Help Training 10/14/2014 07:08 PM CDT
I've played GS off and on for MANY years, but this is the first character I stuck with for a good commitment of time. I made her 7 years ago and I would like to think THEN I knew what I was doing. After a brief hiatus of 5 years, I came back last February. Of course I had no idea what I was doing and just randomly trained in things. I think I fixed things up now, but I'm a little confused on where my armor, shield, and dodge should be. I wish I could up picking a bit more, but I'm not sure how doable that is. Any help would be great. She's currently wearing chain mail and uses a medium sized shield.


Level: 49
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Constitution (CON): 83 (16) ... 83 (16)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Agility (AGI): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Discipline (DIS): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Aura (AUR): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Logic (LOG): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Intuition (INT): 89 (24) ... 89 (24)
Wisdom (WIS): 41 (-4) ... 41 (-4)
Influence (INF): 45 (-7) ... 45 (-7)


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 155 55
Shield Use.........................| 155 55
Combat Maneuvers...................| 173 73
Edged Weapons......................| 200 100
Ambush.............................| 200 100
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 102 24
Physical Fitness...................| 175 75
Dodging............................| 200 100
Arcane Symbols.....................| 108 26
Magic Item Use.....................| 108 26
Harness Power......................| 35 7
Survival...........................| 40 8
Disarming Traps....................| 200 100
Picking Locks......................| 200 100
Stalking and Hiding................| 200 100
Perception.........................| 200 100
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 93 21



Thanks!
~Kayse




Kaldonis sniffs at his tube of glue.

You try hard not to grin.

Speaking to Kaldonis, you say, "That explains a lot..."

Astru giggles.

Speaking softly to you, Astru says, "It really does."

You stare at nothing in particular.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/14/2014 11:10 PM CDT
<but I'm a little confused on where my armor, shield, and dodge should be.>

For armor, pick what type of armor you want to be in and get enough ranks to train off the maneuver penalties, then stop. Brig is probably the most popular armor for rogues, though there are many that go for some form of chain. You only need 30 ranks for brig, but with 5 more ranks you'll be able to use augmented chain if you want. Just remember that the heavier the armor, the more it will hinder hiding.

Since your using a medium shield, your shield and dodge training looks good, but you might want to think about getting a small shield with yer training. If you ever decide to us anything bigger then a medium shield, you'd be better off moving ranks from dodge to shields (I'll let someone that knows shields better then me expand on that if they want).

<I wish I could up picking a bit more, but I'm not sure how doable that is. Any help would be great.>

If you stick with the chainmail you're in (I'm assuming it's ASG 13, not double or augmented chain) you can drop 15 points in Armor Use and put the TPs towards picking skills. If you drop down to brig, you can drop 25 ranks (my rogue is level 73 and still in brig, but he prefers to stay in the shadows most of the time).

If you don't have any spells, you can drop the Harness Power completely until you do get a couple.... but if you already have the minor elemental circle through 404, keep the HP. The 8 ranks of Survival prolly isn't doing much other then getting you skinning tasks that will be a pain in the arse to complete, so you can drop that completely too. Also, AS and MIU are nice to have, but dropping your training in one or both of those would free up more points to put towards picking skills if you don't use scrolls or embedded items much.

Lastly, you can prolly do without 24 ranks in MOC unless where you hunt tends to swarm a lot or you tackle warcamps a lot. With your training, I'm assuming you ambush from the shadows most of the time, so force on force shouldn't be a major problem for you and you won't want to be stuck in the open with the increased RT of an MSTRIKE anyway.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 02:55 AM CDT
Since you have no spells, I assume the harness power is for Society reasons? A few ranks of survival seems useless; you might consider dropping those. And why 24 ranks of MOC? Do you actually MStrike? That's eating up a lot of TPs.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 07:55 AM CDT
Rule of thumb for shield size is medium if you train the same in shield and dodge, small if you train more dodge. Unless you have a medium shield that you are particularly attracted to, you should probably be using a small shield. 3x between your defense skills should be adequate.

You'll get better value out of getting 401-404 than training more disarm/picking and I'd think you could take the points out of AS/MIU/perception to get 404 without suffering much.

Armor is a tricky choice. I use chain now (AsG 15 with 90 ranks AU) but with enough post cap training I'll probably go the extreme stealth/magic route and drop back to soft leather.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 10:32 AM CDT
Thanks for all the responses so far. A few comments and questions:


>>Since you have no spells, I assume the harness power is for Society reasons? A few ranks of survival seems useless; you might consider dropping those. And why 24 ranks of MOC? Do you actually MStrike? That's eating up a lot of TPs.<<

Harness power is for COL. The few ranks of survival was for an RP reason. She likes picking flowers--so sentimental. HAHA. Anyways, I can probably get rid of those now. Odd. I thought I had dropped COM down to 5. Someone told me that was the most you needed if you weren't using MSTRIKE. Thoughts on that?

>>You'll get better value out of getting 401-404 than training more disarm/picking and I'd think you could take the points out of AS/MIU/perception to get 404 without suffering much<<

The only thing I was worried about with picking up spells was the redux? I didn't want to jeopardize that much.

>>Rule of thumb for shield size is medium if you train the same in shield and dodge, small if you train more dodge. Unless you have a medium shield that you are particularly attracted to, you should probably be using a small shield. 3x between your defense skills should be adequate.<<

Definitely not attached. I'll pick up a small shield and was actually thinking about doing that. So if I drop my armor down 15 (I can still wear chain), 2x dodge, and 1x shield, I should be good?

>>If you stick with the chainmail you're in (I'm assuming it's ASG 13, not double or augmented chain) you can drop 15 points in Armor Use and put the TPs towards picking skills. If you drop down to brig, you can drop 25 ranks (my rogue is level 73 and still in brig, but he prefers to stay in the shadows most of the time).<<

I actually was in brig until about two months ago. I usually stay in the shadows, the only time I'm not is when there's undead around, they seem to be rather perspective...jerks.

>>If you don't have any spells, you can drop the Harness Power completely until you do get a couple.... but if you already have the minor elemental circle through 404, keep the HP. The 8 ranks of Survival prolly isn't doing much other then getting you skinning tasks that will be a pain in the arse to complete, so you can drop that completely too. Also, AS and MIU are nice to have, but dropping your training in one or both of those would free up more points to put towards picking skills if you don't use scrolls or embedded items much.<<

I actually do use scrolls and embeds a lot so I would like to keep the AS and MUI as much as possible. It's kind of part of her RP too, thus why learning spells would be nice, but like I mentioned I didn't want to jeopardize her combat for it unless it's not that big of a deal.


~Kayse



Kaldonis sniffs at his tube of glue.

You try hard not to grin.

Speaking to Kaldonis, you say, "That explains a lot..."

Astru giggles.

Speaking softly to you, Astru says, "It really does."

You stare at nothing in particular.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 11:02 AM CDT
<I thought I had dropped COM down to 5. Someone told me that was the most you needed if you weren't using MSTRIKE. Thoughts on that?>

If you aren't using MSTRIKE, 5 ranks of MOC isn't doing anything at all for you. 5 ranks is what you need to do a single unfocused MSTRIKE. 10 ranks is what you need to start getting the force on force benefits, but unless you warcamp a lot it's something that can wait until near cap to pick up... esp since there's other things you've said you want.

<The only thing I was worried about with picking up spells was the redux? I didn't want to jeopardize that much.>

You're high enough in levels that four spells shouldn't have much impact at all on redux. If you can find the TPs for it, go for it... the other poster was correct that getting 404 will help picking more then getting more ranks in picking or disarm at his point.

<I actually do use scrolls and embeds a lot so I would like to keep the AS and MUI as much as possible. It's kind of part of her RP too, thus why learning spells would be nice, but like I mentioned I didn't want to jeopardize her combat for it unless it's not that big of a deal.>>

If yer using scrolls and imbeds mostly for 403 and 404, you'll prolly end up not using the skills much since the spells are much more effective self cast then off scrolls or imbeds. If you're using them for other spells, though, it will likely be worth keeping them.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 01:58 PM CDT

<I thought I had dropped COM down to 5. Someone told me that was the most you needed if you weren't using MSTRIKE. Thoughts on that?>

To offset FoF against bandits, I reckon you need 0.5x training.

>If you aren't using MSTRIKE, 5 ranks of MOC isn't doing anything at all for you. 5 ranks is what you need to do a single unfocused MSTRIKE. 10 ranks is what you need to start getting the force on force benefits, but unless you warcamp a lot it's something that can wait until near cap to pick up... esp since there's other things you've said you want.

1 rank gives FoF benefit. FoF effects are gradual. The breakpoints indicate diminishing returns on training not the requirement to activate an FoF offset. FoF itself is gradual with opponents counting fractional amounts depending on level difference so its possible for two low level opponents to count as 1.1 like level opponents for FoF purposes and to be offset completely by 1 rank MOC.

>The only thing I was worried about with picking up spells was the redux? I didn't want to jeopardize that much.

You'd need to analyse the numbers quite closely to see the effect from just 4 spells and you won't notice it unless you do.

>I actually do use scrolls and embeds a lot so I would like to keep the AS and MUI as much as possible. It's kind of part of her RP too, thus why learning spells would be nice, but like I mentioned I didn't want to jeopardize her combat for it unless it's not that big of a deal.

Once you have enough ranks to use them, you need a lot more to boost duration sufficiently to get multiple hunts out of one charge. If all the extra rank is getting you is a bit of extra time spelled while resting, you aren't going to miss it much. Your call on just how much you need for activation though. On a pure wanting guaranteed activation every time I waved a wand, I'd want more than you have, but I manage fine with less on a rogue because I'm more concerned about not getting major failures when putting up buffs rather than combat use.
Reply
Re: Help Training 10/15/2014 05:00 PM CDT
I have a rogue a little older than yours (55 trains) with a fairly similar training scheme, but I'm working toward 404, since self cast lores are more effective than invoked from scrolls or items. You can see that I am saving up MTPs. Please note that there are now shield and armor skills, as well as some new CMan categories. (I was seriously torn between armor evasion and stealth.) The main divergence we have as far as training is concerned is survival and MOC. She's pretty good at picking her own boxes, and more than decent in combat.

The one rank of TWC is there to trigger a bit of extra DS when fighting without a shield; the UAC works better offensively when both hands are empty. Once I get 404, I'll pick up some more HP to go with it; right now I am just using it for a few self-casts of 401 and 101. (I have an enhancive with a couple ranks of HP in it, as well as a couple of ranks of brawling, which is useful). Shielded brawler is for those times when I really want the extra protection of a shield. If there are more than two critters in a room, I use divert to lure the others away; this obviates the need for MOC in most cases.

If you are in the Guild, you can get a couple of skills that are useful in combat, rather than spending precious combat maneuver training points on them, as well as learning to deal with plated boxes.

Hint: Animals and non-corporeal Undead are very difficult to hide from; I try to avoid those unless I am with friends. In a group, I can fight from the open.

>skill
Guennwhfar (at level 55), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 150 50
Shield Use.........................| 178 78
Combat Maneuvers...................| 177 77
Brawling...........................| 220 120
Ambush.............................| 214 114
Physical Fitness...................| 171 71
Dodging............................| 225 125
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 215 115
Picking Locks......................| 214 114
Stalking and Hiding................| 235 135
Perception.........................| 214 114
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 2

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 7 Phy 39 Mnt

>shield info
Guennwhfar, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 3
Deflect the Elements deflect 3

Total Points converted during your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 6
Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 13 days
>armor info
Guennwhfar, your Armor Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Armored Evasion evasion 2


>cman info
Guennwhfar, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Surge of Strength surge 1
Divert divert 3
Vanish vanish 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 2
Reply