I will start off by saying that it is my contention that the Gift of Lumnis or XXX bonus is not currently doing what it was originally set up to do. Lumnis was supposed to be a way for less frequent players to advance at a reasonable rate. Instead it has become the time when regular players power hunt a character for 6 hours each week. Role playing, friendships, activities we might otherwise find enjoyable are sacrificed to the almighty Goddess of Time Sucking Lumnis. She has become for time what Lorminstra is for gems. It's sad and it needs to stop.
What is the solution? One that World of Warcraft has shown us quite clearly, Rested Experience. Allow Lumnis' gift to accrue based off the time (in or out of game) that a character spends not gaining experience, up to a cap. Characters who are hunting regularly will never receive Lumnis' gift and they shouldn't. It's a catch up mechanism, not a cap faster perk. Lumnis should only start rewarding you for resting your mind after a full 24 hours of zero experience gain. Some allowance might be made for small exp sources like throwing away trash and flat RPAs should not effect it at all.
That's great Keith but aren't these people just going to power hunt to make the best use of their Lumnis bonus once they have it? No they won't and here's why. Instead of accruing a Lumnis TIME they will accrue a Lumnis AMOUNT. That is to say that Lumnis won't triple or double experience gains for a set amount of time. Instead it will do so for a set amount of experience. Remain "rested" for 7 full days? Your capped Lumnis will now triple the next X,000 experience you earn. If you earn half of that amount and then go inactive again Lumnis will start to accrue again up to the cap. So you never feel compelled to go out power hunting to make the best use of this bonus.
TLDR: Lumnis only for those who don't earn exp for an extended period and instead of it lasting a set time it should last a set amount of experience.
Now if you'll all excuse me I'm going to be in a bomb shelter.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
KITHUS
DOUG
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/13/2014 06:47 PM CST
I'll +1 this without reservation.
Got room in that shelter?
Doug
Got room in that shelter?
Doug
RATHBONER
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 05:43 AM CST
I'd much prefer experience to time, but an accumulating on zero gain could cause exactly the same sort of problems its aimed at fixing.
People will be unwilling to do the sorts of in town interactions (e.g. guild partnering, healing, raising, picking) that they are willing to do outside Lumnis because it would hurt their Lumnis accumulation. It might make a mage (no exp for spell ups) more interactive but it would shut down healers, clerics and smiths and guild partners would remain stuffed by Lumnis.
I am not saying that it has to make TSC empaths less willing to heal than the present system does, but if the detailed implementation wasn't carefully designed to prevent it, thats what would happen.
People will be unwilling to do the sorts of in town interactions (e.g. guild partnering, healing, raising, picking) that they are willing to do outside Lumnis because it would hurt their Lumnis accumulation. It might make a mage (no exp for spell ups) more interactive but it would shut down healers, clerics and smiths and guild partners would remain stuffed by Lumnis.
I am not saying that it has to make TSC empaths less willing to heal than the present system does, but if the detailed implementation wasn't carefully designed to prevent it, thats what would happen.
DAID
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 06:11 AM CST
I wouldn't overly disagree with many of the assertions here.
But there is another unintended consequence which is perhaps a good one. It usually gets me playing one or both of my characters each week. Lately I've not been really even doing gifts on my main because I'm presently too busy in real life, and when I do play him I'd usually rather do alchemy or other mundane things than power hunt (warcamps are kind of boring, and I like to stick around RR as well).
But if not for Gift I might log in even less than I already do. However, when on gift, when I'm resting I hang out in public and am at the keyboard at least half the time. I hunted with at least two partners on my last gift, one of whom I never hunted with before.
So it does entice more casual players to play a certain amount of time per week. And with the dwindling population as it is, this isn't really a bad thing. Even if people are solo-powerhunting, they still might die or get dinged up and need the help of a cleric or empath. Or come chill in a common area and exchange spells, pick up boxes for others to pick, etc.
I don't know to what extent this was part of the intent of the system, but a built-in effect to the game that encourages people to log in at least several hours per week is definitely not a bad thing in my opinion.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
But there is another unintended consequence which is perhaps a good one. It usually gets me playing one or both of my characters each week. Lately I've not been really even doing gifts on my main because I'm presently too busy in real life, and when I do play him I'd usually rather do alchemy or other mundane things than power hunt (warcamps are kind of boring, and I like to stick around RR as well).
But if not for Gift I might log in even less than I already do. However, when on gift, when I'm resting I hang out in public and am at the keyboard at least half the time. I hunted with at least two partners on my last gift, one of whom I never hunted with before.
So it does entice more casual players to play a certain amount of time per week. And with the dwindling population as it is, this isn't really a bad thing. Even if people are solo-powerhunting, they still might die or get dinged up and need the help of a cleric or empath. Or come chill in a common area and exchange spells, pick up boxes for others to pick, etc.
I don't know to what extent this was part of the intent of the system, but a built-in effect to the game that encourages people to log in at least several hours per week is definitely not a bad thing in my opinion.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
RORN
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 06:54 AM CST
Messing up an item from the positive side of the game features chart might not go over well with the paying customers. The GMs should put their time into removing items from the negative side of the game features chart.
GMs, make finding and connecting with a locksmith easier, make getting the DS spells people can't cast themselves available somewhere at a modest cost (unlike what was done with NPC locksmiths).
Try something that might prove effective at helping players have fun playing. Have Player Locksmiths, Healers, and people willing to cast DS spells be able to be formally 'on duty' in TSC, per a deal with the city leaders to provide services for people. The 'on duty' people get a guaranteed minimum experience gain even if they are just sitting waiting for someone who wants their services. Perhaps 1/2 of whatever they would be learning every mana pulse if their minds were at just 'fresh and clear'.
You'd need characters who had enough levels to do the job, so say have this 'on duty' job be only available to level 30 and down spellcasters and healers. The locksmiths can be of any level up to cap?
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
GMs, make finding and connecting with a locksmith easier, make getting the DS spells people can't cast themselves available somewhere at a modest cost (unlike what was done with NPC locksmiths).
Try something that might prove effective at helping players have fun playing. Have Player Locksmiths, Healers, and people willing to cast DS spells be able to be formally 'on duty' in TSC, per a deal with the city leaders to provide services for people. The 'on duty' people get a guaranteed minimum experience gain even if they are just sitting waiting for someone who wants their services. Perhaps 1/2 of whatever they would be learning every mana pulse if their minds were at just 'fresh and clear'.
You'd need characters who had enough levels to do the job, so say have this 'on duty' job be only available to level 30 and down spellcasters and healers. The locksmiths can be of any level up to cap?
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
KITHUS
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 07:41 AM CST
| People will be unwilling to do the sorts of in town interactions (e.g. guild partnering, healing, raising, picking) that they are willing to do outside Lumnis because it would hurt their Lumnis accumulation. |
That is a fair point Rath but I still feel Lumnis should be aimed at people who aren't on as much as a "catch-up" mechanism. If they are on enough to worry about "messing up their Lumnis" it should be more beneficial to them to make use of that time. If they are better off purposely holding out for Lumnis accumulation then the Lumnis benefit is still too powerful.
| But there is another unintended consequence which is perhaps a good one. It usually gets me playing one or both of my characters each week. |
Accumulation, as I envision it, is per character. So if you let a character sit for a week they would end up with max Lumnis accumulated and ready to use. It would still be providing an incentive to play more than one character. I'm not sure if it should or not but the current one does and I don't know if we want to change that.
| GMs, make finding and connecting with a locksmith easier, make getting the DS spells people can't cast themselves available |
The updates to the SERVICE verb have been a wonderful step in this direction.
| Messing up an item from the positive side of the game features chart might not go over well with the paying customers. The GMs should put their time into removing items from the negative side of the game features chart. |
I do not consider Gift of Lumnis to be a positive feature right now. It was originally intended to allow more casual players to continue to advance at a decent rate. Instead it has turned into 6 hours a week per character that many players feel that they need to do nothing but power hunt in order to maximize the benefit. The feature's original target audience is getting less use out of it than other players who maximize it and further increase the divide between themselves and the casual players it was meant to assist. The current time limited design rewards EXP gain tunnel vision at the expense of interaction.
That said, and I'm probably nit picking here, I did not like the wording of your second sentence there. I do not want staff removing features from the game ever and I don't think you really do either. What we both want is features to be improved or new features added that address problems. Again, I'm just being nit-picky but that phrase really stood out to me. If you take a look through various folders on the forums, you will find I have been making quite a few suggestions for feature improvements and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Will most of them get used? Probably not but the more constructive feedback and ideas we can give staff the easier it is to improve the game in a direction consistent with the desires of the playerbase (within reason).
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
DAKARRA3
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 08:48 AM CST
What if the Larton took regular breaks like the guard? He could wander to Helga's and complain about needing to get away from his ex before he tries to kill her again.
What if the healers shop closed while she was out on a supply run?
I don't know how practical either of these suggestions are, but if the intent is to drive the player base to rely more on each other and less on automation, would things like this help drive create that?
As far as the gift of Lumnis, while I like the idea. I can't envision a how to implement it a way that would not be abused.
I do think perhaps that locksmithing with Larton should not be faster than using a player locksmith.
herbheal isn't really any faster than an on the ball empath and you have the benefit of never leaving the node while you absorb.
SHAYD11
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 11:08 AM CST
> Instead it has turned into 6 hours a week per character that many players feel that they need to do nothing but power hunt in order to maximize the benefit.
I personally dont agree with this. I mean sure there are the min max types who want to squeeze every last drop of exp they can in their time played but they would likely be doing this if Lumnis didnt exist. I think the majority of players realize big picture that you need a metric ton of exp to cap and making 30k instead of 23k isnt that big of a deal.
I personally dont agree with this. I mean sure there are the min max types who want to squeeze every last drop of exp they can in their time played but they would likely be doing this if Lumnis didnt exist. I think the majority of players realize big picture that you need a metric ton of exp to cap and making 30k instead of 23k isnt that big of a deal.
RORN
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 11:38 AM CST
>>Messing up an item from the positive side of the game features chart might not go over well with the paying customers. The >>GMs should put their time into removing items from the negative side of the game features chart.
>>Rorn
>That said, and I'm probably nit picking here, I did not like the wording of your second sentence there. I do not want staff >removing features from the game ever and I don't think you really do either. What we both want is features to be improved or >new features added that address problems.
>KITHUS
I'll agree with you on both points, that should have been worded more like:
>>Messing up an item from the positive side of the game features chart might not go over well with the paying customers. The >>GMs should put their time into MOVING items from the negative side of the game features chart to the positive side by making >>them not be hassles and problems for the paying customers.
The complaints on the costs of having boxes opened by Larton are common, grumbling about no healing in TSC is also pretty common, then there's the griping about the long wait on getting massies. All three could be dealt with by a system to get players with the appropriate skills to sit TSC, ready to perform them for people, without their losing experience gain due to a low number of players.
Back in the Gemstone 2 days and the Gemstone 3 days on GEnie Online Service before the great invasions from added links to AoL and other services, there were perhaps 70 players in game on an event night, normally half that, and we Healers worked shifts in TSC as a normal part of our play. Since the number of players during the day has dropped so much, a system to motivate players with the appropriate skills to sit TSC and provide them would be a good thing.
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
>>Rorn
>That said, and I'm probably nit picking here, I did not like the wording of your second sentence there. I do not want staff >removing features from the game ever and I don't think you really do either. What we both want is features to be improved or >new features added that address problems.
>KITHUS
I'll agree with you on both points, that should have been worded more like:
>>Messing up an item from the positive side of the game features chart might not go over well with the paying customers. The >>GMs should put their time into MOVING items from the negative side of the game features chart to the positive side by making >>them not be hassles and problems for the paying customers.
The complaints on the costs of having boxes opened by Larton are common, grumbling about no healing in TSC is also pretty common, then there's the griping about the long wait on getting massies. All three could be dealt with by a system to get players with the appropriate skills to sit TSC, ready to perform them for people, without their losing experience gain due to a low number of players.
Back in the Gemstone 2 days and the Gemstone 3 days on GEnie Online Service before the great invasions from added links to AoL and other services, there were perhaps 70 players in game on an event night, normally half that, and we Healers worked shifts in TSC as a normal part of our play. Since the number of players during the day has dropped so much, a system to motivate players with the appropriate skills to sit TSC and provide them would be a good thing.
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
RORN
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 11:58 AM CST
>What if the Larton took regular breaks like the guard? He could wander to Helga's and complain about needing to get away from >his ex before he tries to kill her again.
>What if the healers shop closed while she was out on a supply run?
>I don't know how practical either of these suggestions are, but if the intent is to drive the player base to rely more on each >other and less on automation, would things like this help drive create that?
I think this would be a bad thing, particularly the healing part. Leaving injured players without even the NPC healer to go to would force them to use herbs and go buy healing potions, which while they would fix the wounds, would be a major increase in the hassle of playing the game and might motivate some players to close their accounts. Wounds and scars can really restrict what you can do in game, my character, a Healer, often can't cast anything other than empath spells due to wounds and scars.
Having Larton not do boxes at times would just get boxes dumped at his shop or left out in the wilds. People are not going to want to store boxes in their limited locker space until a locksmith becomes available.
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
>What if the healers shop closed while she was out on a supply run?
>I don't know how practical either of these suggestions are, but if the intent is to drive the player base to rely more on each >other and less on automation, would things like this help drive create that?
I think this would be a bad thing, particularly the healing part. Leaving injured players without even the NPC healer to go to would force them to use herbs and go buy healing potions, which while they would fix the wounds, would be a major increase in the hassle of playing the game and might motivate some players to close their accounts. Wounds and scars can really restrict what you can do in game, my character, a Healer, often can't cast anything other than empath spells due to wounds and scars.
Having Larton not do boxes at times would just get boxes dumped at his shop or left out in the wilds. People are not going to want to store boxes in their limited locker space until a locksmith becomes available.
Tanivar Somakre
Retired 'vulture'
DAKARRA3
Re: Fixing Gift of Lumnis
11/14/2014 12:03 PM CST
>>Having Larton not do boxes at times would just get boxes dumped at his shop or left out in the wilds. People are not going to want to store boxes in their limited locker space until a locksmith becomes available.
I think the opposite is true, if Larton were not available all the time, folks might actually break the habit of going to him first before looking for that service from a player.
The same is true for the herbalist. If the herbalist is closed for restocking, you could always use the town healer instead. What I should have said is the herbalist.
I think the opposite is true, if Larton were not available all the time, folks might actually break the habit of going to him first before looking for that service from a player.
The same is true for the herbalist. If the herbalist is closed for restocking, you could always use the town healer instead. What I should have said is the herbalist.
