I took a monk for a test drive and realized that UAC has open handed casting written all over it. My main sorcerer has been around for decades and I have no idea how a modern sorcerer actually trains. I had a sword for these levels, the first time around.
At level four, I have 6 mana and five spells. I find myself casting all of my spells for defense and only use blood burst offensively. I also “cheat” and snatch up a shield, even though I am not trained for it and use dirtkick a lot. I also carry a runestaff, but put it away once the fight gets going. It doesn't seem half bad, but I know my training path is going to get me killed someday.
I was thinking of attempting to collect all 10 MOC ranks by level 10-12 and survive to 20 using 703, 706, 710 and 711. Is that a valid training path? My main sorcerer, Magarven is a disabler, he tends to live on pain, limb break, nightmare and curse so this seems natural to me.
Of course the last time I did this, I was level 30 or 40 before runestaves were introduced, so I have no idea how they work at low level.
Obviously, I want to avoid those nasty maneuver based creatures as much as possible, so I may be sticking to the graveyard’s dirges and hobgoblins for a good long time.
What do you think of this training:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Combat Maneuvers...................| 20 4 (as much as possible until 10th level, may pick up disarm to go with dirtkick.)
Brawling...........................| 30 6 (1x)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2 (Ideally 10 ranks by 10-12th level, but I already goofed)
Physical Fitness...................| 30 6 (1x)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 10 2 (atleast .5x, forever)
Magic Item Use.....................| 10 2 (atleast .5x, forever)
Harness Power......................| 10 2 (atleast .5x, forever)
Elemental Mana Control.............| 25 5 (atleast .5x, forever)
Spirit Mana Control................| 25 5 (atleast .5x, forever)
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 20 4 (I am not set on lores, need this for BB effects)
Survival...........................| 20 4 (RP value, not much in the future.)
Perception.........................| 25 5 (1x as a general pricipal)
Climbing...........................| 15 3 (No clear plan)
Swimming...........................| 5 1 (No clear plan)
First Aid..........................| 25 5 (No clear plan)
Trading............................| 5 1 (I don't know why I did this.)
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 1
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 3
Magvaren the Mad
SOLFE
DAID
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/17/2014 11:59 AM CDT
Back in the GS3 days, Kaldonis was originally an open-handed sorcerer. Once runestaves were released, I found that new system too compelling. At least back in the GS3 days, 1x in Brawling was not enough to make use of the "Voln fu" system effectively, so basically the advantages to Brawling were: 1) Cannot be disarmed 2) Open handed casting for 702 and 705. (There are other details with increasing DS by tiger-claws, but these days there are hand-wraps.) I expect these days 1x in brawling generally doesn't enable one to hunt using the UAC system for offense, but I am certainly unfamiliar with it. At that time there was no channeling, either, and the benefit of open hands was just simply applied to casting 702 and 705 normally.
The issue that comes up is the following, from KP for 702: "If channeling, more offensive stances as well as having one or both hands empty also have the potential to increase the damage inflicted." Because channeling inflicts hard RT, you'll be stuck in offensive (unlike for stance dancing with bolt spells, where bolt-casters end up in a semi-guarded stance). So, to really take advantage of the system, you also want to consider being in offensive stance, too, which will certainly limit the DS, and a runestaff already allows one hand to be open, and further offers the FULL enchant benefit to the runestaff regardless of stance. Runestaves can also be used to deflect bolt spells, so as a brawler (or any non-shield, non-runestaff user), your bolt DS will suffer significantly (but you have access to Corrupt Essence and Limb Disruption, so it's possible to keep things from casting in general). Now I don't know much about UAC, but it seems to me one has not really gained that much in the realm of open-handed casting by brawling compared to what one can do already. That is to say, being open-handed in offensive with or without brawling training, besides UAC defense, one has hardly gained a significant advantage. With enough arcane symbols training, one can also invoke any scroll while holding a runestaff, so even this infrequently helpful trick isn't really an advantage to brawling anymore. Runestaff DS is futher unaffected by holding a scroll or a wand in the offhand.
Using brawling, with two open hands, but in guarded stance, but with a higher melee DS, then, is essentially your sole benefit (and only for 702 and 705 among all your spells) in my opinion. You also lose any flares a runestaff will give you when you are casting, which can be quite significant (say, fire against trolls). Furthermore, with a runestaff, you essentially get all the benefits for free, while going after magical skills you'd want anyway. So you trade training points, a number of advantages, for specifically one tactic. At the lower levels, where one might use 702 as a primary hunting tactic, one can literally suffer the DS loss of not training brawling and not holding a runestaff a lot of the time, by overtraining spells to get 430 and 120 as soon as possible. At higher levels, one relies less and less on 702 typically and more on other spells which do not use the channeling system, negating any gain whatsoever with open-hands (except against disarm). Then summing this all together, I personally could never again bring myself to be a brawling sorcerer in modern GS4, despite that I used to do it and found it quite viable in GS3.
Now, as to the training path. Regardless of your end-goal training path, everyone should do the same thing in the first thirty days, when skills immediately migrate. Firstly, just swing a claidhmore to kill stuff. You can literally learn defensive spells (401, 406, 101, 103, 107) and harness power, when resting spell yourself up, then go migrate all your skills into two-handed weapons, physical fitness, and combat manuevers. For a sorcerer, by around level 7 or so, you're better off just shifting all your skills to harness power and ranks of 700 (you'd probably use all your points getting those to 3x, with a little physical training for posterity) and go hunting like that. It's a total abuse of the system, but you can only do it for a month so why not?
Above I am mostly trying to give you, objectively, the mechanical situation which appears to disfavor brawling. But I don't want it to be read saying that you shouldn't do it if you want to. It's a lot of fun to train your character in a way you'll enjoy. (Someone asked me on LNet yesterday why a sorcerer would disarm traps and pick locks before a long-term post-cap goal. It's fun, I enjoy it, and I don't seem to have any difficulty at all hunting mid-80s despite 40 ranks of each of those skills and 1x perception). Still, less that 1x harness power seems suicidal. Many sorcerer spells expect 1x for both mana controls. You won't be any good at Planar Shifting with so low mana controls. You'll have a difficult time ensorcelling. Without demonology, you cannot really make much use of phase or reliably have retribution from cloak of shadows. So, just realize, going for a heavy brawling and CM path that sacrifices magic skills is really going to nerf many of your abilities as a sorcerer.
So if you're set on doing it, definitely nix survival, first aid, trading, and all these subsidary skills. Get your minimum acceptable brawling/cm ranks, and put the rest in to trying to get your essential magical skills like HP, EMC, SMC. Less than 2x spells seems utterly suicidal to me, and I hardly see the benefits from MOC at all (if using melee, 5 ranks to get your two-opponent swing in...otherwise as far as its effects on spells, use your Adv Guild badge or other enhancives to get the 2 to 4 ranks you'd want).
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
The issue that comes up is the following, from KP for 702: "If channeling, more offensive stances as well as having one or both hands empty also have the potential to increase the damage inflicted." Because channeling inflicts hard RT, you'll be stuck in offensive (unlike for stance dancing with bolt spells, where bolt-casters end up in a semi-guarded stance). So, to really take advantage of the system, you also want to consider being in offensive stance, too, which will certainly limit the DS, and a runestaff already allows one hand to be open, and further offers the FULL enchant benefit to the runestaff regardless of stance. Runestaves can also be used to deflect bolt spells, so as a brawler (or any non-shield, non-runestaff user), your bolt DS will suffer significantly (but you have access to Corrupt Essence and Limb Disruption, so it's possible to keep things from casting in general). Now I don't know much about UAC, but it seems to me one has not really gained that much in the realm of open-handed casting by brawling compared to what one can do already. That is to say, being open-handed in offensive with or without brawling training, besides UAC defense, one has hardly gained a significant advantage. With enough arcane symbols training, one can also invoke any scroll while holding a runestaff, so even this infrequently helpful trick isn't really an advantage to brawling anymore. Runestaff DS is futher unaffected by holding a scroll or a wand in the offhand.
Using brawling, with two open hands, but in guarded stance, but with a higher melee DS, then, is essentially your sole benefit (and only for 702 and 705 among all your spells) in my opinion. You also lose any flares a runestaff will give you when you are casting, which can be quite significant (say, fire against trolls). Furthermore, with a runestaff, you essentially get all the benefits for free, while going after magical skills you'd want anyway. So you trade training points, a number of advantages, for specifically one tactic. At the lower levels, where one might use 702 as a primary hunting tactic, one can literally suffer the DS loss of not training brawling and not holding a runestaff a lot of the time, by overtraining spells to get 430 and 120 as soon as possible. At higher levels, one relies less and less on 702 typically and more on other spells which do not use the channeling system, negating any gain whatsoever with open-hands (except against disarm). Then summing this all together, I personally could never again bring myself to be a brawling sorcerer in modern GS4, despite that I used to do it and found it quite viable in GS3.
Now, as to the training path. Regardless of your end-goal training path, everyone should do the same thing in the first thirty days, when skills immediately migrate. Firstly, just swing a claidhmore to kill stuff. You can literally learn defensive spells (401, 406, 101, 103, 107) and harness power, when resting spell yourself up, then go migrate all your skills into two-handed weapons, physical fitness, and combat manuevers. For a sorcerer, by around level 7 or so, you're better off just shifting all your skills to harness power and ranks of 700 (you'd probably use all your points getting those to 3x, with a little physical training for posterity) and go hunting like that. It's a total abuse of the system, but you can only do it for a month so why not?
Above I am mostly trying to give you, objectively, the mechanical situation which appears to disfavor brawling. But I don't want it to be read saying that you shouldn't do it if you want to. It's a lot of fun to train your character in a way you'll enjoy. (Someone asked me on LNet yesterday why a sorcerer would disarm traps and pick locks before a long-term post-cap goal. It's fun, I enjoy it, and I don't seem to have any difficulty at all hunting mid-80s despite 40 ranks of each of those skills and 1x perception). Still, less that 1x harness power seems suicidal. Many sorcerer spells expect 1x for both mana controls. You won't be any good at Planar Shifting with so low mana controls. You'll have a difficult time ensorcelling. Without demonology, you cannot really make much use of phase or reliably have retribution from cloak of shadows. So, just realize, going for a heavy brawling and CM path that sacrifices magic skills is really going to nerf many of your abilities as a sorcerer.
So if you're set on doing it, definitely nix survival, first aid, trading, and all these subsidary skills. Get your minimum acceptable brawling/cm ranks, and put the rest in to trying to get your essential magical skills like HP, EMC, SMC. Less than 2x spells seems utterly suicidal to me, and I hardly see the benefits from MOC at all (if using melee, 5 ranks to get your two-opponent swing in...otherwise as far as its effects on spells, use your Adv Guild badge or other enhancives to get the 2 to 4 ranks you'd want).
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
DAID
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/17/2014 12:07 PM CDT
>So you trade training points, a number of advantages, for specifically one tactic.
I should really have bolded this whole line originally. I did make it to level 20 in GS3 with brawling, and certainly SMC/EMC and similar things can put attained a little later. Under level 20, you can train just about any character any way you want and probably slog through it without too much pain.
But if the goal here is to be a super boss with 702 and 705, shouldn't one be putting absolutely tons of points towards the 700s circle to maximize CS? After all, why go to all the effort of open-handed casting if your resulting CS is going to suffer anyway?
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
I should really have bolded this whole line originally. I did make it to level 20 in GS3 with brawling, and certainly SMC/EMC and similar things can put attained a little later. Under level 20, you can train just about any character any way you want and probably slog through it without too much pain.
But if the goal here is to be a super boss with 702 and 705, shouldn't one be putting absolutely tons of points towards the 700s circle to maximize CS? After all, why go to all the effort of open-handed casting if your resulting CS is going to suffer anyway?
daid (player of the temporally-challenged Harvest-Moon clan)
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
CRACKER03
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/19/2014 07:20 PM CDT
I can't speak for early levels, but at cap, a UAC sorcerer may be possible, but it would be horribly painful. 1x brawling/1x cman, with wizard's strength, bravery, symbol of courage, and (where applicable) symbol of supremacy I haven't been able to do any noticeable damage to Nelemar critters, even after using symbol of sleep. Possibly with heavily enchanted arm/footwraps, additional buffs from scrolls, 117, and web/limb it could be possible...but horrifyingly slow unless you are just dying for a frustrating challenge. Versus the 3-9 seconds it takes to kill everything with battle spells, I can't see the benefit. As mutant builds go for sorcerers, this might be the most painful variant as you approach and exceed cap.
>negating any gain whatsoever with open-hands (except against disarm).
Personally I wouldn't glaze over this so quickly. Disarm is one of the most common maneuvers employed by critters over level 30. Once disarmed as a runestave user your DS is significantly reduced. It's worse than having CoS dispelled. While Daid's points about the benefits of runestaves over/compared to brawl shield are without question valid, if you like a little more security, brawl shield is still an excellent way to go IMO. Granted, there are trade offs, your DS will be a hair lower...but stable. You won't be able to train as heavily in magical skills, MIU, AS, etc. which will affect your skills at things like ensorcell. The advantage is, your runestave DS will still be good, if slightly lower than a pure stave user, which means you have a lot of flexibility. Shield/brawl vs disarmers, runestave vs shield bashers, and either should one or the other become temporarily unviable for any other reason (ie missing limb)
--Jurp
PS. Not that it matters today, but with old Voln Fu, at pretty much every level you could find undead that were horribly prone against 1x training. It made for a great mana saver in the rift, nelemar, etc...and made killing soul golems and greater constructs possible and even easy. Next to old school DC it's possibly the greatest lost many of us have suffered to the lords & ladies of the Order of NERF.
>negating any gain whatsoever with open-hands (except against disarm).
Personally I wouldn't glaze over this so quickly. Disarm is one of the most common maneuvers employed by critters over level 30. Once disarmed as a runestave user your DS is significantly reduced. It's worse than having CoS dispelled. While Daid's points about the benefits of runestaves over/compared to brawl shield are without question valid, if you like a little more security, brawl shield is still an excellent way to go IMO. Granted, there are trade offs, your DS will be a hair lower...but stable. You won't be able to train as heavily in magical skills, MIU, AS, etc. which will affect your skills at things like ensorcell. The advantage is, your runestave DS will still be good, if slightly lower than a pure stave user, which means you have a lot of flexibility. Shield/brawl vs disarmers, runestave vs shield bashers, and either should one or the other become temporarily unviable for any other reason (ie missing limb)
--Jurp
PS. Not that it matters today, but with old Voln Fu, at pretty much every level you could find undead that were horribly prone against 1x training. It made for a great mana saver in the rift, nelemar, etc...and made killing soul golems and greater constructs possible and even easy. Next to old school DC it's possibly the greatest lost many of us have suffered to the lords & ladies of the Order of NERF.
SOLFE
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 05:42 AM CDT
What is working for me today, sounds horrible for the future.
Well, since I am sitting a new fixskill for the year, I am going to run with this as far as I can and change up my skills when I can't advance any more. I may just be another data point that early training doesn't count for much.
Magarven the Mad
Well, since I am sitting a new fixskill for the year, I am going to run with this as far as I can and change up my skills when I can't advance any more. I may just be another data point that early training doesn't count for much.
Magarven the Mad
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 08:26 AM CDT
A significant change with UAC's replacement of Voln Fu is the inclusion of a UAF penalty from Spirit Barrier (102). There was no spirit barrier Voln Fu MB penalty. However, Strength (509) which didn't directly add to the MB value will increase UAF +15.
Spirit Barrier (102) is -20 UAF and an additional -1 UAF for every two MnS ranks above 2.
Example with 30 MnS ranks (+34 DS | -34 UAF):
You attempt to punch a giant rat!
You have good positioning against a giant rat.
UAF: 25 vs UDF: 32 = 0.781 * MM: 94 + d100: 47 = 120
stop 102 (-34 DS | +34 UAF)
With a moment's concentration, you terminate the Spirit Barrier spell.
The air calms down around you.
You attempt to punch a giant rat!
You have good positioning against a giant rat.
UAF: 59 vs UDF: 32 = 1.843 * MM: 94 + d100: 25 = 198
Mark
Spirit Barrier (102) is -20 UAF and an additional -1 UAF for every two MnS ranks above 2.
Example with 30 MnS ranks (+34 DS | -34 UAF):
You attempt to punch a giant rat!
You have good positioning against a giant rat.
UAF: 25 vs UDF: 32 = 0.781 * MM: 94 + d100: 47 = 120
stop 102 (-34 DS | +34 UAF)
With a moment's concentration, you terminate the Spirit Barrier spell.
The air calms down around you.
You attempt to punch a giant rat!
You have good positioning against a giant rat.
UAF: 59 vs UDF: 32 = 1.843 * MM: 94 + d100: 25 = 198
Mark
DAID
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 09:10 AM CDT
>Personally I wouldn't glaze over this so quickly. Disarm is one of the most common maneuvers employed by critters over level 30. Once disarmed as a runestave user your DS is significantly reduced. It's worse than having CoS dispelled.
Definitely. I've considered from time to time to get 10 (or more) ranks of brawling just for DS when disarmed in an off-stance.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
Definitely. I've considered from time to time to get 10 (or more) ranks of brawling just for DS when disarmed in an off-stance.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 10:23 AM CDT
>Definitely. I've considered from time to time to get 10 (or more) ranks of brawling just for DS when disarmed in an off-stance. -- DAID
10 brawling ranks with 25 STR and 25 DEX bonuses will net +4 DS in offensive stance.
.
If you add 1 rank of TWC you'll gain an additional +7 DS (+5 from off-hand bonus):
.
Total offensive parry DS with 10 brawling ranks, 1 TWC rank w/ 25 STR | 25 DEX bonuses
.
You'll gain +1.5 DS in stance OFF for each additional 5 brawling ranks.
Defensive stance is a different story because of the higher stance mods (0.7 and 0.35 respectively) and the +50 DS from the parry stance bonus.
Parry DS in stance DEF with 10 brawling ranks, 1 TWC rank, 25 STR | 25 DEX bonuses = +77 DS
You could increase these values by wearing enchanted handwraps but not significantly. With 4x (+20 enchant bonus) handwraps add +3 in stance OFF and +10 in stance DEF.
Mark
10 brawling ranks with 25 STR and 25 DEX bonuses will net +4 DS in offensive stance.
.
| [(10 + trunc(25/4) + trunc(25/4)] * 0.2 stance mod = +4 DS |
If you add 1 rank of TWC you'll gain an additional +7 DS (+5 from off-hand bonus):
.
| 5 + [(10 + trunc(25/4) + trunc(25/4) * 0.1 stance mod)] = +7 DS |
Total offensive parry DS with 10 brawling ranks, 1 TWC rank w/ 25 STR | 25 DEX bonuses
.
| 4 primary hand + 7 off-hand = +11 DS |
You'll gain +1.5 DS in stance OFF for each additional 5 brawling ranks.
Defensive stance is a different story because of the higher stance mods (0.7 and 0.35 respectively) and the +50 DS from the parry stance bonus.
Parry DS in stance DEF with 10 brawling ranks, 1 TWC rank, 25 STR | 25 DEX bonuses = +77 DS
You could increase these values by wearing enchanted handwraps but not significantly. With 4x (+20 enchant bonus) handwraps add +3 in stance OFF and +10 in stance DEF.
Mark
DAID
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 10:54 AM CDT
Well, the first ten ranks are still the best DS per training point. Not sure why I chose the term "off-stance" since I just woke up. I meant like guarded, but you've covered that at the end.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/20/2014 12:15 PM CDT
>Well, the first ten ranks are still the best DS per training point. Not sure why I chose the term "off-stance" since I just woke up. I meant like guarded, but you've covered that at the end. -- DAID
I need to correct the off-hand parry DS from my previous post. Those calculations reflect 10 ranks for both brawling and TWC instead of 10 brawl and 1 TWC.
should read:
.
Off-hand DS
Total stance OFF DS: (4 primary + 6 off-hand) = +10 DS
and +1 DS for each 5 brawling ranks in stance OFF.
A specific number of ranks, after the first, is irrelevant. You need 1 rank to activate parry. In guarded stance each brawling rank adds +0.6 DS at a cost of 10/2 TPs per rank. Those 9 additional ranks will increase empty handed guarded DS +5/+6 depending on rounding at a cost (assuming conversion) of 126 PTPs. As always, it's an individual decision whether the TP expenditure is a beneficial trade-off for the DS gain.
Also, this will only provide DS against melee attacks. There is no benefit vs CS or ranged (bolts, arrows, thrown weapons) attacks since ranged attacks bypass weapon parry DS.
Mark
I need to correct the off-hand parry DS from my previous post. Those calculations reflect 10 ranks for both brawling and TWC instead of 10 brawl and 1 TWC.
should read:
.
Off-hand DS
| 5 + [(1 + trunc(25/4) + trunc(25/4) * 0.1 stance mod)] = +6 DS |
Total stance OFF DS: (4 primary + 6 off-hand) = +10 DS
and +1 DS for each 5 brawling ranks in stance OFF.
A specific number of ranks, after the first, is irrelevant. You need 1 rank to activate parry. In guarded stance each brawling rank adds +0.6 DS at a cost of 10/2 TPs per rank. Those 9 additional ranks will increase empty handed guarded DS +5/+6 depending on rounding at a cost (assuming conversion) of 126 PTPs. As always, it's an individual decision whether the TP expenditure is a beneficial trade-off for the DS gain.
Also, this will only provide DS against melee attacks. There is no benefit vs CS or ranged (bolts, arrows, thrown weapons) attacks since ranged attacks bypass weapon parry DS.
Mark
CRACKER03
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/22/2014 07:57 PM CDT
>Spirit Barrier (102) is -20 UAF and an additional -1 UAF for every two MnS ranks above 2.
I had forgotten that bit. I suppose if I get bored this weekend I'll try dropping airwall in Nelemar and see if it makes a significant difference.
--Jurp
I had forgotten that bit. I suppose if I get bored this weekend I'll try dropping airwall in Nelemar and see if it makes a significant difference.
--Jurp
CRACKER03
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/25/2014 08:35 PM CDT
>I had forgotten that bit. I suppose if I get bored this weekend I'll try dropping airwall in Nelemar and see if it makes a significant difference.
further testing with airwall down has netted much the same results. It's possible...but painful.
--Jurp
further testing with airwall down has netted much the same results. It's possible...but painful.
--Jurp
ARIETTA
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/27/2014 04:31 AM CDT
In my royal opinion, the UAC system broke brawling for sorcerers. Voln-fu used to be viable with 1x brawling. UAC is not really viable at 1x, at least not without a lot of extra (read: expensive) help. Brawling DS has always been weaker than runestaff DS, but the advantages that made it fun are gone. Of course, it's still possible to make it work; it's just not really worth the trade-off. A runestaff offers great DS and excellent protection from bolts and ranged weapons, plus flares and ensorcelling, for absolutely zero training points. That leaves a whopping ton of points free for magical skills you're really going to want, especially with the perks you get from lores and mana controls.
But what do I know, I'm just the future supreme empress of the world. Besides, you sorcerers are all nucking futz.
~ GtG
But what do I know, I'm just the future supreme empress of the world. Besides, you sorcerers are all nucking futz.
~ GtG
DAID
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/27/2014 12:09 PM CDT
I definitely couldn't disagree even if I never found Voln fu useful (at all), though as a halfling CoL was always more appealing with that spirit regeneration and strength lacking business. (Grumble using lots of society resets grumble.)
That being said,
>A runestaff offers great DS and excellent protection from bolts and ranged weapons, plus flares and ensorcelling, for absolutely zero training points.
Much more succinctly than I! But this, this is what broke brawling for sorcerers I think. Which I know I said. I just like to agree with people when it's what I think is close enough to what I'm getting at, too.
But yeah, as I said at the outset UAC is far from my domain. And I made enough typographical woops that even though brawling sorcery was my mojo fifteen years ago, I'm waaay out of the loop by now.
Man, I just realized Vvrael Destroyers are immune to magic (just checking KP... not to that prowess yet either way). What bull. It was annoying enough having to Pain krag dwellers to death, and avoiding 2 out of 3 bolts spells any time I DO hunt the Bowels because the TDs are certainly not low (wonder what "spiiiiderhalfling" is referencing? It's using the mindless technique of "I cast web bolts and I only cast web bolts" as a Bowels hunting tactic). It's starting to grate on me that maybe hunting wasn't the sorcerer's prowess who doesn't 3x spells. Ah well, I took up lockpicking; dexterity bonuses are good for that, right? Right!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
That being said,
>A runestaff offers great DS and excellent protection from bolts and ranged weapons, plus flares and ensorcelling, for absolutely zero training points.
Much more succinctly than I! But this, this is what broke brawling for sorcerers I think. Which I know I said. I just like to agree with people when it's what I think is close enough to what I'm getting at, too.
But yeah, as I said at the outset UAC is far from my domain. And I made enough typographical woops that even though brawling sorcery was my mojo fifteen years ago, I'm waaay out of the loop by now.
Man, I just realized Vvrael Destroyers are immune to magic (just checking KP... not to that prowess yet either way). What bull. It was annoying enough having to Pain krag dwellers to death, and avoiding 2 out of 3 bolts spells any time I DO hunt the Bowels because the TDs are certainly not low (wonder what "spiiiiderhalfling" is referencing? It's using the mindless technique of "I cast web bolts and I only cast web bolts" as a Bowels hunting tactic). It's starting to grate on me that maybe hunting wasn't the sorcerer's prowess who doesn't 3x spells. Ah well, I took up lockpicking; dexterity bonuses are good for that, right? Right!
>(OOC) Rozy's player whispers to the group, "Spiiiiiderhalfling!"
>Out of no where, a ki-lin gallops in.
THROGG
Re: Brawling Sorcerer - Level 4
05/27/2014 08:33 PM CDT
UAC at higher levels is not practical for professions that can't 2x in brawling. OK, you can use web or bind or whatever to drop the target's defense, but if you are going to do that, you may as well use another attack form (archery? THWs?) to finish off the foe.
That having been said, my cleric is brawl and shield trained, but that's a lot cheaper TP wise for clerics than sorcerers. And even she uses it mainly for physical DS and open handed casting, not UAC attacks.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
That having been said, my cleric is brawl and shield trained, but that's a lot cheaper TP wise for clerics than sorcerers. And even she uses it mainly for physical DS and open handed casting, not UAC attacks.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
