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SCRAPPERK
Storylines and YOU!
10/02/2012 10:40 PM CDT
The discussion about town invasions in the Landing folder got me to thinking, in general. In the world we play in, we chose the role of adventurer. We fight, we die, we fight and die some more. In between the time of becoming a legend, hero, famous or infamous, perhaps we strive to learn some trade.. be it blacksmith, cobbler or alchemist. Foremost, however, we are adventurers. So I wonder, what type of story can we create, that will embrace everyone, and leave the invasions aside? Is this the type of story that the people want? Or, do we not want the GM's to do anything more than govern the game and hunt scripters?
What I am getting at I suppose, is level of involvement. Do we want our characters to make an impact on the actual world at large? Do we want to become part of something that will change everything from that moment on? Write our name in history, or become a bit player? These questions come to me because for me personally, I want to change the world. I don't necessarily care for the fights, and I would much rather forgo the fight and hash it all out through RP. I recognize that there is a need to create a dire situation that is believable and immersible, so I accept that occasionally my character is going to die by his own actions, (that is, by getting involved). The game itself does create limits to what can be done to increase this immersion, but there are certainly limitless ways to get involved without raising your weapon, or casting a spell. Again, all it takes to do this, it to choose a place to stand and stay there. There is certainly nothing forcing us to play along with any storyline that comes down the pike, but I have to wonder something else.
I have played this game for a long time. I remember the Vvrael, I remember The Baron, Meyno, I also remember over 2500 players being in game and involved when these things happened. I also remember the long dry drought that descended on Gemstone where nothing at all happened, and our numbers dropped to the 300's. I prefer something happening, so I ask all of you this question in all seriousness. What type of story will get you involved? Do you need Action Plan 47, Evil Overlord vs Improbable Hero, or will it be simply roleplaying with NPCs, with no battles to win?
~
From behind the cell door, a giantman's gruff voice shouts, "You should have killed me when you could have!"
JHERBSTREIT
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 01:02 AM CDT
I really, REALLY like the idea of storylines without invasions. Of course I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now (the migraine doesn't help), but we have some really creative people in this game and I'm sure there are tons of storylines they could come up with. My hubby even suggested a storyline involving stealthy assassins, versus full out crazy invasions.
Because the player base is so small at the moment, good RP can sometimes be hard to come by. A storyline based solely on RP would be super awesome, in my book.
LUNATUNES
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 10:43 AM CDT
I also love the idea of a storyline heavy on intrigue and plots and lighter on the getting-flattened-by-demons. My main is closer to capping than I ever dreamed I would get, so I can survive but if I measured the excitement of surviving-flattening against the excitement of setting-something-bigger-than-me-in-motion, the latter wins hands down.
I know that our world of semi-Tolkeinesque fantasy particularly lends itself to the Evil Overlord (tm) trope, but there are definitely are other stories out there that could be told. One potential snag I can see is intriguey/plotty stories tend to involve fewer people. Another is there are limitations to the drama you can build when there's no actual danger to player-characters. It's the rare character that displays any real fear of death. I'm sure we could play out an Elanthian Othello drama, that story is limited to a handful of people and pretty much everyone involved has to re-roll at the end.
When designing a storyline, I'm sure one of the goals is to involve as many people as you can, to spread the excitement around to anyone who wants to throw their hat into the ring. Sure, there are vast stories like the Game of Thrones, but I think from a story management perspective, juggling something on the scale of GoT, could be nightmarish for a few GMs. And even GoT is loaded up with wars and death.
So with these in mind, what stories can we tell? I know Kenstrom has done some mini-stories which were well recieved in WL, people helping the militia in apprehending some criminals and whatnot. Deaths of notable NPCs can be investigated over the course of a couple hours/days (Law & Order: Elanthia!). Maybe we can skip the tragedies and become friends with the Beatrice, snark off for while about how utterly lame love is, and then see her through to marrying Benedick.
I would have lots of fun with all of these -- But they depart from the OP's desire to change the world. How do we change the world without open conflict? A little over a year ago, we had an election in WL to pick a new mayor, that changed the course of the related storyline. A while later, there was a referendum to try and impeach the mayor. I know the Argent Mirror is out and about hunting for a new beau. Maybe we could use some more political type tales, (The West Wing of Moot Hall? Okay, I'll stop with the TNT channel references).
Anyhow, just a bit of meandering on my part. What other stories can we bring into Elanthia? Keeping in mind, they have to be expansive enough to accomodate the whole variety of backstories we've crafted to some extent or another, and engaging enough to get off the ground.
.
Semi-related: Can we motion for Mentors and GH's to have the power to submit mini-stories for QC? Maybe if we had more folks able to do it, and folks without all the other GM responsibilities, we'd get a wider variety. Once it's through QC, maybe name a GM guru in charge of providing event support, similar to how the MHO/CHE GMs create objects and props for Houses and MHOs. Just a thought.
/seo/
I know that our world of semi-Tolkeinesque fantasy particularly lends itself to the Evil Overlord (tm) trope, but there are definitely are other stories out there that could be told. One potential snag I can see is intriguey/plotty stories tend to involve fewer people. Another is there are limitations to the drama you can build when there's no actual danger to player-characters. It's the rare character that displays any real fear of death. I'm sure we could play out an Elanthian Othello drama, that story is limited to a handful of people and pretty much everyone involved has to re-roll at the end.
When designing a storyline, I'm sure one of the goals is to involve as many people as you can, to spread the excitement around to anyone who wants to throw their hat into the ring. Sure, there are vast stories like the Game of Thrones, but I think from a story management perspective, juggling something on the scale of GoT, could be nightmarish for a few GMs. And even GoT is loaded up with wars and death.
So with these in mind, what stories can we tell? I know Kenstrom has done some mini-stories which were well recieved in WL, people helping the militia in apprehending some criminals and whatnot. Deaths of notable NPCs can be investigated over the course of a couple hours/days (Law & Order: Elanthia!). Maybe we can skip the tragedies and become friends with the Beatrice, snark off for while about how utterly lame love is, and then see her through to marrying Benedick.
I would have lots of fun with all of these -- But they depart from the OP's desire to change the world. How do we change the world without open conflict? A little over a year ago, we had an election in WL to pick a new mayor, that changed the course of the related storyline. A while later, there was a referendum to try and impeach the mayor. I know the Argent Mirror is out and about hunting for a new beau. Maybe we could use some more political type tales, (The West Wing of Moot Hall? Okay, I'll stop with the TNT channel references).
Anyhow, just a bit of meandering on my part. What other stories can we bring into Elanthia? Keeping in mind, they have to be expansive enough to accomodate the whole variety of backstories we've crafted to some extent or another, and engaging enough to get off the ground.
.
Semi-related: Can we motion for Mentors and GH's to have the power to submit mini-stories for QC? Maybe if we had more folks able to do it, and folks without all the other GM responsibilities, we'd get a wider variety. Once it's through QC, maybe name a GM guru in charge of providing event support, similar to how the MHO/CHE GMs create objects and props for Houses and MHOs. Just a thought.
/seo/
THORNBROOK
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 10:59 AM CDT
A few recent ones come to mind and they all had a different levels of fighting.
I believe those that play in the nations have an ongoing storyline with the Argent Mirror and her suitors. I think there was even some court intrigue when a courier in Landing was killed.
The Ronan Temple rise of the red dreamer while it involved quite a bit of killing also had a lot of story background delivered to players.
The monk release storyline had a lot of killing but how could it have not!
Kenstrom had something like two mini quests that happened out of the blue on a weekday night. Think it was like a 2 hour quest to help an npc. I wasn't around to attend but hearing the descriptions they were pretty neat.
These are simply the GM run storylines that come to mind.
For non combat related things the Mentors have done an amazing job this year with some very immersive events. The Erithian tea ceremony or Inurtia's tour of one of the demon realms for example. Granted these are single day or weekend long events which might not fit someones category of storyline.
Lochiven
TELSA
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 11:06 AM CDT
Ok, What the heck eh? I am going to chime in here. I thrive on RP, but seem to manage to just never get involved in the storylines cause of whatever reasons. Not from lack of trying mind you. I want to change the world, be a main part of whatever is going on, be heard and recognized! Leave a footprint behind. . . .
How is this possible? Well after several failed attempts, it becomes discouraging. (aka communes, and religious attempts.) But I have had some great ones too! Just hate not being part of what is going on, and know a lot of it is cause of my schedule or attitude or even my characters inability to not play the fence. ANYHOW, here is an idea I got. This can be tweaked into any situation, but kept to the basic idea.
Why can't a NPC be like a player and have a story line that would involve any that they come in contact with? Start as a newbie, work his life and build something. Pull all you can into it and find things that need to be done for the players that are not always on at the same time the GM running the story line is on. All working towards building a place. You can have an office to pick up your orders and personalize them as much as possible. The whole thing would rise and fall with war, heart breaks, love, friendships, enemies, the whole nine yards including some invasions but not limited to.
In case this isn't exactly clear I can provide an example:
Example: NPCSori the elf has heard tales about the Basilica and just starts talking about the tale of the Basilica over and over to anyone that will listen and wants to rebuild it in landing. He takes the information he has learned and tries to pull all the Faendryl together that he can along with anyone else that wants in on the action. Assigns them to task as he grows in skill and comes into problems that happen along the way. Raids, missing items, builders missing and have to figure out who is behind their disappearances. Racial issues,political issues, and weather issues. I mean building a big area is tough, and even tougher if the NPC isn't a Faendryl to start with. The NPCSori can hold fund raisers which could include auctions, and balls. Include communes to ensure he is on the right path, have an arkati favor him/her and one oppose him/her. Assassins can be chasing him. NPC Family comes to visit and needs to be shown around. Keep the NPCSori progressing in his/her skills. Find an excuse when it dies to always need to be raised by a new cleric, or healed by someone different, (I can help with reasons if you need) Eventually the area gets built, and then we can start the invasions in it and have it becomes a new capped hunting area! Um or something.
This also will become a slick way to do the other things GM's do, such as govern the game and hunt scripters by using the story line.
Ok I think I rattled on enough. Yes, this storyline would take a long time, and it is great to single everyone out if they want to one way or nother, which makes it A LOT of work. But isn't any good story line a lot of work? Organizations and pain? Good luck.
CIRCE2
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 12:53 PM CDT
One storyline I can think of that was really well done and did not involve invasions was the Eorgina storyline that was ran last year. I saw a few people get involved and it was a really good time. My main harassed the people of Icemule for days hunting for red gems and trying to get anyone involved that wanted to join in.
I agree, not all stories must have invasions, but they can sure be fun.
Player of Astari
Vaalorclean]-Aize: "stabbidy stabbidy good"
xxxxxx(00:42:17): "I have every Astari action figure... And all of the trading cards... (heavy breathing)..."
Ruabadra whispers, "So I heard something about you dying, chivalrous and a squirrel."
I agree, not all stories must have invasions, but they can sure be fun.
Player of Astari
Vaalorclean]-Aize: "stabbidy stabbidy good"
xxxxxx(00:42:17): "I have every Astari action figure... And all of the trading cards... (heavy breathing)..."
Ruabadra whispers, "So I heard something about you dying, chivalrous and a squirrel."
GS4-MARSTREFORN
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/03/2012 01:33 PM CDT
One of my favorite storylines to date that (I've conducted) was the miner/demon storyline at Ebon Gate. While there was some hack-n-slash at certain points, a lot of the interaction was pure RP.
I enjoyed watching the players interact with each other as the demon "possessed" someone. The orbs let you know who was possessed, so anyone with an orb could jump back into things whenever they logged in.
The "extra" messaging (ie: ants crawling all over you) and watching the players react to it was really the kicker for me.
In the end, you had to defeat the vathor, but there was never a massive battle against an army of creatures.
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
I enjoyed watching the players interact with each other as the demon "possessed" someone. The orbs let you know who was possessed, so anyone with an orb could jump back into things whenever they logged in.
The "extra" messaging (ie: ants crawling all over you) and watching the players react to it was really the kicker for me.
In the end, you had to defeat the vathor, but there was never a massive battle against an army of creatures.
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
GS4-WYROM
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/04/2012 07:09 PM CDT
As a GM who has run a number of smaller storylines, I can certainly say, the ones that don't have much action don't gain a whole lot of interest. It's a hard balance for a GM to create something interesting as well, since it requires players to pick up the ball and run with it. So we have to hope you like it and are willing to do that.
This of course leads to issues where the same groups of people keep seeming to be in the center spotlight. Because those are the people who do just that. It's not that we pick these people, it's what we draw in.
In an instance like Platinum, it's a little easier to give one-on-one attention, but even there, it gets hard when you're in one place, and someone runs off to a temple and begins praying for an Arkati to intervene. You have to sort of split up where you decide to go. Stick with the group you're working, or the one person who ran off that wants to evolve the storyline in the idea of their own.
It's pretty tough, is what I'm saying. I'd love to keep hearing ideas though.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
This of course leads to issues where the same groups of people keep seeming to be in the center spotlight. Because those are the people who do just that. It's not that we pick these people, it's what we draw in.
In an instance like Platinum, it's a little easier to give one-on-one attention, but even there, it gets hard when you're in one place, and someone runs off to a temple and begins praying for an Arkati to intervene. You have to sort of split up where you decide to go. Stick with the group you're working, or the one person who ran off that wants to evolve the storyline in the idea of their own.
It's pretty tough, is what I'm saying. I'd love to keep hearing ideas though.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
LUNATUNES
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/04/2012 10:00 PM CDT
>Wyrom's post
I understand those concerns of course, especially trying to be equitable when it comes to involvement. As a player who really enjoys the stories that have been told lately, and whose character has been involved to some extent on several occasions, I have often been asked "how can I get involved?" The best answer I have been able to come up with is "pay attention," but that doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer in many cases. In fact, it strikes me even as future mentors event: a discussion for those folks who might not know how to get started, or where to look, or even what to look for when it comes to getting involved in the budding stages of a new storyline.
A thread like this could be fruitful in finding out what kinds of stories people want to take part in. We've seen some great strides forward in designing the fighting-side in such a way as to accommodate different levels, and there are always more suggestions on that side of the fence before, during and after the fighting. I'm looking forward to other folks' suggestions on spicing up the RP angle.
/seo/
I understand those concerns of course, especially trying to be equitable when it comes to involvement. As a player who really enjoys the stories that have been told lately, and whose character has been involved to some extent on several occasions, I have often been asked "how can I get involved?" The best answer I have been able to come up with is "pay attention," but that doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer in many cases. In fact, it strikes me even as future mentors event: a discussion for those folks who might not know how to get started, or where to look, or even what to look for when it comes to getting involved in the budding stages of a new storyline.
A thread like this could be fruitful in finding out what kinds of stories people want to take part in. We've seen some great strides forward in designing the fighting-side in such a way as to accommodate different levels, and there are always more suggestions on that side of the fence before, during and after the fighting. I'm looking forward to other folks' suggestions on spicing up the RP angle.
/seo/
CIRCE2
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 05:52 AM CDT
I am just going to step in here and speak from my own perspective on this. I really enjoy being able to participate in stories that would fit my character, whether those be mostly invasion centered or RP driven. While telling a person to pay attention is a good start to getting involved, I have found at times it is much harder to stay involved. A situation I have run into on a few stories is that even when you try to stay up to date on what you miss, it is not easy. You basically need to have someone that is constantly involved to keep up. Once you get so far behind in the RP story, you can feel like their isn't much point for you to try and continue to pester as many people as you can for information that people often times do not want to give. This happened to me during the last part of the Stone story in Landing. Luckily for me my character could still participate in the invasions, but it was almost impossible for me to get IC information that was not something posted on the boards. Another instance of this was a story ran a few years ago in Icemule. I did everything I could to stay up on what was happening until the end of it and it took me months to find out how it actually ended because only about five or six people were allowed to see the ending and those five or six never really talked about it other than to say, "She is dead." That story left a very bad taste in my mouth and it was at least a year before I actively tried to participate in any other GS story lines.
I know that most everyone has their own little groups that we all feel comfortable playing in and that is to be understood, but if people are coming to you asking about what is going on and how they can get involved, try and bring them in. I try to do this as much as I can with characters that I see are showing an interest.
Player of Astari
Vaalorclean]-Aize: "stabbidy stabbidy good"
xxxxxx(00:42:17): "I have every Astari action figure... And all of the trading cards... (heavy breathing)..."
Ruabadra whispers, "So I heard something about you dying, chivalrous and a squirrel."
I know that most everyone has their own little groups that we all feel comfortable playing in and that is to be understood, but if people are coming to you asking about what is going on and how they can get involved, try and bring them in. I try to do this as much as I can with characters that I see are showing an interest.
Player of Astari
Vaalorclean]-Aize: "stabbidy stabbidy good"
xxxxxx(00:42:17): "I have every Astari action figure... And all of the trading cards... (heavy breathing)..."
Ruabadra whispers, "So I heard something about you dying, chivalrous and a squirrel."
LDYREK
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 09:12 AM CDT
Well you know my views on invasions so nuff said. I do like the 5-10 minute little gold nuggets of GM interaction that surprise and delights random players. Sometimes that small effort can have you talking about it for years and also help you flesh out your character.
Lady Rek
Lady Rek
TROUBLE13
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 09:53 AM CDT
>>Another instance of this was a story ran a few years ago in Icemule.
If this is the storyline I am thinking of, there really wasn't much to say, the ending was pretty anti-climatic and quite a few of us were a little disappointed.
>>This of course leads to issues where the same groups of people keep seeming to be in the center spotlight. Because those are the people who do just that. It's not that we pick these people, it's what we draw in.
Some of this is about timing and location too. Of course there are always going to be those who chase after storylines, but lately, I haven't seen a lot of the people who used to do that around any more. I, myself, try to avoid butting in on storylines and only get involved if it involves my character in someway.
I know for some people one of the big turn offs have been the waiting around for something to happen. It isn't that they are impatient either, some have waited around for over an hour before saying screw it and going off to do other things and they aren't the type to just drop what they are doing and rush over when things do finally start happening.
If this is the storyline I am thinking of, there really wasn't much to say, the ending was pretty anti-climatic and quite a few of us were a little disappointed.
>>This of course leads to issues where the same groups of people keep seeming to be in the center spotlight. Because those are the people who do just that. It's not that we pick these people, it's what we draw in.
Some of this is about timing and location too. Of course there are always going to be those who chase after storylines, but lately, I haven't seen a lot of the people who used to do that around any more. I, myself, try to avoid butting in on storylines and only get involved if it involves my character in someway.
I know for some people one of the big turn offs have been the waiting around for something to happen. It isn't that they are impatient either, some have waited around for over an hour before saying screw it and going off to do other things and they aren't the type to just drop what they are doing and rush over when things do finally start happening.
LUNATUNES
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 10:24 AM CDT
A story that fits our characters' backstory is of course a great scenario for anyone (I'm looking forward to the lichy-undeady tale coming to WL, for sure). You're right though, that being involved in a long storyline is a huge commitment in terms of time, and after missing some events it can be hard to get information and feel like you've fallen behind. The real world is there for everyone, and the amount of time we can dedicate to GS wildly varies. I can tell people to just pay attention and sound reasonable; I can't say "well be online from 5pm to midnight every day!" lol
Getting information from characters is always going to be a toss-up for lots of reasons. On that front, it's helpful to know a lot of people, but even there I can't advise "well be online from 5pm to midnight and talk to everyone!"
Personally, I did manage to bring quite a number of people into the summoners storyline by telling and re-telling the events-so-far. One thing I did notice in those tellings: lots of folks seemed to be hesitant to pick up the ball and run with it. Was the story too long and overwhelming? Were they unsure of how to integrate themselves into the tale? How can we overcome those obstacles?
Maybe shorter stories or even stories that progress at appointed times could be helpful? What kinds of stories can be scheduled out? Things that come to mind:
- a troupe of actors comes to town, things happen during their calendared performances
- Telsas' sketch-out of a person who turns up and tries to get the town to join him in some goal (fundraiser balls, hunting parties, etc)
- a trial over several days of some criminal (12 angry men style)
/seo/
Getting information from characters is always going to be a toss-up for lots of reasons. On that front, it's helpful to know a lot of people, but even there I can't advise "well be online from 5pm to midnight and talk to everyone!"
Personally, I did manage to bring quite a number of people into the summoners storyline by telling and re-telling the events-so-far. One thing I did notice in those tellings: lots of folks seemed to be hesitant to pick up the ball and run with it. Was the story too long and overwhelming? Were they unsure of how to integrate themselves into the tale? How can we overcome those obstacles?
Maybe shorter stories or even stories that progress at appointed times could be helpful? What kinds of stories can be scheduled out? Things that come to mind:
- a troupe of actors comes to town, things happen during their calendared performances
- Telsas' sketch-out of a person who turns up and tries to get the town to join him in some goal (fundraiser balls, hunting parties, etc)
- a trial over several days of some criminal (12 angry men style)
/seo/
WOLFES2
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 02:19 PM CDT
I'd love to see one to two night adventure styled quests run by any GM. Something along the lines of the movie 13 Assassins. I suspect this is what the Academy quest does...while being a touch more auto-pilot than I'd desire. Could cries of favoritism occur? Heck yeah. My opinion is grow a backbone and stand up to your player base, say yes we are showing favoritism to those paying attention and being involved with RP. Invite 13 assassins or warriors (another movie) and take them to a remote area of the game or an "instanced" area and play it out. You already have Mestanir built some, you've got the desert where the Wavedancer took people...actually now you've got many special locations built. Use them...design another story around them. Run this in the Premium Jungle on FWI/Mist Harbor. Find people who are paying attention, interested and who'll actively roleplay with your random NPC and then sink them into that 4-5 hour story. Throw waves of critters at them at intervals, have a plot and storyline, if someone dies they die and they become one of the heroes that die in the tale. We as customers can't always expect to be able to be involved in every event from start to finish, nor should we always expect an invite if we're sitting afk somewhere, etc. Disappointment happens. Trust me, I rolled a 7 last night. Give out RPAs and gear/treasure as you progress through the story. I suggest a mechanic akin to warcamps for creatures, when possible, in which various and random levels according to the mix of the group comes at them. In the end, player 1-8 might die with various amounts of rpa and or treasure while the last 2-5 players finish the quest, get a title and whatever else.
That's another thing, give player something for their hard work. Titles, jewels, spurs and such are very often much more important to people than a 5x sword of not-so-much doom...although, I'd not kick that out of bed. I wish we could play up some of the seedier things in Elanthia, too. It doesn't have to all be about war or combat (although I lean that direction). If someone catches your eye as a weaponsmith because they forge all the time, invite them to make a weapon for some NPC. Is that dull? Perhaps, but go into the forge with them, chat them up and get them to tell a story while they are stuck in artisan round time. Give them a simple title no other forger has when they are done, like...<insert noble house name> Assistant Forger or Bladesmith or Axe Forger for Imperial Forestry Service...whatever. So, I can't just whip titles up so hot. Back to seedier, RP as a lady of the night needing a bodyguard and have something get stolen from her...play up the dregs of society, too. Essentially, don't be afraid of doing something one on one, one on six or one on 250. Give someone an item that has to be couriered to the EN, explain to them the need for speed but find ways to keep them from scripting it...hell ask them afk once they get involved and interested simply not to (I mean, why not, once they are engaged) and then have bandits, creatures, other involved parties both RP and try to waylay them as they perform their courier duty, then pay them, reward them, give them a nifty courier badge...
At this point it's become a wall of text, for that I am sorry. Hopefully, these random ideas generate some thought and interest. One thing to take from it is don't be afraid to disappoint some people in order to make several or even one person's roleplaying life/year/day. Engaged people in non-standard quests, stray from the norm and take over the flower girl/priestess and entice some poor cleric or paladin for a kiss. Have the haggard matron follow a person instead of always being followed. Engaged a person in one on one combat as a creature or NPC...whatever you wish to engage anything from a small player base to a large one.
Having said ALL that, don't stop invading the Landing. THANKS!
~Galenok
That's another thing, give player something for their hard work. Titles, jewels, spurs and such are very often much more important to people than a 5x sword of not-so-much doom...although, I'd not kick that out of bed. I wish we could play up some of the seedier things in Elanthia, too. It doesn't have to all be about war or combat (although I lean that direction). If someone catches your eye as a weaponsmith because they forge all the time, invite them to make a weapon for some NPC. Is that dull? Perhaps, but go into the forge with them, chat them up and get them to tell a story while they are stuck in artisan round time. Give them a simple title no other forger has when they are done, like...<insert noble house name> Assistant Forger or Bladesmith or Axe Forger for Imperial Forestry Service...whatever. So, I can't just whip titles up so hot. Back to seedier, RP as a lady of the night needing a bodyguard and have something get stolen from her...play up the dregs of society, too. Essentially, don't be afraid of doing something one on one, one on six or one on 250. Give someone an item that has to be couriered to the EN, explain to them the need for speed but find ways to keep them from scripting it...hell ask them afk once they get involved and interested simply not to (I mean, why not, once they are engaged) and then have bandits, creatures, other involved parties both RP and try to waylay them as they perform their courier duty, then pay them, reward them, give them a nifty courier badge...
At this point it's become a wall of text, for that I am sorry. Hopefully, these random ideas generate some thought and interest. One thing to take from it is don't be afraid to disappoint some people in order to make several or even one person's roleplaying life/year/day. Engaged people in non-standard quests, stray from the norm and take over the flower girl/priestess and entice some poor cleric or paladin for a kiss. Have the haggard matron follow a person instead of always being followed. Engaged a person in one on one combat as a creature or NPC...whatever you wish to engage anything from a small player base to a large one.
Having said ALL that, don't stop invading the Landing. THANKS!
~Galenok
ISLEROGUE
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/05/2012 02:34 PM CDT
Linking several or many short storylines together could work very well. little events with posts on the boards of whats happened so far...
GS4-WYROM
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/06/2012 01:52 PM CDT
>>Some of this is about timing and location too. Of course there are always going to be those who chase after storylines, but lately, I haven't seen a lot of the people who used to do that around any more. I, myself, try to avoid butting in on storylines and only get involved if it involves my character in someway.
Definitely timing and location is a big factor. If you're not in the area and around when the GM can be around, you'll miss the action for sure. I can't be around 24/7 by any means.
Storyline chasers do exist still, but I agree, it's not as hardcore as it use to be.
>>I know for some people one of the big turn offs have been the waiting around for something to happen. It isn't that they are impatient either, some have waited around for over an hour before saying screw it and going off to do other things and they aren't the type to just drop what they are doing and rush over when things do finally start happening.
This is the part that becomes hard. A good storyline sparks roleplay among players. So if it's not doing that, and players are waiting around for the GM, then I think that's where it's failing. This is also where you do want as many active people as possible (both staff and player).
>>Getting information from characters is always going to be a toss-up for lots of reasons. On that front, it's helpful to know a lot of people, but even there I can't advise "well be online from 5pm to midnight and talk to everyone!"
This is probably the biggest wildcard and struggle for staff to overcome. There are really two ways we can handle it... Meta game and post the outcomes/summaries yourself, or hope players do it for you. I'm a forum reader, and I'll be honest, the summary writers on here are a dying breed of players. But not everyone read the forums, so you hope your audience is hit in a way everyone can understand the storyline. Personally, I don't like to do the hand holding way of story telling. I want people live and breathe the storyline. Not just read a summary.
>>I'd love to see one to two night adventure styled quests run by any GM. Something along the lines of the movie 13 Assassins. I suspect this is what the Academy quest does...while being a touch more auto-pilot than I'd desire.
In Platinum, I coined a term called Mini Epics, which were less than a week epics for a small crowd of players. It works there, because if you have only 6 or 7 people involved, not too many are excluded. I test-piloted a few and really wanted to do more (I did two on the IFW in Prime. Vahmyr's death was a little longer than my norm. And Khlat, Rawgur, and Teekhum dying was a one day event. With Skryn being born). But I got busy. I took over the Host Program and became ASGM of a team that isn't storyline or quest driven. I'm on that back end team that QCs and trains staff. But I definitely try to do a lot more outside the scope of my normal duties.
>>Could cries of favoritism occur? Heck yeah. My opinion is grow a backbone and stand up to your player base, say yes we are showing favoritism to those paying attention and being involved with RP.
As much as I agree, it just doesn't really work that way. There were some cries of favoritism for a few things I did in Platinum, and that's how I felt. Yes, I'm playing favorites to those that show up and enjoy themselves and get involved. I never sit here and go, "Hmm, I'm going to choose Galenok tonight to be my hero." I just enable anyone to stand up and be that hero. And if Galenok is the one to do it, then that's that! I roll with those punches. Sorry to throw the spotlight on you for my example, figured since it was your post I'm quoting, why not!
>>Invite 13 assassins or warriors (another movie) and take them to a remote area of the game or an "instanced" area and play it out. You already have Mestanir built some, you've got the desert where the Wavedancer took people...actually now you've got many special locations built. Use them...design another story around them. Run this in the Premium Jungle on FWI/Mist Harbor.
Oh man, people were so mad when I was on Monsoon Jungle. So mad! Apparently it wasn't mapped and Lich users couldn't use ;go2. SO MAD!!! Reusing old areas is pretty hit and miss. Sometimes it just comes down to approvals. Sometimes it's because the area is built poorly that it can't get reused. There really are a lot of reasons we don't get to do this.
>>Find people who are paying attention, interested and who'll actively roleplay with your random NPC and then sink them into that 4-5 hour story. Throw waves of critters at them at intervals, have a plot and storyline, if someone dies they die and they become one of the heroes that die in the tale. We as customers can't always expect to be able to be involved in every event from start to finish, nor should we always expect an invite if we're sitting afk somewhere, etc. Disappointment happens. Trust me, I rolled a 7 last night. Give out RPAs and gear/treasure as you progress through the story. I suggest a mechanic akin to warcamps for creatures, when possible, in which various and random levels according to the mix of the group comes at them. In the end, player 1-8 might die with various amounts of rpa and or treasure while the last 2-5 players finish the quest, get a title and whatever else.
It would be nice if the majority of people who showed up to these agreed, but you'll find you'll come up in the minority here. Again, using examples that I've done. I hate raffles. I will rarely use them. Auctions favor the rich, and while I believe people who want items will work hard for them, a lot of people don't agree with that. So I really wanted to give items out via a storyline. I want Excalibur to find King Arthur. But the problem is, we have 16 King Arthurs and 4 people who just want Excalibur. And that's when people get upset. I created I believe 15 items one night (all approved and QC'ed), basically I just counted up the number of people who were involved in the storyline. Well, word got out that I had item piles, and now I didn't have enough candy to give to the classroom. It got a little ugly. And on top of that, the area to get to wasn't exactly easy and known, so you had to have your finger on the pulse or hope players shared that info. And the problem was, it wasn't being shared outside people's circle of friends.
>>That's another thing, give player something for their hard work. Titles, jewels, spurs and such are very often much more important to people than a 5x sword of not-so-much doom...although, I'd not kick that out of bed. I wish we could play up some of the seedier things in Elanthia, too. It doesn't have to all be about war or combat (although I lean that direction). If someone catches your eye as a weaponsmith because they forge all the time, invite them to make a weapon for some NPC. Is that dull? Perhaps, but go into the forge with them, chat them up and get them to tell a story while they are stuck in artisan round time. Give them a simple title no other forger has when they are done, like...<insert noble house name> Assistant Forger or Bladesmith or Axe Forger for Imperial Forestry Service...whatever. So, I can't just whip titles up so hot. Back to seedier, RP as a lady of the night needing a bodyguard and have something get stolen from her...play up the dregs of society, too. Essentially, don't be afraid of doing something one on one, one on six or one on 250. Give someone an item that has to be couriered to the EN, explain to them the need for speed but find ways to keep them from scripting it...hell ask them afk once they get involved and interested simply not to (I mean, why not, once they are engaged) and then have bandits, creatures, other involved parties both RP and try to waylay them as they perform their courier duty, then pay them, reward them, give them a nifty courier badge...
A lot of the issue is, we can't just give you things on the fly. They have to be approved and QC'ed. Sure, I can have a few generic things made up. But to hit those personal touches, it would be a bit (days, weeks, months, etc).
>>At this point it's become a wall of text, for that I am sorry.
Don't be. I think you're being very constructive and it inspired me to want to respond because I want you guys to understand what it's like from the other side too.
>>Hopefully, these random ideas generate some thought and interest.
Absolutely, you did. Makes me want to just jump in and do something fun.
>>One thing to take from it is don't be afraid to disappoint some people in order to make several or even one person's roleplaying life/year/day. Engaged people in non-standard quests, stray from the norm and take over the flower girl/priestess and entice some poor cleric or paladin for a kiss. Have the haggard matron follow a person instead of always being followed. Engaged a person in one on one combat as a creature or NPC...whatever you wish to engage anything from a small player base to a large one.
It's a slippery slope for sure. But one I hope that can get conquered one day.
>>Having said ALL that, don't stop invading the Landing. THANKS!
Kenstrom has years worth of plans to keep you guys dead, I'm sure.
>>Linking several or many short storylines together could work very well. little events with posts on the boards of whats happened so far...
This is what we hope players take and run with. I like to post some summaries, but I really want players to share what they perceive as well.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
Definitely timing and location is a big factor. If you're not in the area and around when the GM can be around, you'll miss the action for sure. I can't be around 24/7 by any means.
Storyline chasers do exist still, but I agree, it's not as hardcore as it use to be.
>>I know for some people one of the big turn offs have been the waiting around for something to happen. It isn't that they are impatient either, some have waited around for over an hour before saying screw it and going off to do other things and they aren't the type to just drop what they are doing and rush over when things do finally start happening.
This is the part that becomes hard. A good storyline sparks roleplay among players. So if it's not doing that, and players are waiting around for the GM, then I think that's where it's failing. This is also where you do want as many active people as possible (both staff and player).
>>Getting information from characters is always going to be a toss-up for lots of reasons. On that front, it's helpful to know a lot of people, but even there I can't advise "well be online from 5pm to midnight and talk to everyone!"
This is probably the biggest wildcard and struggle for staff to overcome. There are really two ways we can handle it... Meta game and post the outcomes/summaries yourself, or hope players do it for you. I'm a forum reader, and I'll be honest, the summary writers on here are a dying breed of players. But not everyone read the forums, so you hope your audience is hit in a way everyone can understand the storyline. Personally, I don't like to do the hand holding way of story telling. I want people live and breathe the storyline. Not just read a summary.
>>I'd love to see one to two night adventure styled quests run by any GM. Something along the lines of the movie 13 Assassins. I suspect this is what the Academy quest does...while being a touch more auto-pilot than I'd desire.
In Platinum, I coined a term called Mini Epics, which were less than a week epics for a small crowd of players. It works there, because if you have only 6 or 7 people involved, not too many are excluded. I test-piloted a few and really wanted to do more (I did two on the IFW in Prime. Vahmyr's death was a little longer than my norm. And Khlat, Rawgur, and Teekhum dying was a one day event. With Skryn being born). But I got busy. I took over the Host Program and became ASGM of a team that isn't storyline or quest driven. I'm on that back end team that QCs and trains staff. But I definitely try to do a lot more outside the scope of my normal duties.
>>Could cries of favoritism occur? Heck yeah. My opinion is grow a backbone and stand up to your player base, say yes we are showing favoritism to those paying attention and being involved with RP.
As much as I agree, it just doesn't really work that way. There were some cries of favoritism for a few things I did in Platinum, and that's how I felt. Yes, I'm playing favorites to those that show up and enjoy themselves and get involved. I never sit here and go, "Hmm, I'm going to choose Galenok tonight to be my hero." I just enable anyone to stand up and be that hero. And if Galenok is the one to do it, then that's that! I roll with those punches. Sorry to throw the spotlight on you for my example, figured since it was your post I'm quoting, why not!
>>Invite 13 assassins or warriors (another movie) and take them to a remote area of the game or an "instanced" area and play it out. You already have Mestanir built some, you've got the desert where the Wavedancer took people...actually now you've got many special locations built. Use them...design another story around them. Run this in the Premium Jungle on FWI/Mist Harbor.
Oh man, people were so mad when I was on Monsoon Jungle. So mad! Apparently it wasn't mapped and Lich users couldn't use ;go2. SO MAD!!! Reusing old areas is pretty hit and miss. Sometimes it just comes down to approvals. Sometimes it's because the area is built poorly that it can't get reused. There really are a lot of reasons we don't get to do this.
>>Find people who are paying attention, interested and who'll actively roleplay with your random NPC and then sink them into that 4-5 hour story. Throw waves of critters at them at intervals, have a plot and storyline, if someone dies they die and they become one of the heroes that die in the tale. We as customers can't always expect to be able to be involved in every event from start to finish, nor should we always expect an invite if we're sitting afk somewhere, etc. Disappointment happens. Trust me, I rolled a 7 last night. Give out RPAs and gear/treasure as you progress through the story. I suggest a mechanic akin to warcamps for creatures, when possible, in which various and random levels according to the mix of the group comes at them. In the end, player 1-8 might die with various amounts of rpa and or treasure while the last 2-5 players finish the quest, get a title and whatever else.
It would be nice if the majority of people who showed up to these agreed, but you'll find you'll come up in the minority here. Again, using examples that I've done. I hate raffles. I will rarely use them. Auctions favor the rich, and while I believe people who want items will work hard for them, a lot of people don't agree with that. So I really wanted to give items out via a storyline. I want Excalibur to find King Arthur. But the problem is, we have 16 King Arthurs and 4 people who just want Excalibur. And that's when people get upset. I created I believe 15 items one night (all approved and QC'ed), basically I just counted up the number of people who were involved in the storyline. Well, word got out that I had item piles, and now I didn't have enough candy to give to the classroom. It got a little ugly. And on top of that, the area to get to wasn't exactly easy and known, so you had to have your finger on the pulse or hope players shared that info. And the problem was, it wasn't being shared outside people's circle of friends.
>>That's another thing, give player something for their hard work. Titles, jewels, spurs and such are very often much more important to people than a 5x sword of not-so-much doom...although, I'd not kick that out of bed. I wish we could play up some of the seedier things in Elanthia, too. It doesn't have to all be about war or combat (although I lean that direction). If someone catches your eye as a weaponsmith because they forge all the time, invite them to make a weapon for some NPC. Is that dull? Perhaps, but go into the forge with them, chat them up and get them to tell a story while they are stuck in artisan round time. Give them a simple title no other forger has when they are done, like...<insert noble house name> Assistant Forger or Bladesmith or Axe Forger for Imperial Forestry Service...whatever. So, I can't just whip titles up so hot. Back to seedier, RP as a lady of the night needing a bodyguard and have something get stolen from her...play up the dregs of society, too. Essentially, don't be afraid of doing something one on one, one on six or one on 250. Give someone an item that has to be couriered to the EN, explain to them the need for speed but find ways to keep them from scripting it...hell ask them afk once they get involved and interested simply not to (I mean, why not, once they are engaged) and then have bandits, creatures, other involved parties both RP and try to waylay them as they perform their courier duty, then pay them, reward them, give them a nifty courier badge...
A lot of the issue is, we can't just give you things on the fly. They have to be approved and QC'ed. Sure, I can have a few generic things made up. But to hit those personal touches, it would be a bit (days, weeks, months, etc).
>>At this point it's become a wall of text, for that I am sorry.
Don't be. I think you're being very constructive and it inspired me to want to respond because I want you guys to understand what it's like from the other side too.
>>Hopefully, these random ideas generate some thought and interest.
Absolutely, you did. Makes me want to just jump in and do something fun.
>>One thing to take from it is don't be afraid to disappoint some people in order to make several or even one person's roleplaying life/year/day. Engaged people in non-standard quests, stray from the norm and take over the flower girl/priestess and entice some poor cleric or paladin for a kiss. Have the haggard matron follow a person instead of always being followed. Engaged a person in one on one combat as a creature or NPC...whatever you wish to engage anything from a small player base to a large one.
It's a slippery slope for sure. But one I hope that can get conquered one day.
>>Having said ALL that, don't stop invading the Landing. THANKS!
Kenstrom has years worth of plans to keep you guys dead, I'm sure.
>>Linking several or many short storylines together could work very well. little events with posts on the boards of whats happened so far...
This is what we hope players take and run with. I like to post some summaries, but I really want players to share what they perceive as well.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
WOLFES2
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/06/2012 02:39 PM CDT
Here's one thing I think needs to be touched upon. EVERYTHING needs QCing. Man, that line gets so old. It's true, yes, but I think there needs to be more leeway. While I am not all for flooding the lands with basic 6x gear, it isn't all that impressive without something to back it up like combat scripts, rare flares or fusion. That said, it's a step up. I wish there was a point at which QC was unnecessary. Hand out a nice container. Make that jank hold more than anything should off the shelf (200lb cloak worn, 80lb belt worn, etc). That is nice but it's not excessive...you're not effecting encumbrance with it, you are simply making a character wear less articles, potentially. Giving someone a title shouldn't need QC. Write it down, submit that it was done so it can't be done again...etc. Sadly, we're a reward driven society. Even in a roleplaying immersive game players want a reward, constantly.
We need to get away from everything needing to be QC'd. Having an editor and grammar checker, perhaps, but constant supervision and oversight...so old. Also, please don't let what a player does with an item after receiving it keep your from distributing it. While disheartening to see something go immediately up for sale, just consider it the player's opportunity to flesh out their character how they see fit.
~Galenok
We need to get away from everything needing to be QC'd. Having an editor and grammar checker, perhaps, but constant supervision and oversight...so old. Also, please don't let what a player does with an item after receiving it keep your from distributing it. While disheartening to see something go immediately up for sale, just consider it the player's opportunity to flesh out their character how they see fit.
~Galenok
GS4-WYROM
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/06/2012 03:17 PM CDT
>>Sadly, we're a reward driven society. Even in a roleplaying immersive game players want a reward, constantly.
But the roleplay is the reward! /trollface
But, on some fronts, I agree. Some things probably seem like too much red tape to players. A lot of it's to keep a certain quality of services and offerings.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
But the roleplay is the reward! /trollface
But, on some fronts, I agree. Some things probably seem like too much red tape to players. A lot of it's to keep a certain quality of services and offerings.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/08/2012 11:37 PM CDT
Someone may have mentioned this (I only skimmed a lot of this thread), so cut me some slack if I'm repeating a previous statement. I also apologize for going slightly off-topic.
I think what lots of people are missing about this game is that players don't contextually think of their fellow players as a source for RP. That is, they treat other players as players and not as characters. Certainly, it may be said that most people won't openly speak/act on OOCly matters, but they still don't often add any flavors or ingredients to the bland broth that makes up the soup of their daily interactions with each other. Most of us even flat out ignore everyone who doesn't make up part of our usual clique. There are a couple of common reasons for this type of behavior: one, as someone mentioned, there lacks almost all sense of permanence between character-character interactions -- players intuitively feel that GMs are the only cause of permanence (that, and GMs can provide rewards, both mechanical and social). The second reason is purely social. No one RPs in public, thus it is seen as socially unacceptable (this is putting it very imprecisely -- there are all sorts of social pressures involved).
To relate this to the storyline topic -- I think getting over the aforementioned problems as a population will lead to an escape from the doldrums of inter-storyline periods (as well as during times when a storyline doesn't agree with you). Get over the lack of permanence (this is super difficult for me, personally) because it's not a debilitating as one might imagine. Overcome the social crap, too. Be the one to start something, as simple or small as you like. On top of these things, people will have to work on their own perceptions as well. Make your character more human. Start describing to others (through RP), how you're imagining your character's expressions and actions while whatever happens is happening. Start writing and others will follow suit.
On the GM side of thing, I've always wished that they'd interact more often with players on a lesser scale. Any interaction, no matter how small, is very likely going to make a player feel amazing about him/herself. I still remember when someone invaded the node in Vaunar with cockroaches (they weren't mobs, just text) and the fun I had with others in dealing with the infestation. This was like twelve years ago and I still remember it pretty vividly. I even remember who was there (I hunted with Unkk and Kalivar at the time). My point is that the experience was entertaining and lasting, and that it felt amazing to get even that tiny (maybe three minutes) bit of attention.
Anyway, I could say a hell of a lot more on the matter, but I'll just leave it at that for now.
~Brian, Sepher's player
I think what lots of people are missing about this game is that players don't contextually think of their fellow players as a source for RP. That is, they treat other players as players and not as characters. Certainly, it may be said that most people won't openly speak/act on OOCly matters, but they still don't often add any flavors or ingredients to the bland broth that makes up the soup of their daily interactions with each other. Most of us even flat out ignore everyone who doesn't make up part of our usual clique. There are a couple of common reasons for this type of behavior: one, as someone mentioned, there lacks almost all sense of permanence between character-character interactions -- players intuitively feel that GMs are the only cause of permanence (that, and GMs can provide rewards, both mechanical and social). The second reason is purely social. No one RPs in public, thus it is seen as socially unacceptable (this is putting it very imprecisely -- there are all sorts of social pressures involved).
To relate this to the storyline topic -- I think getting over the aforementioned problems as a population will lead to an escape from the doldrums of inter-storyline periods (as well as during times when a storyline doesn't agree with you). Get over the lack of permanence (this is super difficult for me, personally) because it's not a debilitating as one might imagine. Overcome the social crap, too. Be the one to start something, as simple or small as you like. On top of these things, people will have to work on their own perceptions as well. Make your character more human. Start describing to others (through RP), how you're imagining your character's expressions and actions while whatever happens is happening. Start writing and others will follow suit.
On the GM side of thing, I've always wished that they'd interact more often with players on a lesser scale. Any interaction, no matter how small, is very likely going to make a player feel amazing about him/herself. I still remember when someone invaded the node in Vaunar with cockroaches (they weren't mobs, just text) and the fun I had with others in dealing with the infestation. This was like twelve years ago and I still remember it pretty vividly. I even remember who was there (I hunted with Unkk and Kalivar at the time). My point is that the experience was entertaining and lasting, and that it felt amazing to get even that tiny (maybe three minutes) bit of attention.
Anyway, I could say a hell of a lot more on the matter, but I'll just leave it at that for now.
~Brian, Sepher's player
GS4-WYROM
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 06:52 AM CDT
>>Sepher's post
I have to say, you hit a lot of my observations when it comes to player-player/player-staff interactions. Now... There are a good handful of players that don't feel this way. But my experience does match. A lot of what I've tried to do with my storylines is make sure there is ammo for players to have something during downtime. I've noticed that this is also a thought process that isn't used much anymore. So it doesn't work as well as I'd hope. I'll use an example. I killed off a merchant, Dyhne, on the IFW. In the Monsoon Jungle. His orb, which was the source of how he offered those abilities to your items (Armor and Weapon Moods) was stolen. In Platinum, the orb was recovered, but destroyed. In Prime, no one searched for it, and I ended up leaving it there for a week. I didn't want to say, "Hey guys, look for something." I left it open for players as sort of a test if these things work. I did the same with a few other storylines in Platinum where it didn't work either. So I sort of know, this doesn't really work much. Same when it comes with just storyline movement. Feeding a small group of players information doesn't seem to move the storyline much anymore. That goes back to my stating of storytelling players being a dying breed.
Another thing I'd mention is GSS and WoN. Those massive storylines worked because players started to take sides and interact even outside GM interaction. Now, yes, there were cliques, but I think more people were involved overall. However, before anyone says it, I do understand the playerbase was a little more robust then.
As for the small interactions, they happen. They are more apparent in Platinum. I use to go hunting with Khlat. We actually took down an entire warcamp all together. And then I caused 250 Grimswarm to come out from a neighboring warcamp and after the players who were involved. I nearly crashed the game with so many creatures in the same area, hah!
I'm not trying to spark any Prime vs Platinum debate here. I understand we'll always have fanatics on both sides. But the smaller things will always work better with a smaller group of people. In Prime, I believe a lot of it just gets lost in the noise. Occasionally we'll get a kudos here and there on the forums, but there is a surprising lack of positive feedback here on the forums to know whether what we're doing is something desired.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
I have to say, you hit a lot of my observations when it comes to player-player/player-staff interactions. Now... There are a good handful of players that don't feel this way. But my experience does match. A lot of what I've tried to do with my storylines is make sure there is ammo for players to have something during downtime. I've noticed that this is also a thought process that isn't used much anymore. So it doesn't work as well as I'd hope. I'll use an example. I killed off a merchant, Dyhne, on the IFW. In the Monsoon Jungle. His orb, which was the source of how he offered those abilities to your items (Armor and Weapon Moods) was stolen. In Platinum, the orb was recovered, but destroyed. In Prime, no one searched for it, and I ended up leaving it there for a week. I didn't want to say, "Hey guys, look for something." I left it open for players as sort of a test if these things work. I did the same with a few other storylines in Platinum where it didn't work either. So I sort of know, this doesn't really work much. Same when it comes with just storyline movement. Feeding a small group of players information doesn't seem to move the storyline much anymore. That goes back to my stating of storytelling players being a dying breed.
Another thing I'd mention is GSS and WoN. Those massive storylines worked because players started to take sides and interact even outside GM interaction. Now, yes, there were cliques, but I think more people were involved overall. However, before anyone says it, I do understand the playerbase was a little more robust then.
As for the small interactions, they happen. They are more apparent in Platinum. I use to go hunting with Khlat. We actually took down an entire warcamp all together. And then I caused 250 Grimswarm to come out from a neighboring warcamp and after the players who were involved. I nearly crashed the game with so many creatures in the same area, hah!
I'm not trying to spark any Prime vs Platinum debate here. I understand we'll always have fanatics on both sides. But the smaller things will always work better with a smaller group of people. In Prime, I believe a lot of it just gets lost in the noise. Occasionally we'll get a kudos here and there on the forums, but there is a surprising lack of positive feedback here on the forums to know whether what we're doing is something desired.
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 09:28 AM CDT
>In Prime, no one searched for it, and I ended up leaving it there for a week. I didn't want to say, "Hey guys, look for something." I left it open for players as sort of a test if these things work. I did the same with a few other storylines in Platinum where it didn't work either. So I sort of know, this doesn't really work much. Same when it comes with just storyline movement. Feeding a small group of players information doesn't seem to move the storyline much anymore. That goes back to my stating of storytelling players being a dying breed. -Wyrom
That's an interesting tidbit of information. I didn't know that problem existed to that extent, and it's a really depressing thought. The only thing I can offer is my appreciation and the hope that you guys keep at it.
I have a little heartwarming story, and it's a little telling. I didn't want to say anything at first in case the person involved came to know about this and was embarrassed, but there's truly nothing to be embarrassed about so I'll tell it anyway.
I get an excited IM the other day from a friend who had gotten her first RPA ever. She was ecstatic. She said something about being a terrible RPer, so I reassured her that she was indeed capable. Then she responds with "apparently I can" as if she'd never had the opportunity to do it before. I was pretty floored by this, but didn't say anything. After that she recounted the story with glee and with a glint of romanticism for having figured out what "roleplaying" was. Now, I'm sure she knows that she can RP with others, but for whatever reason it doesn't really occur to her to do so. Maybe it's just because no one's engaged her in that way before (myself pitifully included, but I'll spare you my bad excuse).
Here's another story/example. It's sorta my thing with my wizard to send out his familiar and do most of his public interaction through it (he's reclusive and doesn't care what his familiar does when he doesn't need it). I always use the same familiar (so that it will be perceived as the same "person") and give it it's own personality independent of the mage. Sometimes I have it compete with other familiars/companions -- it talks and gestures to them. Sometimes I'll have it pick on PCs or try and make friends/enemies of them. Other times I'll just play with the environment. The fun part about it is that at least one person (usually multiple), very nearly every time, will engage the familiar, and very differently than they would another PC. They instinctively RP with it and everyone gets a little more colorful and elaborate with what they're doing. Part of me thinks that this works just because a familiar is non-threatening, but still people aren't as disdainful of it as they are with other PCs.
My favorite event in recent memory with the familiar was when, in order to prevent from being harassed and eaten, the familiar ran in circles around another familiar of the same type in an idiotic attempt to obfuscate which was which. Of course the other animal was entirely stationary the whole time and mine kept running his mouth, so the attempt was utterly pointless. It still cracks me up whenever I think about it.
I'm rambling again. I guess the problem is pretty dynamic and it's difficult to say whether it's because of one thing or another. It's more than likely a little bit of everything. Maybe people aren't engaged. Maybe they think they don't know how to roleplay or that it just doesn't occur to them to do so. Hell, maybe they don't even want to roleplay. I say keep trying to find ways to engage them. I, for one, welcome our ... er, appreciate it.
~Brian, Sepher's player
That's an interesting tidbit of information. I didn't know that problem existed to that extent, and it's a really depressing thought. The only thing I can offer is my appreciation and the hope that you guys keep at it.
I have a little heartwarming story, and it's a little telling. I didn't want to say anything at first in case the person involved came to know about this and was embarrassed, but there's truly nothing to be embarrassed about so I'll tell it anyway.
I get an excited IM the other day from a friend who had gotten her first RPA ever. She was ecstatic. She said something about being a terrible RPer, so I reassured her that she was indeed capable. Then she responds with "apparently I can" as if she'd never had the opportunity to do it before. I was pretty floored by this, but didn't say anything. After that she recounted the story with glee and with a glint of romanticism for having figured out what "roleplaying" was. Now, I'm sure she knows that she can RP with others, but for whatever reason it doesn't really occur to her to do so. Maybe it's just because no one's engaged her in that way before (myself pitifully included, but I'll spare you my bad excuse).
Here's another story/example. It's sorta my thing with my wizard to send out his familiar and do most of his public interaction through it (he's reclusive and doesn't care what his familiar does when he doesn't need it). I always use the same familiar (so that it will be perceived as the same "person") and give it it's own personality independent of the mage. Sometimes I have it compete with other familiars/companions -- it talks and gestures to them. Sometimes I'll have it pick on PCs or try and make friends/enemies of them. Other times I'll just play with the environment. The fun part about it is that at least one person (usually multiple), very nearly every time, will engage the familiar, and very differently than they would another PC. They instinctively RP with it and everyone gets a little more colorful and elaborate with what they're doing. Part of me thinks that this works just because a familiar is non-threatening, but still people aren't as disdainful of it as they are with other PCs.
My favorite event in recent memory with the familiar was when, in order to prevent from being harassed and eaten, the familiar ran in circles around another familiar of the same type in an idiotic attempt to obfuscate which was which. Of course the other animal was entirely stationary the whole time and mine kept running his mouth, so the attempt was utterly pointless. It still cracks me up whenever I think about it.
I'm rambling again. I guess the problem is pretty dynamic and it's difficult to say whether it's because of one thing or another. It's more than likely a little bit of everything. Maybe people aren't engaged. Maybe they think they don't know how to roleplay or that it just doesn't occur to them to do so. Hell, maybe they don't even want to roleplay. I say keep trying to find ways to engage them. I, for one, welcome our ... er, appreciate it.
~Brian, Sepher's player
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 09:50 AM CDT
Oh, and I know you guy can't answer this (blink twice for yes, once for no), but do you ever just take over a common mob and place bets on how many people ignore/kill it before someone notices it's not the usual critter?
I just think that would be potentially hilarious. You could play tricks on one another in attempts to increase/stay the current count, etc. It might even be a good way for some of you to have a little fun with each other and the players at the same time. "Oh, you think they'll notice your stupid kobold? Well, see if they notice in a room with 250 more! *game crash*"
~Brian, Sepher's player, likes this idea.
I just think that would be potentially hilarious. You could play tricks on one another in attempts to increase/stay the current count, etc. It might even be a good way for some of you to have a little fun with each other and the players at the same time. "Oh, you think they'll notice your stupid kobold? Well, see if they notice in a room with 250 more! *game crash*"
~Brian, Sepher's player, likes this idea.
LUNATUNES
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 10:04 AM CDT
>>Occasionally we'll get a kudos here and there on the forums, but there is a surprising lack of positive feedback here on the forums to know whether what we're doing is something desired.
I'm hopeful that the radio silence is starting to ebb a bit these days - I saw a number of positive posts just yesterday about Mazreth's work in Ta'Vaalor. Kenstrom's storylines seem to get people excited and there were a bunch of posts looking forward to his new one in December (although admittedly, this thread was started as a result of dissenting voices..) and I think there was a lot of good feedback at the close of some of his other storylines. I think it's brought a lot of life to WL and I love it.
Way back the OP mentioned that there had been a lot of radio silence on the storyline side, with years passing between world events. Now that the world is starting to heat up again, we Prime players probably just need some time to adjust.
>>But the smaller things will always work better with a smaller group of people. In Prime, I believe a lot of it just gets lost in the noise.
I agree with Galenok's post here - The small groups in Prime are listening and ready to play. Lend a hand to people who don't know how to get started, maybe with a few "Storylines OOC" meetings (bi-annually, even!). People who want to get involved will, people who want to learn how will.
We've all I'm sure chatted with each other over trivialities as well (hunting, training, things the game presents you with). It is a little harder to get character-driven conversations started, but it's not impossible. But we have to keep in mind that people play the game with different reasons and goals in mind, so we can't realistically expect every single person in Prime to have a fully fleshed out backstory as soon as we meet them, or even the interest in stopping to talk. So play with the ones who want to play, keep the door open to anyone else, and don't stifle creative impulses to avoid "favoritism."
/seo/
I'm hopeful that the radio silence is starting to ebb a bit these days - I saw a number of positive posts just yesterday about Mazreth's work in Ta'Vaalor. Kenstrom's storylines seem to get people excited and there were a bunch of posts looking forward to his new one in December (although admittedly, this thread was started as a result of dissenting voices..) and I think there was a lot of good feedback at the close of some of his other storylines. I think it's brought a lot of life to WL and I love it.
Way back the OP mentioned that there had been a lot of radio silence on the storyline side, with years passing between world events. Now that the world is starting to heat up again, we Prime players probably just need some time to adjust.
>>But the smaller things will always work better with a smaller group of people. In Prime, I believe a lot of it just gets lost in the noise.
I agree with Galenok's post here - The small groups in Prime are listening and ready to play. Lend a hand to people who don't know how to get started, maybe with a few "Storylines OOC" meetings (bi-annually, even!). People who want to get involved will, people who want to learn how will.
We've all I'm sure chatted with each other over trivialities as well (hunting, training, things the game presents you with). It is a little harder to get character-driven conversations started, but it's not impossible. But we have to keep in mind that people play the game with different reasons and goals in mind, so we can't realistically expect every single person in Prime to have a fully fleshed out backstory as soon as we meet them, or even the interest in stopping to talk. So play with the ones who want to play, keep the door open to anyone else, and don't stifle creative impulses to avoid "favoritism."
/seo/
GS4-WYROM
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 10:46 AM CDT
>>Oh, and I know you guy can't answer this (blink twice for yes, once for no), but do you ever just take over a common mob and place bets on how many people ignore/kill it before someone notices it's not the usual critter?
You have no idea!
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
You have no idea!
~Wyrom, ASGM
Host Manager
GameMaster Trainer
Honorary QC Lackey
LTLPRPRINCESS
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 01:08 PM CDT
I personally love player to player interactions and kind of actively seek them, whether it's obnoxiously challenging a capped bard to a challenge because I don't want to try to compete in singing, or having a neurotic breakdown because my girl overthinks things to the point of obsession. Recently, during the storyline in TV, she had her own little side story going on with a handful of people and it was some of the most fun I've had in a while. Things like this enrich the characters we play and strengthens their rp, imo... and sometimes, just sometimes, I prefer it to even being involved with GM things... because let's face it. When it's GM driven... people are always trying to outshine one another.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
KRAKII
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 01:09 PM CDT
"Oh, and I know you guy can't answer this (blink twice for yes, once for no), but do you ever just take over a common mob and place bets on how many people ignore/kill it before someone notices it's not the usual critter?" -- Sepher
by MOURNE
re Fishmonger at Large
on 3/19/2004
at 9:13:06 AM
## 85
I never knew the fishcake vendor in Solhaven was such a crude fellow...
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yer ain't luvverly! Yer stink!"
You belt out, "Hawk them somewhere else, fish-for-brains!"
.
Later...
Divid crouches, sweeps a leg at you and connects!
MS: +181 - MD: +96 + MAvA: +6 + d100: +88 == +179
Success!
You fall to the ground! Divid deftly regains his footing.
You blink.
You scowl.
You say, "...hardly sporting."
You stand back up.
You dust yourself off.
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "'Ey! Whut're you doin? That's a MAN! Augh!"
Divid blinks.
You belt out, "I thought I told you to find a better place for your fish-hawking, meatcreature!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Shaddup, horseface!"
You ask, "Horseface?"
You blink.
You say, "How rude."
You belt out, "Grease-weasel!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Stink-wrangler!"
You belt out, "Chum-drinker!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Mayonnaise-sucker!"
You belt out, "Your grandmother was a halfling's foot-hair comber!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yer grandma IS A HALFLING!"
You belt out, "Better a halfling than a half-krol! Your monkey ears are showing!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yeh, well at least my face don't look like the wrinkled back end of a dead mutt that's been lyin in the sun fer 10 days!"
You belt out, "You're right, that's not your face at all. I pity your wife!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Whut wife, ya wrinkly white maggot?!"
You belt out, "The lice-infested doxy I saw scuttling away wasn't your wife? Oh, dear. Are you feeling any burning sensations...?"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Only when I look at yer face! And I was tellin 'er that she shouldn't take yer money, she kept sayin you been buggerin up her dress all night!"
You belt out, "That'd be quite a feat, given the equipment involved!"
...fortunately, the hurled insults ended here, before they got completely out of hand.
- Jen et Avidleigh et al.
by MOURNE
re Fishmonger at Large
on 3/19/2004
at 9:13:06 AM
## 85
I never knew the fishcake vendor in Solhaven was such a crude fellow...
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yer ain't luvverly! Yer stink!"
You belt out, "Hawk them somewhere else, fish-for-brains!"
.
Later...
Divid crouches, sweeps a leg at you and connects!
MS: +181 - MD: +96 + MAvA: +6 + d100: +88 == +179
Success!
You fall to the ground! Divid deftly regains his footing.
You blink.
You scowl.
You say, "...hardly sporting."
You stand back up.
You dust yourself off.
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "'Ey! Whut're you doin? That's a MAN! Augh!"
Divid blinks.
You belt out, "I thought I told you to find a better place for your fish-hawking, meatcreature!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Shaddup, horseface!"
You ask, "Horseface?"
You blink.
You say, "How rude."
You belt out, "Grease-weasel!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Stink-wrangler!"
You belt out, "Chum-drinker!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Mayonnaise-sucker!"
You belt out, "Your grandmother was a halfling's foot-hair comber!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yer grandma IS A HALFLING!"
You belt out, "Better a halfling than a half-krol! Your monkey ears are showing!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Yeh, well at least my face don't look like the wrinkled back end of a dead mutt that's been lyin in the sun fer 10 days!"
You belt out, "You're right, that's not your face at all. I pity your wife!"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Whut wife, ya wrinkly white maggot?!"
You belt out, "The lice-infested doxy I saw scuttling away wasn't your wife? Oh, dear. Are you feeling any burning sensations...?"
You hear the voice of a lanky black-haired vendor yell, "Only when I look at yer face! And I was tellin 'er that she shouldn't take yer money, she kept sayin you been buggerin up her dress all night!"
You belt out, "That'd be quite a feat, given the equipment involved!"
...fortunately, the hurled insults ended here, before they got completely out of hand.
- Jen et Avidleigh et al.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 11:18 PM CDT
>Krakii's log
Brilliant.
>or having a neurotic breakdown because my girl overthinks things to the point of obsession. -LtlPrincess
Hey. You sound like my kind of girl! Can I interest you in some emotional investments? ;)
~Brian, Sepher's player
Brilliant.
>or having a neurotic breakdown because my girl overthinks things to the point of obsession. -LtlPrincess
Hey. You sound like my kind of girl! Can I interest you in some emotional investments? ;)
~Brian, Sepher's player
LTLPRPRINCESS
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/09/2012 11:45 PM CDT
>>Hey. You sound like my kind of girl! Can I interest you in some emotional investments? ;
Read my post, put two and two together, then facepalm.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
Read my post, put two and two together, then facepalm.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/10/2012 12:46 AM CDT
>Read my post, put two and two together, then facepalm.
I know who ya are. That was just supposed to be a subtle nod to you.
~B/S
I know who ya are. That was just supposed to be a subtle nod to you.
~B/S
LTLPRPRINCESS
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/10/2012 12:50 AM CDT
>>I know who ya are. That was just supposed to be a subtle nod to you.
Even though I'm female, like most males, subtlety is lost on me.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
Even though I'm female, like most males, subtlety is lost on me.
>>We are the ones who will never be broken. With our final breath, we'll fight to the death. We are soldiers.
KRAKII
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/10/2012 09:52 AM CDT
"like most males, subtlety is lost on me." -- LtlPrincess
What're you sayin' here; what's your point?
.
.
<grin>
What're you sayin' here; what's your point?
.
.
<grin>
RUABADRA
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/10/2012 02:18 PM CDT
<Occasionally we'll get a kudos here and there on the forums, but there is a surprising lack of positive feedback here on the forums to know whether what we're doing is something desired.>
Let me toss some kudos in then. I love what is going on in Mule right now. I love that after spending most of the night debating what was going on with Hidulah with a few other characters and searching for her secret passageways that we found some of her minions. Thank you for being so responsive. I'd actually decided to take a break from GS and had cancelled my account, but this storyline started up between the time I did that and when my renewal was up. I made it a day, so y'all are doing something right :)
~The Bouncing Gnome
Ruabadra gets a running start and launches herself at you like a cute little battering ram. You don't think it's so cute when she hits, dropping you like a rock!
Let me toss some kudos in then. I love what is going on in Mule right now. I love that after spending most of the night debating what was going on with Hidulah with a few other characters and searching for her secret passageways that we found some of her minions. Thank you for being so responsive. I'd actually decided to take a break from GS and had cancelled my account, but this storyline started up between the time I did that and when my renewal was up. I made it a day, so y'all are doing something right :)
~The Bouncing Gnome
Ruabadra gets a running start and launches herself at you like a cute little battering ram. You don't think it's so cute when she hits, dropping you like a rock!
GS4-MARSTREFORN
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/10/2012 02:30 PM CDT
We've only touched on the tip of this iceberg... err... glacier.
:P
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
:P
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
RGTRAYNOR
Re: Storylines and YOU!
10/13/2012 04:48 AM CDT
<<Another thing I'd mention is GSS and WoN. Those massive storylines worked because players started to take sides and interact even outside GM interaction. Now, yes, there were cliques, but I think more people were involved overall.>>
Truth be told, I'd be happy never to see a storyline such as GSS again. For every player still around who carols "Yeah! That was great!" there are ten you never see any more. The burnout rate, in a multi-threaded plotline extending over four years, was huge, and even within that timeframe, there weren't many of those from the first year of the DA-Resistance plot still around by the end. Solhaven was the center of Gemstone's RP then, but by the end of years' worth of PvP, betrayals and sidechanging, you could hear the crickets. The city's never recovered, and except for a handful of gallant diehards, if you want a town with lively RP at almost all hours, Solhaven's not it.
Beyond that, it was plain that the storyline ran on the GMs' timetable. Characters couldn't make material advancements in the plot until the GMs were good and ready for them to do so.
Give me small scenarios. The krolvin invasion of the Landing this past summer, the current flap in Icemule ... good examples. Ones engaging dozens of players, not hundreds. Ones lasting a month or two, not ones turning cities into war zones for years and setting comrades up to betray one another, again and again. Ones without uber-convoluted plots, so that players on normal schedules can make material impacts. Ones with a wide spread of NPC levels, so lower level characters can do their bit without being speedbumps.
~ r.
Truth be told, I'd be happy never to see a storyline such as GSS again. For every player still around who carols "Yeah! That was great!" there are ten you never see any more. The burnout rate, in a multi-threaded plotline extending over four years, was huge, and even within that timeframe, there weren't many of those from the first year of the DA-Resistance plot still around by the end. Solhaven was the center of Gemstone's RP then, but by the end of years' worth of PvP, betrayals and sidechanging, you could hear the crickets. The city's never recovered, and except for a handful of gallant diehards, if you want a town with lively RP at almost all hours, Solhaven's not it.
Beyond that, it was plain that the storyline ran on the GMs' timetable. Characters couldn't make material advancements in the plot until the GMs were good and ready for them to do so.
Give me small scenarios. The krolvin invasion of the Landing this past summer, the current flap in Icemule ... good examples. Ones engaging dozens of players, not hundreds. Ones lasting a month or two, not ones turning cities into war zones for years and setting comrades up to betray one another, again and again. Ones without uber-convoluted plots, so that players on normal schedules can make material impacts. Ones with a wide spread of NPC levels, so lower level characters can do their bit without being speedbumps.
~ r.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/10/2012 01:31 AM CST
Great post series.
I'm sure I'll have some comments, but I've been fortunate enough to see the genesis of some ideas, storylines, etc, but I was really just wowed by "Lets form an Orphanage" What a simple idea! Why has it never been brought up? It probably/might never materialize, but it's just a wonderful idea.
I think Cobbling, Forging, Bakery, etc had the intent to sort of create a player driven crafter experience, but they are overshadowed by Enchanting and enhancives. People certainly want a Perfect Maul or something, but those tend to be once in a lifetime and then it's enchanted and flared, etc.
People are always a mix of everything. I love stories. I'm also playing a game so I'll maximize my chances to win as able, but I'm also patient and mostly calm at the same time. I've played brooding characters, usually in other games, and I like evil (I finally have an alt who is mean), but I tend to play the sarcastic, analytical type with honor and integrity because it doesn't stray far from the wheelhouse. Plus it happens to be the character I've played the longest. Here and in life. Ha!
If anything, for a story, I think it needs to be either self-contained in an evening, weekend, or month like the Monk release was, a one-off event that wraps up, or consistent. The biggest complaint people have (Red Dreamer?) is stutter-step, start stop questing. It's why I think Kenstrom has set the standard for storytelling in that he harkens back to the big storytelling of the past (Vvrael, Griffin Sword Sagas) by plotting everything out, moving the story along, and being consistent with it. The story keeps moving versus start, stop, start, stop, vanish, start, vanish, stop, end abruptly.
-J
I'm sure I'll have some comments, but I've been fortunate enough to see the genesis of some ideas, storylines, etc, but I was really just wowed by "Lets form an Orphanage" What a simple idea! Why has it never been brought up? It probably/might never materialize, but it's just a wonderful idea.
I think Cobbling, Forging, Bakery, etc had the intent to sort of create a player driven crafter experience, but they are overshadowed by Enchanting and enhancives. People certainly want a Perfect Maul or something, but those tend to be once in a lifetime and then it's enchanted and flared, etc.
People are always a mix of everything. I love stories. I'm also playing a game so I'll maximize my chances to win as able, but I'm also patient and mostly calm at the same time. I've played brooding characters, usually in other games, and I like evil (I finally have an alt who is mean), but I tend to play the sarcastic, analytical type with honor and integrity because it doesn't stray far from the wheelhouse. Plus it happens to be the character I've played the longest. Here and in life. Ha!
If anything, for a story, I think it needs to be either self-contained in an evening, weekend, or month like the Monk release was, a one-off event that wraps up, or consistent. The biggest complaint people have (Red Dreamer?) is stutter-step, start stop questing. It's why I think Kenstrom has set the standard for storytelling in that he harkens back to the big storytelling of the past (Vvrael, Griffin Sword Sagas) by plotting everything out, moving the story along, and being consistent with it. The story keeps moving versus start, stop, start, stop, vanish, start, vanish, stop, end abruptly.
-J
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/10/2012 01:32 AM CST
<<Well you know my views on invasions so nuff said. I do like the 5-10 minute little gold nuggets of GM interaction that surprise and delights random players. Sometimes that small effort can have you talking about it for years and also help you flesh out your character.
This.
Most of them tend to be comical with a GM just having a laugh, but it's usually a shared one.
This.
Most of them tend to be comical with a GM just having a laugh, but it's usually a shared one.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/10/2012 02:14 AM CST
Wyrom sparks an interesting comment. GMs don't always take credit for things either. It's been good the last two years, but GMs don't always reminisce about storylines. It is also true that not all GMs end their roles on good terms. It would be cool to see people talk about XYZ storylines similar to what Wyrom presented about nobody looking for the enchanting bauble.
I think we'd have to start questions though. My memory is hazy in the middle of the night, but I remember Auchand saying he only brought out Baron Malwind once because he was played by a different GM. (It wasn't Mikos so I'm blanking) I remember Banthis used to post internal news about GM logs behind the scenes.
I assume that items, events, and storylines are captured on the backend in private. I wonder if we could release certain information to the public at some point.
*Which GM played Morvule and the Priests?
*Bregandians, were they really a rogue GM(s) running wild and it had to be disavowed
*Deleted (Varevice gossip!)
-J
I think we'd have to start questions though. My memory is hazy in the middle of the night, but I remember Auchand saying he only brought out Baron Malwind once because he was played by a different GM. (It wasn't Mikos so I'm blanking) I remember Banthis used to post internal news about GM logs behind the scenes.
I assume that items, events, and storylines are captured on the backend in private. I wonder if we could release certain information to the public at some point.
*Which GM played Morvule and the Priests?
*Bregandians, were they really a rogue GM(s) running wild and it had to be disavowed
*Deleted (Varevice gossip!)
-J
KRAKII
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/10/2012 09:48 AM CST
Most of the Bregandians who were running around the towns--that is, actually duking it out with characters--were Hosts, recruited to the task by the GMs who needed some extra bodies to fill things out.
ZENDADA
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/10/2012 10:11 AM CST
Just a heads up if anyone reading was somehow not aware of this...
The last premium contest of the year is to create a storyline. Entries close this Sunday the 16th.
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Four%20Winds%20Hall%60Premium/Contests/view/473
Also look at "prem 5" and "prem 6" in game.
This is a great opportunity. Don't miss it!
Chad, player of a few
The last premium contest of the year is to create a storyline. Entries close this Sunday the 16th.
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Four%20Winds%20Hall%60Premium/Contests/view/473
Also look at "prem 5" and "prem 6" in game.
This is a great opportunity. Don't miss it!
Chad, player of a few
GS4-SCRIBES
Re: Storylines and YOU!
12/11/2012 04:07 PM CST
<<I assume that items, events, and storylines are captured on the backend in private. I wonder if we could release certain information to the public at some point.
The only reason I became a GM was to get access to the backend stuff.
...
Okay, only a part of the reason!
From my experience, GMs today are a lot more likely to make notes/plans/summaries (which are accessible to other GMs) of what happened in storylines than GMs a decade ago. Around the time I got hired and later became Rest guru, I went head over heels thinking I was going to find all this super awesome stuff on what Bradach and Jineer had worked on and planned to work on.
... I hardly found anything. Talk about crestfallen and let down. The darn GMs must have kept everything on their hard drives. Meh!
So in short, some information that exists is that which is passed on between GMs, as one class comes in and another slowly departs. That which isn't recorded in our backend source and isn't passed on, regretfully vanishes into the ether. Thankfully, we have a few folks who refuse to leave or get the hint to do so, so there's a nice enough living memory archive of events/NPCs/and other odds and ends.
Whomever follows in my footsteps should get a good grasp of what went down in my time as guru, though regrettably, there's probably more wishes unfulfilled than realized in my notes.
So in short, some of the juicy stuff is memorialized and other stuffs aren't.
Feel free to ask me anything about my storylines, I like to feel relevant every now and then. :D
GM Scribes
The only reason I became a GM was to get access to the backend stuff.
...
Okay, only a part of the reason!
From my experience, GMs today are a lot more likely to make notes/plans/summaries (which are accessible to other GMs) of what happened in storylines than GMs a decade ago. Around the time I got hired and later became Rest guru, I went head over heels thinking I was going to find all this super awesome stuff on what Bradach and Jineer had worked on and planned to work on.
... I hardly found anything. Talk about crestfallen and let down. The darn GMs must have kept everything on their hard drives. Meh!
So in short, some information that exists is that which is passed on between GMs, as one class comes in and another slowly departs. That which isn't recorded in our backend source and isn't passed on, regretfully vanishes into the ether. Thankfully, we have a few folks who refuse to leave or get the hint to do so, so there's a nice enough living memory archive of events/NPCs/and other odds and ends.
Whomever follows in my footsteps should get a good grasp of what went down in my time as guru, though regrettably, there's probably more wishes unfulfilled than realized in my notes.
So in short, some of the juicy stuff is memorialized and other stuffs aren't.
Feel free to ask me anything about my storylines, I like to feel relevant every now and then. :D
GM Scribes
