Just turned 77 trains, and considering the best way to proceed with certain aspects of training. I'm combat oriented more than locksmithing, which to me is more of a hobby. Using mostly UAC, although on a lightly armored target I sometimes use a sai to the head/neck. Hiding & ambushing are pretty critical, so I'll be training those as much as possible. But what to do about other combat skills? I'm a bit undecided; I'll post what I have so far.
Guennwhfar (at level 77), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1 1
Armor Use..........................| 190 90 90
Shield Use.........................| 195 95 95
Combat Maneuvers...................| 202 102 102
Brawling...........................| 258 158 158
Ambush.............................| 258 158 158
Physical Fitness...................| 222 122 122
Dodging............................| 256 156 156
Arcane Symbols.....................| 74 16 16
Magic Item Use.....................| 74 16 16
Harness Power......................| 54 11 11
Disarming Traps....................| 258 158 158
Picking Locks......................| 258 158 158
Stalking and Hiding................| 287 187 187
Perception.........................| 258 158 158
Climbing...........................| 140 40 40
Swimming...........................| 117 29 29
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 6 6
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1 1
Training Points: 0 Phy 26 Mnt
I'm picking up PF here and there whenever I can, but there are so many other skills I want to get also, it's quite sporadic. Armor will stay where it is for now; I have some nice hauberk. I'm hoping to get more spells also, hopefully up to 414 for use in spell burst areas, but this will probably not happen until post cap. I may be able to fit in 410 before then, though. Right now, I'm considering what to do about CM.
>cman info
Guennwhfar, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Divert divert 4
Vanish vanish 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 10
I use divert so rarely, I'll probably leave this at 4 ranks. Punch mastery seems good enough for general combat so far, so for now I'll pass on kick mastery. I have been considering either dirtkick or dust shroud as possibilities. (I have mastered sweep, stun maneuvers and gambits through the guild, and am up to 45 ranks in subdue and cheapshot, so I won't be doing anything redundant/overlapping those.) I hunt alone 90% of the time, so don't suggest stuff like side-by-side.
>shield info
>
Guennwhfar, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 4
Deflect the Elements deflect 3
Skill Available Shield Training Points: 5
I pick up shield ranks when I can, also sporadically. A 5th rank of Shielded Brawler would only bring a return of +2 MM; I'd rather get something more effective for the TPs spent. Shield bash perhaps? I'd like to get one of the spell stopping shield skills but don't have the necessary anti-magic shield. Conceivably, though, I may find a sorcerer able to ensorsel a buckler for me, so that might be a remote possibility.
Available Shield Training Points: 5
Guennwhfar, your Armor Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Armored Evasion evasion 3
AS mentioned, I am not going further with armor training for quite some time. I went for evasion rather than stealth, to help me duck blows if I get caught in the open. I do notice occasional failures when using vanish, probably due to the armor penalty for hauberk. How much would fixskilling this over to stealth help with this failure rate? Or would I be better off going for a full 3x in S&H and leaving evasion as it is?
THROGG
SOURCE
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/09/2015 09:42 PM CST
evade mastery might be good.
KEITHOBAD
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 01:51 AM CST
Pulled from game:
Armored Stealth
Description: Adjusts a person's armor so that it can help mask their movements. Provides a bonus to Stealth rolls equal to (Rank * 2 * (5 - Armor Group)).
So for hauberk you're only looking at +2/rank, I doubt you would be able to notice much difference even with the full 5 ranks.
Tangential Rant:
I have a real problem with how our armor skills are setup. By actively punishing the wearing of armor, rogue skills become by far the worst of the -ARMOR- skills.
RATHBONER
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 08:10 AM CST
A little bit post cap I have:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 200 100 (130 ranks for MnE hindrance in hauberk/wearing full plate is next target, but not working on it yet and normally in AsG 15)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 201 101
Ranged Weapons.....................| 5 1 (relic to remind me of my crossbow days)
Brawling...........................| 302 202
Ambush.............................| 294 194 (One of my first post cap targets is topping this out)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 70 15
Physical Fitness...................| 247 147 (moving up gradually)
Dodging............................| 362 262 (moving up gradually)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25 (I'd have more if I wanted to get more spellburst rather than pushing for 414)
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 ditto
Harness Power......................| 66 14 (moving up now I have 410 if experimentation shows I want more to power it)
Disarming Traps....................| 370 270 (moving up slowly because I am a smith first and foremost even if it does very little for me)
Picking Locks......................| 403 303
Stalking and Hiding................| 334 234 (was 2x at cap, being pushed strongly till it caps out or I stop being spotted)
Perception.........................| 271 171 (moving up slowly)
Climbing...........................| 176 76
Swimming...........................| 154 54
First Aid..........................| 54 11
Trading............................| 50 10
Pickpocketing......................| 173 73
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10 (all in MnE till 414 because 101 gets 40 charges in a basic imbed)
I'm not sure just where I'd most need to add training to solo bandits, but its not good enough yet. A subdual strike and I am dead because the stun prevents me vanishing and the RT prevents me stun moving and I'm nicked to death before either becomes available.
Vanishing is harder than hiding, there's a penalty to the vanish that depends on armor so in hauberk you need S&H training for vanish well above what you would need for a normal hide. You have enough for Nelemar but you'd want more in the Rift.
90 ranks AU covers you for AsG15 hindrance, I'm not sure why you rate that a good stopping place for AsG 16.
Shields are nasty heavy things. Why carry a shield whan I can carry half a dozen lockpicks instead? However warrior experience says if you are training bash for offensive purposes, reckon on training all 5 ranks, you won't get much out of it unless you do.
For Cmans to train, I'd look at predator, because you don't have a martial stance and thats the ambusher's martial stance. I'm not sure if it actually helps UAC, but it does help your sai. Otherwise I have the same major ones as you plus a few single ranks spread around for utility and defensive reasons.
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 200 100 (130 ranks for MnE hindrance in hauberk/wearing full plate is next target, but not working on it yet and normally in AsG 15)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 201 101
Ranged Weapons.....................| 5 1 (relic to remind me of my crossbow days)
Brawling...........................| 302 202
Ambush.............................| 294 194 (One of my first post cap targets is topping this out)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 70 15
Physical Fitness...................| 247 147 (moving up gradually)
Dodging............................| 362 262 (moving up gradually)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25 (I'd have more if I wanted to get more spellburst rather than pushing for 414)
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 ditto
Harness Power......................| 66 14 (moving up now I have 410 if experimentation shows I want more to power it)
Disarming Traps....................| 370 270 (moving up slowly because I am a smith first and foremost even if it does very little for me)
Picking Locks......................| 403 303
Stalking and Hiding................| 334 234 (was 2x at cap, being pushed strongly till it caps out or I stop being spotted)
Perception.........................| 271 171 (moving up slowly)
Climbing...........................| 176 76
Swimming...........................| 154 54
First Aid..........................| 54 11
Trading............................| 50 10
Pickpocketing......................| 173 73
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10 (all in MnE till 414 because 101 gets 40 charges in a basic imbed)
I'm not sure just where I'd most need to add training to solo bandits, but its not good enough yet. A subdual strike and I am dead because the stun prevents me vanishing and the RT prevents me stun moving and I'm nicked to death before either becomes available.
Vanishing is harder than hiding, there's a penalty to the vanish that depends on armor so in hauberk you need S&H training for vanish well above what you would need for a normal hide. You have enough for Nelemar but you'd want more in the Rift.
90 ranks AU covers you for AsG15 hindrance, I'm not sure why you rate that a good stopping place for AsG 16.
Shields are nasty heavy things. Why carry a shield whan I can carry half a dozen lockpicks instead? However warrior experience says if you are training bash for offensive purposes, reckon on training all 5 ranks, you won't get much out of it unless you do.
For Cmans to train, I'd look at predator, because you don't have a martial stance and thats the ambusher's martial stance. I'm not sure if it actually helps UAC, but it does help your sai. Otherwise I have the same major ones as you plus a few single ranks spread around for utility and defensive reasons.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 12:39 PM CST
I looked at both slippery mind and evasion mastery, and both have bonuses that degrade the heavier your armor. Looks like armor stealth is also pretty weak in that regard. How annoying. Predator's eye already caught my eye; I'm quite ambivalent about it right now. It's is use a bit pricey regarding stamina cost but still thinking about it. Is there a duration on it, and if so what? And where can I find out if it works with UAC? I use sai/fist scythe relatively rarely.
Rathboner: 90 ranks of armor for now to remove the maneuver penalty for hauberk. I won't have spell 410 for quite a while, so currently there really isn't any spell I need to cast in combat. Armor related spell hindrance isn't a consideration at this point. Trading and pickpocketing?? Really?
What about dirt kick vs dust shroud? Dirtkick can be used in defensive but only hits one creature; shroud seems to work in general, but does it need me to go into offensive stance in order for it to work well?
Shield bash was only a thought; not sure if it's worth the bother. I can knock things down by punching their legs off, and they don't recover from that. Well, unless they can regenerate, of course. In any event, it's a shield skill, so separate from CMan issues.
Rathboner: 90 ranks of armor for now to remove the maneuver penalty for hauberk. I won't have spell 410 for quite a while, so currently there really isn't any spell I need to cast in combat. Armor related spell hindrance isn't a consideration at this point. Trading and pickpocketing?? Really?
What about dirt kick vs dust shroud? Dirtkick can be used in defensive but only hits one creature; shroud seems to work in general, but does it need me to go into offensive stance in order for it to work well?
Shield bash was only a thought; not sure if it's worth the bother. I can knock things down by punching their legs off, and they don't recover from that. Well, unless they can regenerate, of course. In any event, it's a shield skill, so separate from CMan issues.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 12:47 PM CST
And of course, evade mastery also gets poorer the heavier your armor. Really, what do they want from us? Rogues should be like monks, and run around protected by T-shirt and a smile?
RATHBONER
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 02:11 PM CST
>Rathboner: 90 ranks of armor for now to remove the maneuver penalty for hauberk. I won't have spell 410 for quite a while, so currently there really isn't any spell I need to cast in combat. Armor related spell hindrance isn't a consideration at this point. Trading and pickpocketing?? Really?
You'll probably find rather more dispells floating around as you level, but its only 70 or 80 ranks for hauberk if you aren't interested in hindrance so you can lose some of that training, (70 for RT, possibly some manoever effect requires 80 but since overtraining counts ranks over 70, I am dubious that there is anything significant that isn't trained for at 70).
I'm a bit low on trading but I never got around to adding another batch and halflings don't get as much out of it as more charismatic races. I really ought to find the points for another batch of ranks. Appraisals can be annoyingly slow with just 10.
>Shield bash was only a thought; not sure if it's worth the bother. I can knock things down by punching their legs off, and they don't recover from that. Well, unless they can regenerate, of course. In any event, it's a shield skill, so separate from CMan issues.
Its a far, far better use of the stamina and RT for my warrior than sweep is for my rogue.
> Predator's eye already caught my eye; I'm quite ambivalent about it right now. It's is use a bit pricey regarding stamina cost but still thinking about it. Is there a duration on it, and if so what?
Its 4 hours or until you switch to a different martial stance. Its only costly if you want to be switching between stances while hunting, otherwise you just refresh it every few hours while resting and its basically free.
You'll probably find rather more dispells floating around as you level, but its only 70 or 80 ranks for hauberk if you aren't interested in hindrance so you can lose some of that training, (70 for RT, possibly some manoever effect requires 80 but since overtraining counts ranks over 70, I am dubious that there is anything significant that isn't trained for at 70).
I'm a bit low on trading but I never got around to adding another batch and halflings don't get as much out of it as more charismatic races. I really ought to find the points for another batch of ranks. Appraisals can be annoyingly slow with just 10.
>Shield bash was only a thought; not sure if it's worth the bother. I can knock things down by punching their legs off, and they don't recover from that. Well, unless they can regenerate, of course. In any event, it's a shield skill, so separate from CMan issues.
Its a far, far better use of the stamina and RT for my warrior than sweep is for my rogue.
> Predator's eye already caught my eye; I'm quite ambivalent about it right now. It's is use a bit pricey regarding stamina cost but still thinking about it. Is there a duration on it, and if so what?
Its 4 hours or until you switch to a different martial stance. Its only costly if you want to be switching between stances while hunting, otherwise you just refresh it every few hours while resting and its basically free.
OM1E5GA
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 03:05 PM CST
<And of course, evade mastery also gets poorer the heavier your armor. Really, what do they want from us? Rogues should be like monks, and run around protected by T-shirt and a smile?>
It's probably because rogues are expected to be training in things that help them avoid getting hit in the first place, unlike warriors that just stand out in the open and trade blows with their foes. Using armor that gives a penalty to these skills will help more when you get hit, but you'll also get hit more often. Using lighter armor should mean you get far less often if you make effective use of your cman/shield skills, and will help you avoid maneuvers much easier (which are the root cause of most deaths above level 30 or so anyway).
There's no need to go all the way down to cloth armor though, my little rogue does quite well in brig with stealth mastery and effective use of VANISH.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
It's probably because rogues are expected to be training in things that help them avoid getting hit in the first place, unlike warriors that just stand out in the open and trade blows with their foes. Using armor that gives a penalty to these skills will help more when you get hit, but you'll also get hit more often. Using lighter armor should mean you get far less often if you make effective use of your cman/shield skills, and will help you avoid maneuvers much easier (which are the root cause of most deaths above level 30 or so anyway).
There's no need to go all the way down to cloth armor though, my little rogue does quite well in brig with stealth mastery and effective use of VANISH.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
SOURCE
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 03:36 PM CST
Double leather works for me. 21 percent is pretty wonderful.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 03:42 PM CST
>> I am dubious that there is anything significant that isn't trained for at 70).<<
You need 90 ranks to get the third rank of Armor Evasion.
You need 90 ranks to get the third rank of Armor Evasion.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 03:59 PM CST
>>Its a far, far better use of the stamina and RT for my warrior than sweep is for my rogue.<<
Your warrior can 3x in Fitness, and will have a lot more stamina than my rogue. Also, sweep is learned via the Guild, and doesn't cost me any CM points. I have had some decent results using sweep also, against the proper target. Some things are almost impossible to sweep, others go down easy. For example, I found yetis almost impossible to sweep at all, while they went down stunned to a single leg shot. Meanwhile, dwellers (located in the same area) were easy to sweep, despite being resistant to a number of other things. Only experience gives me that sort of knowledge.
My consideration that shield bash might be redundant was due to the fact that I can just ambush and punch something's leg off and knock it down. The fact that you say less than a full 5 ranks is not effective puts me off even more.
I'm really curious to get an evaluation of dirt kick vs dust shroud.
Your warrior can 3x in Fitness, and will have a lot more stamina than my rogue. Also, sweep is learned via the Guild, and doesn't cost me any CM points. I have had some decent results using sweep also, against the proper target. Some things are almost impossible to sweep, others go down easy. For example, I found yetis almost impossible to sweep at all, while they went down stunned to a single leg shot. Meanwhile, dwellers (located in the same area) were easy to sweep, despite being resistant to a number of other things. Only experience gives me that sort of knowledge.
My consideration that shield bash might be redundant was due to the fact that I can just ambush and punch something's leg off and knock it down. The fact that you say less than a full 5 ranks is not effective puts me off even more.
I'm really curious to get an evaluation of dirt kick vs dust shroud.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/10/2015 04:04 PM CST
As for armors; I have two nice sets. 6x brig with HCP and 6x Hauberk, also with HCP. It's a bit of a toss up. I hide/evade better with the brig, but survive hits better in hauberk. I'm using the hauberk more right now because of the better CvA, but this could be situational. If I'm not hunting anything that casts warding spells, I might be tempted to go back to brig.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 02:55 PM CST
Well, I went and picked up 3 ranks of dirtkick; I figured I might as well, since I need 3 ranks anyway to start training in dust shroud. Krag dwellers are 6 trains below me; I was headed to the labyrinth and decided to try out my new skill on something relatively easy. The results were rather underwhelming.
>>A krag dweller stands up with a grunt.
>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>cman dirtkick
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 123 (open d100: 45) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a krag dweller!
Score! Direct hit to a krag dweller's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a krag dweller!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a krag dweller.
UAF: 439 vs UDF: 327 = 1.342 * MM: 99 + d100: 61 = 193
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
Furious fast fist forces fibula fracture! Foot flies free, falling forward five feet forth!
A krag dweller crashes to the ground as its left leg is shattered into just so much rubble!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The redness leaves a krag dweller's eyes.
R>
A krag dweller pounds at you with its fist!
AS: +334 vs DS: +316 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +51 = +107
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
Glancing blow to your right leg!
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.<<
A) Despite dwellers being significantly under my level, note that there is a 20% chance that the maneuver will fail.
B) The duration is crappy. I attacked once, and the effect wore off before I could hide again; the critter got off a full strength attack while I was still in RT. In order to take advantage of it's diminished perception, I'd have had to use vanish, which we have already noted carries a penalty to hiding.
I suppose it's possible that the effects get better with more ranks, but this initial experience doesn't make me really enthusiastic about getting more ranks. I'll try with a different test subject; dwellers are resistant to a few things, including eyepoke, so maybe minos are more susceptible.
>>A krag dweller stands up with a grunt.
>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>cman dirtkick
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 123 (open d100: 45) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a krag dweller!
Score! Direct hit to a krag dweller's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a krag dweller!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have excellent positioning against a krag dweller.
UAF: 439 vs UDF: 327 = 1.342 * MM: 99 + d100: 61 = 193
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
Furious fast fist forces fibula fracture! Foot flies free, falling forward five feet forth!
A krag dweller crashes to the ground as its left leg is shattered into just so much rubble!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The redness leaves a krag dweller's eyes.
R>
A krag dweller pounds at you with its fist!
AS: +334 vs DS: +316 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +51 = +107
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
Glancing blow to your right leg!
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.<<
A) Despite dwellers being significantly under my level, note that there is a 20% chance that the maneuver will fail.
B) The duration is crappy. I attacked once, and the effect wore off before I could hide again; the critter got off a full strength attack while I was still in RT. In order to take advantage of it's diminished perception, I'd have had to use vanish, which we have already noted carries a penalty to hiding.
I suppose it's possible that the effects get better with more ranks, but this initial experience doesn't make me really enthusiastic about getting more ranks. I'll try with a different test subject; dwellers are resistant to a few things, including eyepoke, so maybe minos are more susceptible.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 03:11 PM CST
Still OMW to the labyrinth. Ah, a lesser mino! Let's try it out in that poor sucker.
>>HR>
A lesser minotaur casually glances askance in various directions, attempting to appear discreet.
Suddenly moving his attention wildly throughout the area, the lesser minotaur assumes an expression of clear frustration.
H>cman dirt
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 51 (open d100: 11) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a lesser minotaur!
The lesser minotaur barely avoids the clump of dust.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A lesser minotaur swings a curved silvery white greataxe at you!
You dodge just in the nick of time!
>
A krag yeti rumbles in!
>cman dirt
[Roll result: 104 (open d100: 64) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a lesser minotaur!
Score! Direct hit to a lesser minotaur's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.<<
WTH? Still using a critter under my level, and now there's only a 40% chance of success. I'm starting to think that this maneuver seriously bites. Hmm, maybe that yeti will prove more susceptible.
>>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A krag yeti searches around nervously.
HR>cman dirt
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 142 (open d100: 60) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a krag yeti!
Score! Direct hit to a krag yeti's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a krag yeti!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a krag yeti.
UAF: 439 vs UDF: 357 = 1.229 * MM: 99 + d100: 23 = 144
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Strong strike leaves a bloody gash on the krag yeti's left calf.
The krag yeti is knocked to the ground!
The krag yeti is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The redness leaves a krag yeti's eyes.<<
Nope, yetis work just like krag dwellers.
>>HR>
A lesser minotaur casually glances askance in various directions, attempting to appear discreet.
Suddenly moving his attention wildly throughout the area, the lesser minotaur assumes an expression of clear frustration.
H>cman dirt
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 51 (open d100: 11) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a lesser minotaur!
The lesser minotaur barely avoids the clump of dust.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A lesser minotaur swings a curved silvery white greataxe at you!
You dodge just in the nick of time!
>
A krag yeti rumbles in!
>cman dirt
[Roll result: 104 (open d100: 64) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a lesser minotaur!
Score! Direct hit to a lesser minotaur's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.<<
WTH? Still using a critter under my level, and now there's only a 40% chance of success. I'm starting to think that this maneuver seriously bites. Hmm, maybe that yeti will prove more susceptible.
>>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A krag yeti searches around nervously.
HR>cman dirt
You step out of hiding.
[Roll result: 142 (open d100: 60) Penalties: 0]
You manage to kick a large clump of dust at a krag yeti!
Score! Direct hit to a krag yeti's face!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a krag yeti!
Your attack is hindered by holding a glistening sea-blue buckler!
You have good positioning against a krag yeti.
UAF: 439 vs UDF: 357 = 1.229 * MM: 99 + d100: 23 = 144
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Strong strike leaves a bloody gash on the krag yeti's left calf.
The krag yeti is knocked to the ground!
The krag yeti is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
The redness leaves a krag yeti's eyes.<<
Nope, yetis work just like krag dwellers.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 03:15 PM CST
Now, it occurs to me that maybe these results are actually in line with what one should expect with only 3 out of 5 ranks in a combat maneuver. Perhaps my expectations were set too high when some other poster claimed he was getting good results from just one rank. It depends on your definition of "good results", I suppose.
Anyone have experience with using this maneuver after getting the full 5 ranks?
Anyone have experience with using this maneuver after getting the full 5 ranks?
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 03:23 PM CST
>> Now, it occurs to me that maybe these results are actually in line with what one should expect with only 3 out of 5 ranks in a combat maneuver.
This. My general experience is that you can expect to see decent results with round 4 and 5 ranks in a skill. At 3 ranks you can 'use' it but don't expect anything stellar.
-- Robert
Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
This. My general experience is that you can expect to see decent results with round 4 and 5 ranks in a skill. At 3 ranks you can 'use' it but don't expect anything stellar.
-- Robert
Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
SOURCE
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 04:16 PM CST
You have to remember this is a maneuver available nearly, if not all professions. It's not gonna be as great as the profession specific maneuvers. I would explore sucker punch and groin kick, specially as a brawler.
SOURCE
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 04:23 PM CST
Also curious how well crowd press works with UAC.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 09:56 PM CST
>> I would explore sucker punch and groin kick, specially as a brawler.<<
I was looking to explore skills that would help with S&H, to offset the handicap to vanish that I am getting with my hauberk. 3 ranks of dirtkick is a prerequisite for learning dust shroud. Now, though, I am wondering if I will have to get full ranks in shroud also before it becomes reliably usable. Hence my asking for an evaluation of the skill from anyone who has actually trained in it.
And I'm still unhappy about the dirtkick duration also. What's the duration on dust shroud?
>>My general experience is that you can expect to see decent results with round 4 and 5 ranks in a skill. At 3 ranks you can 'use' it but don't expect anything stellar.<<
Oh, I know this. But I was expecting to see the maneuver work a bit better than it did because I was using test subjects that were under my own level (77). Usually if you are 5+ trains over the target critter you get a serious bonus.
I was looking to explore skills that would help with S&H, to offset the handicap to vanish that I am getting with my hauberk. 3 ranks of dirtkick is a prerequisite for learning dust shroud. Now, though, I am wondering if I will have to get full ranks in shroud also before it becomes reliably usable. Hence my asking for an evaluation of the skill from anyone who has actually trained in it.
And I'm still unhappy about the dirtkick duration also. What's the duration on dust shroud?
>>My general experience is that you can expect to see decent results with round 4 and 5 ranks in a skill. At 3 ranks you can 'use' it but don't expect anything stellar.<<
Oh, I know this. But I was expecting to see the maneuver work a bit better than it did because I was using test subjects that were under my own level (77). Usually if you are 5+ trains over the target critter you get a serious bonus.
KEITHOBAD
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/12/2015 11:49 PM CST
I think dustshroud is just a hide with a bonus on your roll, so the duration would be instantaneous. If you dirtkick a rolton how long does it last? I was planning on learning dirtkick if this HSN fixskill ever came through but you're making me reconsider!
RATHBONER
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/13/2015 06:10 AM CST
>If you dirtkick a rolton how long does it last? I was planning on learning dirtkick if this HSN fixskill ever came through but you're making me reconsider!
I'd guess its (endroll-100)/4 with a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 20s. It should be fairly easy to find out what it is if you get someone to use it on you. Thats the type of formula CMans use, you just need to work out what the endroll margin is divided by and what the min and max are.
Stance would be worth checking too. Usable from defensive could mean there's only a small benefit rather than it makes no difference what stance you are in.
I'd guess its (endroll-100)/4 with a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 20s. It should be fairly easy to find out what it is if you get someone to use it on you. Thats the type of formula CMans use, you just need to work out what the endroll margin is divided by and what the min and max are.
Stance would be worth checking too. Usable from defensive could mean there's only a small benefit rather than it makes no difference what stance you are in.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/13/2015 11:48 AM CST
>> Usable from defensive could mean there's only a small benefit rather than it makes no difference what stance you are in.<<
Yeah, I was also starting to wonder if a more offensive stance might have an effect. I'll check that out later today if I get a chance.
Your estimate for duration is 5-20 seconds. That's actually a fairly wide range. 20 seconds would be a decent time frame to allow for re-hiding and an ambush, while 5 seconds would be moderately lame.
And shroud is actually a hide maneuver like vanish? I.E. instead of creating a condition (cloud of dust) that persists for a time and allows enhanced hiding (with hide as a separate command) you automatically make a hide attempt when you activate it? The actual description is a bit vague on the exact details and I don't have any ranks in it yet, which is why I have to ask.
Yeah, I was also starting to wonder if a more offensive stance might have an effect. I'll check that out later today if I get a chance.
Your estimate for duration is 5-20 seconds. That's actually a fairly wide range. 20 seconds would be a decent time frame to allow for re-hiding and an ambush, while 5 seconds would be moderately lame.
And shroud is actually a hide maneuver like vanish? I.E. instead of creating a condition (cloud of dust) that persists for a time and allows enhanced hiding (with hide as a separate command) you automatically make a hide attempt when you activate it? The actual description is a bit vague on the exact details and I don't have any ranks in it yet, which is why I have to ask.
PFLATS
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/13/2015 11:57 AM CST
Shroud is a hide maneuver, yes.
THROGG
Re: End Game training: Suggestions welcomed
11/13/2015 12:37 PM CST
OK, I went back and tried out dirtkick on yetis and lesser minos, from both defensive and offensive stances. There was no difference in effect on either end roll or duration. It does indeed seem that the maneuver is designed to be used from defensive stance, which is one positive thing.
