>>If nothing else, the lack of armor will leave them vulnerable to CS based spells. CvA of 25 vs -21(MBP)? Significant difference there. -- Throgg

>Throgg, you give the (full, not just torso) plate wearer credit for wearing magical armor, but not the guy in robes? :) Sure, it's only five points, but every little bit helps. - Krakii

It's actually 13 pts (46 vs 33).

Enchanted robes CvA: 15
Enchanted MBP CvA: -18
Enchanted FP CvA: -21

But I do agree with the sentiment of several posters that open combat monks need a bit of a boost. Their first strike attack is the area I feel needs to be improved. I would love to see the Jab tier-up rate increased by 50% for non-hiders. It is too frequently, IMO, just a 3 second RT adder.

Mark

Here is a typical hunt for my monk. Notice a few things in this and this is typical of what I have seen with my bard who brawls as well. I only show my monk here.

---

[Smuggling Tunnels, Guard Post]
A small wooden table, missing a leg, wobbles in the center of the floor. A dice bowl still sits on top of it, the pips on the cubes inside it nearly worn off from time and use. Beneath it is a small notebook, covered in dirt and rat footprints. Two lanterns burn overhead, bright and constant despite having no fuel. You also see a wraith.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, east, southeast, northwest
>.jab
[Script jab is running, Esc to cancel, Shift-Esc to pause]
>stance off
>jab
>stance def
You are now in an offensive stance.
You attempt to jab a wraith!
You have decent positioning against a wraith.
UAF: 153 vs UDF: 165 = 0.927 * MM: 94 + d100: 74 = 161
... and hit for 5 points of damage!
Quick blow to the belly causes the wraith to drift backwards slightly.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
...wait 3 seconds.
R>.kick
>stance off
>kick
You are now in an offensive stance.
>stance def
You attempt to kick a wraith!
You have good positioning against a wraith.
UAF: 133 vs UDF: 165 = 0.806 * MM: 102 + d100: 73 = 155
... and hit for 51 points of damage!
Hit passes right through the midsection.
Nothing hurts like an empty stomach.
The wraith is knocked into a sitting position!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
...wait 5 seconds.
R>.kick
A wraith slowly stands back up.
R>stance off
>kick
You are now in an offensive stance.
>stance def
You attempt to kick a wraith!
You have good positioning against a wraith.
UAF: 133 vs UDF: 163 = 0.815 * MM: 100 + d100: 37 = 118
... and hit for 26 points of damage!
A strong blow bursts the right calf open in a spray of vapor.
New muscle erupts from the middle of the wound, consuming the injured tissue.
The wraith is knocked to its knees!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
...wait 5 seconds.
R>.jab
>stance off
>jab
>stance def
You are now in an offensive stance.
You attempt to jab a wraith!
You have excellent positioning against a wraith.
UAF: 153 vs UDF: 163 = 0.938 * MM: 115 + d100: 37 = 144
... and hit for 8 points of damage!
A fine blow splits the back of the hand.
Tendrils of vapor intertwine as the wound seals before your eyes.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
...wait 3 seconds.
A wraith slowly stands back up.
R>.kick
[script aborted]
[Script kick is running, Esc to cancel, Shift-Esc to pause]
>stance off
>kick
You are now in an offensive stance.
>stance def
You attempt to kick a wraith!
You have excellent positioning against a wraith.
UAF: 133 vs UDF: 163 = 0.815 * MM: 112 + d100: 85 = 176
... and hit for 72 points of damage!
Painful attack flays the leg from thigh to calf.
New skin lies, snakelike, beneath the old.
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the wraith's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
The wraith falls to the ground motionless.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

---

Sometimes it may take fewer shots, and sometimes more, but mostly I am knocking them prone almost constantly and thus they are not attacking me. This only took 5 shots to set-up and kill. It was also in full defensive stance, since I never let it get out of it. Once it swings or cast a spell on me it's UDF drops to around 104, and it is pretty short work when that happens. I also ran out of blesses on my 4x footwraps here and my UAF should have been 153, which of course would have made this fight even shorter on most occasions. When I do have my wraps blessed I tend to stance dance them to make the most of my UAC attacks, but once I have lost them, I don't bother waiting to hit em like I did here.

--Zizzle

<<<Here is a typical hunt for my monk. Notice a few things in this and this is typical of what I have seen with my bard who brawls as well. I only show my monk here.>>>>

This illustrates really well why UAF is secondary to MM. Your UAF is quite low compared to the wraith's UDF, but because your MM is consistently high, you're still getting good endrolls. And your not even aiming shots. Once I get the tier up message, I usually go for a leg, just for the knockdown. Then when I tier-up to excellent, it's smite, then punch head, grapple neck, or kick abdomen for the kill (all good kill shots, try 'em).

Thanks for posting.

~ Heathyr

>>Honestly, I find any discussion about characters under 10th level rather pointless. It takes, what, a week to get to 10th? Tops? At that point, everything changes anyway, since you get 4x gear, and actually have some decent health, mana, skills and spells. Don't get me wrong, I have a blast playing through those early levels (I may be in the minority). But they go too fast to worry much about.<<


Oooohh! Don't even get me started on this! I remember when you had to be level 20 to hold vultite/4x gear! IMO, the absolutely worst thing the game did was to compress the ability to hold 4x gear dwn to level 10. It used to be a major achievement milestone, now it's a minor waypoint on the race to cap.



The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

Very few people treat the path to cap as a race.

>>Yeah, it's never been level 20 to hold vultite. It just took longer to hit level 10 before GSIV and triple X.<<

Oh, bloody heck. I could swear that when I first started you needed to be 20 trains to use Vultite. Or maybe it was level 10 and just seemed like it took forever. ::frowns::

Heckfire; can a NIR comment here? Am I just going totally senile? I am talking Waaaaay back, 15 years ago.



The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

Yeah its never been 1 level/+1 enchant and I started playing in 91/92.

As for Slippery Mind, the scaling I was talking about isn't affected by 1202 scaling up to higher AsG's. You always get the cloth level bonuses even if your 1202 is the equivalent of MBP. Slippery Mind's tiers are in reference to actual armor only.

I do think that not just monk's but UAC in general is a great way to level young characters, it rivals swinging a claid and for some setups is better. Especially if you're out of your 30 days but still want to use melee to level before fixskilling to a pure build and your agidex sucks.

Perhaps, but I believe the dye is cast.

Okay, now going way too far off topic. Um, yeah monks!

~James
Player of Septimius

"Perhaps, but I believe the dye is cast." -- Septimius

That's the wort thing I've heard all day.

.

.

<flee!>

Whee! Finally figured out how to hunt with my low level monk!

>>
A carrion worm charges at you!
AS: +39 vs DS: +47 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +60 = +82
A clean miss.
> at
You swing a fine ora longsword at a carrion worm!
AS: +102 vs DS: +47 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +47 = +143
... and hit for 28 points of damage!
The worm rolls over and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R> loot
You search the carrion worm.
It had nothing of interest.
A carrion worm decays into compost.
> look
[Coastal Cliffs]
Bits of damp seaweed lay strewn across the ground. The crushed tendrils of a red anemone lay drying in the sun, still wriggling feebly with the last vestiges of life. Eighty feet below, the sea crashes against the rocks, and the spray is but a fine mist on your face. You also see some flowing robes, a dagger and a ruined ashen bone pillar.
Obvious paths: east, south, northwest
> nw
[Coastal Cliffs]
A large tree clings tenaciously to the edge of the cliff, its roots dug deep into the face of the rock. Branches like skeletal fingers form an arch overhead, and only a sparse scattering of yellowish-green leaves attests to the fact that it still lives.
Obvious paths: southeast, west
> w
[Coastal Cliffs]
A low, flat rock rests beside the path. A seedy patch of fragrant wildflowers grows beside it. The wind seems gentler, and it is slightly warmer here, perhaps because there are no trees nearby to lend their shade.
Obvious paths: east, west
> w
[Coastal Cliffs]
The mountains rise up majestically to the south, blue-grey stone sprinkled with patches of green and yellow where the forest tries to carve life out of the barren rock. You feel very small, caught between these breathtaking summits and the seemingly infinite sea to the north. To the west, the terrain is a jumble of broken rock and steep inclines, making further travel in that direction impractical. You also see a sea nymph and a weathered white granite fortress.
Obvious paths: east
> at
You swing a fine ora longsword at a sea nymph!
AS: +102 vs DS: +10 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +37 = +170
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Downward slash across the sea nymph's left thigh!
Gouges bone!
The sea nymph is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R> at
You swing a fine ora longsword at a sea nymph!
AS: +102 vs DS: -10 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +14 = +167
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
A sea nymph screams and falls to the ground grasping her mangled left leg.
The sea nymph screams one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R> loot
You search the sea nymph.
It had a flowing white robe, a dagger.
It had 107 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 107 coins.
It had a deep purple amethyst on it!
It had nothing else of value.
A sea nymph decays into compost.<<

Oh, using I'M OHE and not UCS. I'm kicking low level critter butt.



The bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling for you but not for me

>>Who says I was quoting Seutonius who was quoting Caesar? I prefer the meaning of the ink being cast into the water. :)<<

::Caesar wades into the Rubicon, the 10th legion following behind him. His quill pens get wet and ink from them stains the water.::

"Ack" cries Julius. "The dye is cast!".

Umm, sorry, it just doesn't have the dramatic impact of the original quote.


The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

>Maybe they could just change the spell description to state that the magic used in hardening the skin also helps prevent spells from harming the caster in the way that other physical and sonic armors do.

Ironskin works the same way other physical armors do. Everything with plate skin gets the CvA of skin, not plate.

External armor gives hindrance. You pay for obstructing incoming magic by also obstructing outgoing magic. No way do I want hindrance from 1202. If you want CvA, wear armor and give up casting.

If anything needs to be done its in the CMans, not the spells. Give the spells more boosts and the main beneficiaries would be pures not monks.

<<<External armor gives hindrance.>>>

Yep. Sonic Armor also has the same hindrance as the real thing.

~ Heathyr

Yeah that's another problem with 1202. I went through the numbers in the Minor Mental folder in my 1202 suggestion thread and not only is there no CvA with it but the tp costs for ml:t are out of this world when compared to training armor use for other squares or even monks. Even if the CvA stays the same with 1202 I think monks could use either a boost in their innate armor level, an easier seed/scheme or a lowering of mental lore costs. Maybe a combination of those things.

Without the CvA boost, training for increased 1202 AsG just isn't worth it. I don't plan on training past 5 or 15 until near cap. I'm trying to resist just throwing my hands up and training Armor Use heh.

It has never been level 20 to hold +20 (vultite). There was a time when level restrictions didn't exist for enchanted gear at all, as a matter of fact.

---

I remembered the day they changed this too. Wondering why I dropped my vultite weapon to the ground when I logged on with an under level 10 character, and then couldn't pick it up! That happened to a lot of people if I recall.

--Zizzle

>1202 can also be dispelled. :)
ALUVIUS

Seems like asking for a modifier to decrease the chances of dispelling wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't see the problem with it being implemented, as long as it wasn't some absurdly high number.



-farmer

<<<Under the current system, you'll likely not dispel a mental spell unless you are using mental dispel or the target has already lost all of their spirit/elemental spells. In other words, in terms of PvP and most critter interactions, mental spells won't typically be the first spell dispelled.>>>

At least until new critters are introduced, or old ones revamped to take advantage of the MnM circle. Not to detract from the point. :)

~ Heathyr