Have read this forum and gotten some useful advice on training approaches to a pure Dwarven Cleric. I have attempted to follow it but running into challenges trying to hunt my own level (would love to hunt above if possible).

The first challenge is that I'm running out of mana before I kill much. The second challenge is that I'm getting hit even at defensive by creates my own level.

Here's how the build looks:

Level O Stats
Strength (STR): 30
Constitution (CON): 30
Dexterity (DEX): 60
Agility (AGI): 60
Discipline (DIS): 20
Aura (AUR): 90
Logic (LOG): 100
Intuition (INT): 100
Wisdom (WIS): 100
Influence (INF): 70

Leve 5 Stats (current)
Strength (STR): 36
Constitution (CON): 36
Dexterity (DEX): 60
Agility (AGI): 61
Discipline (DIS): 26
Aura (AUR): 91
Logic (LOG): 100
Intuition (INT): 100
Wisdom (WIS): 100
Influence (INF): 72

Skills
40 Armor Use
30 Physical Fitness
30 Arcane Symbols
30 Magic Item Use
30 Harness Power
30 Spirit Mana Control
30 Spiritual Lore - Religion
30 First Aid

Spells
Circle of Magic: Minor Spiritual (3 total ranks)
Circle of Magic: Major Spiritual (4 total ranks)
Circle of Magic: Cleric (14 total ranks)

While hunting, I'm wielding a +5 Runestaff and casting 302 exclusively. Here's what my CS looks like:

You gesture at a leaper.
A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses a leaper.
CS: +58 - TD: +18 + CvA: +25 + d100: +21 == +86
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

I'm wearing reinforced leather (no DS bonus) and can't afford anything more fancy than that at this point.

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At level 5, are there any suggestions on what I should fix?

It may be a few levels before you can go from belled to fried off a single head of mana.

A couple of things that will help you, increase your discipline, this stat affects the mana bonus you get from meditation. And if you aren't meditating already to more quickly get your mana back, you'll want to start doing so.

You can actually drop the magic item use, arcane symbols, religion lore, and first aid for now, using those points you can probably get another spell rank and have some points left over. I went with 203 then trained up the minor spirit circle while doubling in cleric spells, during your thirty days after 103/203 you could just focus on cleric spells unless you find yourself needing the TD boost from 107. I'd also suggest you max out physical fitness each level, right now for health and later for creature maneuver defense, it looks like you are two ranks shy.

It appears you are smite aligned, so find yourself some undead to hunt that are wearing the least amount of armor possible(preferably none), shouldn't be hard at your level. I suggest you flag channelincant on. Then when you go to fight something wait for it to swing at you, stow your runestaff, go offensive, and incant 302(Probably want to macro this, or an alias if you've been conscripted into the army of lich users like most of us). This should have you channeling at your target offensively with two empty hands(Phantom +40 to endrolls of warding spells that hit). For the moment this may leave you a bit vulnerable so be careful as you hunt, the channeling gives you 3 seconds of hard round time but it makes your spells hit a good bit harder when they do. If you can be hit while in offensive, make sure to pull your runestaff back out and go defensive unless you stun/kill the creature. Once you hit level 7, you're DS will get a nice boost from 307, then again at level 10 from 310. Make sure you have a full head of mana when you cast these for the first time because with your cleric ranks they will eat up more then you think.

You need to meditate, at least if you have a decent DIS, you need to meditate. Its not so painful running out of mana if you fill straight back up again in a single pulse, which you can do at low level.

You need to channel.

Channelincant is buggy. If you are using it, make sure the results say channel rather than gesture. If you hit the bug, you'll get the hard RT, but no bonus. I use a macro with "channel target" in it to make sure I actually get channeled spells.

You channel at a lesser mummy
CS:...

or get yourself a macro which stows your runestaff, goes to offensive stance and channels. You won't increase the rate at which you hit targets, but when you have a 40% chance of missing, you will do a huge amount of extra damage on the hits compared to casting.

Treat it like stance dancing. Prep in defensive, wait for the critter to swing and miss, and unload.

and get yourself another macro for going back to defensive and pulling the runestaff back out.

Your training is fine. Just pile on the cleric spells if you can't think of anything else you really want to have. 204 and 107 are good places to stop MjS and MnS until you are up to level+21. There's (almost) no point in stopping on a multiple of 3. If you get 203, get 204.

However, you are looking at improving your effectiveness by a % or two by tweaking training. Channeling and meditating will double and triple your effectiveness.

Meditate on a node, like TSC or where ever the center of town is where you are based. You can also see a list of other nodes on krakiipedia if you want.

About the spells, it has to do with CS, you get CS for secondary circles just not as much as you would from your primary for a good while. However, secondary circles tend to provide more utility and DS, especially compared to over training in the primary where you don't often get those bonuses. For secondary circles you get .3333 CS per rank up to 2/3 your level. The reason he says to go up to 204 is because that will give you another CS point, CS rounds up. So your 1.3332 bonus from those four ranks becomes 2 CS.

The first 10 levels or so are difficult for a pure caster. Not only do you lack enough mana, but your warding margins won't be as great as they will be later on. For this reason, many players of pures start off with weapons, then change to a pure build at the end of the 30 day rapid skill change grace period.

Can you still change your stats? You have too many stats at 90-100 and too many that are very weak. Strength and con of 30? Yeesh! Discipline 20? Arg!

Wisdom and logic are both at 100 already; no room for further growth. I know you want a lot of MTPs right away, but I usuaully compromise when making a new character. I don't aim for maxxed stats at level 100 (most of my gals will never see that), so I put my main stats at 70 (80 after bonus) and then shore up any weaknesses (higher agi/dex for giantkin and dwarves, etc.)

For pure casters I try to get 2x in HP. At the start 1 more mana per rank seems miniscule, but at cap that's an extra 100 mana.



The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

Re Rathboner and Trouble13: Meditate at nearest node - got it.

Re Throgg:

I played 0-5 based on your recommended TWH approach in other threads and that went well. There was 1-2 threads where people claimed they were doing fine as a pure spell caster by level 5 so I thought I'd try but I'm finding it hard as well.

The motivation for my stat choices was trying to have as many mental points as possible while still being able to have functional str, con, dex, and agi for day to day survival.

I estimated I need ~62 mental training points per training worth of skills, but I could only get to ~56 mental training points at level 0.

You're right that this hurts my medium and long term stats and I do intend to re-allocate stats before the 30 days are up to something better designed to max stats over ~50 levels.

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By the way, I also was challenged trying to have enough training points from level 0 to cover your training plan I see in http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/GemStone%20IV/Clerics/So%20You%20Want%20to%20be%20a%20Cleric%3F/thread/1427669.

I suspect that similar to this thread, there are some things a Two Handed Weapon Cleric should train in at level 0+ at 1x or 2x and some they have to wait and catch up on later, right?

Are the must haves each level:

Armor Use
Shield Use
Brawling
Two Handed Weapon
Physical Fitness
Harness Power
Spells (2x)

And then everything else as possible?

Thanks for your thoughts.

I wouldn't worry about stretching stats for the last possible training point. Training points come very fast as you level.

Set your stats to whatever best helps you by the direct stat effect, and if you have one less cleric spell at level 5, its not going to be nearly as significant as the DS you can get from AGI, the extra experience you get from LOG, the extra mana and CS you get from WIS, the extra experience and mana from DIS, the extra carrying capacity from STR, etc. If you are using your 30 day stats for extremes, go for the extremes in stat bonuses that are useful to you, rather than an extra few training points. (and give yourself a few days to check that you can actually manage at whatever you plan your long terms to be, rather than waiting till the 30th day to set them)

I'd do it something like that. I might find a few more for CON from AUR or DIS or INT if it wasn't a dwarf, but dwarf CON is pretty huge.

>>give yourself a few days to check that you can actually manage at whatever you plan your long terms to be, rather than waiting till the 30th day to set them<<

Ohhh, yes, good advice!

The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me