The Wiki (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Monk ) says Strength and Agility. The play.net Monk page (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/professions/monks.asp ) says the same, as does the stats info page on play.net (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/stats.asp ).
In the web character manager when I go to create a monk, Strength and Agility get the +10 but its Discipline, not Strength, that counts double towards training points. This also seemed to be true in practice (at least at level 0) for the test character I created with 100 Strength and 20 Discipline that had 5 less PTP than I was expecting to get from the formula.
The only reference I could find to Discipline as the Prime stat was at http://www.play.net/gs4/news/prime_requisites.asp , and I have no idea how outdated/relevant that page is (note it also lists the new prime requisites for savants...).
Am I misunderstanding something here?
Fyonn's player
COSTELLOK
GOLDENOAK2
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 11:02 AM UTC
The link that lists discipline as a prime stat is very outdated. Discipline was initially supposed to be a prime stat, then it got changed. Its possible though that the points formula was never fixed from the initial monk design.
DOUG
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 02:08 PM UTC
>>but its Discipline, not Strength, that counts double towards training points
There is a physical and a mental stat that counts this way (not double, but. . .) for all characters. Irrespective of profession and race, those two hybrid stats are Discipline and Aura.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Stats
A better way to state it is that Aura and Discipline count in both Physical and Mental training point calculations. The way they count is shown in the formula below.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Training_points
This explains why when you start with a 20 Discipline, you end up with less PTP - because Discipline (and Aura) count towards both PTP and MTP.
Doug
There is a physical and a mental stat that counts this way (not double, but. . .) for all characters. Irrespective of profession and race, those two hybrid stats are Discipline and Aura.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Stats
A better way to state it is that Aura and Discipline count in both Physical and Mental training point calculations. The way they count is shown in the formula below.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Training_points
This explains why when you start with a 20 Discipline, you end up with less PTP - because Discipline (and Aura) count towards both PTP and MTP.
Doug
RATHBONER
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 03:55 PM UTC
The web creation mangler gives training point availability as if DIS/AGI were the prime stats.
The points actually in the possession of a created level 0 character are calculated for STR/AGI as the prime stats.
As far as I can tell there is a bug in the points the mangler assigns and if it allowed you to train too much (e.g. as a result of setting STR to 30 and DIS to 100) I'd expect something to be forcibly untrained on character creation, but haven't tested that.
The points actually in the possession of a created level 0 character are calculated for STR/AGI as the prime stats.
As far as I can tell there is a bug in the points the mangler assigns and if it allowed you to train too much (e.g. as a result of setting STR to 30 and DIS to 100) I'd expect something to be forcibly untrained on character creation, but haven't tested that.
COSTELLOK
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 04:17 PM UTC
>A better way to state it is that Aura and Discipline count in both Physical and Mental training point calculations. The way they count is shown in the formula below.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Training_points
What I mean by "less than I expect" is "less than the formula you linked to gives". Concrete example: A monk with these stats:
100 Strength
60 Constitution
40 Dexterity
40 Agility
20 Discipline
60 Aura
100 Logic
90 Intuition
90 Wisdom
60 Influence
Should have
PTP: 25+(2x100+60+40+2x40+(20+60)/2)/20 =46
MTP: 25+(100+90+90+60+(20+60)/2)/20 = 44
Instead, the Mangler shows them with 41/44 (which matches up with if Discipline counted double instead of Strength).
>The web creation mangler gives training point availability as if DIS/AGI were the prime stats. The points actually in the possession of a created level 0 character are calculated for STR/AGI as the prime stats.
This wasn't the case for me. The created character also had 41/44 training points.
Fyonn's player
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Training_points
What I mean by "less than I expect" is "less than the formula you linked to gives". Concrete example: A monk with these stats:
100 Strength
60 Constitution
40 Dexterity
40 Agility
20 Discipline
60 Aura
100 Logic
90 Intuition
90 Wisdom
60 Influence
Should have
PTP: 25+(2x100+60+40+2x40+(20+60)/2)/20 =46
MTP: 25+(100+90+90+60+(20+60)/2)/20 = 44
Instead, the Mangler shows them with 41/44 (which matches up with if Discipline counted double instead of Strength).
>The web creation mangler gives training point availability as if DIS/AGI were the prime stats. The points actually in the possession of a created level 0 character are calculated for STR/AGI as the prime stats.
This wasn't the case for me. The created character also had 41/44 training points.
Fyonn's player
DOUG
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 05:01 PM UTC
>>This wasn't the case for me. The created character also had 41/44 training points.
Aha. Thanks for pointing that out. Definitely sounds 'defective'.
Doug
Aha. Thanks for pointing that out. Definitely sounds 'defective'.
Doug
RATHBONER
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 05:02 PM UTC
>This wasn't the case for me. The created character also had 41/44 training points.
100/90/80/80/60/50/60/50/50/40 has 54:37 points. Created in Shattered a long time ago to reserve a name and never played but going through the skills manager today didn't result in changing the points.
Maybe there's a HSN change coming in Prime Stats that is only partially implemented. I have reckoned for a lon time that it doesn't make sense for monks to have two purely physical prime stats.
DOUG
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 05:12 PM UTC
>>A monk with these stats:
Just as a quick aside, can you actually exit the mangler with these stats? I thought that only one stat could be above 90, so if you can, that might be another defect. I'm not sure, though - been a while since I tripped the mangler fantastic. But it's unclear if you're just comparing points, or if you actually dropped in.
Doug
Just as a quick aside, can you actually exit the mangler with these stats? I thought that only one stat could be above 90, so if you can, that might be another defect. I'm not sure, though - been a while since I tripped the mangler fantastic. But it's unclear if you're just comparing points, or if you actually dropped in.
Doug
ALSTHAR
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 05:59 PM UTC
<<Just as a quick aside, can you actually exit the mangler with these stats? I thought that only one stat could be above 90, so if you can, that might be another defect. I'm not sure, though - been a while since I tripped the mangler fantastic. But it's unclear if you're just comparing points, or if you actually dropped in.
Doug>>
Memory is fuzzy but, isn't that before the +10 profession bonus? So one stat was placed at 100, the other at 90, then gets the +10 profession bonus = 100 as well
Doug>>
Memory is fuzzy but, isn't that before the +10 profession bonus? So one stat was placed at 100, the other at 90, then gets the +10 profession bonus = 100 as well
DOUG
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/08/2015 06:01 PM UTC
Might be, might be. Thanks for the reminder! Have to test, now.
Doug
Doug
COSTELLOK
Re: What are the Prime Requisites for Monks?
08/11/2015 08:47 AM UTC
Quick followup:
When I reached level 1, I got a message "Training adjusted to your current level. You have regained use of 5 Phy.", which put everything back to the right value. So I guess in practice it fixes itself too quickly to have much of an impact on anything.
Fyonn's player
When I reached level 1, I got a message "Training adjusted to your current level. You have regained use of 5 Phy.", which put everything back to the right value. So I guess in practice it fixes itself too quickly to have much of an impact on anything.
Fyonn's player
