I'm curious to trying a sorcerer (last time I tried one was back in GSIII days).
I'm kind of curious as to what kind of paths most sorcerers do with their lore training. Right now the spells seem to work well and then have actual interesting boosts with necro or demon lores as to the odd slot-machine type bonuses that elemental lores give to wizard spells.
I see a lot of spells have boosts associated with necromancy and demonology lores. How do you sorcerers train in your lores?
Also, what do you guys do with elemental lores and why? (I could see fire lore being used to make 425 more useful)
-Drumpel
DRUMPEL
KARDIOS
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/06/2016 01:18 PM CDT
Most Sorcerers think necromancy lore provides greater benefits than demonology lore. My personal opinion is that the two Sorcerer lores are fairly balanced. At levels below 100, necromancy lore may provide more benefits, depending on your hunting style. Post-cap, demonology may provide more benefits, again depending on your hunting style. There is much room for debate. I suggest a balance between the two. But even if you decide to be a pure demonologist, get at least three ranks of necromancy lore. Those three ranks provide a big benefit in collecting necromantic energy for ensorcelling, perhaps the biggest benefit that any lore in the game provides for such a small investment.
Regarding elemental lores, the two big reasons for Sorcerers to train in those lores are 710 and 719. If you use 710 often, then you should try to pick up at least 5 (3 seconds of benefit) or 15 ranks (6 seconds of benefit) of elemental lore. I recommend putting the first 5 or 15 ranks all in your attuned lore, because 710 will generate that type of elemental damage more often. Longer term, elemental lores will help considerably with 719. Twelve ranks in a particular lore will increase by one the crit rank for the related elemental damage. More training improves your results further. If you someday get 50 ranks of each elemental lore, you'll find DC to be particularly deadly.
Sorcerer lores are more important than elemental lore, except possibly for the first 5 or 15 ranks of elemental lore if you use 710 frequently.
Finally, you asked about the elemental boost from 425. It will not be of much benefit to the average Sorcerer. Most Sorcerers will see it from time to time with 719 and on rare occasions with 710. The lore benefit to 425 is mainly of benefit to Wizards.
You didn't even ask about spiritual lores. Of the three spiritual lores, summoning is the most useful for Sorcerers. At the end of your Sorcerer career, you will want to be able to use web bolts with a high degree of success, which requires a lot of spiritual summoning lore. You can wait to train in it until later.
Regarding elemental lores, the two big reasons for Sorcerers to train in those lores are 710 and 719. If you use 710 often, then you should try to pick up at least 5 (3 seconds of benefit) or 15 ranks (6 seconds of benefit) of elemental lore. I recommend putting the first 5 or 15 ranks all in your attuned lore, because 710 will generate that type of elemental damage more often. Longer term, elemental lores will help considerably with 719. Twelve ranks in a particular lore will increase by one the crit rank for the related elemental damage. More training improves your results further. If you someday get 50 ranks of each elemental lore, you'll find DC to be particularly deadly.
Sorcerer lores are more important than elemental lore, except possibly for the first 5 or 15 ranks of elemental lore if you use 710 frequently.
Finally, you asked about the elemental boost from 425. It will not be of much benefit to the average Sorcerer. Most Sorcerers will see it from time to time with 719 and on rare occasions with 710. The lore benefit to 425 is mainly of benefit to Wizards.
You didn't even ask about spiritual lores. Of the three spiritual lores, summoning is the most useful for Sorcerers. At the end of your Sorcerer career, you will want to be able to use web bolts with a high degree of success, which requires a lot of spiritual summoning lore. You can wait to train in it until later.
DRUMPEL
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/06/2016 02:57 PM CDT
>KARDIOS's post
Thanks for the info.
I don't think I'll ever make it to cap, but at least I have a better idea on what lores to work on.
-Drumpel
Thanks for the info.
I don't think I'll ever make it to cap, but at least I have a better idea on what lores to work on.
-Drumpel
OM1E5GA
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/06/2016 07:30 PM CDT
It really depends on how you use your spells. Necro Lore used to be quite a bit better then Demon Lore, but fairly recent changes have evened them up quite a bit.
Pre cap, most sorcerers will prolly want to .5-1x in Necro for the benefits to 711 (depending on how well they can ward their foes reliably). 5 0r 15 ranks in an Elemental Lore by the early 20s would be useful for 710 since I found myself using it frequently to conserve mana until I was in my 50's. Demon lore can be picked up as TPs allow until near cap unless you're a smaller race (or hoarder) that will use Phase a lot or intend on using Balefire a lot.
Those sorcerers with wizard envy that will primarily bolt would face a more difficult decision pre cap since 705, 713, and 111 all use a different lore for their benefits. Not over-training in the Sorcerer circle would make getting 1x in all three lores easier, but at the expense of a lower CS for half of our disabling spells (703, 706, 708)... and one thing that I've learned about playing a sorcerer is that a diverse arsenal is a must.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Pre cap, most sorcerers will prolly want to .5-1x in Necro for the benefits to 711 (depending on how well they can ward their foes reliably). 5 0r 15 ranks in an Elemental Lore by the early 20s would be useful for 710 since I found myself using it frequently to conserve mana until I was in my 50's. Demon lore can be picked up as TPs allow until near cap unless you're a smaller race (or hoarder) that will use Phase a lot or intend on using Balefire a lot.
Those sorcerers with wizard envy that will primarily bolt would face a more difficult decision pre cap since 705, 713, and 111 all use a different lore for their benefits. Not over-training in the Sorcerer circle would make getting 1x in all three lores easier, but at the expense of a lower CS for half of our disabling spells (703, 706, 708)... and one thing that I've learned about playing a sorcerer is that a diverse arsenal is a must.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DAID
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/06/2016 10:56 PM CDT
Recently at cap, here is my training:
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 5 1
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 152 52
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 120 30
I had 10 in Water Lore, 63 in Demonology, and was working my way to 36 in Necromancy for the extra kill-count on 735. But I used my saved FIXSKILL right before the ELR freebie to tune to a high-CS build because the Confluence TDs were very inflated for a few months, and with my existing FIXSKILL which will expire later this month, I shall consider what to go back in to. Below is my rationale for this type of build.
Firstly, my sorcerer is "more" of a demonologist, RP-wise. As a halfling, I make extensive use of Phase; I think as far as a 'regular basis' use of Phase I'm possibly the biggest Phase junkie in the game. I have a pin-worn jacket (locked with a skull ring, up to 40+ pounds but much unused space), a 22-lbs capacity belt (it's a hidden pocket, so that 'locks' it), then an identical key for a belt-worn satchel (creature-found type, 20 pound capacity), a belt-worn purse (picked up in a player shop for the noun, cheap, 25 pound capacity), and a thigh-worn kit (was "a slim vaalorn kit"). This is what I phase before any hunt!
Demonology is also great for the "gold ring" version of 740, a bit on Balefire, ease of 725, and some other junk, but I train it mainly for 704 and 740.
I came up to a decent level before Ensorcell was about. You want at least the 1 rank to unlock 701 blood back, even if for fun. It's amazing for harvesting necromantic power on 735, of course. The real clutch here is for 711 in my opinion, which became a standard tactic for me around level 70, where you want no less than 0.3x per level for the RT unlocks.
I think Demonology is better at lower levels, and Necromancy becomes increasingly more powerful at higher levels. Although there were changes with HSN (e.g. Necromancy @20 to unlock 705 bolt), I suspect this basic logic still holds today.
Summoning Lore is mostly for web bolt as I really like it, but it's also good for 130, and I'd like to get it to 30 ranks for 116. I had it at 40 ranks for 106 for fun on a time, though this is mostly RP and other tricks with Wracking near people. I think with the option of 705 bolt with other lore training, the web bolt actually becomes more appealing if you're the kind of person that likes to use bolts from time to time.
Water Lore is really good if you're into popping boxes (check out my guide on gswiki). Even a single rank will go a decent way to helping you do this, once you have a bit of mana. But, I will say I was happy with even up to 10 ranks for that purpose. Sorcerers are the best poppers in the game, and unless you have a great locksmithing friend, it's just a standard skill, and I think 1 Water Lore is a 'core' sorcerer skill once 416 is learned.
This is simply an explanation of why I have trained as I have, and these can be quite different for others I am sure.
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 5 1
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 152 52
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 120 30
I had 10 in Water Lore, 63 in Demonology, and was working my way to 36 in Necromancy for the extra kill-count on 735. But I used my saved FIXSKILL right before the ELR freebie to tune to a high-CS build because the Confluence TDs were very inflated for a few months, and with my existing FIXSKILL which will expire later this month, I shall consider what to go back in to. Below is my rationale for this type of build.
Firstly, my sorcerer is "more" of a demonologist, RP-wise. As a halfling, I make extensive use of Phase; I think as far as a 'regular basis' use of Phase I'm possibly the biggest Phase junkie in the game. I have a pin-worn jacket (locked with a skull ring, up to 40+ pounds but much unused space), a 22-lbs capacity belt (it's a hidden pocket, so that 'locks' it), then an identical key for a belt-worn satchel (creature-found type, 20 pound capacity), a belt-worn purse (picked up in a player shop for the noun, cheap, 25 pound capacity), and a thigh-worn kit (was "a slim vaalorn kit"). This is what I phase before any hunt!
Demonology is also great for the "gold ring" version of 740, a bit on Balefire, ease of 725, and some other junk, but I train it mainly for 704 and 740.
I came up to a decent level before Ensorcell was about. You want at least the 1 rank to unlock 701 blood back, even if for fun. It's amazing for harvesting necromantic power on 735, of course. The real clutch here is for 711 in my opinion, which became a standard tactic for me around level 70, where you want no less than 0.3x per level for the RT unlocks.
I think Demonology is better at lower levels, and Necromancy becomes increasingly more powerful at higher levels. Although there were changes with HSN (e.g. Necromancy @20 to unlock 705 bolt), I suspect this basic logic still holds today.
Summoning Lore is mostly for web bolt as I really like it, but it's also good for 130, and I'd like to get it to 30 ranks for 116. I had it at 40 ranks for 106 for fun on a time, though this is mostly RP and other tricks with Wracking near people. I think with the option of 705 bolt with other lore training, the web bolt actually becomes more appealing if you're the kind of person that likes to use bolts from time to time.
Water Lore is really good if you're into popping boxes (check out my guide on gswiki). Even a single rank will go a decent way to helping you do this, once you have a bit of mana. But, I will say I was happy with even up to 10 ranks for that purpose. Sorcerers are the best poppers in the game, and unless you have a great locksmithing friend, it's just a standard skill, and I think 1 Water Lore is a 'core' sorcerer skill once 416 is learned.
This is simply an explanation of why I have trained as I have, and these can be quite different for others I am sure.
OM1E5GA
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/07/2016 03:34 PM CDT
<Water Lore is really good if you're into popping boxes (check out my guide on gswiki). Even a single rank will go a decent way to helping you do this, once you have a bit of mana. But, I will say I was happy with even up to 10 ranks for that purpose. Sorcerers are the best poppers in the game, and unless you have a great locksmithing friend, it's just a standard skill, and I think 1 Water Lore is a 'core' sorcerer skill once 416 is learned.>
I've killed myself enough times attempting to magically disarm traps (prolly cause boxes from the Citadel and Minotaurs are both on the difficult side for their level) that I don't bother disarming them any more and just use 125 on trapped boxes... so I hadn't really looked too closely at the water lore benefits for popping. Looks useful to have for someone that pops their own boxes a lot, esp the 416 benefit, but it's prolly more of a post-cap goal for most folk.
Would def be invaluable for a sorcerer that trained to manually disarm/pick boxes though (I've known a few over the years).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I've killed myself enough times attempting to magically disarm traps (prolly cause boxes from the Citadel and Minotaurs are both on the difficult side for their level) that I don't bother disarming them any more and just use 125 on trapped boxes... so I hadn't really looked too closely at the water lore benefits for popping. Looks useful to have for someone that pops their own boxes a lot, esp the 416 benefit, but it's prolly more of a post-cap goal for most folk.
Would def be invaluable for a sorcerer that trained to manually disarm/pick boxes though (I've known a few over the years).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DAID
Re: Sorcerers and lores
05/09/2016 03:21 PM CDT
Well, the water lore is good for progressively popping the box (407); it's nice to know the threshold for popping the box is decreasing as you sink more and more mana into it. The 416 benefit isn't that great because you have to have 404/403 active all the time, and still the messaging isn't very useful even then.
I don't blow up all traps with 125, but probably quite a lot of them.
I don't blow up all traps with 125, but probably quite a lot of them.
