This is an example of my main complaint about cmans, grims, and how the system works for creatures period. I do realize this is not a grim, but it is an ally, and my point being, The grims are much more harsh then this..


A raider orc darts forward and raps you a stunning blow with his twohanded sword.
S>

S>stance def
You are still stunned.

S>stance def
You are still stunned.

>stance
You are currently at a guarded stance.

>
A raider orc swings a twohanded sword at you!
You evade the attack by inches!

>
A giant marmot waddles in.
>
A giant marmot waddles in.
>
>
A raider orc swings a twohanded sword at you!
AS: +132 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +8 = -269
A clean miss.
>
A giant marmot tries to bite you!
AS: +131 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +65 = -227
A clean miss.

There is just no reason a level 9 critter should be able to use any maneuver on someone 50 trains or higher and have it work, especially when I have cunning defense mastered. and swinging a weapon at me at best gets a -200 roll.

This is such a selective nerf of one single portion of bards that the outcry will never be there. Please return 1030 to the way its supposed to work and come up with another way to address your problem with 1030 being too effective in camps.

There are so many ways that people clean up in warcamps that picking this one is horrible.

GBB

I've tried using a weapon and using 1030 in camps, at various times, both before and since the changes to grimswarms. Even if I was primarily using my weapon, I had 1030 as a possible "last minute save my bacon" spell, to give me some breathing room. Since the changes, in my personal opinion, soloing warcamps as a bard is not worth the cost in deeds. The difference is staggering. I suggest either removing the nerf for 1030, parsing it down, or giving bards access to some of the new cmans. Either way, I'm going to go read up on voln some more.

Sorcerers got past it and so will you.

When did this happen?!

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!

>From just what you have posted here I have to say that you do not know the history of the spell, its current or past uses, or much of anything to be qualified to judge it.

I'd imagine the GM who changed the spell was qualified to judge it though. He was saying bards were regularly going in and frying in 5 seconds. Does that not sound OP to you at all?

>Sorcerers have an entire circle of spells that took the place of 719 and 702 when they were changed. 717 was never to be immune to the shroud. 1008 is a disabling spell, making 1030 damage only is wrong and that is all we got.

Thats the thing though, sorcerers are pures and meant to be pures and bards are semis. The only reason people can play them as pures is because 1030 is that crazy. Personally, I'd just be glad they only nerfed 1030 in warcamps.

> If I took a 21 million (GBBs current total) experience cleric, wizard, sorc, fighter, rogue, paladin, empath into a camp you can be sure I will be fried in 5 seconds and will have finished my task in 10.

Being a measely 15mil exp fighter Id have a hard time believing you could fry reliably in 5 seconds. If I berserk and theres a pure turtled with wall of force up in fact its a great way to die. I typically have to feint and ambush heads on the pures(3 seconds to feint, another 6 to ambush), sometimes even spell cleaving and praying I hit a DS spell instead of something pointless like light blues. Same with rogue, how exactly would you kill 10-12 things in 5 seconds? Im more of a player of a square so maybe with 515 the pures could, I dunno.

>So we are to nerf all hybrids now because they are effective? All this mumbo jumbo about nerfing war wizards and empaths has never come to fruition but lets start the hybrid kill off with bards? One of the joys of this game is diversity and play styles. Making all bards alike and indeed all classes homogeneous is not in the best interest of the game IMO.

The problem is war wizards/empaths arent more proficient at melee than the squares. If war wizards had a higher AS, could berserk etc and have all the wizard benefits like haste you can bet there would be uproar. There's nothing wrong with alternative paths but with every other profession its a trade off. Paladins swing a weapon harder than a warrior too, can you even imagine a pure paladin? It would be a joke.

"I would like another solution to a problem he views as a bard frying in 5 seconds and any other profession going in there and frying in 5 seconds completing tasks in 10 seconds or any other hyberbole. If I took a 21 million (GBBs current total) experience cleric, wizard, sorc, fighter, rogue, paladin, empath into a camp you can be sure I will be fried in 5 seconds and will have finished my task in 10.-me"


"Being a measely 15mil exp fighter Id have a hard time believing you could fry reliably in 5 seconds. If I berserk and theres a pure turtled with wall of force up in fact its a great way to die. I typically have to feint and ambush heads on the pures(3 seconds to feint, another 6 to ambush), sometimes even spell cleaving and praying I hit a DS spell instead of something pointless like light blues. Same with rogue, how exactly would you kill 10-12 things in 5 seconds? Im more of a player of a square so maybe with 515 the pures could, I dunno.-shayd11"

Key word you missed there is hyperbole, but lets come up with some examples. Warcamps as you know are not instantly filled with creatures upon entering. You have a few guards walking around and those guards and whatever is called in groups of 2 or 3 are what attacks you. From then on waves of 2-4 continue until the warcamp is empty. 4 is pretty rare and so is 1 at a time so usually 2 or 3 come up. So in 10 second NO ONE can fry and leave. So what I want to relay by what I said is that every profession I named can go into a camp destroy everything as fast as they spawn come out fried just as fast a bard can. A warriors trample ability is insane, cmans, shields, guildskills control of any grouping of grimswarm is guaranteed. Rogue going in an sniping things would have to sound the alert themselves in order to get noticed. Ewave and three arrows to the eye would do most of them in. Gibreficul would probably throw daggers.

A paladin can be a pure at my experience. So can a Ranger and neither is getting all this talk about OP. Have you seen 1630/635 at 500+ CS? Given enough experience Jeril has proven warriors are just fine in the AS department versus paladins and bards. If anything rangers and rogues have something to complain about except they ambush so well that any end roll means death. The grass is always greener on the other side is human nature, but its not a fact. Chances are your grass is plenty green.

GBB

>>I'd get a good laugh out of seeing someone try and work up the levels as a pure casting paladin though.<<

You would have to be at a certain level to make it work; level 1 wouldn't have either the attack spells or the mana. Heck, most folks playing pure spell caster types start off using weapons; there just isn't enough mana. But I did pull out my level 41 paladin, dropped all weapon skills and such, and called up the Goals page. I pumped up just paladin spell levels and harness power. I think I was able to grab 54 ranks of spells and 50 or so HP. Considering that she can already do some nasty damage with 1615 and 1630, it might actually be viable.

I am seriously tempted to wait till May 1st and try it. That way, if it doesn't work out, I can always fixskill back on or after May 20 :)

The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

I had my first opportunity to go up against the new and improved grimswarm (or "swarmies" as I like to call them) these past few days and wanted to say that I enjoy the additional challenge! During several patrol missions I experienced a couple of near death (and one death) experience where in the past it has been more of a routine outing (go out, kill x, come back and bask in the glory of a job well done). Death hasn't been a very real possibility for quite some time.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate and enjoy the additional challenge the swarmies are providing now!

-- Robert