<<With no large groups coming in>>

I've been wondering about this myself, so I'll use this as an opportunity to ask those of you who haven't signed up a few questions:

I know this is the first foray into the world of small, cooperative quests, but if you haven't signed up, what's making you think twice beforehand? We seem to be selling out of the custom-scheduled events, but the general admission ones are only getting two or three people to buy in. Are the times not convenient? Is the quest too long? Too expensive?

Let me know!

---

Hi Solomon,

I was in the second run and don't plan on signing up for another public run. The primary reasons, for me at least, being the inability to group up with like level characters or to group with a good character mix. Given these are both reasonably significant success factors in the event, and the lack of tools in place to assist in managing this, it makes sense that folks who can put together an appropriate group would do so through the custom-scheduled event, and those that can't will either take their chances or pass.

Additionally, I think there has been a lot of bad experiences and frustration voiced on the forums which would also discourage folks from signing up with a random group. I did not enjoy my first experience in the world of small, cooperative quests. The experience did not meet my expectations on many levels - I was expecting to be challenged by puzzles (either mental or mechanical) but really it was more of a search-a-thon. I was expecting combat to be a portion of the adventure, but our experience was more like that of a full on invasion for three hours. I'm sure there was a lot of interesting lore and history worked into the event, but with the number of folks in our group, the near constant combat, and all the moving about, I really wasn't able to take in or enjoy any of it as it was scrolling off my screen before I could even skim it.

At the start of the event, I expected a bit more direction, fanfare, something? but it felt more like we were just dumped into a room. Possibly we missed some of the intro by wandering down a path at the wrong time. I was glad to see the coach collect me at start but was rather surprised (and annoyed) when I had to find my own way back to Teras at the conclusion. At the end I was pretty much glad it was over vs. excited that we had taken part in some great event.

Prior to my run, I committed to going on a private run for characters in their mid 50s (and in fact was trying to organize such a run). I'm hopeful that some of the changes that have been made will make for a better 2nd experience. Note that while I hope we "win" this time around, I don't believe this is a necessary requirement for having a good experience. I'm still having second thoughts on going though given how significant a role perception plays in this event. The character I wanted to bring, a paladin, isn't trained in perception so my feeling is that he may be more of a hinderance to the group than a bonus.

-- Robert

I was on the fence about joining mostly because I'm only a level 16 Sorcerer and I'd just be a drag on the higher level groups. I had talked to a few people in game around my level about joining one of the under 20 groups that starts at today at 8:00 PM, but when I went to look at the roster I saw that a level 50 had signed up so that wasn't gonna work. The other under 20 group is tomorrow but its too early for me as it would be starting at 6 in the morning. Figure most people in the game have higher level characters so I'm probably not the audience that this event is made for.

I had been in a similar quest around Halloween '97 called Black Swan, it was a small group and we had to cooperate with each other to figure out the puzzles of the castle. I don't remember if there was level restrictions for different groups, but at that time there was no shortage of low levels to join up with.

Definitely appreciating everyone's input!


Solomon

I haven't run it yet, but will next weekend. That said, I thin the biggest knock on it is in the level range disparity. You need to figure out how to get people grouped within level ranges. Alternatively, you can figure out how to make level not matter in the quest, but in my experience, most of those solutions are a lot less fun.

Kerl

For my part, I just can't stay up as late as I used to. I plan to attend, but either a custom scheduled one or a weekend run.

Godefroy

Morvule hisses, "Ssssally ssssellssss sssseashellssss by the sssseasssshore."

Too expensive. Puzzle is just search-a-thon, not really much puzzle involved. Implosion casting capped undead just suck, period. Grouping like level people is rough with random signups.

Definitely agree that it works better as an EG addition. Just not compelling enough as a stand-alone pay event.

Prizes are ridiculously limited too. Enhancives should have been pick a skill, and have relevant stats enhanced along with the skill you choose.

-Richard/Fjalar.

There's nothing overly specific. I just liked the large prize pool from Droughtman's more.

Can't...stop...collecting...fluff...

I have several suggestions to improve this quest:


Offer SOLO runs instead of group runs with reduced artifacts.
Offer hints that increase in helpfulness the closer you get to the end of your time.

Get rid of implosion, get rid of disarm, get rid of anything that will cause item loss. This is supposed to be fun and losing your valuables is not fun, being prevented from using fun toys because of these outdated item loss mechanics is not fun either.

Instead of a shifting maze, a maze that shifts for each run. That way it's "fresh" for each run, but doesn't refresh while you're inside to avoid frustration, and to allow people to map the maze as
the creator suggested.

Remove the sanctuary stripping mechanics.

Instead of having to search every room, have certain small areas contain the artifacts so it's not all about searching every room and more about combating your way to the treasure rooms where you search for the artifact. You could have guards outside these artifact containing treasure rooms so there is something blocking the artifact, it would also indicate that an artifact may be found here.


When you arrive at the event, you're provided a "quest" kit to prepare you for the event.
- It has some goggles that provide 20-40 perception ranks for characters who have no perception training but still want to participate in the event.
- It has a blessing potion that blesses your primary weapon so you can combat the undead in the quest.
- It has a safety sphere that can be tossed to create an unbreakable sanctuary.

>> Get rid of implosion, get rid of disarm, get rid of anything that will cause item loss.
>> I'm sorry but no event we pay for should have this potential outcome.

This. With about 100 !'s after it. There is no way losing something you very likely worked hard on, over a very long period of time, should get permanently taken away from you for an event you PAID ADDITIONAL money to attend. Particularly when, as Galenok pointed out, there was absolutely no mention of it by staff prior.

>> Remove the sanctuary stripping mechanics.

Seriously. My group had two empaths, one capped, one 51. Between the two of us most of our time was spent along the lines of: CAST 213 / dispel / CAST 213 / dispel / CAST 213 / dispel. Over and over and over into the realm of absurdity. Not just so we could search a room or read a description, but so we could get the 3-4 dead party members back on their feet. There's no reason to have this here, it's not helping. Given the time constraints and # of artifacts which need to be found it's not like we can just hide in a room with sanc on it and win the game. We're going to have to move around, but at least give a group the opportunity for a breather if they need it.

My two largest complaints about our run were the perpetual onslaught of undead, and the fact that the event had been marketed as "puzzles and quests" but in reality was, as Faulkil put it, a 3 hour long invasion. I have never in my life been bothered by any amount of screen scroll, but the scroll from that three hours gave me a borderline migraine which took until the next day to shake off. So here's some suggestions:

First off, the combat/scroll is a crime because it prevents players from actually absorbing or enjoying the detail that went into the event. Honestly, I couldn't have told you a single thing about the Academy after our run, about the lore songs, the storyline, nothing. Having gone back and read some of the logs I found that was a shame because there was a lot of very excellent detail there. I would suggest that you make the Academy safe. Leave the masses of undead in the maze, so players are going to have to put due diligence in to combat there to find the artifacts within and find the fracture, but give them the time within the walls of the Academy to READ. To puzzle, explore, and pass out from stress if necessary. Let the rogue sit in the hallway and pick locks if that's what they choose to do, let people wander around from room to room, search, regroup. If you wanted to have the orchard full of the undead, fine. But at least give us the opportunity enjoy the flavor of the work that went into this instead of fighting for 3 hours solid and needing a quart of Tylenol after.

Additionally, I would attempt to add more puzzle to the adventure. Instead of having an empty case with a plaque telling you "Here's what you need -- go find it!", spread clues out inside the building; in a portrait, a letter, someone's armoire or bookshelf. This exchanges the time spent endlessly slaughtering (or being slaughtered by) undead for actual puzzle solving, collaboration with other members of the party, and perhaps instilling more of a sense of the story behind it all.

The worst part of the event is clearly the level disparity. Since there are no mechanics in place to permit public signups based on level, then possibly y'all should just chalk this one up to private charter. Continue to advertise it, yes, but let folks sort out their own groups to prevent that lone 100 from killing, and having their own time, killed by disparity. If you want to provide a means for single players to be able to sign up, maybe create some additional threads on the forums per level grouping where they can find others and figure out a well-balanced group.

~Niadja

I think what I am reading is that the mechanics over-roode the story. Or perhaps the story was missed altogether by those who signed up. I went into this event thinking that some big bad nasties had stolen some stuff, and in order to make everything right in the world we would have to fight them, find the items and replace them. Having completed this quest in the first run before it was nerfed, I came out of this event with those expectations met.

The things I knew, going into this, was that with our group ranging from 14, to cap, was that it wasn't going to be a cakewalk. I understood that the bad guys were going to gen against the cap characters present. Having fought undead for years, I had a pretty good idea that any sanctuary cast would have a chance of being dropped.

Things I did not know, but made sense for the story being told were that there is no safe spot once the quest begins, and that sometimes bad guys cast voids. They also cast major ewave, which IMO, is a helluva lot worse than a void, beside the point.

The only thing I have heard that made me go hmm, was the diarming tactics. It did not happen to anyone in my group, but I can't say it wasn't attempted either.

We found every artifact, we placed every artifact, we kicked the bad guys in the butt, we saved the world.

Without gen rates lowered, without messaging guiding us (aside from the announcer giving us time/total updates), without areas made safe, with the maze shifting, and with capped creatures at every turn.

I feel like everything was exactly as I expected it to be.

The only drawback or downside that saw or feel someway about was the deathsting, but that was my choice, and it's already gone.. no potion use either. The other thing I feel slighted about was that I feel we likely left millions of silvers worth of treasure behind, that stings more than anything else.

An RPA at the end, completed quest or not, would be a nice boon. If it's there already, well then good show!

~
From behind the cell door, a giantman's gruff voice shouts, "You should have killed me when you could have!"

Reasons for my not signing up currently.
1. The level disparity, those folks I'd like to go with and trust to be good teammates all have characters that vary in level from my own. I'd really want a solid core in my run so I'm not just gambling on the skill/attitudes/attention of 2-9 other players. If you could find a way to equalize everyone's level that would make signups a bit easier. I realize balance would suffer as people that are higher then the assumed eqalized level would have more skills/spells/cmans than that level would normally provide.
2. Item loss. When someone commented that they experienced a disarm during their run when this wasn't indicated before tickets went on sale I was rather upset. I realize this information is now in the QUEST verb, but item loss should never be a part of a pay quest or even a storyline for that matter. If disarm was in play, how paranoid should I be if I was to sign up? Do I need to double bag everything in case ithzir are included on the run?
3. I'm not sure about the death's sting, I think it would be a medium deterrent to myself or at least it might keep me from signing up on my bard as I'm currently a bit more eager to level him than my other guys.

Suggestions
1. Perhaps tie the amount of swarming to the number of artifacts left to be found. When all 10 are still hidden things can start off crazy (this is also at the very beginning before fatigue might set in)
Every artifact you find or perhaps place in proper location turn off 1 creature generator. As the night progresses you should get more efficient both due to mechanics (less creatures), experience, and a system of exploration (player mapping or whatever system players choose to cover the most area in their searches).
2. Not sure if this one is currently in place, but I really want to be able to enjoy the loresongs assigned to the artifacts. If i'm racing against the clock and miss it when the item is placed let me have a way to enjoy it later.
3. For the items that aren't previously known, the scripts/verb traps being announced would make them far more appealing all around. I personally couldn't justify a 4x scripted weapon being a prize I'd pick unless I saw the scripts. If one or more of them fit a character of mine superbly..it's value skyrockets. After all I'm going to pick something I want to put to use.
4. Make the enhancive items account bound. If I want to experience the quest on a specific character who would appreciate it more, or perhaps I have to bring a specific character due to profession or level...but we win and I get a prize, be nice if I could use it on whoever I want.

Compliments
1. Your frequent responses, hints, suggestions, and tweaks from player input is wonderful.
2. Letting lower characters participate even though they're naturally going to have low perception is good.
3. The room hints about being close/very close to an artifact sounds very appreciated.
4. Prizes have a nice variety and some are very sought after. I know some will switch in and out which is a neat setup.


Lochiven

there are two main points keeping me from signing up. One is a lack of groups in my training range. The second one is i'm still waiting for the bugs to be ironed out and for a good balance to be found. If those things can kind of get resolved, chances are i will sign up.

Since, with the way this event is built, there isn't an RP-centric reason to pay actual money (and not be concerned with a specific 'item' prize) I won't sign up because the prize is a temporary one. If this had some sort of character-defining consequence/reward that would carry over to the actual game world, I would consider it.

At least with paying cash for EG, I might not be guaranteed merchant work, but when I get it, 99.9% of the time it never disappears and I have the chance for multiple opportunities for work. 99.9% of the time it's also not attuned to one character either, regardless of how powerful the work I got.

-farmer

The cost versus reward. The rewards, while potentially worthwhile, are temporary. Not to say all are, but the only ones I value from the list. I much prefer more character defining prizes, too, and if those were offered I would be much more interested.. custom titles, signature stuff, ez scripts, loresongs, etc.

My experience with the Academy run in plat.

I signed up for the event the morning of my run in plat. There were two others signed up, a young warrior (13) and a wizard (18). I was heavily discouraged by this due to the negativity surrounding a level spread. Regardless, I signed up on my 46 rogues. In hope of some fun and promise of treasure.

46 Rogue, 13 warrior, 18 wizard entered the maze.
We split up because of the creature genning in hopes that my creatures wouldn't get them, and i'd clean mine up quickly.

I find an artifact within the first minute, creatures spawn on me.

You draw back the string on your blue-grey ruic longbow and a straight ruic arrow shimmers into view.
You fire a straight ruic arrow at a moaning scholar!
AS: +314 vs DS: +354 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +8 = -1
A clean miss.
The arrow splinters into tiny slivers.

Okay, so, I can't kill something spawned for me. Leave the room.
Catch up with my party, and I tell them what happened. I get my artifact and decide to place it in a disk for if I fall my teammates can pick it up and move on.

As you go to place a venerable crimson eahnor shield in the red Ivstinianvs disk, the discordant hum in the area rises to a screech! A violent arc of blue energy leaps from the Ivstinianvs disk and strikes you!
... 60 points of damage!
Electric shock causes a strong enough convulsion to snap your neck.

Reported, no response.
I was under the impression if you put it in the wrong case in the keep this would happen.

Death, Decay, no cleric or healer. I wait it out and recover.
45 Minutes later and multiple spawn cycles popping on the gate.
Other two teammates die from the same thing.

The guard at the gate doing his ambient actions of hearing a noise in the bush while 12 things are in the room moaning and groaning.

I pop out of the path, and so do my teammates to grab some herbs and come back. The path isn't there, report again.
Short while passes and a GM shows up trying to fix it, a second GM shows up trying to fix it.

I whisper the GM about the artifact in disk problem and got the following response,

player whispers, "Ah. I would suggest keeping the item on you then."

I was ready to just log out and walk away.

15-20 minutes pass and the path re-appears, we venture in.

We seperated and found all the artifacts within 30 minutes. We turned in all but a few. Put one in the wrong case and zap goes another player. Wait for her to recover, spell her up, make our way back through the maze and finished within 2 minutes of the allotted time.

We exit, treasure time!
I couldn't decide, so I took my time browsing the forums for more details.
I decided and went to pick something up and got a message along the lines of.
You can't pick that up, so you don't.

I put myself in an assist queue Friday, I played a handful of hours saturday and sunday. It is now monday at 5:15 PST.

This has been one of the most frustrating experiences i've had AND I had to pay for it.

>>I don't think the armor/runestaves etc are attuned or crumble. I also believe the crumbliness was removed for items so you still have it even if it doesn't enhance any longer
Velvette

>The only prize items that are attuned are the enhancive items. No prize item is crumbly.
Alyias


>Only the enhancive prizes and a few select other prizes are "temporary" in nature, insofar as however long it takes you to run through the charges. There are many prizes that are fluff and decked out armor and weapons that are quite permanent in nature.
Alyias


I didn't mean crumbly, I meant it has a limited number of charges that will not be refilled, thus making it temporary, not "temporary". Once they charges are out, you get a nicely altered bit of character locked fluff. As for the rest of the prizes, they're (currently) not worth the cost of a ticket which makes the enhancives the prizes I'm more focused on.


-farmer

I liked the event, an even if your question was to those that didnt sign up, I still have a small bit of input.


The ability to choose prizes was great, personally ID like to have seen someting specificly archery related other then just stat enhansive clothing but I do really like the boots.

I really dont think many people understood how much experience you could learn from this quest even if you killed NOTHING..

Finally the ability to find your way through the maze and get out the other side is dumbfounding sometimes, a group of 5 all working together almost all capped, still could not find the way to the crevasse for almost 45 minutes.. an we had been there once. Perhaps even if the maze shifts, once you find it the first time some additional clue or sense as to how to return to it. Sending someone out to find one last item with 20 minutes left, is pointless if the maze shifts. They might find the last item, but odds are they will never find there way out of the maze again and as the creature pressure builds it just gets progressively harder then it was the first time to find the way out and if you have a full head who wants to risk that knowing you likely are going to die an loose the exp.

>>Catch up with my party, and I tell them what happened. I get my artifact and decide to place it in a disk for if I fall my teammates can pick it up and move on.

This oversight has been fixed (putting artifacts into disks).

-Alyias

Has anyone selected the skirt? I'm curious if it's the same skirt as one I already own (just a different look), or if there's something else about it that makes it special and/or unique?

♫ Arpelli ♫

>By sheer luck one of our people got imploded

Frankly not often a set of phrases you often hear together in the same sentence - sheer luck and got imploded. Sorry, just passing through - LNN

-Anonymous