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GILCHRISTR
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/16/2017 12:49 AM CDT
A fractional rounded-down point of crit weighting is certainly "incremental improvement". Definitely worth the price of admission.
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/17/2017 10:25 AM CDT
Kerl, I did not attend in the Elflands, but my recollection is that there was WPS being offered, correct? So, 100% availability at events, since time of release. Yes, I realize that statistics can be made to say anything, but that's an encouraging sign.
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MadMountain, my point was that multiple people posted about getting multiple invites over the course of Duskruin. I believe the author(s) to whom I was responding ("all items worked on at Duskruin") were assuming that ALL the work got done on the FIRST day that the Smithy was supposed to be open, and completely ignoring the passage of an entire week during which additional invites could be found. This could let you go back and work on the same item again (at the rapidly rising cost), or start a new item with that new work, and pay much less. In the extreme, for someone finding a lot of invites, you could wind up with a series of items such as I describe in #359.
So when the next event rolls around, depending on the day, one or more of those items may still be on the tail-end days of the previous 60-day window, while the first couple may be ready to be inexpensive again.
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MadMountain, my point was that multiple people posted about getting multiple invites over the course of Duskruin. I believe the author(s) to whom I was responding ("all items worked on at Duskruin") were assuming that ALL the work got done on the FIRST day that the Smithy was supposed to be open, and completely ignoring the passage of an entire week during which additional invites could be found. This could let you go back and work on the same item again (at the rapidly rising cost), or start a new item with that new work, and pay much less. In the extreme, for someone finding a lot of invites, you could wind up with a series of items such as I describe in #359.
So when the next event rolls around, depending on the day, one or more of those items may still be on the tail-end days of the previous 60-day window, while the first couple may be ready to be inexpensive again.
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/17/2017 12:44 PM CDT
Only a handful were spun and there was a 5 service point limit. So availability is and a number of points are STILL being tightly controlled. At least that time it was for silvers and not cash.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
GS4-MAZRETH
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/18/2017 06:30 PM CDT
>>Only a handful were spun and there was a 5 service point limit. So availability is and a number of points are STILL being tightly controlled. At least that time it was for silvers and not cash.
To clarify Festival of the Fallen availability:
I had 50 spots of 5 pts each to offer for this festival. I did not block item passing and there were several items that got quite a bit of work. As this service is intended to be quite common, I'm not sure why the 5 pt per spin limit is raising issues. Raising item abilities drastically in a short time was, at least to my understanding, never the intent of the system.
Keep in mind this was the first time it was offered for silvers, which was itself a brand new system.
~Mazreth
"Mother should I trust the Government?"
To clarify Festival of the Fallen availability:
I had 50 spots of 5 pts each to offer for this festival. I did not block item passing and there were several items that got quite a bit of work. As this service is intended to be quite common, I'm not sure why the 5 pt per spin limit is raising issues. Raising item abilities drastically in a short time was, at least to my understanding, never the intent of the system.
Keep in mind this was the first time it was offered for silvers, which was itself a brand new system.
~Mazreth
"Mother should I trust the Government?"
AGONY42
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/18/2017 06:55 PM CDT
>To clarify Festival of the Fallen availability:
Did we get this in Plat? I don't remember hearing about it, and those I spoke to in PlatChat didn't either.
~Issalya
Mazreth: "We had issues getting Issalya bane to work, all it did was point out typos and we decided correction flares weren't actually that desired"
Did we get this in Plat? I don't remember hearing about it, and those I spoke to in PlatChat didn't either.
~Issalya
Mazreth: "We had issues getting Issalya bane to work, all it did was point out typos and we decided correction flares weren't actually that desired"
DOUG
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/18/2017 07:54 PM CDT
>> Raising item abilities drastically in a short time was, at least to my understanding, never the intent of the system.
Yet, raising item abilities drastically in a short time is, at least to my observation, always the desire of the player.
So, two ends of the spectrum defined. And that perhaps explains a part of the feedback. I doubt you'll find very many players (I can probably name over half) who would recognize the good results from this type of system, and how beneficial it truly can be.
Doug
Yet, raising item abilities drastically in a short time is, at least to my observation, always the desire of the player.
So, two ends of the spectrum defined. And that perhaps explains a part of the feedback. I doubt you'll find very many players (I can probably name over half) who would recognize the good results from this type of system, and how beneficial it truly can be.
Doug
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/18/2017 08:04 PM CDT
With silvers, I have less to complain about overall. However, the whole system is a series of gates of limitation - Spinning to get picked, limited amount of points, service surcharges, scaling amount of points needed between actual padding points.
I get that things have to be balanced, but it's discouraging when you have so many things working against you. It wouldn't FEEL that way if the limitation was just - get picked and a surcharge or limit number of points and require an invitation, or just pick any two of the combinations and not use all of them all the time.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
I get that things have to be balanced, but it's discouraging when you have so many things working against you. It wouldn't FEEL that way if the limitation was just - get picked and a surcharge or limit number of points and require an invitation, or just pick any two of the combinations and not use all of them all the time.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
EREK
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 04:37 AM CDT
>> I doubt you'll find very many players (I can probably name over half) who would recognize the good results from this type of system,
Count me in.
Count me in.
JGALT22
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 09:06 AM CDT
>However, the whole system is a series of gates of limitation - Spinning to get picked, limited amount of points, service surcharges, scaling amount of points needed between actual padding points.--Joekups
Those plus crit randomization makes this smell a bit like a casual player/noob trap. Those kinds of players might only get 1 or 2 services per year and while light/deep and getting an item looking the way you want is always 'good', adding 5 new-style points of crit weighting is worse than nothing and nothing short of a computer will notice the difference between a lightly crit weighted weapon and one without any weighting. That plus the service probably represents a big chunk of their bank account.
Maybe all the limiting factors are needed to prevent the hardcore, rich, and MAers from having (more) uber weapons and armor, but they also mean that players on the other end of the spectrum are being effectively shut out of this new service.
Those plus crit randomization makes this smell a bit like a casual player/noob trap. Those kinds of players might only get 1 or 2 services per year and while light/deep and getting an item looking the way you want is always 'good', adding 5 new-style points of crit weighting is worse than nothing and nothing short of a computer will notice the difference between a lightly crit weighted weapon and one without any weighting. That plus the service probably represents a big chunk of their bank account.
Maybe all the limiting factors are needed to prevent the hardcore, rich, and MAers from having (more) uber weapons and armor, but they also mean that players on the other end of the spectrum are being effectively shut out of this new service.
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 09:31 AM CDT
"Those plus crit randomization makes this smell a bit like a casual player/noob trap. [1] Those kinds of players might only get 1 or 2 services per year and while light/deep and getting an item looking the way you want is always 'good', [2] adding 5 new-style points of crit weighting is worse than nothing and nothing short of a computer will notice the difference between a lightly crit weighted weapon and one without any weighting. [3] That plus the service probably represents a big chunk of their bank account." -- JGalt22
First, some clarifications.
1) I believe that you meant "getting access to services", like attending an event. Old-style we had 'points' (like "10 points == heavy"); now we still have points, and we also have new-style "services" building in incremental steps to add up to points (like "150 services gets you to 10 points, heavy"). I find it difficult to believe that any person will be limited to ONLY 1-2 (new-style) 'services' [== .4 points of weighting] in a year.
2) I agree that five (new-style) services [== .5 point] isn't all that much... but it's also going to cost you next to nothing. However, five points is somewhat, half way to heavy, and fairly easily achievable.
3) For a plain-Jane (by comparison; like a 5-6x weapon) item, at Duskruin we were seeing prices quoted of "110 bloodscrip" for 1 service. This is less than one sewer excursion, or ten cents, per service. Considering that for those ten cents they are also going to find some salable items for the pawnshop--making later, silver-based purchases, easier--this is a specious argument. [Heh. See what I did there? Specie? I crack myself up...]
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I believe that everyone is going to wind up being to have dual-padded armor (Enchanted, with flares & Ensorcel), and dual-weighted weapons (Enchanted, with flares & Ensorcel & RotFlares & god-knows what-all else), much more attainably than has been the case for many, many years.
Yes, the rich folks will have an easier time getting there, or will get there faster.
Wanna be rich? Grind out the hunting, like they have. Or merchant, like they have. (I regularly salivate over some of Nuadjha's posts of what he has for trade.)
First, some clarifications.
1) I believe that you meant "getting access to services", like attending an event. Old-style we had 'points' (like "10 points == heavy"); now we still have points, and we also have new-style "services" building in incremental steps to add up to points (like "150 services gets you to 10 points, heavy"). I find it difficult to believe that any person will be limited to ONLY 1-2 (new-style) 'services' [== .4 points of weighting] in a year.
2) I agree that five (new-style) services [== .5 point] isn't all that much... but it's also going to cost you next to nothing. However, five points is somewhat, half way to heavy, and fairly easily achievable.
3) For a plain-Jane (by comparison; like a 5-6x weapon) item, at Duskruin we were seeing prices quoted of "110 bloodscrip" for 1 service. This is less than one sewer excursion, or ten cents, per service. Considering that for those ten cents they are also going to find some salable items for the pawnshop--making later, silver-based purchases, easier--this is a specious argument. [Heh. See what I did there? Specie? I crack myself up...]
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I believe that everyone is going to wind up being to have dual-padded armor (Enchanted, with flares & Ensorcel), and dual-weighted weapons (Enchanted, with flares & Ensorcel & RotFlares & god-knows what-all else), much more attainably than has been the case for many, many years.
Yes, the rich folks will have an easier time getting there, or will get there faster.
Wanna be rich? Grind out the hunting, like they have. Or merchant, like they have. (I regularly salivate over some of Nuadjha's posts of what he has for trade.)
ARCHIGEEK
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 10:22 AM CDT
As a sometimes vociferous voice with concerns about possible shortcomings, I want to add that I think that 50, 5 point services was a great level of service for the Festival of the Fallen. I wasn't aware that much had been offered, because I was mostly busy, but it's nice to see. Thanks.
Kerl
Kerl
COSTELLOK
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 01:59 PM CDT
>This is less than one sewer excursion, or ten cents, per service.
Think this is off by a factor of 10 (before premium/quantity discounts).
Fyonn's player
Think this is off by a factor of 10 (before premium/quantity discounts).
Fyonn's player
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 02:11 PM CDT
Yeah, its ~$50 for ~6000 bs in the sewers = marginal amounts of WPS on basic items. I'm not going to rehash all the math that was already shown, but heres a great example - Off the shelf you can get a "basic" +22 or +27 (5x/6x) Ipantor sighted bow (+5) for 2500 and 2750 bs respectively. That just wasn't possible to have done for the same price or within the same time period (instantly) at the first smithy offering.
Again, silvers are fine and there is a lot wider birth of acceptability because silvers are silvers, even if it's still crazy expensive or takes forever to even get a few REAL points of WPS.
The overall system is great, but it could stand some revisions on pricing/surcharges etc.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Again, silvers are fine and there is a lot wider birth of acceptability because silvers are silvers, even if it's still crazy expensive or takes forever to even get a few REAL points of WPS.
The overall system is great, but it could stand some revisions on pricing/surcharges etc.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 02:23 PM CDT
One service, was quoted as 110 bloodscrip, on a comparatively plain item (like a 6x, no Ensorcel, no flares weapon).
I totally agree with you, that achieving ten services (what provides that first point of weighting), means that you're going to pay more.
But one service, at 110 BS, is less than one run of the sewer.
Ten cents.
I totally agree with you, that achieving ten services (what provides that first point of weighting), means that you're going to pay more.
But one service, at 110 BS, is less than one run of the sewer.
Ten cents.
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 02:48 PM CDT
Wrong, one run of the sewers is $1 when buying 50 count jars for $50 (before all other factors).
At the most generous (premium, $1000 simucoin 'investment') you are at $.35 per sewer/arena run. That's still 3x. The "average" person is buying in at $45 per 50 count jar or higher. So $1 per sewer run is pretty close.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
At the most generous (premium, $1000 simucoin 'investment') you are at $.35 per sewer/arena run. That's still 3x. The "average" person is buying in at $45 per 50 count jar or higher. So $1 per sewer run is pretty close.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 02:58 PM CDT
Were they 100 SimuCoins? I thought they were 10.
(Shows how much attention I paid to the Store.)
Then, yes. A buck(-ish) per service (at the starting level), with increasing prices.
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But my point remains: ONE run--through the sewers, which pays out less (but faster) per instance--translates to "pay for ONE service". (For the low-power items for the low-level people that were raised as an issue.)
If you already have an 8x T3 decently weighted flaring gizmo... you're already not one of the notional 'poor people' being concerned over.
(Shows how much attention I paid to the Store.)
Then, yes. A buck(-ish) per service (at the starting level), with increasing prices.
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But my point remains: ONE run--through the sewers, which pays out less (but faster) per instance--translates to "pay for ONE service". (For the low-power items for the low-level people that were raised as an issue.)
If you already have an 8x T3 decently weighted flaring gizmo... you're already not one of the notional 'poor people' being concerned over.
JGALT22
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 03:02 PM CDT
I'm sorry Krakii, but all I get from your response is that you have trouble even conceiving of a new or casual player. They're the people without a large bank account, that don't attend pay events, and are limited to, at best, 1-2 services per year not by Simu, but by not having all the advantages long-term and/or hardcore players have and take for granted. I'm not saying they deserve massive w/p/s. What I'm saying is that setting up the possibility that they use their highly infrequent merchant time to add 5 or 10 new-style points strikes me as mean when it either offers zero mechanical benefit or such a small benefit that's it's impossible to notice.
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 04:02 PM CDT
Let's not forget that you couldn't even get a smithy invite running the sewers... Unless you hit one of the ultra-rare envelopes. Every part of your analogy just has more and more catches and gotchas, which is exactly my complaint from the start when people are paying CASH to get services.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KANDOR
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 04:24 PM CDT
If a casual player added 5 points to a couple items each service interval, their gear will eventually be pretty nice. It'll take a long time but, since they are casual players, they probably don't care that much.
>Off the shelf you can get a "basic" +22 or +27 (5x/6x) Ipantor sighted bow (+5) for 2500 and 2750 bs respectively. That just wasn't possible to have done for the same price or within the same time period (instantly) at the first smithy offering.
I'm not sure I see why sighted materials like ipantor shouldn't be less expensive than adding sighting to a different kind of material. Is it necessary to correlate the costs between bringing a 0x bow up to the level of ipantor? If the costs were the same, would there be any reason to have ipantor anymore?
>Off the shelf you can get a "basic" +22 or +27 (5x/6x) Ipantor sighted bow (+5) for 2500 and 2750 bs respectively. That just wasn't possible to have done for the same price or within the same time period (instantly) at the first smithy offering.
I'm not sure I see why sighted materials like ipantor shouldn't be less expensive than adding sighting to a different kind of material. Is it necessary to correlate the costs between bringing a 0x bow up to the level of ipantor? If the costs were the same, would there be any reason to have ipantor anymore?
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 04:56 PM CDT
A casual player is not going to have the funds to add a couple points to a couple items each time, even IF they could get work done on a couple items each offering. The costs, even at silvers, are still very high for even a few points. I'd love to see some of the numbers from people who had work done for silvers because I only have a frame of reference based on an upper-middle tier item - 6x T2 voln armor cost ~850k silver to put 5 service points (not even 1 full point) of damage padding on. No other stats, no other paddings. There are casual people who have trouble gathering up a couple hundred thousand silvers. There are long-time players who've never seen more than a few million silvers in their bank accounts (or they just like lying about it).
100k for a couple of service points that don't give them any mechanical benefits can be a hard pill to swallow. The costs of adding WPS increases the values of the items that already have Heavy values because its that much more expensive to add. I also understand that premium point HCP is being adjusted now based on the changes to enchanting as well? So that's something that lost value/costs more.
Gemstone is a game for the haves - Have a bunch of free time? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of extra cash sitting around? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of silvers? You may or may not get what you want (but you probably needed one of the first two to get all those silvers).
As for the material Ipantor... Good question. I think it makes it that much more valuable because it already has a certain level of work already built into it. It also generates in the treasure system. And yes, I think its 100% necessary to correlate because these are examples of items and their values as the game already has established. If there isn't parity, why not? I can think of a few reasons, ranging the gambit of motivations.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
100k for a couple of service points that don't give them any mechanical benefits can be a hard pill to swallow. The costs of adding WPS increases the values of the items that already have Heavy values because its that much more expensive to add. I also understand that premium point HCP is being adjusted now based on the changes to enchanting as well? So that's something that lost value/costs more.
Gemstone is a game for the haves - Have a bunch of free time? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of extra cash sitting around? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of silvers? You may or may not get what you want (but you probably needed one of the first two to get all those silvers).
As for the material Ipantor... Good question. I think it makes it that much more valuable because it already has a certain level of work already built into it. It also generates in the treasure system. And yes, I think its 100% necessary to correlate because these are examples of items and their values as the game already has established. If there isn't parity, why not? I can think of a few reasons, ranging the gambit of motivations.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KANDOR
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 08:36 PM CDT
Right. I suspect we'd need to nail down exactly how casual a player we're talking about, for this to make sense. Some players are casual enough that they don't go to paid events, and others aren't interested in weighting/etc. anyway. Some of the weighting services won't be offered for silver, so the casual player could be accruing scrip or whatever to redeem for it. Or, maybe the casual player doesn't go to paid events. I figure most casual players could hit 2-3 a year, and afford the price.
I think the availability of this service at a paid event may convince some folks to attend that haven't been interested in weighting in the past. It gives them something they can build slowly over time, which is a big part of what this game has been about (inadvertently, I think, until fairly recently). However, I do agree with you that eligibility for a a regular service shouldn't be a slot-machine win, if it's already at a paid event. The event ticket should guarantee entry; the scrip or equivalent is what buys the service.
I like that ipantor, sephwir, yew, razern offer some amount of weighting/etc. off the shelf. I'd like to see more differences in the base materials. It should make them that much more valuable, just as a drakar weapon should also be somehow more valuable. Maybe, cheaper to add greater flares, or something subtle like elemental resistance. I can go buy 4x armor off the shelf in almost any town, but I don't begrudge them because it'd take me several weeks to enchant up 0x armor. I understand there's an order of magnitude difference, but it's conceptually similar.
>Gemstone is a game for the haves - Have a bunch of free time? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of extra cash sitting around? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of silvers? You may or may not get what you want (but you probably needed one of the first two to get all those silvers).
This is the same for all successful games: they need players to attract other players, and they need money to survive as a company. Either you have tons of time to mine your own gold or you pay someone to do it for you. I knew one or two PCs early on who had 2-3 different players who played them at different times of the day, or different days of the week, or.. when the first person ran over their hourly $$ quota for the month. That way the character advanced rapidly (this was well before Lumnis) and each player could just be a casual gamer. But, it confused people because you never knew which one you were talking to, and they didn't remember half of what happened to the character. I'm not sure if it was against the game's terms of service, but after all it wasn't hurting much. They could just bring it IC and roleplay amnesiacs.
The silvers thing is a different topic, and I won't go into it again here. I think, if these are things players don't want, they won't pay for them. I know there are players that don't go to pay events. I know there are players that aren't interested in weighting, unless it falls in their lap. I think the idea is to make it feel like a token thing, that gradually turns vanilla gear into some pretty cool stuff. But it will take years, and for casual players to do it without hired help will certainly take longer.
I think the availability of this service at a paid event may convince some folks to attend that haven't been interested in weighting in the past. It gives them something they can build slowly over time, which is a big part of what this game has been about (inadvertently, I think, until fairly recently). However, I do agree with you that eligibility for a a regular service shouldn't be a slot-machine win, if it's already at a paid event. The event ticket should guarantee entry; the scrip or equivalent is what buys the service.
I like that ipantor, sephwir, yew, razern offer some amount of weighting/etc. off the shelf. I'd like to see more differences in the base materials. It should make them that much more valuable, just as a drakar weapon should also be somehow more valuable. Maybe, cheaper to add greater flares, or something subtle like elemental resistance. I can go buy 4x armor off the shelf in almost any town, but I don't begrudge them because it'd take me several weeks to enchant up 0x armor. I understand there's an order of magnitude difference, but it's conceptually similar.
>Gemstone is a game for the haves - Have a bunch of free time? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of extra cash sitting around? You'll get what you want. Have a bunch of silvers? You may or may not get what you want (but you probably needed one of the first two to get all those silvers).
This is the same for all successful games: they need players to attract other players, and they need money to survive as a company. Either you have tons of time to mine your own gold or you pay someone to do it for you. I knew one or two PCs early on who had 2-3 different players who played them at different times of the day, or different days of the week, or.. when the first person ran over their hourly $$ quota for the month. That way the character advanced rapidly (this was well before Lumnis) and each player could just be a casual gamer. But, it confused people because you never knew which one you were talking to, and they didn't remember half of what happened to the character. I'm not sure if it was against the game's terms of service, but after all it wasn't hurting much. They could just bring it IC and roleplay amnesiacs.
The silvers thing is a different topic, and I won't go into it again here. I think, if these are things players don't want, they won't pay for them. I know there are players that don't go to pay events. I know there are players that aren't interested in weighting, unless it falls in their lap. I think the idea is to make it feel like a token thing, that gradually turns vanilla gear into some pretty cool stuff. But it will take years, and for casual players to do it without hired help will certainly take longer.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 09:02 PM CDT
>> I also understand that premium point HCP is being adjusted now based on the changes to enchanting as well? So that's something that lost value/costs more. ~JOKEUPS
Source?
-- Robert
You gesture at a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
The scream of tortured metal echoes around you as the lightning bolt strikes a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
Source?
-- Robert
You gesture at a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
The scream of tortured metal echoes around you as the lightning bolt strikes a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/19/2017 09:23 PM CDT
Rumours that I am looking to get confirmation of.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/20/2017 06:28 AM CDT
Pretty sure you'll find a GM post that said that PremiumPoint weighting was going to remain entirely unchanged. It'll take you to 'heavy'/10 points, same as before.
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Okay, now "not getting an invite to the smithy at all" is a telling point in not getting services done. So I had discounted that.
Then again, that was done, THIS time, because it was the introduction of an entirely new system, and they wanted to keep the numbers manageable.
Next time? May be completely automated, you walk up and get the weapon hammered on and you're done.
We don't know, yet.
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I am the one with difficulty thinking about casual players?
Who are the ones talking off-handedly about buying 50-run books, possibly in multiples? (I bought a single, to try, and died in the Arena. That was around 8 days into the event--the what, 4th? 5th? time it's been run--and I was curious enough, I bought another book of 10. All told, I made precisely 31 runs. Total. In a two-week event. The sixth (5th?) time it's been run. I've made 31 runs, ever. That's pretty casual.)
Stop focusing on "who got invited" or other mechanics--at this unusual, first-time, testing-the-release, version of the service--and focus on what I'm saying about the COST. That's where we started from.
The cost, that was posted multiple times, was pretty reliably a floor of 110 bloodscrip for a single new-service.
The result, very easily achievable in the sewer, is reliably about that much.
Hell, even when I was getting killed by the traps in the Arena, I was coming out with about that much.
And again: if your item is going to cost you 400+ points for a single service... it ain't no plain-Jane item, and odds are you ain't what either one of us is going to call a 'casual' player.
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Okay, now "not getting an invite to the smithy at all" is a telling point in not getting services done. So I had discounted that.
Then again, that was done, THIS time, because it was the introduction of an entirely new system, and they wanted to keep the numbers manageable.
Next time? May be completely automated, you walk up and get the weapon hammered on and you're done.
We don't know, yet.
.
I am the one with difficulty thinking about casual players?
Who are the ones talking off-handedly about buying 50-run books, possibly in multiples? (I bought a single, to try, and died in the Arena. That was around 8 days into the event--the what, 4th? 5th? time it's been run--and I was curious enough, I bought another book of 10. All told, I made precisely 31 runs. Total. In a two-week event. The sixth (5th?) time it's been run. I've made 31 runs, ever. That's pretty casual.)
Stop focusing on "who got invited" or other mechanics--at this unusual, first-time, testing-the-release, version of the service--and focus on what I'm saying about the COST. That's where we started from.
The cost, that was posted multiple times, was pretty reliably a floor of 110 bloodscrip for a single new-service.
The result, very easily achievable in the sewer, is reliably about that much.
Hell, even when I was getting killed by the traps in the Arena, I was coming out with about that much.
And again: if your item is going to cost you 400+ points for a single service... it ain't no plain-Jane item, and odds are you ain't what either one of us is going to call a 'casual' player.
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/20/2017 06:41 AM CDT
No one is talking about the amount of WPS, I said the cost in Premium points to get that same WPS. I have a scroll in and we'll see if it gets denied or adjusted as is what I heard.
"This time" was experimenting with your cash money that goes to subsidize the game. If you are ok with that then that is on you, I personally am NOT okay with spending my cash on experiments and testing. The last run of duskruin and the smithy delt a major blow to my comfort level with the direction of the game. As someone who is perfectly ok with spending large sums of money when I feel I am getting the value for it, I no longer felt my best interests were involved when it came to the smithy and the direction it was headed. That was further cemeted when even Wyrom mentioned that he felt the specifics needed to be tweaked, but apparently the Product manager of the game doesn't actually dictate anything and some shadow cabal of people dictated the direction? So we'll see how much longer the game is fun not spending simucoins.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
"This time" was experimenting with your cash money that goes to subsidize the game. If you are ok with that then that is on you, I personally am NOT okay with spending my cash on experiments and testing. The last run of duskruin and the smithy delt a major blow to my comfort level with the direction of the game. As someone who is perfectly ok with spending large sums of money when I feel I am getting the value for it, I no longer felt my best interests were involved when it came to the smithy and the direction it was headed. That was further cemeted when even Wyrom mentioned that he felt the specifics needed to be tweaked, but apparently the Product manager of the game doesn't actually dictate anything and some shadow cabal of people dictated the direction? So we'll see how much longer the game is fun not spending simucoins.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
KRAKII
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/20/2017 09:11 AM CDT
"the Product manager of the game doesn't actually dictate anything and some shadow cabal of people dictated the direction?" -- JoeKups
This does not substantially differ from any leadership position.
President Trump probably knows jack-squat about nuclear carriers' operational tempo, so he consults people who do to then give him what he needs to know in order to make a decision. (Which he will then Tweet. <snort>)
PM Wyrom flat-out said that he consults with his Mechanical Guys (like, GM Coase) when he wants to find out the specifics of some system, or what changes may be permitted within the bounds of what they want to be possible.
.
Now, if you want to go be blaming some shadowy cabal...
For that you can refer to PM Wyrom's posts about the timing of paid events and the decision making for things like that.
He has--many times--posted that he has received directives, or that <certain features> were out of his hands entirely.
I have to go now, the Black Airships are hovering on their veniom vanes.
This does not substantially differ from any leadership position.
President Trump probably knows jack-squat about nuclear carriers' operational tempo, so he consults people who do to then give him what he needs to know in order to make a decision. (Which he will then Tweet. <snort>)
PM Wyrom flat-out said that he consults with his Mechanical Guys (like, GM Coase) when he wants to find out the specifics of some system, or what changes may be permitted within the bounds of what they want to be possible.
.
Now, if you want to go be blaming some shadowy cabal...
For that you can refer to PM Wyrom's posts about the timing of paid events and the decision making for things like that.
He has--many times--posted that he has received directives, or that <certain features> were out of his hands entirely.
I have to go now, the Black Airships are hovering on their veniom vanes.
WORDMAGIC
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/20/2017 06:08 PM CDT
>>Black Airships are hovering on their veniom vanes
I was recently researching veniom for potential alters and thus totally got your elf metal airship reference. It was cute.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
I was recently researching veniom for potential alters and thus totally got your elf metal airship reference. It was cute.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
JOEKUPS
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/21/2017 10:38 AM CDT
big mea culpa - there does not appear to be any changes to padding costs in premium points. Just got some armor done VERY quickly. So, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
GS4-KYNLEE
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/21/2017 12:17 PM CDT
<I also understand that premium point HCP is being adjusted now based on the changes to enchanting as well? So that's something that lost value/costs more. ~JOKEUPS
I'm not really sure where this came from, but padding via Premium Points works the same as it did before. If there are changes, there will be announcements posted by staff and a news item.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Elanthian Architect
Breaker of Things
GS4-Kynlee@play.net
3/50
I'm not really sure where this came from, but padding via Premium Points works the same as it did before. If there are changes, there will be announcements posted by staff and a news item.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Elanthian Architect
Breaker of Things
GS4-Kynlee@play.net
3/50
FALAN
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/21/2017 02:12 PM CDT
I'm still curious if we're voodoo'd at EG to use the smithy a 2nd time or not due to the smithy being late at DR since nobody is going to be past the 60 day mark. :-/
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
CLUNK24963
Re: services from Merchants / costs / etc
09/21/2017 04:57 PM CDT
>>I was recently researching veniom for potential alters and thus totally got your elf metal airship reference. It was cute.
Ifn twazznt fer dwarfs figgerin out how to fly, airships wuldn be.
And krolv'n wuld be runnin Teras Isle.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
