I'm back on a F2P account getting my feet wet back in the game again. From what I gather dodge is the thing now for rogues. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to train my guy... should I do shield, is two weapon combat ideal?
Ideally I want to be a picker and a fighter.
These are may stats at 2... I still have time to change them around... wanted to get input though because its definitly been a while since I've played.
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Shield Use.........................| 5 1
Combat Maneuvers...................| 20 4
Edged Weapons......................| 35 7
Ambush.............................| 35 7
Physical Fitness...................| 35 7
Dodging............................| 35 7
Disarming Traps....................| 35 7
Picking Locks......................| 35 7
Stalking and Hiding................| 35 7
Perception.........................| 35 7
Pickpocketing......................| 35 7
BIGTONE82
TROUBLE13
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/11/2015 02:40 PM CDT
Sword/board is about the cheapest TP wise with the way most people train. But you can do whatever you feel like. TWC at 1x while not as effective as 2x is only 2/2 while shield at 1x is 0/4. Doing ranged from the open is about the cheapest training path you can take. I started a rogue that I play on and off again and he is sword/board, only at level 13 right now and close to 14, I spend too much time playing my main.
Here is what his training looks like.
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Shield Use.........................| 70 15
Combat Maneuvers...................| 70 15
Edged Weapons......................| 120 30
Ambush.............................| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Dodging............................| 70 15
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Survival...........................| 70 15
Disarming Traps....................| 130 35
Picking Locks......................| 130 35
Stalking and Hiding................| 90 20
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 70 15
Trading............................| 70 15
Pickpocketing......................| 70 15
Those skills that are at 20 right now are there because I wasn't happy with how effective they were so I pushed them up there and have just left them there. I'll let them settle down to 1x like most everything else. I didn't start picking until 13 so that helped on having some points to spread around a bit. I didn't start picking until 13 because I want to have all those other little skills like FA, survival, trading, pickpocketing and I know from experience that it is best to wait until you have 10 ranks of AS, and 30 ranks of picking skills. Two simple reasons 10 ranks of AS is needed at that low of a level for scarabs, and you don't get full picking experience until you have 30 ranks. I know I have a lot of skills trained and I'm spread kind of thin but for the most part I know what I'm doing and I'll adjust as needed. For you, I'd suggest cutting out the extra skills and putting them into dodge, hiding, and ambush.
Here is what his training looks like.
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Shield Use.........................| 70 15
Combat Maneuvers...................| 70 15
Edged Weapons......................| 120 30
Ambush.............................| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Dodging............................| 70 15
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Survival...........................| 70 15
Disarming Traps....................| 130 35
Picking Locks......................| 130 35
Stalking and Hiding................| 90 20
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 70 15
Trading............................| 70 15
Pickpocketing......................| 70 15
Those skills that are at 20 right now are there because I wasn't happy with how effective they were so I pushed them up there and have just left them there. I'll let them settle down to 1x like most everything else. I didn't start picking until 13 so that helped on having some points to spread around a bit. I didn't start picking until 13 because I want to have all those other little skills like FA, survival, trading, pickpocketing and I know from experience that it is best to wait until you have 10 ranks of AS, and 30 ranks of picking skills. Two simple reasons 10 ranks of AS is needed at that low of a level for scarabs, and you don't get full picking experience until you have 30 ranks. I know I have a lot of skills trained and I'm spread kind of thin but for the most part I know what I'm doing and I'll adjust as needed. For you, I'd suggest cutting out the extra skills and putting them into dodge, hiding, and ambush.
VERSIN
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/11/2015 04:21 PM CDT
Welcome back!
The GS wiki has a beginner's guide to being a rogue, as well as being a great resource: https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/A_beginner%27s_guide_to_playing_a_rogue
Best thing about rogues is the versatility. Any fighting style - sword and shield, two weapon combat, ranged, unarmed combat - can work. The latter two styles might be brand new to you. You have unlimited opportunities to instantly change your skills in your first 30 days so try them all!
2x dodge is a baseline for a rogue, and you can decide how extreme you want to take it as you get your feet wet. There is an evade/block/parry system. Some rogues go for the evasion/stealth route while others go more for the toe-to-toe route. Combat maneuvers can help you specialize your training here.
Training 2x in picking will be enough to get most of your own boxes, although as you may remember it takes 5-10 levels to build up the skill to safely start trying. Pick up the lores (403/404) later down the line.
I would drop pickpocketing, although it was fun back in the day there are so many capped characters about you will not have any success, especially early on.
The GS wiki has a beginner's guide to being a rogue, as well as being a great resource: https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/A_beginner%27s_guide_to_playing_a_rogue
Best thing about rogues is the versatility. Any fighting style - sword and shield, two weapon combat, ranged, unarmed combat - can work. The latter two styles might be brand new to you. You have unlimited opportunities to instantly change your skills in your first 30 days so try them all!
2x dodge is a baseline for a rogue, and you can decide how extreme you want to take it as you get your feet wet. There is an evade/block/parry system. Some rogues go for the evasion/stealth route while others go more for the toe-to-toe route. Combat maneuvers can help you specialize your training here.
Training 2x in picking will be enough to get most of your own boxes, although as you may remember it takes 5-10 levels to build up the skill to safely start trying. Pick up the lores (403/404) later down the line.
I would drop pickpocketing, although it was fun back in the day there are so many capped characters about you will not have any success, especially early on.
THROGG
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/12/2015 03:21 AM CDT
What race are you?
Just a suggestion: avoid weaker races for now; being encumbered sucks. 3x locksmith skill is OK, but there are fewer folks around now; harder to make a living doing mainly locksmithing. You could easily cut back to 2x and be able to do your own boxes. And yeah, dump pickpocketing. You may want a few ranks for defensive purposes but that's all you need.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Just a suggestion: avoid weaker races for now; being encumbered sucks. 3x locksmith skill is OK, but there are fewer folks around now; harder to make a living doing mainly locksmithing. You could easily cut back to 2x and be able to do your own boxes. And yeah, dump pickpocketing. You may want a few ranks for defensive purposes but that's all you need.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
THROGG
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/12/2015 04:01 AM CDT
There's a bunch of new skills; there are skills associated with armor, skills associated with shields, skills associated with combat maneuvers ... new combat modes like unarmed combat and refinements to ranged weapons (avoid thrown ... hurled weapons still a bit broken).
Unarmed combat is pretty cool; it was designed for monks but rogues are much better at it. The difference is due to ambushing; using it from the open is equally bad for both monks and rogues. Join the Guild at 15 trainings, and you can learn stuff like cheapshots and sweep there; don't use precious CMan points training in skills you can learn via the guild.
Some decisions are harder than others. Three ranks of vanish (the most you can get) is a no brainer. I debated for a while between armor evasion and armor stealth, however. I finally went with evasion, reasoning that there are a number of things that can ruin your hide, at which point you want to be able to avoid the enemy attacks better. I'm still not convinced I made the right choice :P
An example of putting these skills to work:
Name: Guennwhfar Mordfrau Race: Dark Elf Profession: Rogue (shown as: Shadowwalker)
Gender: Female Age: 30 Expr: 3933682 Level: 65
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 108 (29)
Constitution (CON): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 103 (36)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 76 (3) ... 76 (3)
Aura (AUR): 84 (27) ... 84 (27)
Logic (LOG): 61 (5) ... 63 (6)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 71 (15) ... 71 (15)
Influence (INF): 53 (-4) ... 53 (-4)
Mana: 19 Silver: 30
>skill
Guennwhfar (at level 65), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 161 61
Shield Use.........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 192 92
Brawling...........................| 245 145
Ambush.............................| 238 138
Physical Fitness...................| 195 95
Dodging............................| 240 140
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 20 4
Disarming Traps....................| 234 134
Picking Locks......................| 234 134
Stalking and Hiding................| 254 154
Perception.........................| 234 134
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 3 Phy 15 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)
>shield info
>
Guennwhfar, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 4
Deflect the Elements deflect 3
>cman info
Guennwhfar, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Divert divert 4
Vanish vanish 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Total Points converted during your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 2
Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 2 days
>armor info
Guennwhfar, your Armor Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Armored Evasion evasion 2
Available Armor Training Points: 11
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Unarmed combat is pretty cool; it was designed for monks but rogues are much better at it. The difference is due to ambushing; using it from the open is equally bad for both monks and rogues. Join the Guild at 15 trainings, and you can learn stuff like cheapshots and sweep there; don't use precious CMan points training in skills you can learn via the guild.
Some decisions are harder than others. Three ranks of vanish (the most you can get) is a no brainer. I debated for a while between armor evasion and armor stealth, however. I finally went with evasion, reasoning that there are a number of things that can ruin your hide, at which point you want to be able to avoid the enemy attacks better. I'm still not convinced I made the right choice :P
An example of putting these skills to work:
Name: Guennwhfar Mordfrau Race: Dark Elf Profession: Rogue (shown as: Shadowwalker)
Gender: Female Age: 30 Expr: 3933682 Level: 65
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 108 (29)
Constitution (CON): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 103 (36)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 76 (3) ... 76 (3)
Aura (AUR): 84 (27) ... 84 (27)
Logic (LOG): 61 (5) ... 63 (6)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 71 (15) ... 71 (15)
Influence (INF): 53 (-4) ... 53 (-4)
Mana: 19 Silver: 30
>skill
Guennwhfar (at level 65), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 161 61
Shield Use.........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 192 92
Brawling...........................| 245 145
Ambush.............................| 238 138
Physical Fitness...................| 195 95
Dodging............................| 240 140
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 20 4
Disarming Traps....................| 234 134
Picking Locks......................| 234 134
Stalking and Hiding................| 254 154
Perception.........................| 234 134
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 3 Phy 15 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)
>shield info
>
Guennwhfar, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 4
Deflect the Elements deflect 3
>cman info
Guennwhfar, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Divert divert 4
Vanish vanish 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Total Points converted during your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 2
Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 2 days
>armor info
Guennwhfar, your Armor Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Armored Evasion evasion 2
Available Armor Training Points: 11
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
RAITHZERO
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 10:13 AM CDT
I also have come back as a F2P account and rolled up a rogue. And my only major question is this I currently can't enter the rogue guild so I have to spend at least some of my CMans on offensive/setup CMans I plan on doing sword and board and I am not planning on picking at all until much later in the jars gets career. So which rogue guild skills would you suggest I train my CMans points on. I am mastering shadow mastery of course but looking for idea on the rest
Thank you
Ron
Player of tazal
TROUBLE13
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 11:32 AM CDT
I'd suggest getting divert and maybe predator's eye for combat maneuvers. I am finding both of them useful on my low level rogue.
AFALLACE
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 11:44 AM CDT
I'll second divert. Invaluable skill and incredibly usable with only a few ranks.
The thing is you said you're thinking sword and board, and if that is the case, don't forget you can train in shield skills now by using shield points. Shield bash is a pretty decent skill if you're looking for a band-aid for guild sweep without sacrificing CMPs.
That said, if you're still dead set on a guild disabler I would avoid cheapshots and subdue since so many things are just outright immune to them, whereas sweep works on most things.
.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.
The thing is you said you're thinking sword and board, and if that is the case, don't forget you can train in shield skills now by using shield points. Shield bash is a pretty decent skill if you're looking for a band-aid for guild sweep without sacrificing CMPs.
That said, if you're still dead set on a guild disabler I would avoid cheapshots and subdue since so many things are just outright immune to them, whereas sweep works on most things.
.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.
THROGG
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 01:54 PM CDT
Aye, sweep isn't bad. I have a bard who is learning that CMan. And yes, subdue and cheapshots tend to suck, even when learned via the guild. They really need revising. Unfortunately, Simu has made it pretty clear that there are no plans to revise any guild skills whatsoever.
"The enemy are so many, and our country so small ...
where shall we find the space to bury all of them?"
"The enemy are so many, and our country so small ...
where shall we find the space to bury all of them?"
RATHBONER
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 02:23 PM CDT
Existing ones get tweaked, its new guilds that won't happen. Warrior guild skills have had a couple of major upgrades over the past few years.
RAITHZERO
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 03:02 PM CDT
I am not set for using the guild skills but I knew I would need something like them as a setup. I will look into shield bash as well as divert and predators eye. I am not sold on keeping the shield but as for now he is using one.
Just a quick double check if shield use = dodge then use a medium. And if dodge>shield use the use a small shield correct?
Thanks
Ron
Player of Tasso
TROUBLE13
Re: First rogue back in a while
03/16/2015 03:50 PM CDT
>>Just a quick double check if shield use = dodge then use a medium. And if dodge>shield use the use a small shield correct?
If dodge is at least equal to shield use you'll want to use a small. If shield use is greater then dodge as a rogue you'd likely want to use a medium, larger and tower would give you slightly more DS but all the rogue shield maneuvers are geared towards small/medium.
If dodge is at least equal to shield use you'll want to use a small. If shield use is greater then dodge as a rogue you'd likely want to use a medium, larger and tower would give you slightly more DS but all the rogue shield maneuvers are geared towards small/medium.
