Wondering what goes into this spell. MOC does and as I understand it, it increases the minimum extra number of creatures stunned and the maximum number of creatures possibly stunned. So, zero MOC would be 0-6 extra creatures stunned, one rank would be 1-7, etc...?
Training in mana control reduces the cost by two mana for every one times trained to a min of 14. I think I got that part correct. What does into determining if I successfully implode a creature? Is it just level based? Does spell aiming have anything to do with it? Trains in sorcerer spell ranks?
Thanks
MIGHTYMOUSE
TROUBLE13
Re: 720 Questions
12/29/2013 08:49 PM CST
Sorcerer spell ranks and spell aiming for focused implosion.
MIGHTYMOUSE
Re: 720 Questions
12/30/2013 01:50 AM CST
Wonderful. Thank you. Is the a benefit to over training in spell ranks for the spell? Is there a cap on the returns for over training?
KARDIOS
Re: 720 Questions
12/30/2013 10:35 AM CST
<< MOC does and as I understand it, it increases the minimum extra number of creatures stunned and the maximum number of creatures possibly stunned. So, zero MOC would be 0-6 extra creatures stunned, one rank would be 1-7, etc...? >>
MOC training does not guarantee a minimum number of stunned non-target critters. So far as I can tell, it does not even increase the probability of stunning non-target critters. So one rank of MOC would be 0-7, and two ranks of MOC would be 0-8. It is not the same as the splash effect of ball spells.
MOC training does not guarantee a minimum number of stunned non-target critters. So far as I can tell, it does not even increase the probability of stunning non-target critters. So one rank of MOC would be 0-7, and two ranks of MOC would be 0-8. It is not the same as the splash effect of ball spells.
TROUBLE13
Re: 720 Questions
12/30/2013 03:15 PM CST
>>Wonderful. Thank you. Is the a benefit to over training in spell ranks for the spell? Is there a cap on the returns for over training?
You do get benefits for over training in sorcerer spells, I don't believe there is a cap on them but I am pretty sure you face diminishing returns like you do with CS.
You do get benefits for over training in sorcerer spells, I don't believe there is a cap on them but I am pretty sure you face diminishing returns like you do with CS.
MIGHTYMOUSE
Re: 720 Questions
12/31/2013 01:23 PM CST
Is there a way to increase the change of stunning other creatures?
KARDIOS
Re: 720 Questions
12/31/2013 03:00 PM CST
<< Is there a way to increase the change of stunning other creatures? >>
No, at least none that I know of.
Also, after looking back at my notes, I think the chance to stun a non-target with no MO training is limited to the first two non-target critters, with each rank of MO increasing that number by one. I realize that Krakiipedia says it is six. I'm not sure where that number came from. My information comes from a post by Romulus on July 1, 2000. The issue of stunning non-targets was still under consideration at the time of Romulus' post, and Romulus indicated that it might be removed altogether. I am pasting the full text of Romulus' post below. When reading it, keep in mind that the mana costs were later increased (or the benefit of mana control was decreased). It's possible that the number of targets was also adjusted.
So we need somebody with no MO training to find a room full of critters and post the results.
Everything below is pasted:
Category Sorcerers (38)
Topic Sorcerer General Discussion (6)
Message Update :) (4158)
By GS3-KYALIA@PLAY.NET
On Jul 1, 2000 at 01:19
Greetings Sorcerers. Here is an update I recieved from Romulus.
This is an excerpt from my updated notes concerning the changes to FI:
1) Focused Implosion (720) will be modified and the coding is done and being tested in our Dev area at this time. The following are the issues, many of which are technical in nature, that we are addressing in this change:
a) We are fixing a few bugs, one is where Rangers were getting a professional defensive modifier and not Sorcerers. mumble This same bug was in the original code and was copied over to the new version without being caught at the time.
b) We moved the critter INtelligence modifier to another location so that it could be modified in the creature BCS code as needed for specific critter design. This will help to enable creature designers to make specific resistances or modifiers to how susceptible a critter is to FI rather than to simply make them immune. This is a good thing.
c) Aiming handling was changed to encourage continued training in the Spell Aiming skill. Aiming is now largely based on player training ranks vs target level. Older Sorcerers with less than 1 rank per each 2 levels (less than 25% trained) may experience less than direct hits. Also, the DExterity bonus was added to the caster's aiming ability.
In our Dev area I was tested FI without any items on the ground and at 25% trained in SA.
I was hunting as a level 60 Sorcerer in Darkstone and had little difficulty getting my mind fried and keeping it that way. Against banshees I usually required two or three casts, but often a single cast did the job. Sents were a good bit tougher and would often require seven to nine casts. Sents are a highly crit resistant critter so with so little SA training I would suggest using MD or DC. With full SA training I found FI to still be awesome, as it should be. Banshees (5 levels lower than my training at the time) were nearly always insta-kills and sents usually only required two or three casts although often a single cast was all that was required.
I still haven't tested against TKs or done much testing at other than 25% and 100% SA skill training. I'll continue that testing as the other staff members and I address some of the other issues such as the vacuum crit table and the applicability of MO skill use.
d) Weighting of the attack was modified to consider the target level vs the caster level and while the weighting was shifted down slightly it still gives a decent kill ratio for a 20th level spell. It is our opinion that making Focused Implosion less of an obliteration spell and more of a killing spell will be good for Sorcery and provide us with more corpses to search for treasure. INtelligence is still the applicable attribute here.
e) Mana cost was modified to be based more on the caster's mana share skill. It will now cost only 8 mana for someone who is fully doubled in Mana Share, 12 mana for a caster who is single trained and about 16 mana for a caster who trains once every other level. The intent here is to provide you with a reason, although slight, to continue to train in Mana Share.
f) The area effect stunning was modified to check for only up to the first two creatures other than the target in the area. There is a bonus of one creature for each rank of Multi Opponent skill training you have. This does not mean that MO is a required skill, just that if you wish to have a chance of stunning more critters in the room you will need to have the proper training. Remember, this is a chance of stunning other critters in the room and not a guarantee. Also, creatures that aren't supposed to be stunnable will no longer be stunned.
g) The way we call to the creature BCS code was modified to allow us to code in eventual critter resistances rather than blanket immunities as is presently the norm. The critter IN change mentioned earlier was part of this modification.
h) We added target status modifiers to increase the weighting of the attack if the target is prone, stunned or immobile.
As the changes to FI are an issue of concern for many of you I'll explain further... With the single exception of some SA training there is no other skill that is >required< for successful use of FI. However, if you wish to be able to cast the spell at a mana discount you will need some Mana Share training. Simply put, the higher your MS training ratio, the more efficiently you can cast this spell option. Up to a point (8 mana).
As presently coded, the live version of FI gives a flat percentage chance of stunning every non target critter in the room. It is a common feeling that this feature is too powerful without incurring some additional cost. So in our version under development we decided to limit the automatic chance to stun to the first two critters after the target. To have a chance to stun additional critters is a viable concept in my opinion, so we designed the code to include the chance to stun one more critter for each rank of Multi Opponent skill of the caster.
This feature (the ability to stun non target critters) may be removed entirely and there are some strong arguments for doing so, but it is my hope that we can use the Multi Opponent skill, as expensive as it is, as a viable training tool so that we can keep this feature in the Focused Implosion code.
I realize that this Multi Opponent skill is not commonly thought of as a component for the training of spell casters, but multi opponent is a concept that is not yet fleshed out to its fullest potential. Just because most people think of it as a physical combat skill does not mean that it has to be. Multi Opponent simply means the ability to enact combat against multiple opponents, be that physically or magically. If we cannot use the MO skill to defray the cost of doing damage to or stunning multiple targets, then the feature of stunning the other critters in the room with FI may have to be removed altogether.
(I am in discussions concerning this very issue with the senior staff and the other GMs at this time. I'm afraid that if we are not allowed to use the MO skill option to "pay" for the ability to stun the other critters, that feature may have to be removed. In any instance this feature may or may not survive or it may be altered from our present plans.
As you can no doubt tell this use of MO is a highly debatable issue and is subject to acceptance or rejection at any time.)
One thing that we have noticed in our testing is that the critting and damage for vacuum based attacks seems to have an "all or nothing" result. It is one of our desires that we have a useful mid-range area of damage for vacuum crits, so one of the things we are looking at is changing the vacuum crit tables to allow us more useful damage in the mid range of the vacuum crit tables.
I prefer to have the changes to the vacuum crit tables in place and a determination concerning the use of MO to allow the void to stun more critters in the room before implementing the new series of changes to FI.
-Romulus
Again.. I hope you have a great weekend.
Your Liaison Kyalia
No, at least none that I know of.
Also, after looking back at my notes, I think the chance to stun a non-target with no MO training is limited to the first two non-target critters, with each rank of MO increasing that number by one. I realize that Krakiipedia says it is six. I'm not sure where that number came from. My information comes from a post by Romulus on July 1, 2000. The issue of stunning non-targets was still under consideration at the time of Romulus' post, and Romulus indicated that it might be removed altogether. I am pasting the full text of Romulus' post below. When reading it, keep in mind that the mana costs were later increased (or the benefit of mana control was decreased). It's possible that the number of targets was also adjusted.
So we need somebody with no MO training to find a room full of critters and post the results.
Everything below is pasted:
Category Sorcerers (38)
Topic Sorcerer General Discussion (6)
Message Update :) (4158)
By GS3-KYALIA@PLAY.NET
On Jul 1, 2000 at 01:19
Greetings Sorcerers. Here is an update I recieved from Romulus.
This is an excerpt from my updated notes concerning the changes to FI:
1) Focused Implosion (720) will be modified and the coding is done and being tested in our Dev area at this time. The following are the issues, many of which are technical in nature, that we are addressing in this change:
a) We are fixing a few bugs, one is where Rangers were getting a professional defensive modifier and not Sorcerers. mumble This same bug was in the original code and was copied over to the new version without being caught at the time.
b) We moved the critter INtelligence modifier to another location so that it could be modified in the creature BCS code as needed for specific critter design. This will help to enable creature designers to make specific resistances or modifiers to how susceptible a critter is to FI rather than to simply make them immune. This is a good thing.
c) Aiming handling was changed to encourage continued training in the Spell Aiming skill. Aiming is now largely based on player training ranks vs target level. Older Sorcerers with less than 1 rank per each 2 levels (less than 25% trained) may experience less than direct hits. Also, the DExterity bonus was added to the caster's aiming ability.
In our Dev area I was tested FI without any items on the ground and at 25% trained in SA.
I was hunting as a level 60 Sorcerer in Darkstone and had little difficulty getting my mind fried and keeping it that way. Against banshees I usually required two or three casts, but often a single cast did the job. Sents were a good bit tougher and would often require seven to nine casts. Sents are a highly crit resistant critter so with so little SA training I would suggest using MD or DC. With full SA training I found FI to still be awesome, as it should be. Banshees (5 levels lower than my training at the time) were nearly always insta-kills and sents usually only required two or three casts although often a single cast was all that was required.
I still haven't tested against TKs or done much testing at other than 25% and 100% SA skill training. I'll continue that testing as the other staff members and I address some of the other issues such as the vacuum crit table and the applicability of MO skill use.
d) Weighting of the attack was modified to consider the target level vs the caster level and while the weighting was shifted down slightly it still gives a decent kill ratio for a 20th level spell. It is our opinion that making Focused Implosion less of an obliteration spell and more of a killing spell will be good for Sorcery and provide us with more corpses to search for treasure. INtelligence is still the applicable attribute here.
e) Mana cost was modified to be based more on the caster's mana share skill. It will now cost only 8 mana for someone who is fully doubled in Mana Share, 12 mana for a caster who is single trained and about 16 mana for a caster who trains once every other level. The intent here is to provide you with a reason, although slight, to continue to train in Mana Share.
f) The area effect stunning was modified to check for only up to the first two creatures other than the target in the area. There is a bonus of one creature for each rank of Multi Opponent skill training you have. This does not mean that MO is a required skill, just that if you wish to have a chance of stunning more critters in the room you will need to have the proper training. Remember, this is a chance of stunning other critters in the room and not a guarantee. Also, creatures that aren't supposed to be stunnable will no longer be stunned.
g) The way we call to the creature BCS code was modified to allow us to code in eventual critter resistances rather than blanket immunities as is presently the norm. The critter IN change mentioned earlier was part of this modification.
h) We added target status modifiers to increase the weighting of the attack if the target is prone, stunned or immobile.
As the changes to FI are an issue of concern for many of you I'll explain further... With the single exception of some SA training there is no other skill that is >required< for successful use of FI. However, if you wish to be able to cast the spell at a mana discount you will need some Mana Share training. Simply put, the higher your MS training ratio, the more efficiently you can cast this spell option. Up to a point (8 mana).
As presently coded, the live version of FI gives a flat percentage chance of stunning every non target critter in the room. It is a common feeling that this feature is too powerful without incurring some additional cost. So in our version under development we decided to limit the automatic chance to stun to the first two critters after the target. To have a chance to stun additional critters is a viable concept in my opinion, so we designed the code to include the chance to stun one more critter for each rank of Multi Opponent skill of the caster.
This feature (the ability to stun non target critters) may be removed entirely and there are some strong arguments for doing so, but it is my hope that we can use the Multi Opponent skill, as expensive as it is, as a viable training tool so that we can keep this feature in the Focused Implosion code.
I realize that this Multi Opponent skill is not commonly thought of as a component for the training of spell casters, but multi opponent is a concept that is not yet fleshed out to its fullest potential. Just because most people think of it as a physical combat skill does not mean that it has to be. Multi Opponent simply means the ability to enact combat against multiple opponents, be that physically or magically. If we cannot use the MO skill to defray the cost of doing damage to or stunning multiple targets, then the feature of stunning the other critters in the room with FI may have to be removed altogether.
(I am in discussions concerning this very issue with the senior staff and the other GMs at this time. I'm afraid that if we are not allowed to use the MO skill option to "pay" for the ability to stun the other critters, that feature may have to be removed. In any instance this feature may or may not survive or it may be altered from our present plans.
As you can no doubt tell this use of MO is a highly debatable issue and is subject to acceptance or rejection at any time.)
One thing that we have noticed in our testing is that the critting and damage for vacuum based attacks seems to have an "all or nothing" result. It is one of our desires that we have a useful mid-range area of damage for vacuum crits, so one of the things we are looking at is changing the vacuum crit tables to allow us more useful damage in the mid range of the vacuum crit tables.
I prefer to have the changes to the vacuum crit tables in place and a determination concerning the use of MO to allow the void to stun more critters in the room before implementing the new series of changes to FI.
-Romulus
Again.. I hope you have a great weekend.
Your Liaison Kyalia
