Hey,
This is a new char for me. I'm interested in learning how UAC and ambushing work together. I couldn't find a post about how it's best approached. I've heard it's great, but as far as mechanics or what commands I need to use i.e. Ambush critter left leg or grapple critter head etc..
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
ETHANW924
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/27/2016 03:46 PM CST
IIRC, you just use the normal jab/punch/kick/grapple from hiding and it automatically tiers you up for the first hit.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Like men we'll face the murderous, cowardly pack,
>Pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back!
AIM: GS4Menos
>Like men we'll face the murderous, cowardly pack,
>Pressed to the wall, dying, but fighting back!
RATHBONER
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/28/2016 04:57 AM CST
Its not an automatic tier, just a strong chance of one. Uphunting will increase the chance of whiffing on it and I suspect being less than fully trained in ambush will too. 2x ambush and like level its virtually automatic. Occasionally you'll whiff it and get decent, occasionally you'll get lucky and get excellent.
You use the normal command e.g. "punch critter left leg" but while in hiding. There's no equivalent to the ambush command with UAC. If you have a target location set you are aiming, and if you don't, you aren't.
The best initial knockdown is punch leg.
The best kill shots are punch/kick head (they work at good position, while all other kill shots require excellent)
One big difference to weaponry ambush is the ease of torso kills. If you expect your next ambush to be at excellent, punch abdomen if you can't reach the head rather than going for a knockdown.
Another big difference is that UAC stacks to a crit kill where weaponry crits out. e.g. it requires a rank 8 crit on punch head to get an immediate crit kill, but two rank 7s stack to a kill while ambush head with a weapon would leave the head unable to be targetted on the followup shot if you didn't quite get a kill with the first. Even jabs can crit kill by stacking.
Unless you are trying to be fancy, almost every attack should be a punch. One exception is if you whiff the tier but get an opening for kick or grapple on the first ambush, it is likely to pay to use the opening with the second. Another is heavily armored critters where it may pay to kick.
If you haven't used ambushing before, you should be aware that its takes several levels before you can be effective at it and you'll need to avoid aiming for the first 10 levels or so, and will have trouble hiding too. You can still get the ambush tier without aiming so just "punch critter" if you are missing openings on "punch critter left leg".
You use the normal command e.g. "punch critter left leg" but while in hiding. There's no equivalent to the ambush command with UAC. If you have a target location set you are aiming, and if you don't, you aren't.
The best initial knockdown is punch leg.
The best kill shots are punch/kick head (they work at good position, while all other kill shots require excellent)
One big difference to weaponry ambush is the ease of torso kills. If you expect your next ambush to be at excellent, punch abdomen if you can't reach the head rather than going for a knockdown.
Another big difference is that UAC stacks to a crit kill where weaponry crits out. e.g. it requires a rank 8 crit on punch head to get an immediate crit kill, but two rank 7s stack to a kill while ambush head with a weapon would leave the head unable to be targetted on the followup shot if you didn't quite get a kill with the first. Even jabs can crit kill by stacking.
Unless you are trying to be fancy, almost every attack should be a punch. One exception is if you whiff the tier but get an opening for kick or grapple on the first ambush, it is likely to pay to use the opening with the second. Another is heavily armored critters where it may pay to kick.
If you haven't used ambushing before, you should be aware that its takes several levels before you can be effective at it and you'll need to avoid aiming for the first 10 levels or so, and will have trouble hiding too. You can still get the ambush tier without aiming so just "punch critter" if you are missing openings on "punch critter left leg".
ETHANW924
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/28/2016 04:24 PM CST
Thank you all for your help!
Hope it works out well!
Hope it works out well!
THEOPHILUS
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/28/2016 08:40 PM CST
Is there any kind of guide on rogue ambushing UAC that can help with armor and training priorities? Like what are most of you who's doing it wear?
Thanks
Thanks
MOURNE
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/28/2016 10:19 PM CST
>Is there any kind of guide on rogue ambushing UAC that can help with armor and training priorities? Like what are most of you who's doing it wear?
I don't know of a guide in place currently, but mine is currently in brig (asg 12) and not likely to go higher -- rigid leather treats me pretty well.
My UAC rogue training is laid out thusly, at 55:
Core combat:
2x brawling
2x ambush
2x dodge
2x stalk & hide
1x combat maneuvers (shadow mastery, divert, and vanish so far)
~.5x TWC (for defense)
30 ranks of armor (for brig, will eventually get more for added armored stealth ranks but that's a ways off)
Additionally:
3x picking
3x disarm
2x perception
1.5x PF
30 climb
20 swim
10 arcane symbols
8 harness power
You'll note that my rogue is set up to maximize picking - if that wasn't the case, I'd be dumping more points into CM, S&H and possibly dodge. But I do fine in the field, if not quite as slick as if I had more hiding.
I'm sure this could be tighter, and your goals and comfort zones will differ, but it doesn't take all that much for core ambushing UAC rogue goodness.
For additional reading on tactics, you might find some tidbits here of use:
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Unarmed_combat_advice_(saved_posts)
---
With great effort you combine the value of your two bloodscrip, leaving you with a single parchment bloodscrip valued at 2112.
You think to yourself, "Another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man..."
I don't know of a guide in place currently, but mine is currently in brig (asg 12) and not likely to go higher -- rigid leather treats me pretty well.
My UAC rogue training is laid out thusly, at 55:
Core combat:
2x brawling
2x ambush
2x dodge
2x stalk & hide
1x combat maneuvers (shadow mastery, divert, and vanish so far)
~.5x TWC (for defense)
30 ranks of armor (for brig, will eventually get more for added armored stealth ranks but that's a ways off)
Additionally:
3x picking
3x disarm
2x perception
1.5x PF
30 climb
20 swim
10 arcane symbols
8 harness power
You'll note that my rogue is set up to maximize picking - if that wasn't the case, I'd be dumping more points into CM, S&H and possibly dodge. But I do fine in the field, if not quite as slick as if I had more hiding.
I'm sure this could be tighter, and your goals and comfort zones will differ, but it doesn't take all that much for core ambushing UAC rogue goodness.
For additional reading on tactics, you might find some tidbits here of use:
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Unarmed_combat_advice_(saved_posts)
---
With great effort you combine the value of your two bloodscrip, leaving you with a single parchment bloodscrip valued at 2112.
You think to yourself, "Another toy that helped destroy the elder race of man..."
RATHBONER
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
02/29/2016 11:20 AM CST
Thats pretty much how I trained. (less perception/AS/harness but 404 on the smith side)
Wear the lightest armor you reckon you can get away with, which in my case is chain. Enough post cap and I reckon I will start getting into lighter armor again but with a smith build and only 2x hiding, I got caught in the open enough in the upper levels that I reckon I needed chain. Its worth overtraining armor for the AP reduction as well as the armor skills but don't go past 1x training.
I stuck at 1 rank TWC for defense but have rather more than 2x dodge. At low level 2x dodge and 0.5x TWC will pay, but get enough levels and extra dodge ranks rather than TWC may be preferable. (it depends what sort of thing you are anticipating wanting the DS for. TWC for melee / dodge for bolt, TWC for defensive stance / dodge for offensive stance DS)
Ranks in punch mastery (or kick mastery if you decide you prefer kicking most of the time) are another thing to spend CM points on.
Wear the lightest armor you reckon you can get away with, which in my case is chain. Enough post cap and I reckon I will start getting into lighter armor again but with a smith build and only 2x hiding, I got caught in the open enough in the upper levels that I reckon I needed chain. Its worth overtraining armor for the AP reduction as well as the armor skills but don't go past 1x training.
I stuck at 1 rank TWC for defense but have rather more than 2x dodge. At low level 2x dodge and 0.5x TWC will pay, but get enough levels and extra dodge ranks rather than TWC may be preferable. (it depends what sort of thing you are anticipating wanting the DS for. TWC for melee / dodge for bolt, TWC for defensive stance / dodge for offensive stance DS)
Ranks in punch mastery (or kick mastery if you decide you prefer kicking most of the time) are another thing to spend CM points on.
CAVEMANIAC
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
03/05/2016 05:35 AM CST
Very late to this but kick kills on rank 8 to the chest and abdomen as well as the head, neck and eyes. If you cannot punch heads without a knockdown it would be a very good option. Also, this makes kick mstrikes very deadly.
THROGG
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
03/06/2016 12:36 AM CST
Kick hits harder than punch; the downside is that it's slower. Since I value speed, I went with punch mastery. Hunting like level is most effective; overhunting more than 5 trains screws with your results.
Note: Since you are training in brawling, you can also, for sake of variety, use the old style ambush with brawling weapons. I favor a sai, although fist scythes also hit fairly decently.
Note: Since you are training in brawling, you can also, for sake of variety, use the old style ambush with brawling weapons. I favor a sai, although fist scythes also hit fairly decently.
THROGG
Re: Help with ambushing + UAC
03/06/2016 01:09 AM CST
A recent hunt: helps to have a partner who also is dealing damage, of course.
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke elder!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against an Illoke elder.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 455 = 1.057 * MM: 110 + d100: 27 = 143
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Spinning backfist bruises internal organs.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
Acid strikes the arm leaving nothing but a puddle of melted flesh!
The Illoke elder rumbles in pain as his heavy stone arm falls to the ground!
The elder's granite sledgehammer falls to the ground.
JR>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
The Illoke elder's arm is drenched in acid! Flesh and bones are reduced to a smoking slime!
The Illoke elder rumbles in pain as his heavy stone arm falls to the ground!
HJR>
An Illoke elder blinks dazedly a moment before shaking off the stun!
HJ>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
Acid causes some lower back troubles. Large holes do that.
The Illoke elder is stunned!
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke elder!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against an Illoke elder.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 466 = 1.032 * MM: 125 + d100: 18 = 147
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Fast hooking punch tears a ragged gash across the abdomen!
The Illoke elder grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
An Illoke elder glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
The bright luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
This one is dumb; I grabbed a box and forgot to put it in my disk. Doh! Worked out OK though.
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Spray of acid bites deep into the skin over the sternum.
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke jarl!
Your attack is hindered by holding an engraved steel box!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against an Illoke jarl.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 492 = 0.977 * MM: 91 + d100: 73 = 161
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Cross punch to abdomen drives breath out with a WHOOF!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Acid hole in the ribs makes it hard to breathe. Better get that checked!
JR>hide
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Acid dissolves the knee ligaments. The Illoke jarl's tibia passes his femur in a very unpleasant manner!
J>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
The Illoke jarl screams! The Illoke jarl's right leg is reduced to a puddle of bubbling slime!
HJ>pun head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke jarl!
Your attack is hindered by holding an engraved steel box!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against an Illoke jarl.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 464 = 1.036 * MM: 111 + d100: 56 = 171
... and hit for 52 points of damage!
Awesome punch to forehead snaps head straight back with a sickening CRUNCH!
The Illoke jarl grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
The very powerful look leaves an Illoke jarl.
The white light leaves an Illoke jarl.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an Illoke jarl.
The dim celadon wisps about an Illoke jarl's hands flare up once more and fade completely away.
An Illoke jarl loses the flickering energy surrounding him.
An Illoke jarl seems to lose some focus as his eyes narrow and shift momentarily to one side.
An Illoke jarl appears less battle-ready as a soft glow dissipates from around his form.
The warm glow fades from around an Illoke jarl.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke elder!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against an Illoke elder.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 455 = 1.057 * MM: 110 + d100: 27 = 143
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Spinning backfist bruises internal organs.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
Acid strikes the arm leaving nothing but a puddle of melted flesh!
The Illoke elder rumbles in pain as his heavy stone arm falls to the ground!
The elder's granite sledgehammer falls to the ground.
JR>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
The Illoke elder's arm is drenched in acid! Flesh and bones are reduced to a smoking slime!
The Illoke elder rumbles in pain as his heavy stone arm falls to the ground!
HJR>
An Illoke elder blinks dazedly a moment before shaking off the stun!
HJ>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke elder.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke elder!
A hit!
Acid causes some lower back troubles. Large holes do that.
The Illoke elder is stunned!
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke elder!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against an Illoke elder.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 466 = 1.032 * MM: 125 + d100: 18 = 147
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Fast hooking punch tears a ragged gash across the abdomen!
The Illoke elder grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
An Illoke elder glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
The bright luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an Illoke elder.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
This one is dumb; I grabbed a box and forgot to put it in my disk. Doh! Worked out OK though.
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Spray of acid bites deep into the skin over the sternum.
HJ>pun abd
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke jarl!
Your attack is hindered by holding an engraved steel box!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against an Illoke jarl.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 492 = 0.977 * MM: 91 + d100: 73 = 161
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Cross punch to abdomen drives breath out with a WHOOF!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Acid hole in the ribs makes it hard to breathe. Better get that checked!
JR>hide
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
Acid dissolves the knee ligaments. The Illoke jarl's tibia passes his femur in a very unpleasant manner!
J>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>
Daniels's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
Daniels gestures at an Illoke jarl.
Daniels hurls a hissing stream of acid at an Illoke jarl!
A hit!
The Illoke jarl screams! The Illoke jarl's right leg is reduced to a puddle of bubbling slime!
HJ>pun head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an Illoke jarl!
Your attack is hindered by holding an engraved steel box!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against an Illoke jarl.
UAF: 481 vs UDF: 464 = 1.036 * MM: 111 + d100: 56 = 171
... and hit for 52 points of damage!
Awesome punch to forehead snaps head straight back with a sickening CRUNCH!
The Illoke jarl grumbles in pain one last time before lying still.
The very powerful look leaves an Illoke jarl.
The white light leaves an Illoke jarl.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an Illoke jarl.
The dim celadon wisps about an Illoke jarl's hands flare up once more and fade completely away.
An Illoke jarl loses the flickering energy surrounding him.
An Illoke jarl seems to lose some focus as his eyes narrow and shift momentarily to one side.
An Illoke jarl appears less battle-ready as a soft glow dissipates from around his form.
The warm glow fades from around an Illoke jarl.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
JR>
