I'm curious how brawling works now with regards to ambush. Do creatures have a chance to dodge brawling attacks? That's what initially forced me into TWC, the chance of just completely whiffing on an attack was way too high and left me dangling in the wind. If I can get the same protection from going brawling at the cost of much less TPs... well that's something.
So those of you who are brawler rogues what are the pros/cons that you've noticed?
KEITHOBAD
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/19/2014 10:45 PM CST
>>So those of you who are brawler rogues what are the pros/cons that you've noticed?<<
I assume you are talking about the UAC combat system, not using brawling weapons per se.
Bad:
1) Unlike weapons, TWC training doesn't allow two attacks using UAC. (It does, however, increase your DS with the left hand free).
2) Using a shield with this combat system reduces your effectiveness. Shielded brawler skill helps somewhat but doesn't offset the penalty totally.
3) Level vs level has a bearing on the MM (a combat number more important for results than the UAF:UDF ratio), so it's a bit harder to overhunt than with weapons.
Good:
1) It seems more effective against heavily armored foes than trying to stick a dagger in their eye.
2) The Coolness factor; it just looks impressive to punch your fist right through a stone giant's head.
3) You can still use weapon and shield to ambush! There are a couple of decent brawling weapons out there; I like my sai. It's small and ambushes about as accurately as a dagger, but is better against certain armor types, like chain. Use weapons against critters with squishy heads/necks, UAC for others.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
I assume you are talking about the UAC combat system, not using brawling weapons per se.
Bad:
1) Unlike weapons, TWC training doesn't allow two attacks using UAC. (It does, however, increase your DS with the left hand free).
2) Using a shield with this combat system reduces your effectiveness. Shielded brawler skill helps somewhat but doesn't offset the penalty totally.
3) Level vs level has a bearing on the MM (a combat number more important for results than the UAF:UDF ratio), so it's a bit harder to overhunt than with weapons.
Good:
1) It seems more effective against heavily armored foes than trying to stick a dagger in their eye.
2) The Coolness factor; it just looks impressive to punch your fist right through a stone giant's head.
3) You can still use weapon and shield to ambush! There are a couple of decent brawling weapons out there; I like my sai. It's small and ambushes about as accurately as a dagger, but is better against certain armor types, like chain. Use weapons against critters with squishy heads/necks, UAC for others.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/19/2014 11:04 PM CST
w
[Thanatoph, Eastern Slope]
The mountain rises sharply to the south while the path you are on leisurely wends its way eastward. You are sheltered somewhat from the wind and see that in the past, others have chosen this spot to set up camp. You also see a stone giant.
Obvious paths: east, southeast, west, up
>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
H>stance offen
> punch giant left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone giant!
You have good positioning against a stone giant.
UAF: 380 vs UDF: 324 = 1.172 * MM: 107 + d100: 53 = 178
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the stone giant's left leg fractures the fibula.
The stone giant is knocked to the ground!
The stone giant is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A stone giant throws his head back and roars, shaking off the stun!
HR>
HR>stance offen
> punch giant head
H>
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone giant!
You have excellent positioning against a stone giant.
UAF: 380 vs UDF: 317 = 1.198 * MM: 114 + d100: 84 = 220
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Explosive punch to the face leaves little else than a pulpy mass of blood, bone, and brain matter!
The stone giant rumbles in agony and goes still.
A stone giant seems to lose an aura of confidence.
A stone giant returns to normal color.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
[Thanatoph, Eastern Slope]
The mountain rises sharply to the south while the path you are on leisurely wends its way eastward. You are sheltered somewhat from the wind and see that in the past, others have chosen this spot to set up camp. You also see a stone giant.
Obvious paths: east, southeast, west, up
>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
H>stance offen
> punch giant left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone giant!
You have good positioning against a stone giant.
UAF: 380 vs UDF: 324 = 1.172 * MM: 107 + d100: 53 = 178
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the stone giant's left leg fractures the fibula.
The stone giant is knocked to the ground!
The stone giant is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A stone giant throws his head back and roars, shaking off the stun!
HR>
HR>stance offen
> punch giant head
H>
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone giant!
You have excellent positioning against a stone giant.
UAF: 380 vs UDF: 317 = 1.198 * MM: 114 + d100: 84 = 220
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Explosive punch to the face leaves little else than a pulpy mass of blood, bone, and brain matter!
The stone giant rumbles in agony and goes still.
A stone giant seems to lose an aura of confidence.
A stone giant returns to normal color.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
KEITHOBAD
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 12:09 AM CST
Hmm doing some research on krakii I noticed this (which was news to me):
All UCS attacks are executed from 1 of 3 positions (Decent, Good, Excellent). Each position determines the critical rank range. Higher endrolls will increase the likelihood of a higher critical rank within each range but even extraordinarily high endrolls and/or critical weighting cannot push a critical beyond the maximum for that position.
The ranges for each position are as follows:
Tier 1 (Decent positioning): Rank 0 to Rank 5
Tier 2 (Good positioning): Rank 0 to Rank 8
Tier 3 (Excellent positioning): Rank 0 to Rank 11
If you are attacking something short enough to go straight for the neck, can you still reliably kill soft targets with one hit using brawling (UDF)?
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 12:43 AM CST
And here is regular ambushing with a sai:
HR>
The ground before you cracks open and a stone troll claws his way to the surface!
H>
A stone troll glances around, examining the ground.
H>amb troll left leg
You leap from hiding to attack!
You thrust with a superior vultite sai at a stone troll!
AS: +337 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +11 = +214
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
The stone troll is knocked to the ground!
The stone troll is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A stone troll's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A stone troll's left leg regenerates and looks much better.
A stone troll flails his arms about angrily, shaking off the stun!
H>amb troll head
You leap from hiding to attack!
You thrust with a superior vultite sai at a stone troll!
AS: +337 vs DS: +105 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +3 = +258
... and hit for 55 points of damage!
Strike through both ears, foe is quite dead!
The stone troll shudders violently for a moment, then goes still.
The air about a stone troll stops shimmering.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
HR>
The ground before you cracks open and a stone troll claws his way to the surface!
H>
A stone troll glances around, examining the ground.
H>amb troll left leg
You leap from hiding to attack!
You thrust with a superior vultite sai at a stone troll!
AS: +337 vs DS: +157 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +11 = +214
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
The stone troll is knocked to the ground!
The stone troll is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A stone troll's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A stone troll's left leg regenerates and looks much better.
A stone troll flails his arms about angrily, shaking off the stun!
H>amb troll head
You leap from hiding to attack!
You thrust with a superior vultite sai at a stone troll!
AS: +337 vs DS: +105 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +3 = +258
... and hit for 55 points of damage!
Strike through both ears, foe is quite dead!
The stone troll shudders violently for a moment, then goes still.
The air about a stone troll stops shimmering.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 12:53 AM CST
Attacking from the open with UAC requires you to go through an annoying "tiering up" process. You usually start with decent, jab once or twice to get a better position, then punch, kick or grapple away. Attacking from ambush usually starts you off one tier up from decent, i.e. good position, which can produce crits up to rank 8. So, yes, you can one shot a foe from ambush. Aiming an attack adds 1 second to the RT, but that happens with weapon ambushes also.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 02:13 AM CST
Oh, also note that the different types of attack do different damages, and you can improve them with certain CMan skills. Jab does very little damage, and is mainly used to gain a better position when attacking from the open. I never use it, despite what any messaging says; the tier-up from ambushing takes its place. Kick is capable of doing massive damage, but is the slowest of the 4 attack modes. Grapple is intermediate in RT, and more likely to knock something down, but is also capable of killing outright. I use punch almost exclusively now. Why? Because I picked up two ranks of punch mastery, which makes it more devastating, while at the same time remaining quite fast. I'll probably get the third rank sometime in the next 3 trainings.
Other things affect UAC in ways that are similar to their effect on weapon combat. Strength spell adds +15 to your UAF, I have 6x handwraps and 4x footwraps, also adding to UAF, and CMan ranks in general increase the UAF by 1 per every two ranks you learn. Blue crystals, pure potions, society powers ... all the usual things add their effects in.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Other things affect UAC in ways that are similar to their effect on weapon combat. Strength spell adds +15 to your UAF, I have 6x handwraps and 4x footwraps, also adding to UAF, and CMan ranks in general increase the UAF by 1 per every two ranks you learn. Blue crystals, pure potions, society powers ... all the usual things add their effects in.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
JARHEAD
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 08:38 AM CST
Don't forget that using UAC compatible weapons adds half the enchant of the weapon to your attack. It's all found here. http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Brawling_weapons
General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq
Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato
General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq
Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 01:23 PM CST
>>Don't forget that using UAC compatible weapons adds half the enchant of the weapon to your attack<<
Ah, but there's a trade off there. Your UAF goes up, making a hit more likely, but the damage done actually goes down. While the weapon's DF is added in, the MM, which is the main determinant for crit level, drops comparably. I find that it's better to just get a higher enchant hand/foot wrap if you really need the extra UAF. I draw your attention to the following:
>> UCS Multiplier Modifier (MM) penalties only apply to HELD items. Any held item, including UCS compatible brawling weapons, will reduce MM values. The actual reduction depends on the particular item.<<
Basically, the harder the weapon itself hits, the more the MM drops. Also, MM is penalized a bit for wearing heavier armor, which is why monks are encouraged to wear robes. But they are attacking from the open; our ambush ability compensates for that.
Side note: know your enemies. The reason I used stone trolls for the sai ambush example is that, while both trolls and giants are made of stone, the giants are a lot tougher. Trolls are quite vulnerable to the weapon, possibly to make up for the whole regeneration thing they have going on, while I am totally unable to leg a giant with a sai.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Ah, but there's a trade off there. Your UAF goes up, making a hit more likely, but the damage done actually goes down. While the weapon's DF is added in, the MM, which is the main determinant for crit level, drops comparably. I find that it's better to just get a higher enchant hand/foot wrap if you really need the extra UAF. I draw your attention to the following:
>> UCS Multiplier Modifier (MM) penalties only apply to HELD items. Any held item, including UCS compatible brawling weapons, will reduce MM values. The actual reduction depends on the particular item.<<
Basically, the harder the weapon itself hits, the more the MM drops. Also, MM is penalized a bit for wearing heavier armor, which is why monks are encouraged to wear robes. But they are attacking from the open; our ambush ability compensates for that.
Side note: know your enemies. The reason I used stone trolls for the sai ambush example is that, while both trolls and giants are made of stone, the giants are a lot tougher. Trolls are quite vulnerable to the weapon, possibly to make up for the whole regeneration thing they have going on, while I am totally unable to leg a giant with a sai.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
RATHBONER
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 07:21 PM CST
>Do creatures have a chance to dodge brawling attacks?
This attack worked, but if the die roll had been 7 or less it would have missed. EBP factors into the MM value, so if it had been good at EBP, the MM would have been lower than 103 and the chance of rolling too low to hit would have been higher. (and if it had missed I'd have vanished)
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a decomposing Taladorian mage!
You have good positioning against a decomposing Taladorian mage.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 582 = 0.907 * MM: 103 + d100: 49 = 142
A layer of shifting stone absorbs 8 points of damage!
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Strong strike leaves a bloody gash on the Taladorian mage's left calf.
The Taladorian mage is knocked to the ground!
The Taladorian mage is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
The main way of whiffing is not getting the ambush tier. This is on an attempt to knock down, and the high roll was good enough to get that although there was no chance of a heavy crit.
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a decomposing Taladorian mage!
You have decent positioning against a decomposing Taladorian mage.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 500 = 1.056 * MM: 101 + d100: 89 = 195
A layer of shifting stone absorbs 11 points of damage!
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The Taladorian mage is knocked to the ground!
The Taladorian mage is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
....
>If you are attacking something short enough to go straight for the neck, can you still reliably kill soft targets with one hit using brawling (UDF)?
If the head is in reach, then this sort of one-shot is on. Its only a reliable squish if the target hasn't got levels on you. If it has, then you'll fail to get the ambush tier some of the time and just get a stun.
HR>stance off
>punch head
You are now in an offensive stance.
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a deformed red-eyed dark gnome!
You have good positioning against a deformed red-eyed dark gnome.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 338 = 1.562 * MM: 99 + d100: 18 = 172
... and hit for 53 points of damage!
Palm strike to face drives nose straight into brain!
The red-eyed dark gnome falls to the ground and dies.
A deformed red-eyed dark gnome loses a thorny barrier.
The red-eyed dark gnome falls to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
here's one where the initial attack came in at decent but the follow up is at excellent because I use the grapple opening to get a tier as well as rehiding.
You have decent positioning against a slick-scaled night serpent.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 539 = 0.979 * MM: 96 + d100: 93 = 187
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Spinning backfist snaps the night serpent's head to the side!
The night serpent is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
You attempt to grapple a slick-scaled night serpent!
You have excellent positioning against a slick-scaled night serpent.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 488 = 1.081 * MM: 93 + d100: 62 = 162
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Powerful grip twists head around until it faces backwards, giving the night serpent a new perspective on life!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the night serpent's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
A slick-scaled night serpent's tail trembles then falls to the ground as the rest of its body goes limp.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
Don't forget that using UAC compatible weapons adds half the enchant of the weapon to your attack.
Once past level 20, you should forget it. The MM penalty hurts more than the UAF bonus.
...
>left me dangling in the wind.
You'll still dangle from time to time unless you learn to Vanish.
This attack worked, but if the die roll had been 7 or less it would have missed. EBP factors into the MM value, so if it had been good at EBP, the MM would have been lower than 103 and the chance of rolling too low to hit would have been higher. (and if it had missed I'd have vanished)
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a decomposing Taladorian mage!
You have good positioning against a decomposing Taladorian mage.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 582 = 0.907 * MM: 103 + d100: 49 = 142
A layer of shifting stone absorbs 8 points of damage!
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Strong strike leaves a bloody gash on the Taladorian mage's left calf.
The Taladorian mage is knocked to the ground!
The Taladorian mage is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
The main way of whiffing is not getting the ambush tier. This is on an attempt to knock down, and the high roll was good enough to get that although there was no chance of a heavy crit.
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a decomposing Taladorian mage!
You have decent positioning against a decomposing Taladorian mage.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 500 = 1.056 * MM: 101 + d100: 89 = 195
A layer of shifting stone absorbs 11 points of damage!
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The Taladorian mage is knocked to the ground!
The Taladorian mage is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
....
>If you are attacking something short enough to go straight for the neck, can you still reliably kill soft targets with one hit using brawling (UDF)?
If the head is in reach, then this sort of one-shot is on. Its only a reliable squish if the target hasn't got levels on you. If it has, then you'll fail to get the ambush tier some of the time and just get a stun.
HR>stance off
>punch head
You are now in an offensive stance.
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a deformed red-eyed dark gnome!
You have good positioning against a deformed red-eyed dark gnome.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 338 = 1.562 * MM: 99 + d100: 18 = 172
... and hit for 53 points of damage!
Palm strike to face drives nose straight into brain!
The red-eyed dark gnome falls to the ground and dies.
A deformed red-eyed dark gnome loses a thorny barrier.
The red-eyed dark gnome falls to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
here's one where the initial attack came in at decent but the follow up is at excellent because I use the grapple opening to get a tier as well as rehiding.
You have decent positioning against a slick-scaled night serpent.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 539 = 0.979 * MM: 96 + d100: 93 = 187
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Spinning backfist snaps the night serpent's head to the side!
The night serpent is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
You attempt to grapple a slick-scaled night serpent!
You have excellent positioning against a slick-scaled night serpent.
UAF: 528 vs UDF: 488 = 1.081 * MM: 93 + d100: 62 = 162
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Powerful grip twists head around until it faces backwards, giving the night serpent a new perspective on life!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the night serpent's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
A slick-scaled night serpent's tail trembles then falls to the ground as the rest of its body goes limp.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...
Don't forget that using UAC compatible weapons adds half the enchant of the weapon to your attack.
Once past level 20, you should forget it. The MM penalty hurts more than the UAF bonus.
...
>left me dangling in the wind.
You'll still dangle from time to time unless you learn to Vanish.
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/20/2014 09:34 PM CST
>>The main way of whiffing is not getting the ambush tier. <<
Ah, that's interesting. I don't think I have ever failed to get the ambush related tier up, but then I don't overhunt by more than 5 levels either. I assume it's a level vs level thing? I know the undead Taladoran knights and mages average level 110, so they are going to have an edge in that department over anybody. The knights wear heavy armor and have a ridiculous amount of health; do you find that they harder to use UAC against than the mages?
>> if it had missed I'd have vanished<<
Pay attention, children. This is why I got 3 ranks of vanish. If I do miss an attack, I don't want to stand out in the open looking silly and waiting to get splattered all over the landscape by some ugly 30 foot tall pile of moving rock.
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Ah, that's interesting. I don't think I have ever failed to get the ambush related tier up, but then I don't overhunt by more than 5 levels either. I assume it's a level vs level thing? I know the undead Taladoran knights and mages average level 110, so they are going to have an edge in that department over anybody. The knights wear heavy armor and have a ridiculous amount of health; do you find that they harder to use UAC against than the mages?
>> if it had missed I'd have vanished<<
Pay attention, children. This is why I got 3 ranks of vanish. If I do miss an attack, I don't want to stand out in the open looking silly and waiting to get splattered all over the landscape by some ugly 30 foot tall pile of moving rock.
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
RATHBONER
Re: Brawling
12/21/2014 05:33 AM CST
>Ah, that's interesting. I don't think I have ever failed to get the ambush related tier up, but then I don't overhunt by more than 5 levels either. I assume it's a level vs level thing? I know the undead Taladoran knights and mages average level 110, so they are going to have an edge in that department over anybody. The knights wear heavy armor and have a ridiculous amount of health; do you find that they harder to use UAC against than the mages?
Its a level thing. (and they average rather lower than 110) or I'd have whiffed a whole lot more) I first went in there (with a mob, not solo) about level 88 and I couldn't get a good shot in. 92 was about where it started to work solo. I'm also not 2x in ambush and I expect that is also adjusting the level comparison.
The mages stun, so leg, hide, head works but with a fairly high frequency of needing to take a 3rd or sometimes a 4th shot. The nearest normal hunting ground equivalent of the undead mage that I have taken on would be Vvrael warlocks. Those I'd open with an unaimed punch and then follow up with an abdomen shot if they were still standing. Head is needed if you are trying to get a crit kill at good position but body shots work fine if you have excellent.
I could kill half a dozen mages in the time it takes to kill a single knight. Maybe 75s most of which is punch RT. Maybe dragged out to a couple minutes by killing off other critters as they walk in. As I've levelled up, they've become less and less attractive because it makes virtually no difference to the time it takes to bleed them out, but a lot of difference to how reliably the other critters can be taken out. Standing around punching is a way to do something while waiting for stamina but as the need to vanish drops, so does the desire to stand around going punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch.
Its a level thing. (and they average rather lower than 110) or I'd have whiffed a whole lot more) I first went in there (with a mob, not solo) about level 88 and I couldn't get a good shot in. 92 was about where it started to work solo. I'm also not 2x in ambush and I expect that is also adjusting the level comparison.
The mages stun, so leg, hide, head works but with a fairly high frequency of needing to take a 3rd or sometimes a 4th shot. The nearest normal hunting ground equivalent of the undead mage that I have taken on would be Vvrael warlocks. Those I'd open with an unaimed punch and then follow up with an abdomen shot if they were still standing. Head is needed if you are trying to get a crit kill at good position but body shots work fine if you have excellent.
I could kill half a dozen mages in the time it takes to kill a single knight. Maybe 75s most of which is punch RT. Maybe dragged out to a couple minutes by killing off other critters as they walk in. As I've levelled up, they've become less and less attractive because it makes virtually no difference to the time it takes to bleed them out, but a lot of difference to how reliably the other critters can be taken out. Standing around punching is a way to do something while waiting for stamina but as the need to vanish drops, so does the desire to stand around going punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, punch.
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/21/2014 06:10 AM CST
>>they average rather lower than 110) or I'd have whiffed a whole lot more<<
I was going by their level when they were alive. (These are the same guys who were attacking the Landing a while back before becoming undead). It's true that becoming undead seems not to have agreed with them; their AS with those claidhs has dropped. They still take a long time to kill though. I don't have any UAC users old enough to hunt there, but even my capped spellcasters basically just plink away at them until they keel over. I was just curious how UAC fared against them. The mages are actually far more dangerous with their spells, but luckily are a lot more fragile.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
I was going by their level when they were alive. (These are the same guys who were attacking the Landing a while back before becoming undead). It's true that becoming undead seems not to have agreed with them; their AS with those claidhs has dropped. They still take a long time to kill though. I don't have any UAC users old enough to hunt there, but even my capped spellcasters basically just plink away at them until they keel over. I was just curious how UAC fared against them. The mages are actually far more dangerous with their spells, but luckily are a lot more fragile.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
RATHBONER
Re: Brawling
12/21/2014 07:37 AM CST
>I was going by their level when they were alive.
They've been knocked down one tier (they were the top tier when alive but are second to the Demonwall now) and thats about 15 levels for this type of temporary hunting ground. (from 115/120 then to 105ish now)
>but even my capped spellcasters basically just plink away at them until they keel over.
There's plinking and there's Rapidfire plinking. There's also Pain.
They've been knocked down one tier (they were the top tier when alive but are second to the Demonwall now) and thats about 15 levels for this type of temporary hunting ground. (from 115/120 then to 105ish now)
>but even my capped spellcasters basically just plink away at them until they keel over.
There's plinking and there's Rapidfire plinking. There's also Pain.
THROGG
Re: Brawling
12/21/2014 02:41 PM CST
>>There's plinking and there's Rapidfire plinking. There's also Pain. <<
Clerics and Empaths don't get either :(
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Clerics and Empaths don't get either :(
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
