Bard gurus,
Is the number of phantom dodge ranks you receive from 1019 and 911 capped in any way?
As I look at the spell descriptions (returning after an absence), I see 20 dodge ranks from 911, and +20 from 1019 (+1 every 2 ranks).
If I'm level 19 and 1x'd in Dodge with both of these spells, am I actually tripled in dodge?
(Only level 16 at the moment, but do hunt with 911)
Thanks,
Morden, player of.
MITHRENEK
TROUBLE13
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/13/2013 09:56 PM CDT
There is no cap on the amount of phantom dodge a character can have other then the caps placed on the spells themselves.
MITHRENEK
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/16/2013 09:09 PM CDT
>There is no cap on the amount of phantom dodge a character can have other then the caps placed on the spells themselves.
Isn't that indirectly saying yes?
If a level 1 character has mass blur or mobility, that's 20 dodge ranks, so 20x dodge. I agree there has to be a cap somewhere, probably with the spells themselves.
Are the spell caps assumed to be only level based (to prevent the 20x scenario), or perhaps to limit the buff to that of a 3x trained person (so a 3x trained dodge would receive less benefit?) ?
KRAKII
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/17/2013 08:50 AM CDT
No, a first-level person is perfectly welcome to receive the benefit of Mass Blur. Note that Mass Blur does not have an increasing benefit, but is instead a flat bonus (like the Elemental Defense 1/2/3 series of spells).
Song of Mirrors and Mobility are both increasing-benefit spells. The more spells you know in the list, the higher the benefit. Both of those spells are capped, to prevent someone from massively overtraining in that spell-list and getting a benefit deemed to be too powerful for their level.
Song of Mirrors and Mobility are both increasing-benefit spells. The more spells you know in the list, the higher the benefit. Both of those spells are capped, to prevent someone from massively overtraining in that spell-list and getting a benefit deemed to be too powerful for their level.
MITHRENEK
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/17/2013 10:42 PM CDT
Ok. I know I'm blond, but I'm usually not this thick-headed.
How can there not be a cap on any of following: actual dodge ranks, evade chance, or phantom dodge ranks from spells?
A level 1 person with any of the above (not 1035, of course), would be 20x trained in dodge (via phantom ranks). If 3x is 15% chance to evade, that's an even 100% chance to evade... I'm sure I had mass blurs regularly at level 1, and I know I was hit.
Do any/all of the spells provide phantom dodge ranks for purpose of dodge DS, but not actually increase evade percentage?
Morden, player of a bard, too.
How can there not be a cap on any of following: actual dodge ranks, evade chance, or phantom dodge ranks from spells?
A level 1 person with any of the above (not 1035, of course), would be 20x trained in dodge (via phantom ranks). If 3x is 15% chance to evade, that's an even 100% chance to evade... I'm sure I had mass blurs regularly at level 1, and I know I was hit.
Do any/all of the spells provide phantom dodge ranks for purpose of dodge DS, but not actually increase evade percentage?
Morden, player of a bard, too.
KRAKII
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/18/2013 08:58 AM CDT
Who cares about "20x trained"? He's got +20 ranks of the skill, because he happened to be passing through while some powerful Mage was casting a group spell.
Note that a 5th level Rogue can have more ranks, and that 1st and 5th level characters can realistically be going to the same area.
.
Any of the spells that give a flat bonus, give a flat bonus. (Some of them have a Lore component for "now with extra bonus!")
Some of the spells--Mobility and Song of Mirrors are the ones that leap out--give an increasing bonus, but frequently it is only to the caster, or the spell is self-cast-only to begin with.
Those that have factors to increase them are typically capped at "no more bonus than the level of the caster" so that you don't get some mutant triple-training in spells to get outrageous benefits. (Note that for Mobility and Song of Mirrors, that would correspond to "some mutant double-training in spells", since they are Semis.)
Note that a 5th level Rogue can have more ranks, and that 1st and 5th level characters can realistically be going to the same area.
.
Any of the spells that give a flat bonus, give a flat bonus. (Some of them have a Lore component for "now with extra bonus!")
Some of the spells--Mobility and Song of Mirrors are the ones that leap out--give an increasing bonus, but frequently it is only to the caster, or the spell is self-cast-only to begin with.
Those that have factors to increase them are typically capped at "no more bonus than the level of the caster" so that you don't get some mutant triple-training in spells to get outrageous benefits. (Note that for Mobility and Song of Mirrors, that would correspond to "some mutant double-training in spells", since they are Semis.)
PRICKLIES
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/18/2013 10:41 AM CDT
>>Who cares about "20x trained"? He's got +20 ranks of the skill, because he happened to be passing through while some powerful Mage was casting a group spell.
Yeah, but just imagine how well he'll be able to dodge kobolds... that's gotta be overpowered. Someone's gotta look out for those little rascals.
Yeah, but just imagine how well he'll be able to dodge kobolds... that's gotta be overpowered. Someone's gotta look out for those little rascals.
MITHRENEK
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/18/2013 12:43 PM CDT
>Who cares about "20x trained"? He's got +20 ranks of the skill, because he happened to be passing through while some powerful Mage was casting a group spell.
If he was 20x trained in dodge, and 3x dodge gives 15% chance to evade, that level 1 person would have 100% chance to evade. I'm nearly certain that's not what really happens. Therefor, something is capped: dodge ranks from spells (ignoring the level bonuses on a per spell basis), total ranks of dodge (effective), total chance to evade, etc.
The prior posts say there are no caps. I don't see how that's possible, and a level 1 person with 20 dodge ranks (or heck, 40 if you add mobility) does not evade 100% of the time.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/18/2013 12:49 PM CDT
It is capped or there are diminishing returns at some point beyond 3x training.
-- Robert
Inside a woven copper strand basket with a partially melted handle, you see an indigo shade-newt, a scattering of deathstone granules, a miniature house-shaped topiary, and a carved miniature twisted tree with a jagged burn mark down the trunk.
-- Robert
Inside a woven copper strand basket with a partially melted handle, you see an indigo shade-newt, a scattering of deathstone granules, a miniature house-shaped topiary, and a carved miniature twisted tree with a jagged burn mark down the trunk.
KRAKII
Re: Question on cap of dodge ranks?
09/18/2013 01:18 PM CDT
I'm not saying your math is incorrect, but you're using "real" math instead of GemStone math. :)
Take a look at, and particularly the third-to-last paragraph (the one after the 'Armor Hindrance penalty' paragraph):
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/combat_guide/factors.asp#dodge
A first level character could have three (3) training sessions. That'd be nine (9) ranks, assuming a tripler.
If the spell grants +20 phantom ranks, that's (only just a little bit better than) double that. A bonus of double the skill on top of the skill itself comes out to (just a little bit better than) triple.
.
The triple-trained 1st level character would have about a 15% chance to Evade. Triple that would be (just a little bit better than) 45% chance to Evade.
.
.
GemStone math. <grin>
Take a look at, and particularly the third-to-last paragraph (the one after the 'Armor Hindrance penalty' paragraph):
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/combat_guide/factors.asp#dodge
A first level character could have three (3) training sessions. That'd be nine (9) ranks, assuming a tripler.
If the spell grants +20 phantom ranks, that's (only just a little bit better than) double that. A bonus of double the skill on top of the skill itself comes out to (just a little bit better than) triple.
.
The triple-trained 1st level character would have about a 15% chance to Evade. Triple that would be (just a little bit better than) 45% chance to Evade.
.
.
GemStone math. <grin>
