KEITHOBAD
CS vs TD margin?
03/01/2015 05:05 PM CST
Kinda curious what kind of success% sorcerers are dealing with these days. I've tried to roll one up a few times but I get so frustrated when 50% of my casts are misses. Does this improve dramatically as you level?
VANKRASN39
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/01/2015 05:09 PM CST
>Does this improve dramatically as you level?
yes, of course. You'll probably have better success bolting at lower levels and using wizard wands. get 80-90 mana rods imbedded with 701/702 as well.
THROGG
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/01/2015 11:11 PM CST
All CS casters have this problem in the beginning. At level 1, your CS may top the target's TD by only a few points, leading to many warded off casts. Combined with the small mana pool, it makes CS hunting hard. But each training, the warding margin increases by approximately the same amount (assuming you train properly in spells). Hence, by, say, level 60 (just an educated guess), you will autoward just about all your targets. And it gets better as you go on. At level 1, my cleric had a CS of something like 15; at cap it's 514. The only things she can't hit are invasion critters with ridiculous TDs, like vathors.
This is why low level caster types do indeed rely on wands a lot, or else they use weapons till 20ish, and then fixskill over to pure caster.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
This is why low level caster types do indeed rely on wands a lot, or else they use weapons till 20ish, and then fixskill over to pure caster.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
THROGG
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/01/2015 11:22 PM CST
Or, if you want to try being a pure sorcerous caster from the start, you can hunt roltons at level 1. Use bloodburst; you only have to hit it once. Twice if you're the impatient type. Then just follow it around till it dies from blood loss; animal type critters can't bandage themselves, so any bleeding wound is eventually fatal. A bit slow and boring, but it works.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
THROGG
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/01/2015 11:57 PM CST
Level 40 sorceress, so underhunting slightly, but the best example I could come up with on short notice.
>>sw
[Glatoph, Glacier]
This side of the mountain is covered with ice. The ice field is almost big enough to be called a glacier, except that the conditions are all wrong for a glacier. You suspect some sort of magic at work, and wonder at the wizard powerful enough to freeze half a mountain. You also see a frost giant.
Obvious paths: southwest
>
A frost giant thrusts with an ice spear at you!
AS: +244 vs DS: +319 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +11 = -37
A clean miss.
>incant 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
CS: +219 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +89 == +191
Warding failed!
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
A frost giant is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 40 points of damage!
Flames cook a frost giant's back. Looks about medium well.
The frost giant is stunned!
The frost giant howls in agony as the flames dance over his body!
... 40 points of damage!
Fire burns through neck and destroys carotid artery. Painfully bloody way to die.
The frost giant falls to the ground motionless.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The powerful look leaves a frost giant.
You feel 1 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.<<
Or perhaps something more demonic ... just remember to go offensive. Demonology lore helps.
>>
A frost giant swings a war hammer at you!
AS: +174 vs DS: +339 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +80 = -57
A clean miss.
R>incant 718
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Torment...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
CS: +219 - TD: +148 + CvA: +19 + d100: +85 == +175
Warding failed!
You glare malevolently at a frost giant.
You feel a dark force suddenly summoned between you and a frost giant.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
A frost giant mutters an incantation.
>
You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +219 - TD: +92 + CvA: +19 + d100: +22 == +168
Warding failed!
is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
She flinches in pain!
... 50 points of damage!
Beautiful shot pierces both lungs, the frost giant makes a wheezing noise, and drops dead!
The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
You feel the presence take the frost giant's life.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>>sw
[Glatoph, Glacier]
This side of the mountain is covered with ice. The ice field is almost big enough to be called a glacier, except that the conditions are all wrong for a glacier. You suspect some sort of magic at work, and wonder at the wizard powerful enough to freeze half a mountain. You also see a frost giant.
Obvious paths: southwest
>
A frost giant thrusts with an ice spear at you!
AS: +244 vs DS: +319 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +11 = -37
A clean miss.
>incant 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
CS: +219 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +89 == +191
Warding failed!
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
A frost giant is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 40 points of damage!
Flames cook a frost giant's back. Looks about medium well.
The frost giant is stunned!
The frost giant howls in agony as the flames dance over his body!
... 40 points of damage!
Fire burns through neck and destroys carotid artery. Painfully bloody way to die.
The frost giant falls to the ground motionless.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The powerful look leaves a frost giant.
You feel 1 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.<<
Or perhaps something more demonic ... just remember to go offensive. Demonology lore helps.
>>
A frost giant swings a war hammer at you!
AS: +174 vs DS: +339 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +80 = -57
A clean miss.
R>incant 718
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Torment...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
CS: +219 - TD: +148 + CvA: +19 + d100: +85 == +175
Warding failed!
You glare malevolently at a frost giant.
You feel a dark force suddenly summoned between you and a frost giant.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
A frost giant mutters an incantation.
>
You feel a dark force lash out at your opponent!
CS: +219 - TD: +92 + CvA: +19 + d100: +22 == +168
Warding failed!
is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
She flinches in pain!
... 50 points of damage!
Beautiful shot pierces both lungs, the frost giant makes a wheezing noise, and drops dead!
The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
You feel the presence take the frost giant's life.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
KEITHOBAD
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/02/2015 02:58 AM CST
Hmm, well that sounds waaaay better. Maybe I'll give it another shot and just try and burst through those early years with a swinging build or something.
DAID
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/02/2015 03:37 AM CST
I recall sea nymphs are pretty good in the early level ranges.
If you're a small race, gremlins are a great choice, too. At level 5, their sorcerous TD is only 10! They'll steal a bunch of stuff from you, but that uses their action rounds. I usually hunted them between levels 6 and 8 or so. But, if you're not a small race, the theft and hunting in general is quite bad because they can get away from you.
By the time your in the 20s, Maelstrom tends to work quite well, say against krolvin warfarers. The worst the warfs can do to you is give you RT with ewave, so just lie down and you don't get hit with RT.
Otherwise, I often hunted undead in the early levels. Fire phantoms, bone golems, werebears, darkwoodes, verari. They usually don't have many spells that matter defensively, and their TD is directly based on their level, and they can't heal at all. If you can use sign of wracking you'll have no problem doing this, even if you can't ward on every shot.
Quartz orbs are also very powerful early on. Finding 1711 scrolls isn't too challenging if you check pawnshop tables. Get a fresh one (check it with Phase) and get a more powerful sorcerer to unlock it and change it for you. One scroll with 20 charges doesn't weigh 100 pounds.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
If you're a small race, gremlins are a great choice, too. At level 5, their sorcerous TD is only 10! They'll steal a bunch of stuff from you, but that uses their action rounds. I usually hunted them between levels 6 and 8 or so. But, if you're not a small race, the theft and hunting in general is quite bad because they can get away from you.
By the time your in the 20s, Maelstrom tends to work quite well, say against krolvin warfarers. The worst the warfs can do to you is give you RT with ewave, so just lie down and you don't get hit with RT.
Otherwise, I often hunted undead in the early levels. Fire phantoms, bone golems, werebears, darkwoodes, verari. They usually don't have many spells that matter defensively, and their TD is directly based on their level, and they can't heal at all. If you can use sign of wracking you'll have no problem doing this, even if you can't ward on every shot.
Quartz orbs are also very powerful early on. Finding 1711 scrolls isn't too challenging if you check pawnshop tables. Get a fresh one (check it with Phase) and get a more powerful sorcerer to unlock it and change it for you. One scroll with 20 charges doesn't weigh 100 pounds.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
OM1E5GA
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/02/2015 04:20 AM CST
<By the time your in the 20s, Maelstrom tends to work quite well, say against krolvin warfarers. The worst the warfs can do to you is give you RT with ewave, so just lie down and you don't get hit with RT.>
Once I discovered they couldn't hit me laying down while in guarded this is exactly how I hunted them. Of course, that was before they were added to BCS. If their bolt AS is the same as it was then it should still work, but have noticed with other characters that they cast 111 a lot more often then they used to.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Once I discovered they couldn't hit me laying down while in guarded this is exactly how I hunted them. Of course, that was before they were added to BCS. If their bolt AS is the same as it was then it should still work, but have noticed with other characters that they cast 111 a lot more often then they used to.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DAID
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/02/2015 04:44 AM CST
<<By the time your in the 20s, Maelstrom tends to work quite well, say against krolvin warfarers. The worst the warfs can do to you is give you RT with ewave, so just lie down and you don't get hit with RT.>
<Once I discovered they couldn't hit me laying down while in guarded this is exactly how I hunted them. Of course, that was before they were added to BCS. If their bolt AS is the same as it was then it should still work, but have noticed with other characters that they cast 111 a lot more often then they used to.
Yes, this is your idea, not mine. Sorry for not crediting you! ^_^
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
<Once I discovered they couldn't hit me laying down while in guarded this is exactly how I hunted them. Of course, that was before they were added to BCS. If their bolt AS is the same as it was then it should still work, but have noticed with other characters that they cast 111 a lot more often then they used to.
Yes, this is your idea, not mine. Sorry for not crediting you! ^_^
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
JSELLS3
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/03/2015 06:12 PM CST
Was hunting wayfarers the other day and even laying down e-wave still put me in round time, so that trick doesn't work anymore. (Atleast in landing)
DAID
Re: CS vs TD margin?
03/03/2015 11:23 PM CST
>Was hunting wayfarers the other day and even laying down e-wave still put me in round time, so that trick doesn't work anymore. (Atleast in landing)
Good to know. Thanks!
I also failed to mention that for warfs I mean focused Maelstrom. You'd want 2x in spell aiming for that so, it's not 100% on the CS/TD discussion, but should be fair game since there was also the recommendation of wizard wands. I like the idea of 702 ranger rods more (if you have FWI access, just ask me via crystal amulet global or lnet and I'll get you a bag of them).
As to 702 itself, consider being in stance offensive, both hands open, and using channel incant. At lower levels and including Airwall, you should have zero issues at all. This was how Kaldonis originally hunted, including brawling skill. Runestaff flares are okay, but probably the other parts of 702 will be better for your lower warding margin and generally weak creatures at this stage.
Also don't forget sacrifice. You'll know after hunting a creature for a day about how many shots of 702 they usually take. Either after they have taken the normal number, or one before, if they are stunned, sacrifice them up. Free kill, a nice zest, a little RT, and some free mana.
Incidentally, I always found 706 stun gave more freedom for the margin of error than a stun by other means like 702. I never tested it but, just curious if this personal experience might be worth actually testing to confirm. Even with Wracking this isn't a bad option at all, especially earlier in the hunt.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
Good to know. Thanks!
I also failed to mention that for warfs I mean focused Maelstrom. You'd want 2x in spell aiming for that so, it's not 100% on the CS/TD discussion, but should be fair game since there was also the recommendation of wizard wands. I like the idea of 702 ranger rods more (if you have FWI access, just ask me via crystal amulet global or lnet and I'll get you a bag of them).
As to 702 itself, consider being in stance offensive, both hands open, and using channel incant. At lower levels and including Airwall, you should have zero issues at all. This was how Kaldonis originally hunted, including brawling skill. Runestaff flares are okay, but probably the other parts of 702 will be better for your lower warding margin and generally weak creatures at this stage.
Also don't forget sacrifice. You'll know after hunting a creature for a day about how many shots of 702 they usually take. Either after they have taken the normal number, or one before, if they are stunned, sacrifice them up. Free kill, a nice zest, a little RT, and some free mana.
Incidentally, I always found 706 stun gave more freedom for the margin of error than a stun by other means like 702. I never tested it but, just curious if this personal experience might be worth actually testing to confirm. Even with Wracking this isn't a bad option at all, especially earlier in the hunt.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
