When ripping though levels Lumnis is less than 10% of my experience. Bounty rewards are about 60%. Its bounty experience that has really sped up levelling not Lumnis.

Lumnis kills levels 0-5 because you start out with it active but after your first 6 hours its bounties that allow you to zip through levels at a supercharged rate.

I don't think it's brand new people ripping through those first levels. It's peoples ALTs right? Why force them to slowly replay stuff they've already done? Many(most? all?) characters don't get many of their more interesting abilities until at least the teens anyway. If I had the option to click a button and lose the respect thing and just start at 20, I would do it. Those levels are a grind (to me).

>>I would like to make a simple request. Remove "Gift of Lumnis" for the first 30 days.

Actually, I'd like to ask the reverse. Keep the "Gift of Lumnis" up for the whole 30 days or 20 levels please. They are just "learning levels" in my opinion and haven't done much for me other than getting through tediousness of early levels.

<Having an account full of level 11 characters, I can honestly say that if the gift were extended, they would continue to grow.

In the same boat, with the same opinion.

General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

>I agree with this. The early levels go by way too fast now. I think one reason I have so many characters is that I enjoy going back through those areas again. The lower level hunting areas are some of the most fun in the game, and now you are done with them in a hunt or two.

>DVDMORSE


Up until Tanivar, I hadn't played a character past level 30. Those were the fun years, in a world with a lot to do.

I'm got Tanivar up close to 84 now and there is little to hunt and the grind has been only tolerable because it was the first slog through it all with some things I hadn't seen before. It's not a trip I'll wade through again.

Make the first 20 or 30 levels take far longer. That's where the true joy of playing Gemstone is. After that the fun is a long downhill tedious trip.


Tanivar Somakre

Healing, you want it, you shall have it.

>But really; after 30 you have plenty to do. Varunar, Shan, Darkstone, Broken Lands, Stronghold, Bowels, Bonespear, Pinefar, Citadel ... there's something for everyone.

>THROGG

I didn't say a sudden dropoff, I said that the fun is a long downhill tedious trip after 30.

Which is true. :)

I've given thought in the past to fixskilling all his training points into a pool and just going back to the early hunting days waving a sword on the Mine road. I'd likely have the points to train him decently in Cmans and the other melee skills. The only drawback being anyone that level hunting with him would get shafted where treasure is concerned. The monsters would concentrate on high level Tanivar though, which would be nice for others in a hunting party as a tradeoff.


Tanivar Somakre

Healing, you want it, you shall have it.

<The monsters would concentrate on high level Tanivar though, which would be nice for others in a hunting party as a tradeoff.>

This is incorrect, they won't concentrate on you due to leveling but would very likely run off in fear (appropriately). They have a sense when they are overmatched.

The only monsters that concentrate on you that I know of are those spawned by you, such as bandits or Grimswarm.

That should just be good luck for you!

But in your example, if they were instead aiding you in your hunting grounds, those critters are more likely to flee the room than engage the older characters (versus you).

So group hunting with a much older character who has gimped themselves to be similar in ability to young creatures will induce some actions where they run, more than focusing attacks on the older character. Either way, some action rounds will not be attacks so might still be a benefit for a younger character to group with you.

>>you will still be a level 100 threat<<

He's only 84; a mere babe in arms.

>>The only drawback being anyone that level hunting with him would get shafted where treasure is concerned. <<

That depends on how you help out. If you don't kill anything and don't loot, I am pretty sure it doesn't affect the treasure. My empath goes out all the time to help friends hunt or do AG tasks, and they seem to get treasure just fine. She confines her assistance to keeping her friends healed, and keeping the critters all smiley by casting empathy repeatedly.

>>I'd likely have the points to train him decently in Cmans and the other melee skills<<

Gee, ya think?
Can you say "mutant"? I knew you could!
Lores? Lores? I don't need no stinking lores!

>>skill
Guennhafyr (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 90 20
Combat Maneuvers...................| 201 101
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 204 104
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 355 255
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 151 51
Harness Power......................| 200 100
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 170 70
First Aid..........................| 300 200

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 61

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 58

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 114
Training Points: 2 Phy 22 Mnt<<

Look ma! No TPs converted!

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

>I said that the fun is a long downhill tedious trip after 30.

Definitely not my experience. It wasn't until about 30 trains, 20 at least, where it started to become more "fun" for me and my characters. Better equipment, better spells. The "best" times have been in the 40's and 50's in my experience. The creatures are a bit tougher and my character has more abilities. When you add in society skills, maneuvers, and spells, a LOT more fun down the road in my opinion. AND, I can last more than 2 seconds in an invasion nowadays. Probably like 5 seconds now.

>>You always have the general player base for support, but the automatic systems in towns assume that level 5 is the top out point. I think it should be much higher.

I agree, the town should support new character development beyond level 5, perhaps even up to level 15.




~The red-robed summoner steps forward, bows respectfully, then steps back. His hood falls back slightly and his dark sea blue eyes stare out from the shadows. He grins wickedly, then steps into the shadows.

I think the problem is not_so_simple (tm).

For example, we want to have more things to do in the first portion of the game, and more ways to enjoy it. And for example, we want more things to do in the last portion of the game, and more ways to enjoy it.

For example, it is a shame that a lot of new characters are set up to 'race' through the first 30 days, taking steps to maximize gains in level at the expense of 'enjoying the lore of the lands.' And for example, a lot of more tenured players are interested in creating characters with levels (for a variety of reasons) as rapidly as possible and don't need to 'revisit the lore of the lands' in their view.

For example, the Gift does permit a rather interesting motivation when combined with the first 30 days of re-skilling and the first 5 attempts at re-stat allocation to side step what tenured players may consider a 'grind' to their new goal. And for example, new players seeking help may be given this as 'guidance' on how to enjoy the game 'more quickly'.

For example, the game isn't intended to be 'won' or 'accomplished' in three months (I'll leave the debate to how long it should take alone, for right now and request responders do the same here, since this is targeted player 'help'). And for example, the game can take years, sometimes more than a decade, to achieve the 'pinnacle', only to find out that there's more to be had (I'll leave the debate for how much more it should have after this accomplishment alone, for right now and request responders do the same here, since this is targeted player 'help'.)

In short, we have somewhat incompatible goals to go with our somewhat constrained resources. And it is absolutely certain that not everyone is going to think any of the matched statements above should be or even are reasonable goals. I offer them only after having watched various stated goals be implemented and experiencing the path many times as what they likely are rather than what any of us might wish they could be.

Somewhere, someone suggested that perhaps the first 20 levels should be 'free' to attract new players and give them time to acclimate and explore the lands (with props to the suggestion creator -- I'm just being lazy this Fine Day). Perhaps the combination of

1) New account;
2) New character on account (times however many - what do we care if there are 50 characters below 20th level?);
3) Until level 20 (or debate this, I only offer it as a starting point for the discussion), and;
4) And then give the player a choice to continue to advance with the account being billed (and all below 20 characters remain free).

There are challenges still to be overcome even with this scenario - but for the purely new player (and capturing the purely new player attention via marketing and induction) there are distinct advantages. Does it help me create that warrior I've been putting off creating? Not in the least. But then, I'm not the 'player that needs help' in this context.

Peace to all, and a wondrous Holiday of happiness and cheer.

Doug

You may have noticed I'm a big fan of designing the game to encourage players to experience whatever it is we wish them to experience. So, to piggy-back off of Throgg's idea and to steal from something that is commonplace in WoW, where I also have a good number of hours logged...

If you want players to go explore the kobold village, then how about sending them there on a "quest" or "bounty" with objectives that ensure that they experience whatever it is you wish them to experience?

Apply the same logic to all design so that we incorporate lore and mechanics, rather than viewing them as separate and competing elements of the game. This is something I find very frustrating about GS players and GMs. And please forgive me if you've heard me drone on before about "RP and G", but it's important to me! You want people to participate in a certain way? Don't begrudge them their own motivations. You can't force it. If people play for experience and levels, beating them over the head with signs that tell them to SLOW DOWN! won't change a thing. But giving them incentives that are meaningful to them and also cause them to experience the game the way it was intended to be experienced represents the holy grail, in my opinion.

~Taverkin

<I think he'll settle back into the town healer scene in another half dozen levels. He should be close enough to capped to hunt with just about anyone by then and he'll just hunt in groups. <That was always the fun part of Gemstone II and III anyway. :)

As I see it, if we provide the mechanical support for grouping we should see more players actively seeking partners for mutual gain. The problem from my perspective is that there is so little support for such activities in this game. And it's a bit ironic, given that this game prides itself on the social aspects. But as I said before, I think some players and even GMs have a tendency to look at the social (RP) and game mechanics (G) aspects as separate entities at odds with one another. Yet a player like yourself who clearly expresses some frustration with solitary hunting and obviously wants to socialize, finds himself unable to find willing partners.

I think we need to make more of an effort to move away from that. Mechanics like the bounty system were a BIG step in the right direction. For example, grouping up for bandit tasks especially, but also the various creature tasks that can be shared. Bandits are the best example because they provide the best group incentives due to faster spawn rates in groups as well as ambush/trap mechanics that wreak havoc on solo hunters. And the rewards for completing AG tasks draw most players in. It's a perfect example of game mechanics driving social interaction.

Think about who your friends are in this game. Do they also tend to be your hunting partners? Design incentives that players find rewarding to draw them in. Design mechanics which favor groups. And players will participate. We can't afford to continue a policy of complaining that people don't want to socialize when we refuse to take the necessary steps to encourage the social aspects of this game by design. It's not that players are anti-social. It's that we've designed a game that essentially places socializing at odds with mechanical goals. Fix that and we can change everything.

~Taverkin