I'm just curious if spells become a common place post cap, or even pre cap for warriors.
Highest level I've hit with a warrior is level 25ish so I've never given it much thought. To those that do train in spells, what spells do you know and do you make use of any of them in combat (such as ewave)?
-Drumpel
DRUMPEL
RATHBONER
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 09:46 AM CST
My opinion is that they aren't necessary at cap, but they are key for adding power post cap. My analysis of my brief forays into post cap areas, rapidly ended by death or lucky escape, is that I need to learn 430 before coming back. I don't reckon there's a lot of point learning any until I'm ready to push straight to 430, so its still probably a couple of years to get to about 2x cap before I start on them, though someone who was in a hurry to get to post cap areas would likely have 430 well before I even start on spells.
I'd expect warriors that really felt they had to have ewave would imbed it rather than give up their plate, even though I suspect far enough post cap plate's main effect is the extra loot all that free encumberance from support and lightening allow to be carried. Who's going to give up 3 boxes per hunt in order to dress and cast like a rogue? I think it becomes viable, but I expect anyone that actually gets to the point where it becomes viable will be too attached to their plate to locker it.
I'd expect warriors that really felt they had to have ewave would imbed it rather than give up their plate, even though I suspect far enough post cap plate's main effect is the extra loot all that free encumberance from support and lightening allow to be carried. Who's going to give up 3 boxes per hunt in order to dress and cast like a rogue? I think it becomes viable, but I expect anyone that actually gets to the point where it becomes viable will be too attached to their plate to locker it.
CAVEMANIAC
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 10:09 AM CST
I believe that spells are common practice once the core physical skills are achieved. That being said, I dropped down from 3x dodge to 2.5x dodge to learn 425 alittle faster after I capped because I was impatient. My warrior will stay at 425 for a while but I believe 430 is a common goal for the TD. I do not use any spells directly in combat due to full plate hindrance, however, I frequently eblade my wooden weapon so I can hit things in the confluence. I also imbed things like ewave for my own use from time to time.
KRAKII
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 10:27 AM CST
"I frequently eblade my wooden weapon" -- CaveManiac
Okay, serious style points for this. :)
Okay, serious style points for this. :)
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 02:09 PM CST
I don't think they are common. I managed 425 at 110th level in XP. I'm 130th now and I cannot afford 430 as I've had to train up my primary combat skills for survival and functionality. Achieving 430 is normally a level 138-140 equivalent. There are a few warriors who have 75 ranks in MnE and 20 ranks in MnS, but they are past 200th level and normally in the 230th level range for XP.
I'd number the spell trained warriors at about 7-9 and all of them are very high in the XP ranges. They make up about 1/3rd of the post cap population as an estimate so the other 2/3 are pure combat focused.
As to redux I took about a level/tier hit or a 10-15% reduction in critical for spell training.
-Geijon
I'd number the spell trained warriors at about 7-9 and all of them are very high in the XP ranges. They make up about 1/3rd of the post cap population as an estimate so the other 2/3 are pure combat focused.
As to redux I took about a level/tier hit or a 10-15% reduction in critical for spell training.
-Geijon
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 04:17 PM CST
Roblar responded in the other topic so I'd combine my response with his. I really took most of my queues from Jeril, Roblar, Kerl and Cryheart. I'd add though that I was always a magical leaning warrior. In GS III I had mana and share then I had arcane scroll and MIU use in GSIV before I went back into spells and now I have mana share again with about 100 mana.
DRUMPEL
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 08:08 PM CST
It's always kind of struck me as odd that warriors could learn magic spells. I know, it's a fantasy game/land, but a warrior is the master of physical feats and combat....why would one be able to learn magic? In my mind, that would make you a paladin....a weak version of a paladin, but nonetheless, a paladin.
I feel if you wanted more of a square type build, but wanted to utilize magic - rogue would be your route. Rogues are good at manipulating things, it makes more sense that they can go the route of magic...at least to me.
Anyway, it's nice to hear things from both sides of the fence. Always gives me something to keep in mind should I ever get my warrior up to cap level.
-Drumpel
I feel if you wanted more of a square type build, but wanted to utilize magic - rogue would be your route. Rogues are good at manipulating things, it makes more sense that they can go the route of magic...at least to me.
Anyway, it's nice to hear things from both sides of the fence. Always gives me something to keep in mind should I ever get my warrior up to cap level.
-Drumpel
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 08:54 PM CST
We all had a chance to be paladins, beast paladins, but we knew with the Warrior Guild, XP training, spell access and Redux that we were far more beast as Warriors. A post-cap XP path or even 3X CMAN doesn't re-write our class. We're about #7 in terms of strength and overall power within the game. We're OK with that. We'd like to be able to taunt or do some kind of group mitigation with more varied combat stances and stun or AOE stun options. Even if they added those we shouldn't have to give up a spell circle or training path that no other class has ever been subject to offering up.
I was a sword & board, mana sharing, Voln-Fu warrior up to Gemstone IV from 1995-2003. I've wielded a Maul since with no spells until post cap, which was 2009-2016 basically then you cap out in everything almost instantly at cap for a warrior if you are near or at Master of Arms for the guild.
A lot of us are invested in RP, but we like the combat aspects and invasions. You can't level entirely off invasions, although at times it has been bountiful, without some kind of XP path. SoS and Reim are those new carrots, but you have to have an investment path.
I could train in UAC, but it doesn't fit my Voln path the same as Fu did. I could do mana share/AS/MIU with heroism scrolls, but I can also reach some pretty darn good spells if I give up redux. No other class has to even consider a trade-off in any of their training beyond the TP cost, but we sacrifice redux ranks to do spells as a kind of taboo training path. It's expensive, but I commented already that a lot of Warriors in the actual spell trained path are 18-25 million XP/230th level type of players.
Do you want to make suggestions that just reset them to cap and give them no alternatives?
I was a sword & board, mana sharing, Voln-Fu warrior up to Gemstone IV from 1995-2003. I've wielded a Maul since with no spells until post cap, which was 2009-2016 basically then you cap out in everything almost instantly at cap for a warrior if you are near or at Master of Arms for the guild.
A lot of us are invested in RP, but we like the combat aspects and invasions. You can't level entirely off invasions, although at times it has been bountiful, without some kind of XP path. SoS and Reim are those new carrots, but you have to have an investment path.
I could train in UAC, but it doesn't fit my Voln path the same as Fu did. I could do mana share/AS/MIU with heroism scrolls, but I can also reach some pretty darn good spells if I give up redux. No other class has to even consider a trade-off in any of their training beyond the TP cost, but we sacrifice redux ranks to do spells as a kind of taboo training path. It's expensive, but I commented already that a lot of Warriors in the actual spell trained path are 18-25 million XP/230th level type of players.
Do you want to make suggestions that just reset them to cap and give them no alternatives?
CAVEMANIAC
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 10:44 PM CST
I have seen Redux mentioned a couple of times and I am curious. If a warrior were to have 101 spell ranks (and the DS that comes with it) in addition to decent gear and other maxed combat skills and/or EBP masteries, how much redux does one really need? You'll still have some Redux but barring boss invasion creatures you'll have much more favorable combat resolutions most of the time reducing its importance.
If Redux became a factor in warding spells or other sources of damage besides AS/DS attacks it would be a different story.
If Redux became a factor in warding spells or other sources of damage besides AS/DS attacks it would be a different story.
ROBLAR
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/19/2017 11:30 PM CST
It depends on how many redux points probably.
I didn't begin learning spells until most major physical goals were reached, and the penalty is mostly balanced by the higher defenses. Of course, I was used to using a shield so really what it ultimately did was improve my offense (and so defense directly and indirectly) by allowing TWC and MOC to be a less painful experience. Which, I mean to say getting the DS back up from what it was with a shield out.
That works most places outside (some) invasions, and the Scatter (or really how much loot you pick up), or an emperor with feras etc.
But less redux points in physical redux skills will probably gimp you somewhere if you learn too many of those expensive ranks too early.
I didn't begin learning spells until most major physical goals were reached, and the penalty is mostly balanced by the higher defenses. Of course, I was used to using a shield so really what it ultimately did was improve my offense (and so defense directly and indirectly) by allowing TWC and MOC to be a less painful experience. Which, I mean to say getting the DS back up from what it was with a shield out.
That works most places outside (some) invasions, and the Scatter (or really how much loot you pick up), or an emperor with feras etc.
But less redux points in physical redux skills will probably gimp you somewhere if you learn too many of those expensive ranks too early.
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Spells - common practice post cap?
01/25/2017 04:43 PM CST
The penalty to redux was far worse before someone decided that semi's should get some redux. At that point the formula was changed and the penalty for spells was greatly reduced.
Kerl
Kerl
