
~Wyrom, SGM
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THORNBROOK
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 09:12 AM CDT
>>You're taking that risk to go for something, in your mind, better.
Not all skipping is because we wanted something better as the public defines it, but a better match for the character we brought to attend. My own view and choices came from what project pieces I had before attending the event. This was the place to come to bring items closer to completion and hopefully to make use of the high ceiling for restrictions in place. DB being a good example, I currently have none. Starting a new project...well I had no idea where I'd even begin. What item or slot would I want to use for a brand new DB item? What character of mine would get it? Now if I had a 4x+ DB item already, heck yes I'd use my spot enchanting it up even if I then lose out on a more valuable service.
Has been a fantastic festival. The item and service choices, the schedule, and the pricing all show just how much thought and effort you guys put into planning this. Certainly must have been tough not knowing who the 50 attendees would be and what interests and items they'd be bringing. Thank you guys for everything.
Lochiven
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 09:17 AM CDT
Lets rein this in a little bit and put it into perspective. This is Nindon's work, but he's allowing us to share with his permission.
Just an hour until we start again. Here is my last list from yesterday. After Saturday Flares Overall: 152/250 T1: 34/50 T2: 45/50 T4: 48/50 T5: 25/50 Of the 165 services offered so far, 152 (or 92%) have been claimed. It's possible the last two people got their T4s. Basically all that's left is (a) all of T3, (b) five T2 pick-a-banes, (c) half of the T5 flares, and (c) the following T1 items: hidding bracer, two impure coraesines, three DBs, and the ten script slots.
The claim rate has climbed drastically after yesterday. The Last Chance surcharge should only affect about 11 people maximum (The 6 T1s and the 5 T2s) unless people skip scripts, but why would they. It has been a good festival after I got over my moodiness. :)
Knowing Wyrom for the 50 of us who attended even a surcharge will probably be reasonable. All of us already saved money in services vs. RtCF
Just an hour until we start again. Here is my last list from yesterday. After Saturday Flares Overall: 152/250 T1: 34/50 T2: 45/50 T4: 48/50 T5: 25/50 Of the 165 services offered so far, 152 (or 92%) have been claimed. It's possible the last two people got their T4s. Basically all that's left is (a) all of T3, (b) five T2 pick-a-banes, (c) half of the T5 flares, and (c) the following T1 items: hidding bracer, two impure coraesines, three DBs, and the ten script slots.
The claim rate has climbed drastically after yesterday. The Last Chance surcharge should only affect about 11 people maximum (The 6 T1s and the 5 T2s) unless people skip scripts, but why would they. It has been a good festival after I got over my moodiness. :)
Knowing Wyrom for the 50 of us who attended even a surcharge will probably be reasonable. All of us already saved money in services vs. RtCF
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 09:43 AM CDT
Yes, the team that has been working on this event has been amazing. Big thank you to Vanah for helping me get a lot of the passed people.
And Lochiven, I understand what you're saying. That side of the argument isn't what rubbed me the wrong way.
~Wyrom, SGM
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And Lochiven, I understand what you're saying. That side of the argument isn't what rubbed me the wrong way.
~Wyrom, SGM
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TALLKRIS4
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 10:22 AM CDT
I get the last chance stuff and the cherry picking to a degree (although running a last chance promotes cherry picking) My only issue is that the impure coraesine is a T1 that could possibly be stuck to someone that's never going to be able to use it. Having to be a swinging edged user and attuned makes attaching that to T1 a little on the unfair side.
My suggestion in the future offer an alternate prize to the impure coraesine since it's attuned and applies to a limited market. What I'm not sure as what I personally feel is a T1 and what the staff feels as a T1 is different. It doesn't have to be equal in value, but at least something that would leave you not stuck with a T1 you could never use (maybe major elemental flares)
Just my two cents
My suggestion in the future offer an alternate prize to the impure coraesine since it's attuned and applies to a limited market. What I'm not sure as what I personally feel is a T1 and what the staff feels as a T1 is different. It doesn't have to be equal in value, but at least something that would leave you not stuck with a T1 you could never use (maybe major elemental flares)
Just my two cents
GS4-WYROM
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 10:24 AM CDT
If someone who can't use the impure gets stuck with it. We'll talk.
~Wyrom, SGM
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KITHUS
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 10:38 AM CDT
Perhaps you could offer adamantine, kroderine or zelnorn as an alternative to impure coraesine?
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
ALUVIUS
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 10:52 AM CDT
This player base is its own worst enemy sometimes.
SHAD0WS0NGS
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 11:09 AM CDT
Loving the fest Wyrom and co.! Thanks for all the hard work.
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 12:41 PM CDT
I have tried very hard to enter as much stuff as I thought I could make good use of, and even a couple I knew I couldn't, and I've still wiffed on T1's left and right, and a whole bunch of other stuff when my odds were very good. That's just the way it goes sometimes. At least I can say I wasn't Zenmagic who was the only ticket to enter TD that didn't get pulled... 10/11. Ouch.
I think tier 1 was difficult just because there were so many good choices. All in all I think this is going to run very smoothly. The number of people looking at last chance is a pretty short list considering, and no one is going to whine that db isn't good enough. They'll get snapped up.
Thanks again for putting this together,
Kerl
I think tier 1 was difficult just because there were so many good choices. All in all I think this is going to run very smoothly. The number of people looking at last chance is a pretty short list considering, and no one is going to whine that db isn't good enough. They'll get snapped up.
Thanks again for putting this together,
Kerl
TRAINERTWO
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 12:52 PM CDT
On a side note. I have to give props to the one person that wanted the Impure.
Seems no one else wanted it, and thinks it's a junk T1. Maybe you should give him a second one to make it more in line with other T1's.
JHYNNIFER
Re: Last Chance and You
03/30/2014 11:58 PM CDT
Wyrom
I have to agree with you here. From the first announcement of the RTCF weekend you have gone above and beyond, shown an insane amount of patience and throughout you've still managed to keep up the great level of customer service we've seen from you for years now. I think all of the GMs did a fantastic job and were universally easy to work with and helpful. Was the scheduling perfect? Maybe not, but the Last Chance offerings you did more than made up for that. So thank you for what turned out to be a fun (and maybe a smidge stressful) weekend.
Thank you!
- Jennifer, Riend's player
I have to agree with you here. From the first announcement of the RTCF weekend you have gone above and beyond, shown an insane amount of patience and throughout you've still managed to keep up the great level of customer service we've seen from you for years now. I think all of the GMs did a fantastic job and were universally easy to work with and helpful. Was the scheduling perfect? Maybe not, but the Last Chance offerings you did more than made up for that. So thank you for what turned out to be a fun (and maybe a smidge stressful) weekend.
Thank you!
- Jennifer, Riend's player
