I have a two handed rogue. I sneak a lot, and I train in armor evasion, dodging, and armor. Is there a guideline to the type of armor I should be using for her? Thoughts and suggestions are super welcome on this.
Thanks.
BECNEWC
OM1E5GA
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
07/20/2016 10:14 PM CDT
There aren't a lot of THW rogues out there, so I doubt there will be much in the way of consensus on an exact ASG you should use... but I'll try to help with some guidance.
I'd say at a minimum you'll want to be in brig. There have been some very successful rogues that only used lower ASG armor, but they usually use faster weapons or are ranged snipers.
The most important factor for how much higher then brig you go will be exactly how much you rely on hiding for your defense.
If you consider staying in the shadows to be vital to your defense, you probably won't want to go much above brig since the heavier the armor the harder it is to get into and stay in the shadows. This is especially true if you make heavy use of the cman VANISH.
On the other hand, if you're mostly only using the shadows to AMBUSH your prey and spend a lot of time out in the open while in RT, you want to seriously consider going up to hauberk or metal breastplate. Anything more would likely be a post-cap goal unless you're prepared to make sacrifices elsewhere...
In general, higher ASG armors will help you survive hits when they happen and help you more against CS based spells, but more vulnerable to maneuvers, hinder your CMANs more, and make anything sneaky more difficult. Conversely, lower ASG armors will be easier for sneaky characters, hinder your CMANs less, and make it easier to avoid critter maneuvers, but make you more vulnerable when something does get lucky and smacks you with their weapon.
To sum it up: If you're getting hit a lot you'll want a higher ASG armor, but if you're rarely getting hit and/or rely heavily on the shadows stick to a lower ASG.
Starchitin
PS If you post your level and current training, it would be easier to be more specific.
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'd say at a minimum you'll want to be in brig. There have been some very successful rogues that only used lower ASG armor, but they usually use faster weapons or are ranged snipers.
The most important factor for how much higher then brig you go will be exactly how much you rely on hiding for your defense.
If you consider staying in the shadows to be vital to your defense, you probably won't want to go much above brig since the heavier the armor the harder it is to get into and stay in the shadows. This is especially true if you make heavy use of the cman VANISH.
On the other hand, if you're mostly only using the shadows to AMBUSH your prey and spend a lot of time out in the open while in RT, you want to seriously consider going up to hauberk or metal breastplate. Anything more would likely be a post-cap goal unless you're prepared to make sacrifices elsewhere...
In general, higher ASG armors will help you survive hits when they happen and help you more against CS based spells, but more vulnerable to maneuvers, hinder your CMANs more, and make anything sneaky more difficult. Conversely, lower ASG armors will be easier for sneaky characters, hinder your CMANs less, and make it easier to avoid critter maneuvers, but make you more vulnerable when something does get lucky and smacks you with their weapon.
To sum it up: If you're getting hit a lot you'll want a higher ASG armor, but if you're rarely getting hit and/or rely heavily on the shadows stick to a lower ASG.
Starchitin
PS If you post your level and current training, it would be easier to be more specific.
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
07/21/2016 11:38 PM CDT
My suggestion is that whether you want metallic or scale or leather armor, that you get a set that covers the full body: Hauberk, Brigandine, etc. That way, assuming that you are fully trained for the armor in question, you can use enhancives located anywhere on the body.
For example, both Hauberk and MBP require similar armor training to remove any combat penalties. However, if you use MBP, you can't wear enhancives anywhere except on the torso, without changing the AsG. An enhancive helmet would turn your MBP into full plate as far as the armor training needed to use it without penalty.
I'm currently in 6x HCP hauberk, with no plans to ever get into plate class.
If violence doesn't solve your problem,
you aren't using enough of it.
For example, both Hauberk and MBP require similar armor training to remove any combat penalties. However, if you use MBP, you can't wear enhancives anywhere except on the torso, without changing the AsG. An enhancive helmet would turn your MBP into full plate as far as the armor training needed to use it without penalty.
I'm currently in 6x HCP hauberk, with no plans to ever get into plate class.
If violence doesn't solve your problem,
you aren't using enough of it.
ROLFARD
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
07/28/2016 07:33 PM CDT
My rogue went brig ASAP. Then a big jump directly to MBP. Finally in full plate (post cap). Initially was ambush/TWC/OHE, moved into ambush/ranged, is currently ambush/UAC/brawl+shield.
BECNEWC
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/07/2016 01:23 AM CDT
Sorry for the late reply. I'm awful at checking the forums (is there a way to enable email notifications for replies? I don't see it in the options).
Anyway I'm level 15 currently (Need guidance in how to proceed in the guild as well... just joined and paid my first dues), but more relevant to the question, my stats are as such:
Name: Elleanour Race: Half-Elf Profession: Rogue (shown as: Smuggler)
Gender: Female Age: 121 Expr: 290028 Level: 15
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 65 (7) ... 65 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Agility (AGI): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Discipline (DIS): 93 (16) ... 93 (16)
Aura (AUR): 73 (11) ... 73 (11)
Logic (LOG): 57 (3) ... 57 (3)
Intuition (INT): 57 (3) ... 57 (3)
Wisdom (WIS): 27 (-11) ... 27 (-11)
Influence (INF): 34 (-3) ... 34 (-3)
My skills are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 124 32
Combat Maneuvers...................| 40 8
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 124 32
Ambush.............................| 74 16
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 74 16
Dodging............................| 74 16
Harness Power......................| 15 3
Elemental Mana Control.............| 15 3
Spirit Mana Control................| 10 2
Survival...........................| 40 8
Disarming Traps....................| 128 34
Picking Locks......................| 128 34
Stalking and Hiding................| 74 16
Perception.........................| 148 48
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 30 6
First Aid..........................| 40 8
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 1
I try to hide when I can and ambush, but with the THW, my RT is always at least 5, especially if I don't have a spell up. I try not to keep extra stuff on me, but without the spell up, I'm can get to 6 sec RT very quickly regardless. Current armor is ornate imflass helm, some darkened cuirbouilli leather, some etched mithril arm greaves, and some ornate imflass leg greaves.
OM1E5GA
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/07/2016 06:05 AM CDT
First off, I'd recommend saving your bounty points for a potion to reassign your stats once you get near cap. They're good for lower levels, but with three of them already maxed out at level 15 you're going to have several of them that don't even get close to maxing out. That's WAY down the road though and your two lowest stats aren't hugely important for a rogue.
For the more immediate concerns, with any THW weapon you swing your RT won't go below 5 seconds without using either QUICKSTRIKE or having Haste on. Since Haste has been made self-cast only and is a level 35 spell now, I doubt there's much likelihood of using that unless you get super lucky and find an auction quality item with it. QUICKSTRIKE should be a valid option for you though, esp if you find a wizard to imbed a few items with Celerity (506) for you.
To keep your RT and encumbrance down longer, you can ditch the arm greaves unless they have an enhansive effect you can't live without (your cuirbouilli already covers that area so they aren't doing anything for you). With your Armor Use where it is, you've trained off the RT penalty and minimized the AP penalty for brig. Moving into a nice set of brig armor will allow you to ditch the leg greaves and helm as well, which should make up for the difference in weight between cuirbouilli and brig (esp of you get a merchant to lighten the brig a time or two).
It's also important to note that armor accessories (helms, greaves, etc) always add to encumbrance where standard ASG armor that you're trained for won't unless it's heavier then the base weight listed on the Wiki. Further, if your armor has been lightened enough it can actually reduce your encumbrance when worn.
Whether of not you move from brig into hauberk in the future will be a personal choice, many rogues go all the way up to cap in brig with no problems. If you find yourself dying from crits a lot or having to end hunts early due to them, you might want to make the switch. The same goes if you find yourself fighting a lot of critters that cast spiritual spells, since your low WIS will hurt your spirit TD and heavier armor can help make up for that with a better CvA.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
For the more immediate concerns, with any THW weapon you swing your RT won't go below 5 seconds without using either QUICKSTRIKE or having Haste on. Since Haste has been made self-cast only and is a level 35 spell now, I doubt there's much likelihood of using that unless you get super lucky and find an auction quality item with it. QUICKSTRIKE should be a valid option for you though, esp if you find a wizard to imbed a few items with Celerity (506) for you.
To keep your RT and encumbrance down longer, you can ditch the arm greaves unless they have an enhansive effect you can't live without (your cuirbouilli already covers that area so they aren't doing anything for you). With your Armor Use where it is, you've trained off the RT penalty and minimized the AP penalty for brig. Moving into a nice set of brig armor will allow you to ditch the leg greaves and helm as well, which should make up for the difference in weight between cuirbouilli and brig (esp of you get a merchant to lighten the brig a time or two).
It's also important to note that armor accessories (helms, greaves, etc) always add to encumbrance where standard ASG armor that you're trained for won't unless it's heavier then the base weight listed on the Wiki. Further, if your armor has been lightened enough it can actually reduce your encumbrance when worn.
Whether of not you move from brig into hauberk in the future will be a personal choice, many rogues go all the way up to cap in brig with no problems. If you find yourself dying from crits a lot or having to end hunts early due to them, you might want to make the switch. The same goes if you find yourself fighting a lot of critters that cast spiritual spells, since your low WIS will hurt your spirit TD and heavier armor can help make up for that with a better CvA.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RATHBONER
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/07/2016 07:08 AM CDT
> (Need guidance in how to proceed in the guild as well... just joined and paid my first dues)
Wait till level 20 to start serious guild work, there's a discount on points required when you have low ranks for your level that doesn't kick in till then, so it takes a lot more work to advance during levels 15-19.
There's an evening when guild work counts double. Being in the Landing is pretty much required for partner reps.
Pick a couple of skills to concentrate on, most of them aren't a lot of use till you are mastered. I think most people go sweep and stunman. If you are serious about picking, then gradually picking up LM ranks is a good thing too. Unlike the other skills LM adds value all the way.
...
There's a lot of armor, a lot of MOC, not much CM, not much ambush and not much hiding in your training. (a lot of perception too, but I reckon getting to 50 ranks fast is a good thing if picking)
RT should be at least 6 when ambushing with a THW (it will only be 5 if attacking from hiding rather than ambushing).
Wait till level 20 to start serious guild work, there's a discount on points required when you have low ranks for your level that doesn't kick in till then, so it takes a lot more work to advance during levels 15-19.
There's an evening when guild work counts double. Being in the Landing is pretty much required for partner reps.
Pick a couple of skills to concentrate on, most of them aren't a lot of use till you are mastered. I think most people go sweep and stunman. If you are serious about picking, then gradually picking up LM ranks is a good thing too. Unlike the other skills LM adds value all the way.
...
There's a lot of armor, a lot of MOC, not much CM, not much ambush and not much hiding in your training. (a lot of perception too, but I reckon getting to 50 ranks fast is a good thing if picking)
RT should be at least 6 when ambushing with a THW (it will only be 5 if attacking from hiding rather than ambushing).
BECNEWC
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/07/2016 09:04 PM CDT
Thanks for being so helpful everyone! I really appreciate it.
This has given me a lot of information to work with.
This has given me a lot of information to work with.
OM1E5GA
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/07/2016 09:27 PM CDT
I'm happy to help where I'm able. GS has enough features that even after 20 years I'm still not good enough to offer advice on everything though.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
PFLATS
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/08/2016 12:01 PM CDT
>For the more immediate concerns, with any THW weapon you swing your RT won't go below 5 seconds without using either QUICKSTRIKE or having Haste on. Since Haste has been made self-cast only and is a level 35 spell now, I doubt there's much likelihood of using that unless you get super lucky and find an auction quality item with it. QUICKSTRIKE should be a valid option for you though, esp if you find a wizard to imbed a few items with Celerity (506) for you.
Haste (535) has no effect whatsoever on swinging a weapon. Only Celerity does.
Haste (535) has no effect whatsoever on swinging a weapon. Only Celerity does.
OM1E5GA
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/08/2016 01:41 PM CDT
<<Haste (535) has no effect whatsoever on swinging a weapon. Only Celerity does.>>
Too many changes to keep track of with that profession, esp since I rarely play my wizard. I'm just glad I never relied on Haste like so many used to...if they ever make Strength self cast only they'll be dealing with a mighty annoyed gnome though.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Too many changes to keep track of with that profession, esp since I rarely play my wizard. I'm just glad I never relied on Haste like so many used to...if they ever make Strength self cast only they'll be dealing with a mighty annoyed gnome though.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/10/2016 12:58 AM CDT
I'm not sure why you want to go with THWs. You aren't a warrior going toe to toe with the enemy. Speed and stealth are your fortes. An accurate head or neck shot from ambush with a dagger will kill just as well as banging something over the head with a maul.
Cmans I have are Stealth mastery, vanish, Asp stance, dirtkick, diveert, punch mastery, and quickstrike. I use UAC for attacking.
Some guild skills are more useful than others. Very few high level critters can be subdued, but sweep, kneebash and throatchop are often useful.
Lock mastery reps are the absolute worst. I have mastered all the other skills, but have only 30 ranks in LM.
Cmans I have are Stealth mastery, vanish, Asp stance, dirtkick, diveert, punch mastery, and quickstrike. I use UAC for attacking.
Some guild skills are more useful than others. Very few high level critters can be subdued, but sweep, kneebash and throatchop are often useful.
Lock mastery reps are the absolute worst. I have mastered all the other skills, but have only 30 ranks in LM.
OM1E5GA
Re: Armor for my Rogue (THW)
08/10/2016 10:56 AM CDT
<Lock mastery reps are the absolute worst. I have mastered all the other skills, but have only 30 ranks in LM.>
At least Lock Mastery doesn't have the brick wall that is partner reps. Finding the right boxes might be a pain sometimes, but at least it's possible to do something about getting them. Finding a partner for the rest of the skills is a royal pain in the Landing and can take weeks or months in most other towns.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
At least Lock Mastery doesn't have the brick wall that is partner reps. Finding the right boxes might be a pain sometimes, but at least it's possible to do something about getting them. Finding a partner for the rest of the skills is a royal pain in the Landing and can take weeks or months in most other towns.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/10/2016 04:29 PM CDT
OK, I hid successfully on this guy, and was ready to ambush when he cast something which I presume was some sort of AOE spell. I wasn't revealed from hiding and indeed got off a successful ambush strike, but he came close to warding me. I haven't seen them do this before, so it's either something new that they have been given recently, or something that they cast extremely rarely. Anyone recognize the spell?
>stance def
>hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A minotaur magus gestures mystically!
A minotaur magus draws a large sign in the air before him...
Spirits begin to swirl around you.
CS: +339 - TD: +284 + CvA: -9 + d100: +42 - -5 == +93
Warded off!
H>stance offen
> punch right leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a minotaur magus!
You have good positioning against a minotaur magus.
UAF: 477 vs UDF: 374 = 1.275 * MM: 105 + d100: 45 = 178
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with right shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The minotaur magus is knocked to the ground!
The minotaur magus is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>stance def
>hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A minotaur magus gestures mystically!
A minotaur magus draws a large sign in the air before him...
Spirits begin to swirl around you.
CS: +339 - TD: +284 + CvA: -9 + d100: +42 - -5 == +93
Warded off!
H>stance offen
> punch right leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a minotaur magus!
You have good positioning against a minotaur magus.
UAF: 477 vs UDF: 374 = 1.275 * MM: 105 + d100: 45 = 178
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with right shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The minotaur magus is knocked to the ground!
The minotaur magus is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
MOURNE
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/10/2016 05:33 PM CDT
>Spirits begin to swirl around you.
Looks like Interference.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Interference_(212)
---
Cendadric says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 110 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "Do I detect... sarcasm? Surely not."
Looks like Interference.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Interference_(212)
---
Cendadric says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 110 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "Do I detect... sarcasm? Surely not."
THROGG
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/12/2016 01:25 AM CDT
I was thinking it sounded like interference, but that is single target, not area effect spell. I was hidden when he cast it, so he couldn't have targetted me, yet I had to make a save, almost as though it was an AOE effect. Very odd. Also I have never seen a magus cast that spell before, and I've been hunting them for a while.
THROGG
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/12/2016 01:27 AM CDT
Unless it was a time delay thing; maybe he cast the spell while I was in the open, but the message didn't appear until after I was hidden?
RATHBONER
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/12/2016 06:33 AM CDT
Its the AoE version, 217, Mass Interference. Its liable to drop you from hiding (I'm not sure if there's another check to see if you can stay hidden, but my memory is that I have always been forced out of hiding on the few occasions its hit me.)
You probably see it a lot more than others because hiding removes most other actions they might make.
...
You might find it worthwhile to go for an immediate kill rather than legging them, they are pretty squishy. I used to use an unaimed punch when the head was out of reach and I only expected good position, or punch abdomen when I expected excellent. Kick abdomen may be a better choice for the initial shot.
THROGG
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/12/2016 11:04 PM CDT
"You might find it worthwhile to go for an immediate kill rather than legging them, they are pretty squishy"
Oh, I usually went right for a head shot when I first started hunting there. Then I graduated to the Bowels; everything there except for the krynches needs to be legged first before going for a head shot. I was slumming a bit when I did this hunt, and was using my Bowels hunting macros. Yeah, minos are short enough that you can go right for the head or neck.
Ah so the spell is mass interference. OK, I had totally forgotten that spell even existed. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Oh, I usually went right for a head shot when I first started hunting there. Then I graduated to the Bowels; everything there except for the krynches needs to be legged first before going for a head shot. I was slumming a bit when I did this hunt, and was using my Bowels hunting macros. Yeah, minos are short enough that you can go right for the head or neck.
Ah so the spell is mass interference. OK, I had totally forgotten that spell even existed. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
RATHBONER
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/13/2016 07:13 AM CDT
> Yeah, minos are short enough that you can go right for the head or neck.
You can. A halfling can't.
The neck isn't particularly vulnerable to UAC. Its only a worthwhile target area when silencing is better than stunning on a non-fatal shot. This would apply for a grizzled magus, but I can't think of much else where neck is better than abdomen.
You can. A halfling can't.
The neck isn't particularly vulnerable to UAC. Its only a worthwhile target area when silencing is better than stunning on a non-fatal shot. This would apply for a grizzled magus, but I can't think of much else where neck is better than abdomen.
THROGG
Re: Speaking of ambush hunting: What the heck spell is this?
08/13/2016 11:53 PM CDT
"You can. A halfling can't."
Short people
don't deserve
to live ...
Short people
don't deserve
to live ...
