Good morning! Looking for training advice for a rogue who I plan to push locksmithing on at least until he can open level 40ish boxes with ease. Primarily using him to open boxes from other characters, who are currently in the 24 level range.
Here are current stats based off trying maximize for growth without making it painful since my focus is closer to level 50 than it is 100. I have a few days left in 30 day cycle and 3 more stat allocations so I have some time to adjust. I do like UAC but other thoughts on hunting styles to maximize locksmith are welcomed.
Name: Finnrec Race: Half-Elf Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 175515 Level: 12
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Constitution (CON): 77 (13) ... 77 (13)
Dexterity (DEX): 65 (12) ... 65 (12)
Agility (AGI): 68 (19) ... 68 (19)
Discipline (DIS): 80 (10) ... 80 (10)
Aura (AUR): 73 (11) ... 73 (11)
Logic (LOG): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Intuition (INT): 68 (9) ... 68 (9)
Wisdom (WIS): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Influence (INF): 38 (-1) ... 38 (-1)
Finnrec (at level 12), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 62 13
Brawling...........................| 108 26
Physical Fitness...................| 62 13
Dodging............................| 108 26
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 142 42
Picking Locks......................| 142 42
Perception.........................| 142 42
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 5 1
GLEWT
OM1E5GA
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 10:08 AM CDT
If this character is going to be primarily a locksmith, I'd def increase the DEX as high as possible (the DEX bonus adds directly to picking ranks when picking a box and also helps with disarming traps). This will be even more important if you don't plan on going over level 50, since it won't have as much time to grow.
As for skills, if you're going to be hunting at all you're going to want at least 2x in S&H no matter what you choose as your weapon (including your fists). Rogues are designed to take advantage of the stance pushdown/critical weighting added to attacks from hiding to allow them to kill quickly. Esp if you intend on using UAC, you'll quickly find it extremely difficult to kill anything fast enough to avoid dying regularly if you can't utilize the shadows.
If you're going to only 1x in CM, you're also going to want to pick up 1x or more in Ambush. Rogues don't have the luxury of allowing for the luck of the draw to determine what body part is hit like warriors and monks do. If you stick with UAC, you're going to want to either aim directly for the head with critters that aren't too tall or aim for their leg when switch to the head if they're too tall to target their head while they're standing.
It looks like you're trying to use UAC with both hands open to avoid the MM penalty for holding a shield, which I can understand. I'm not sure how much longer this will be viable with a rogue, though. So long as you're not having problems getting hit, go with it. You might eventually want to pick up .5x-1x in shields and get yourself a small shield, though (esp if you find yourself hunting something that uses bolt spells).
If you can't find the TPs to get the above in addition to your picking skills, you might want to think about switching to ranged sniping. Its lower TP requirements make it generally easier for locksmiths at lower levels (esp triplers). Before you do that though, the following will help...
The HP training tells me you're going to go for the lores as early as possible. However, since you're 3x in all the picking skills, that isn't really necessary and will be detrimental if you intend on hunting at all. You'll already be able to pick about 10 or more levels above yourself (depending on your risk tolerance and what the boxes are coming from) from levels 25ish-60ish without lores. This means you'll be able to get all your own boxes and won't need lores at all unless you're pushing your limits picking for someone else.
I'd recommend not going for the lores at all unless you get to level 50 and decide to keep going. It will be much easier to pick them up at that level and scrolls with 403/404 (which you already have enough training to invoke) aren't hard to come by for the few times you'll need them.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
As for skills, if you're going to be hunting at all you're going to want at least 2x in S&H no matter what you choose as your weapon (including your fists). Rogues are designed to take advantage of the stance pushdown/critical weighting added to attacks from hiding to allow them to kill quickly. Esp if you intend on using UAC, you'll quickly find it extremely difficult to kill anything fast enough to avoid dying regularly if you can't utilize the shadows.
If you're going to only 1x in CM, you're also going to want to pick up 1x or more in Ambush. Rogues don't have the luxury of allowing for the luck of the draw to determine what body part is hit like warriors and monks do. If you stick with UAC, you're going to want to either aim directly for the head with critters that aren't too tall or aim for their leg when switch to the head if they're too tall to target their head while they're standing.
It looks like you're trying to use UAC with both hands open to avoid the MM penalty for holding a shield, which I can understand. I'm not sure how much longer this will be viable with a rogue, though. So long as you're not having problems getting hit, go with it. You might eventually want to pick up .5x-1x in shields and get yourself a small shield, though (esp if you find yourself hunting something that uses bolt spells).
If you can't find the TPs to get the above in addition to your picking skills, you might want to think about switching to ranged sniping. Its lower TP requirements make it generally easier for locksmiths at lower levels (esp triplers). Before you do that though, the following will help...
The HP training tells me you're going to go for the lores as early as possible. However, since you're 3x in all the picking skills, that isn't really necessary and will be detrimental if you intend on hunting at all. You'll already be able to pick about 10 or more levels above yourself (depending on your risk tolerance and what the boxes are coming from) from levels 25ish-60ish without lores. This means you'll be able to get all your own boxes and won't need lores at all unless you're pushing your limits picking for someone else.
I'd recommend not going for the lores at all unless you get to level 50 and decide to keep going. It will be much easier to pick them up at that level and scrolls with 403/404 (which you already have enough training to invoke) aren't hard to come by for the few times you'll need them.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GLEWT
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 12:01 PM CDT
Thanks so much for the feedback. I didn't think about using 403/404 scrolls and will definitely back off the HP. I kind of expected to need to add in shields and while browsing the pawnshop found a cheap breastplate (so upped my armor) and cheap 4x shield so added 1x shield. I've thought about the ranged route as an option to save some TPs so may give these suggestions a go before pushing that way.
Thanks again. I always seem to abandon my rogues about this point (don't know how many I've started and deactivated, etc).
Thanks again. I always seem to abandon my rogues about this point (don't know how many I've started and deactivated, etc).
GLEWT
OM1E5GA
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 12:31 PM CDT
<Is 1x ambush enough? Or do I need to push for 2x?>
1x should be enough long term when combined with your CM.... though you might want to train more in the short term to get your aiming up to snuff quicker.
<while browsing the pawnshop found a cheap breastplate (so upped my armor)>
Leather breastplate is good once you have the training for it but doesn't offer significantly more protection then doubles. If you're working towards brig, it's not a bad idea to wear until you can get into the heavier armor since you already have it, though.
However, metal breastplate prolly won't be something you'll be able to use without severe penalties until much further down the road. Most rogues don't get into armor that heavy until near/post cap and brig should suit you nicely unless you end up going above your target level of 50 (I started wearing brig at level 30 and it still works great at level 75).
<I always seem to abandon my rogues about this point (don't know how many I've started and deactivated, etc).>
I'm the same way with bards.... I just can't figure them out.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
1x should be enough long term when combined with your CM.... though you might want to train more in the short term to get your aiming up to snuff quicker.
<while browsing the pawnshop found a cheap breastplate (so upped my armor)>
Leather breastplate is good once you have the training for it but doesn't offer significantly more protection then doubles. If you're working towards brig, it's not a bad idea to wear until you can get into the heavier armor since you already have it, though.
However, metal breastplate prolly won't be something you'll be able to use without severe penalties until much further down the road. Most rogues don't get into armor that heavy until near/post cap and brig should suit you nicely unless you end up going above your target level of 50 (I started wearing brig at level 30 and it still works great at level 75).
<I always seem to abandon my rogues about this point (don't know how many I've started and deactivated, etc).>
I'm the same way with bards.... I just can't figure them out.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GLEWT
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 12:36 PM CDT
Is UAC going to have the same oomph for hunting power as edged? Looking quickly I can see even at my level, switching to edged from Brawling will give me 38 ptps back. Seems like long term that could make a significant difference if they are comparable along the way.
OM1E5GA
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 02:01 PM CDT
If you're ambushing from hiding, their effectiveness is pretty much even so long as a critter isn't particularly vulnerable or resistant to one of the relevant crit tables. The main difference (aside from the TP cost) will be that with UAC the head will be where you'll want to aim while with OHE, you'll most likely want to use a dagger and go for the eyes once you can hit them reliably (the head is easier to hit, the eyes can guarantee a crit kill on the puncture table with a high enough endroll).
The determining factors for you will be how much you want/need the TPs and personal preference.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
The determining factors for you will be how much you want/need the TPs and personal preference.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GLEWT
Re: Locksmith
10/30/2016 08:11 PM CDT
Thanks again for the feedback. Sticking with UAC and adjusting to go down to doubles after grabbing a set of 4x from EG. Worst case scenario I use my fixskills and fix it later if I want to switch weapon style and find myself needing those points.
RATHBONER
Re: Locksmith
10/31/2016 06:21 AM CDT
Set your stats for Training Points rather than growth. DEX will mean you'll be able to pick about 5 levels higher in the early levels as well as not being so badly squeezed on training and AGI will mean you can avoid training shield.
2x plus lore allows picking practically everything to level, 3x plus lore to 50% over level. Some regions and some critters have much easier boxes than others, so there will be places you can go well over that but it might get painful finding out where they are (Some 70-80 level critters have boxes that are pickable at level 20, giants normally have trivial locks compared to nearby undead, etc.)
I got to level 70 ambushing with a fist scythe before UAC and with only 1x S&H and 1x ambush. That was pushing it and I did need to start adding more ranks then anyway, but the removal of fu meant I was no longer viable in the open and I did go to 2x S&H and 1.5x ambush at that point. You will need S&H and ambush, but I suspect you can get to level 50 before you need to go over 1x hiding. (Giants in Icemule were pretty easy to hide on and pretty common up to that level)
I got to level 40 before I needed to go over 2x dodge, and I did it by adding more dodge rather than using a shield. I was closing in on full 3x dodge when I had to switch to hiding, and dropped dodge back to 2.5x to get the points. 80-cap I was 2.5x dodge, 2x S&H, 1.5x ambush. I think the biggest source of weakness in my training at cap was actually 1x CM, but the points to go over that get really expensive when 3x in smith skills. No shield, ever (apart from stunman reps).
If you aren't going to be looking at boxes that you can't pick, you don't need much more perception than you already have, but its a good place to store the MTP for lores until you are ready to train those (which will be after the level range you are thinking about at the moment, but not long after, perhaps level 30-40 and picking level 50-60)
Heads and eyes are a good target with weapons, but body shots are pretty deadly with UAC ambush. You might need to leg first with a weapon, when kick abdomen is an immediate kill with UAC.
2x plus lore allows picking practically everything to level, 3x plus lore to 50% over level. Some regions and some critters have much easier boxes than others, so there will be places you can go well over that but it might get painful finding out where they are (Some 70-80 level critters have boxes that are pickable at level 20, giants normally have trivial locks compared to nearby undead, etc.)
I got to level 70 ambushing with a fist scythe before UAC and with only 1x S&H and 1x ambush. That was pushing it and I did need to start adding more ranks then anyway, but the removal of fu meant I was no longer viable in the open and I did go to 2x S&H and 1.5x ambush at that point. You will need S&H and ambush, but I suspect you can get to level 50 before you need to go over 1x hiding. (Giants in Icemule were pretty easy to hide on and pretty common up to that level)
I got to level 40 before I needed to go over 2x dodge, and I did it by adding more dodge rather than using a shield. I was closing in on full 3x dodge when I had to switch to hiding, and dropped dodge back to 2.5x to get the points. 80-cap I was 2.5x dodge, 2x S&H, 1.5x ambush. I think the biggest source of weakness in my training at cap was actually 1x CM, but the points to go over that get really expensive when 3x in smith skills. No shield, ever (apart from stunman reps).
If you aren't going to be looking at boxes that you can't pick, you don't need much more perception than you already have, but its a good place to store the MTP for lores until you are ready to train those (which will be after the level range you are thinking about at the moment, but not long after, perhaps level 30-40 and picking level 50-60)
Heads and eyes are a good target with weapons, but body shots are pretty deadly with UAC ambush. You might need to leg first with a weapon, when kick abdomen is an immediate kill with UAC.
RATHBONER
Re: Locksmith
10/31/2016 06:36 AM CDT
>Is 1x ambush enough? Or do I need to push for 2x?
It depends how much you want to uphunt. If you don't have enough ambush for the level difference, stance pushdown suffers and ambushing becomes ineffective. At high level with UAC I reckoned 1.5x was the minimum I wanted to work with, and while I managed with 1x at low level, that was fist scythe rather than UAC and sticking to pretty blind targets.
1x at level 20 should allow aimed UAC attacks, but if you might need more if you want to aim decently before then
It depends how much you want to uphunt. If you don't have enough ambush for the level difference, stance pushdown suffers and ambushing becomes ineffective. At high level with UAC I reckoned 1.5x was the minimum I wanted to work with, and while I managed with 1x at low level, that was fist scythe rather than UAC and sticking to pretty blind targets.
1x at level 20 should allow aimed UAC attacks, but if you might need more if you want to aim decently before then
GLEWT
Re: Locksmith
10/31/2016 07:55 PM CDT
Thank you thank you thank you. I am pretty happy with the way my stats came out based on the TPs I ended up with. I had set them for stats while disregarding specific stats (like Dex) and liked better what I came with. Going with 2x hiding and 1x ambush and has been going well so far.
I figure if I'm not too happy in a few trains I can always fixskills out of my training path.
I figure if I'm not too happy in a few trains I can always fixskills out of my training path.
