Decided to try out a sorc for the first time. Not exactly sure what to be doing with lores and whatnot. I've read through a bunch of these posts and through something together.
Skills at level 7 but points applied for level 8.
Sindorn (at level 7), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 45 9
Arcane Symbols.....................| 45 9
Magic Item Use.....................| 45 9
Spell Aiming.......................| 82 18
Harness Power......................| 40 8
Elemental Mana Control.............| 45 9
Spirit Mana Control................| 45 9
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 15 3
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 50 10
Perception.........................| 45 9
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 6
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 9
Planning roughly 1.5x lores, went to 10 in necro for Sacrifice changes. May keep it 1.5 just in necro until 20 for 705 bolt. Haven't seen it used but figured it's our cheapest bolt option and as I'm spell aiming, it made sense.
Also, any advice for stats would be fabulous. Sylvan. I have no delusions of getting to cap, this is a F2P character, something maximized for 40-50 range would be great though. Stats are currently "whacky" as I was using a bow to play around with within the first 30 days.
TGLEW2
INIQUITY
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 05:48 AM CDT
You might want to overtrain in Harness Power for the lower levels.
I want to say I let it drop down to 1x in my 20s.
- Xorus' player
I want to say I let it drop down to 1x in my 20s.
- Xorus' player
SILVEAN
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 07:45 AM CDT
Looks good to me. I think 1.5x in lore is a bit much. It's an expensive skill to train and gaining some extra spell ranks might be more beneficial than lore along the way. You're right to look for lore milestones to train for. Thirty necromancy ranks provides some benefits to the Sacrifice ability, for instance.
You have some leeway with stats if you're not setting them for cap. The guidelines in the beginner's guide on the wiki make sense to me.
Silvean's Player
You have some leeway with stats if you're not setting them for cap. The guidelines in the beginner's guide on the wiki make sense to me.
Silvean's Player
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 10:49 AM CDT
>You might want to overtrain in Harness Power for the lower levels.
This is solid advice, but not strictly necessary. I will note the present 8 ranks at level 7 means the 8th rank only netted one mana. Do exactly the ranks equal to your level, or crank some more points to get 10 to 20 extra mana.
Otherwise this looks like a very canonical build which can't go wrong and has a lot of versatility.
I agree with Silvean that 1.5x lores is pretty pricey. Especially in the lower level range, I really liked doing about 2.5x spells to get to 430 and 120 ASAP while keeping 700s near or at level. You definitely want 425 at level 25 (and so might as well have 430 at 30), but you may want 107 before the mid-30s, as some examples.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
This is solid advice, but not strictly necessary. I will note the present 8 ranks at level 7 means the 8th rank only netted one mana. Do exactly the ranks equal to your level, or crank some more points to get 10 to 20 extra mana.
Otherwise this looks like a very canonical build which can't go wrong and has a lot of versatility.
I agree with Silvean that 1.5x lores is pretty pricey. Especially in the lower level range, I really liked doing about 2.5x spells to get to 430 and 120 ASAP while keeping 700s near or at level. You definitely want 425 at level 25 (and so might as well have 430 at 30), but you may want 107 before the mid-30s, as some examples.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 11:04 AM CDT
>Also, any advice for stats would be fabulous. Sylvan. I have no delusions of getting to cap, this is a F2P character, something maximized for 40-50 range would be great though. Stats are currently "whacky" as I was using a bow to play around with within the first 30 days.
I'll take a stab!
I usually play around on here: http://www.nitefallz.com/
Something like this should be a good start for tweaking. It has a respectable value for cap, and a very playable value from level 0. The Strength might seem like a bit much, but keep in mind the growth is abominable (7) and nearly as bad as my halfling sorcerer (5), and I put his STR stat at like 95 or something; STR itself is not especially relevant for sorcerers, but when the growth rate is that bad for any stat I usually try to crank it up.
Now, you can get an idea yourself for how you want to play the character how to tweak this. If you're planning to cast bolts, you can try to grab a little more DEX. The CON is also slightly low, but again if you want viability at low levels and good TPs, you are well advised to keep the AUR and WIS high. You can definitely cut a little from AGL and STR is you prefer the CON or DEX. But considering Sylvans have a +0 CON bonus, I wouldn't go any lower on that one than what I have here.
All in all, I didn't want to tweak it too much since my first guess with a little prodding gave a very favorable result, and anyway you'll surely want to adjust my final recommendation in any case.
How do the other sorcerers feel about a stat build basically like the above?
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I'll take a stab!
I usually play around on here: http://www.nitefallz.com/
Something like this should be a good start for tweaking. It has a respectable value for cap, and a very playable value from level 0. The Strength might seem like a bit much, but keep in mind the growth is abominable (7) and nearly as bad as my halfling sorcerer (5), and I put his STR stat at like 95 or something; STR itself is not especially relevant for sorcerers, but when the growth rate is that bad for any stat I usually try to crank it up.
| STAT | INIT | CAP |
| CON | 59 | 80 |
| DEX | 45 | 90 |
| DIS | 73 | 100 |
| LOG | 62 | 100 |
| INT | 52 | 87 |
| STR | 90 | 99 |
| AGL | 67 | 96 |
| INF | 41 | 86 |
| WIS | 88 | 100 |
| AUR | 83 | 100 |
Now, you can get an idea yourself for how you want to play the character how to tweak this. If you're planning to cast bolts, you can try to grab a little more DEX. The CON is also slightly low, but again if you want viability at low levels and good TPs, you are well advised to keep the AUR and WIS high. You can definitely cut a little from AGL and STR is you prefer the CON or DEX. But considering Sylvans have a +0 CON bonus, I wouldn't go any lower on that one than what I have here.
All in all, I didn't want to tweak it too much since my first guess with a little prodding gave a very favorable result, and anyway you'll surely want to adjust my final recommendation in any case.
How do the other sorcerers feel about a stat build basically like the above?
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 11:06 AM CDT
NB: The WIS and AUR values ought to be the ones after the +10 is applied. I believe the settings would be 78 and 73 for WIS and AUR, respectively, resulting in the practical level-0 values listed in my table.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 11:24 AM CDT
...and finally...!
If Malisai doesn't post soon (he usually frequents the forums, but I dunno if for every topic in Sorcery), shoot him an email via his play.net account: KOOLED
He's a capped sylvan sorcerer, and his insight to finalizing the stats would be invaluable. I don't expect there are any major problems with my above framework in the broad strokes, but owing to a +0 bonus to LOG as a sylvan, some people might like to see a higher value there early on for faster experience gain. DIS and LOG are presently set to the exact minimum where they still reach 100 at 100 (which I consider the most important stats for sorcerers behind AUR and WIS).
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
If Malisai doesn't post soon (he usually frequents the forums, but I dunno if for every topic in Sorcery), shoot him an email via his play.net account: KOOLED
He's a capped sylvan sorcerer, and his insight to finalizing the stats would be invaluable. I don't expect there are any major problems with my above framework in the broad strokes, but owing to a +0 bonus to LOG as a sylvan, some people might like to see a higher value there early on for faster experience gain. DIS and LOG are presently set to the exact minimum where they still reach 100 at 100 (which I consider the most important stats for sorcerers behind AUR and WIS).
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
TGLEW2
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 03:23 PM CDT
Thanks all for the advice. The only reason I had 8 HP ranks was because I constantly adjust my skill goals as I get the TPs and I was just about to level (HP is always my last addition). I thought about doubling HP but wasn't sure if that'd be worth it in lieu of spells. I may just have to try them both.
I was curious about the 1.5x lores. Right now the trade off is only about 2 spell ranks but I suppose as I get higher that will translate to more spells. I may stick to my 10 ranks (for sacrifice) and let it fall off
Thanks again for the stat suggestion. I'll go ahead and plug it in and take it for a whirl. I have heard the F2P experience penalty is quite the bear after 10 so we'll see if I'll have the patience to take him high or if I'll just get tired of it and tap out.
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 05:05 PM CDT
>Thanks again for the stat suggestion. I'll go ahead and plug it in and take it for a whirl. I have heard the F2P experience penalty is quite the bear after 10 so we'll see if I'll have the patience to take him high or if I'll just get tired of it and tap out.
I might have missed that this is an F2P sorcerer. In that case I'd think setting a much higher LOG is an absolute must. You can take it from any of the physical skills (CON, DEX, AGL, STR) or INF. STR is probably the place to start, then AGL/INF.
Also, if you have unlimited fixskills still, you can use my "cheatyface" methods to spell yourself up like a champion: https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Cheatyface_30_days#Skills
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I might have missed that this is an F2P sorcerer. In that case I'd think setting a much higher LOG is an absolute must. You can take it from any of the physical skills (CON, DEX, AGL, STR) or INF. STR is probably the place to start, then AGL/INF.
Also, if you have unlimited fixskills still, you can use my "cheatyface" methods to spell yourself up like a champion: https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Cheatyface_30_days#Skills
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
TGLEW2
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 06:10 PM CDT
Adjusted some things to bump the Logic.
Went with:
REASSIGN STATS
80 Strength (STR) 83 Aura (AUR)
59 Constitution (CON) 86 Logic (LOG)
45 Dexterity (DEX) 52 Intuition (INT)
57 Agility (AGI) 88 Wisdom (WIS)
69 Discipline (DIS) 41 Influence (INF)
Have 3 more stat assigns in the next 6 days...may tweak again if needed.
Went with:
REASSIGN STATS
80 Strength (STR) 83 Aura (AUR)
59 Constitution (CON) 86 Logic (LOG)
45 Dexterity (DEX) 52 Intuition (INT)
57 Agility (AGI) 88 Wisdom (WIS)
69 Discipline (DIS) 41 Influence (INF)
Have 3 more stat assigns in the next 6 days...may tweak again if needed.
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 06:47 PM CDT
>Adjusted some things to bump the Logic.
Looks pretty solid.
Cutting DIS, even if minor, is somewhat counter-intuitive, since it factors into the size of the experience pool (and hits both PTP and MTP). That's another place I'd think a little boost above the number I originally posted could be justified. I'm not sure what you'd cut though.
Anyway, it definitely looks respectable from my end.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Looks pretty solid.
Cutting DIS, even if minor, is somewhat counter-intuitive, since it factors into the size of the experience pool (and hits both PTP and MTP). That's another place I'd think a little boost above the number I originally posted could be justified. I'm not sure what you'd cut though.
Anyway, it definitely looks respectable from my end.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
OM1E5GA
Re: New to Sorcs
08/18/2015 09:45 PM CDT
I don't have anything on training/stats to add to what's already been said.... but I am a bit surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet:
There are no "sorcs" in Elanthia.... We have (or, apparently, had) to much dignity and integrity to be using such a base term for ourselves.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
There are no "sorcs" in Elanthia.... We have (or, apparently, had) to much dignity and integrity to be using such a base term for ourselves.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
UBERWENCH
Re: New to Sorcs
08/19/2015 12:27 AM CDT
>There are no "sorcs" in Elanthia.... We have (or, apparently, had) to much dignity and integrity to be using such a base term for ourselves.
I used to fight the good fight on that, but I've since let it go, just as I have the use of "impact" as a verb and the distinction between "fewer" and "less." Pretty sure it's a side effect of having less time (or fewer minutes!) to post in general.
You'll never catch a "sorc" from me, though.
--- Lauren, Lylia's player
I used to fight the good fight on that, but I've since let it go, just as I have the use of "impact" as a verb and the distinction between "fewer" and "less." Pretty sure it's a side effect of having less time (or fewer minutes!) to post in general.
You'll never catch a "sorc" from me, though.
--- Lauren, Lylia's player
INIQUITY
Re: New to Sorcs
08/20/2015 04:11 AM CDT
<<I used to fight the good fight on that, but I've since let it go, just as I have the use of "impact" as a verb and the distinction between "fewer" and "less.">>
I interpret this as permission to start mixing up "mendacity" and "veracity."
... and reignite the "sorcerer" vs. "sorceror" argument.
- Xorus' player
>A monastic lich points a skeletal finger at you and exclaims, "Your soul is forfeit!"
I interpret this as permission to start mixing up "mendacity" and "veracity."
... and reignite the "sorcerer" vs. "sorceror" argument.
- Xorus' player
>A monastic lich points a skeletal finger at you and exclaims, "Your soul is forfeit!"
UBERWENCH
Re: New to Sorcs
08/20/2015 04:17 AM CDT
I always liked the look of "sorceror" -- kind of echoes "emperor," I think! -- but even Google says, "Did you mean 'sorcerer?'" Note, though, that it does not ask if you mean "sorc."
I'll totally call you out if you mix up "mendacity" and "veracity," too.
--- Lauren, Lylia's player
I'll totally call you out if you mix up "mendacity" and "veracity," too.
--- Lauren, Lylia's player
TGLEW2
Re: New to Sorcs
08/20/2015 04:46 AM CDT
Chalk it up to laziness on the forums and not seeing the need to RP on the forums :D I would never.
Thanks again for all the advice. May uptweak dis, think it got lowered because something had to drop below 70 for logic to increase above it.
Thanks again for all the advice. May uptweak dis, think it got lowered because something had to drop below 70 for logic to increase above it.
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/20/2015 12:59 PM CDT
>May uptweak dis, think it got lowered because something had to drop below 70 for logic to increase above it.
Ah, you're right then! I think you're better with DIS at 69 than tanking STR to 69 most likely.
In that case, I think you'll find this build quite ideal (again, maybe poking some numbers into place). My original build was a very mild build kind of for anyone. Since it's F2P, and no serious plan to cap, no one would criticize the personal choice to boost the Logic I don't think.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Ah, you're right then! I think you're better with DIS at 69 than tanking STR to 69 most likely.
In that case, I think you'll find this build quite ideal (again, maybe poking some numbers into place). My original build was a very mild build kind of for anyone. Since it's F2P, and no serious plan to cap, no one would criticize the personal choice to boost the Logic I don't think.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
THROGG
Re: New to Sorcs
08/21/2015 07:48 PM CDT
Google's bias is meaningless to me; I have always preferred the "sorceror" variant.
Impact IS a verb; English is a living language, which means that word forms can change. This fact will impact on how we view the process.
I have been a grammar Nazi about the "fewer vs less" distinction in the past. However, in view of my above statement, I realize that I will eventually have to accept the fact that current English usage is trending toward blurring the difference between the two. That time has not yet arrived, however, so I will continue, for the nonce, to scold those who make this error.
How the hell do you mix up mendacity and veracity?? Only in Orwellian doublespeak could this happen.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Impact IS a verb; English is a living language, which means that word forms can change. This fact will impact on how we view the process.
I have been a grammar Nazi about the "fewer vs less" distinction in the past. However, in view of my above statement, I realize that I will eventually have to accept the fact that current English usage is trending toward blurring the difference between the two. That time has not yet arrived, however, so I will continue, for the nonce, to scold those who make this error.
How the hell do you mix up mendacity and veracity?? Only in Orwellian doublespeak could this happen.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
SILVEAN
Re: New to Sorcs
08/21/2015 11:06 PM CDT
The -or versus -er distinction is particularly interesting with advisor versus adviser. My favorite suffix is -trix but we don't, however, talk about a sorcertrix.
INIQUITY
Re: New to Sorcs
08/22/2015 01:26 AM CDT
<<How the hell do you mix up mendacity and veracity?? Only in Orwellian doublespeak could this happen.>> THROGG
It happened often enough here 15 years ago to stand out in my memory. These boards were a lot more active back then, especially with the people who would get those backwards. There were some really weirdly specific forum categories. "Sorcerer vs. Sorceror" was apparently argued about often enough to warrant having its own folder.
<<I always liked the look of "sorceror" -- kind of echoes "emperor," I think!>> Lylia
There is only one place the -or spelling shows up, as far as I know, the sinister inscription with "Lord High Sorceror" on the crypt. (It works for me as a title, the lower case feels wrong.) In most cases something like this is arbitrary. I'm not convinced that is true with this issue. With the graveyard it is really dangerous to assume minor details are meaningless. There are a few things I have found over the years that might be intentional with this title, other than the immediate connotation of symbolic annihilation:
(1) The high priest of the [Lorminstran] temple is titled the "Lord High Cleric", so there is a dark mirror of blasphemy in it along the same lines as the Phantom Gatekeeper.
(2) Kestrel was only ruling a fiefdom of some other conqueror. It was almost certainly a warlord named Lorgalis, who had a servant called the "Lord High Executioner."
(3) The "Sorceror" spelling pops up in the Rolemaster books, in a conversion chart between systems. The "Necromancer" profession maps to it.
The relevance of the third one is that "necromancy" spells belonged to Evil Clerics, not Sorcerers, but the Necromancer profession in the other system were hybrids. So, "Sorceror" is just mapping back to "Necromancer", which in this case goes back to the inverted theological meaning from (1). Lorgalis was also a former servant of Kadaena, most likely the star of Bandur's book on the subject.
- Xorus' player
It happened often enough here 15 years ago to stand out in my memory. These boards were a lot more active back then, especially with the people who would get those backwards. There were some really weirdly specific forum categories. "Sorcerer vs. Sorceror" was apparently argued about often enough to warrant having its own folder.
<<I always liked the look of "sorceror" -- kind of echoes "emperor," I think!>> Lylia
There is only one place the -or spelling shows up, as far as I know, the sinister inscription with "Lord High Sorceror" on the crypt. (It works for me as a title, the lower case feels wrong.) In most cases something like this is arbitrary. I'm not convinced that is true with this issue. With the graveyard it is really dangerous to assume minor details are meaningless. There are a few things I have found over the years that might be intentional with this title, other than the immediate connotation of symbolic annihilation:
(1) The high priest of the [Lorminstran] temple is titled the "Lord High Cleric", so there is a dark mirror of blasphemy in it along the same lines as the Phantom Gatekeeper.
(2) Kestrel was only ruling a fiefdom of some other conqueror. It was almost certainly a warlord named Lorgalis, who had a servant called the "Lord High Executioner."
(3) The "Sorceror" spelling pops up in the Rolemaster books, in a conversion chart between systems. The "Necromancer" profession maps to it.
The relevance of the third one is that "necromancy" spells belonged to Evil Clerics, not Sorcerers, but the Necromancer profession in the other system were hybrids. So, "Sorceror" is just mapping back to "Necromancer", which in this case goes back to the inverted theological meaning from (1). Lorgalis was also a former servant of Kadaena, most likely the star of Bandur's book on the subject.
- Xorus' player
INIQUITY
Re: New to Sorcs
08/22/2015 01:33 AM CDT
<<My favorite suffix is -trix but we don't, however, talk about a sorcertrix.>> SILVEAN
But we do "dominate", therefore...
But we do "dominate", therefore...
UBERWENCH
Re: New to Sorcs
08/22/2015 03:25 AM CDT
>My favorite suffix is -trix but we don't, however, talk about a sorcertrix.
Well, Lylia does wear a lot of leather.
Sounds a little like the most frightening breakfast cereal since Booberry (which, as long as we're talking about words and suffixes, looks badly in need of a hyphen).
Well, Lylia does wear a lot of leather.
Sounds a little like the most frightening breakfast cereal since Booberry (which, as long as we're talking about words and suffixes, looks badly in need of a hyphen).
SILVEAN
Re: New to Sorcs
08/22/2015 06:59 PM CDT
And don't forget Heloise, "carius mihi et dignius videretur tua dici meretrix quam illius imperatrix."
DOUG
FIREPHOENIX
Re: New to Sorcs
08/23/2015 02:11 AM CDT
I said cheers to you Sir and you did not respond in kind!
DAID
Re: New to Sorcs
08/23/2015 10:21 PM CDT
...guess we must have nailed the answers to all the mechanics questions...
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
