Hello all
My current Ranger hunting style is Archery. I'd like to switch to TWC. I just don't know how to make it work. I know Archery is a stronger style, but can TWC be a viable hunting style? Or will I be too gimped. Also a side question. How much armor ranks do I need to wear Double Leather only?
Level 33
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Ranged Weapons.....................| 178 78
Ambush.............................| 146 46
Physical Fitness...................| 130 35
Dodging............................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Survival...........................| 130 35
Stalking and Hiding................| 170 70
Perception.........................| 166 66
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 130 35
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 33
EMAN72
WOLFFC3
Re: TWC questions
06/08/2013 11:28 AM CDT
What's up Eman?
8 ranks to remove the maneuver penalty for double leather. Of course, there are benefits to overtraining in armor.
Shoot me your stats and I can spreadsheet your character. What are you willing to give up and what is mandatory for your training as TWC ranger?
Someone else will have to weigh in on the pros/cons of TWC for a ranger. Archery and rangers go together like peas and carrots but TWC will be fun. One consideration is that you will probably attack from hiding then be exposed for about 5-6 seconds. In my experience the first strike will often stun if not kill and the second strike will do some HP damage (flares on the second strike will be handy). Sword and board may be an option to pump up DS. Melee ambushes from hiding are pretty devastating since you get pushdown and most creatures will die in two rounds of HIDE, AMBUSH, HIDE AMBUSH. Creatures who are your height or shorter and like level will often drop with the first head shot. Guess what I'm saying is TWC may not give you enough quick kills to outweigh the benefits you get from not carrying a shield.
Another option along these lines is to train OHE and Brawl. Get 1 rank of TWC for now (just for UDF). When you ambush you will still be pretty vulnerable but it's a great way to stun with the UCS attack then finish it off with a slash to the head. UCS will also give you versatility that other forms of combat do not allow.
That's just my 2 cents and the only TWC character I've had was an elven rogue up to level 15. With race bonuses, pumped up stats and lots of cmans from pts save by not lockpicking he was pretty tough. Rangers don't really have that option because the cost of TWC is rather prohibitive and TP's for cmans are expensive for a semi.
8 ranks to remove the maneuver penalty for double leather. Of course, there are benefits to overtraining in armor.
Shoot me your stats and I can spreadsheet your character. What are you willing to give up and what is mandatory for your training as TWC ranger?
Someone else will have to weigh in on the pros/cons of TWC for a ranger. Archery and rangers go together like peas and carrots but TWC will be fun. One consideration is that you will probably attack from hiding then be exposed for about 5-6 seconds. In my experience the first strike will often stun if not kill and the second strike will do some HP damage (flares on the second strike will be handy). Sword and board may be an option to pump up DS. Melee ambushes from hiding are pretty devastating since you get pushdown and most creatures will die in two rounds of HIDE, AMBUSH, HIDE AMBUSH. Creatures who are your height or shorter and like level will often drop with the first head shot. Guess what I'm saying is TWC may not give you enough quick kills to outweigh the benefits you get from not carrying a shield.
Another option along these lines is to train OHE and Brawl. Get 1 rank of TWC for now (just for UDF). When you ambush you will still be pretty vulnerable but it's a great way to stun with the UCS attack then finish it off with a slash to the head. UCS will also give you versatility that other forms of combat do not allow.
That's just my 2 cents and the only TWC character I've had was an elven rogue up to level 15. With race bonuses, pumped up stats and lots of cmans from pts save by not lockpicking he was pretty tough. Rangers don't really have that option because the cost of TWC is rather prohibitive and TP's for cmans are expensive for a semi.
DMWCINCY
Re: TWC questions
06/08/2013 06:22 PM CDT
I wish i could remember who, but I know i've hunted with a ranger up to 50 to 60 train range that used TWC pretty effectively. Used Mstrike more then ambush though. I sadly have no idea of training for TWC but know it viable for a while at least.
As said many times on this forum. Its pretty hard to screw up a ranger build.
As said many times on this forum. Its pretty hard to screw up a ranger build.
ZENNSUNNI
Re: TWC questions
06/09/2013 09:13 AM CDT
>I know Archery is a stronger style, but can TWC be a viable hunting style? Or will I be too gimped. Also a side question. How much armor ranks do I need to wear Double Leather only?
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here just to give you food for thought. So, if you go TWC your training costs are going to be high, much like ranged (assuming you go the sniping route), but the payoff will be much, much lower. TWC frankly just isn't a good deal given the extent to which this game has enshrined crits. So take note: you are going to feel weaker than you are as ranged, make no mistake.
Also, you asked about training off double leather. You're definitely going to get hit using TWC, and are gonna want to be in brig at level 33 for sure. I would strongly advise factoring this into your considerations, deciding whether or not you can or will spell tank (you could get away with doubles at that level if you did).
Is it viable? Sure. Will it be redundant as you level and get more and more 1-shot ambush kills? Yes. If you go the open-TWC route, it might make more use of having 2 weapons and you could probably afford to 2x armor to get into augmented chain at 33 (maybe even hauberk?), but at that point you'd start looking like a warrior that paid twice as much for their core combat skills.
In short, I know I sound like a giant naysayer, but I've tried both paths on my ranger, and I just wanted to paint the negatives for your consideration. If you wanna do TWC with a ranger, in my opinion, then you have to want to do TWC on your ranger.
Player of Zeek
I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here just to give you food for thought. So, if you go TWC your training costs are going to be high, much like ranged (assuming you go the sniping route), but the payoff will be much, much lower. TWC frankly just isn't a good deal given the extent to which this game has enshrined crits. So take note: you are going to feel weaker than you are as ranged, make no mistake.
Also, you asked about training off double leather. You're definitely going to get hit using TWC, and are gonna want to be in brig at level 33 for sure. I would strongly advise factoring this into your considerations, deciding whether or not you can or will spell tank (you could get away with doubles at that level if you did).
Is it viable? Sure. Will it be redundant as you level and get more and more 1-shot ambush kills? Yes. If you go the open-TWC route, it might make more use of having 2 weapons and you could probably afford to 2x armor to get into augmented chain at 33 (maybe even hauberk?), but at that point you'd start looking like a warrior that paid twice as much for their core combat skills.
In short, I know I sound like a giant naysayer, but I've tried both paths on my ranger, and I just wanted to paint the negatives for your consideration. If you wanna do TWC with a ranger, in my opinion, then you have to want to do TWC on your ranger.
Player of Zeek
EMAN72
Re: TWC questions
08/16/2013 03:20 PM CDT
Well I like to recap what I ended up doing, I went back to Sword & Board instead of TWC.
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 90 20
Edged Weapons......................| 174 74
Ranged Weapons.....................| 8 1
Ambush.............................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 130 35
Dodging............................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Survival...........................| 130 35
Stalking and Hiding................| 174 74
Perception.........................| 174 74
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 130 35
Trading............................| 10 2
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 35
It's fun. I originally started my Ranger as Sword & Board. I quite enjoy seeing limbs flying about :)
Thing is, am starting to miss Archery now lol. With my current style, I tend to cast my spells more often then with Archery.
I also picked up Shield Bash. Currently Rank 2. I'll admit, am quite disappointed in it. Does it get better and better with each rank? I'll eventually switch back to being a Archer. Probably when I master Fletching. I will make some changes though when I do.
This below is what am thinking of doing. 2x PF for better use of Sigils and I'll still have some points left over.
Thoughts?
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Ranged Weapons.....................| 174 74
Ambush.............................| 130 37
Physical Fitness...................| 174 74
Dodging............................| 130 37
Harness Power......................| 130 37
Survival...........................| 130 37
Stalking and Hiding................| 174 74
Perception.........................| 174 74
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 130 37
Trading............................| 10 2
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 35
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 90 20
Edged Weapons......................| 174 74
Ranged Weapons.....................| 8 1
Ambush.............................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 130 35
Dodging............................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Survival...........................| 130 35
Stalking and Hiding................| 174 74
Perception.........................| 174 74
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 130 35
Trading............................| 10 2
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 35
It's fun. I originally started my Ranger as Sword & Board. I quite enjoy seeing limbs flying about :)
Thing is, am starting to miss Archery now lol. With my current style, I tend to cast my spells more often then with Archery.
I also picked up Shield Bash. Currently Rank 2. I'll admit, am quite disappointed in it. Does it get better and better with each rank? I'll eventually switch back to being a Archer. Probably when I master Fletching. I will make some changes though when I do.
This below is what am thinking of doing. 2x PF for better use of Sigils and I'll still have some points left over.
Thoughts?
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Ranged Weapons.....................| 174 74
Ambush.............................| 130 37
Physical Fitness...................| 174 74
Dodging............................| 130 37
Harness Power......................| 130 37
Survival...........................| 130 37
Stalking and Hiding................| 174 74
Perception.........................| 174 74
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 130 37
Trading............................| 10 2
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 35
IZDEN
Re: TWC questions
08/17/2013 12:10 PM CDT
<< Thoughts?
On your s&b bbuild, drop stalk and hide as 608 works just as fast and there's no chance of staying hidden with a sword.
That frees your s&b build up to get more dodge, lores, spells, CM, etc. Shield bash does get much better, and is fun. So is hamstring... though I've always preferred sweep. Anecdotally, bash works less well against lager foes, sweep better.
Ranged build looks fine, but why single first aid? Herb eating skills truncate (and I was never a career skinner, just better than average). Harness power isn't getting you much mana for tis last five ranks either.
On your s&b bbuild, drop stalk and hide as 608 works just as fast and there's no chance of staying hidden with a sword.
That frees your s&b build up to get more dodge, lores, spells, CM, etc. Shield bash does get much better, and is fun. So is hamstring... though I've always preferred sweep. Anecdotally, bash works less well against lager foes, sweep better.
Ranged build looks fine, but why single first aid? Herb eating skills truncate (and I was never a career skinner, just better than average). Harness power isn't getting you much mana for tis last five ranks either.
KIREN
Re: TWC questions
08/17/2013 01:30 PM CDT
My ranger's been S&B from day one and is post cap now. I freed up points for lores and extra spells early by skimping on Dodge. If you're spending most of your time in the shadows sneaking about unseen, and you've got a shield in your hand when you're caught out, it's not as critical. Plus, 1x ranger spells means you're picking up quite a few phantom Dodge ranks from 618. I believe she was only .5x at the mid levels and didn't catch fully back up to 1x until after she capped. So that's another possibility.
TROUBLE13
Re: TWC questions
08/17/2013 09:13 PM CDT
>> Herb eating skills truncate
This is false, it is exactly every 20 skill bonus.
This is false, it is exactly every 20 skill bonus.
DMWCINCY
Re: TWC questions
08/17/2013 10:01 PM CDT
Here is my skill break down for Pup. he has been sword and board since day one and so far have little trouble hunting with him:
Puptilian (at level 91), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 207 107
Shield Use.........................| 195 95
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93
Edged Weapons......................| 286 186
Ambush.............................| 193 93
Physical Fitness...................| 208 108
Dodging............................| 192 92
Harness Power......................| 190 90
Spirit Mana Control................| 15 3
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 142 42
Survival...........................| 186 86
Stalking and Hiding................| 202 102
Perception.........................| 201 101
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 150 50
First Aid..........................| 187 87
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 61
If you are wondering on PF and Armor PF is for Sunfist and Armor I'm so far aiming for chain but have not made the change yet. he sticks with brig. I stop at 50 ranks for swimming and climbing and so far not have an issue there. Ambush I think is fine as is but I really like to have Stalking and Hiding a bit higher then it is now. I honestly do not know what my goals are training wise after this so I guess I'll just wait until post cap. always open for suggestions if any has it.
Puptilian (at level 91), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 207 107
Shield Use.........................| 195 95
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93
Edged Weapons......................| 286 186
Ambush.............................| 193 93
Physical Fitness...................| 208 108
Dodging............................| 192 92
Harness Power......................| 190 90
Spirit Mana Control................| 15 3
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 142 42
Survival...........................| 186 86
Stalking and Hiding................| 202 102
Perception.........................| 201 101
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 150 50
First Aid..........................| 187 87
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 61
If you are wondering on PF and Armor PF is for Sunfist and Armor I'm so far aiming for chain but have not made the change yet. he sticks with brig. I stop at 50 ranks for swimming and climbing and so far not have an issue there. Ambush I think is fine as is but I really like to have Stalking and Hiding a bit higher then it is now. I honestly do not know what my goals are training wise after this so I guess I'll just wait until post cap. always open for suggestions if any has it.
IZDEN
Re: TWC questions
08/18/2013 12:21 AM CDT
<< Herb eating skills truncate
<<This is false, it is exactly every 20 skill bonus.
Sorry they don't "truncate" but rather go off bonus...
Eating various herbs takes roundtime, and is reduced by training in first aid at a rate of -1 roundtime per 20 skill bonus, rounded up. Thus, two ranks of first aid (which imparts a skill bonus of 10) provides the first -1 roundtime reduction, where 50 ranks of first aid translate into a -8 roundtime reduction (at 150 skill).
<< http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/First_Aid
The point was dial in the auxiliary skills.
<<This is false, it is exactly every 20 skill bonus.
Sorry they don't "truncate" but rather go off bonus...
Eating various herbs takes roundtime, and is reduced by training in first aid at a rate of -1 roundtime per 20 skill bonus, rounded up. Thus, two ranks of first aid (which imparts a skill bonus of 10) provides the first -1 roundtime reduction, where 50 ranks of first aid translate into a -8 roundtime reduction (at 150 skill).
<< http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/First_Aid
The point was dial in the auxiliary skills.
EMAN72
