subdue vs. subdual strike 02/09/2016 05:54 AM CST
I noticed getting hit by both from bandits that one was much feebler than the other. Somewhat to my surprise, when I looked up the messaging in the wiki, the one that was much feebler was the rogue guild skill.

So I trained a rank of subdual strike and went and tested it.

...

Subdue. Grandmaster of the guild.

[Roll result: 212 (open d100: 10) Bonus: 32]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a rabid squirrel's head!
The rabid squirrel is paralyzed and is driven to its knees!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Bonus is 30 for a blackjack, where the other 2 comes from I am not sure, maybe a little bonus for a halfling being a little larger than a squirrel.

Skill = roll result - roll = 202.
...

Subdual strike. 1 rank in it.

H>cman sstr
You spring from hiding and strike at a rabid squirrel!
[Roll result: 202 (open d100: -10) Bonus: 42]
You deliver a blow to a rabid squirrel's right eye with your blackjack!
...18 damage!
The squirrel is stunned!
The squirrel is dazed!

Your vultite blackjack erupts with a plume of steam!

... 20 points of damage!
Scalding steam blisters right arm with painful splotches.
The rabid squirrel twitches its tail one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Bonus is an extra 10 due to being hidden (not required for subdual strike though it is for subdue)

Skill 212.

Despite having maximum ranks in subdue, and minimum ranks in subdual strike, I am better at subdual strike. There's something badly wrong here.


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Re: subdue vs. subdual strike 02/11/2016 08:34 PM CST

See if you get the same result on something like level, or close to it.
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Re: subdue vs. subdual strike 02/12/2016 07:22 AM CST
Thats why I did the squirrel test. Bandits do far better with subdual strike than subdue at like level, and the reason is, subdue has about a modifier of -60 compared to subdual strike.
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Re: subdue vs. subdual strike 02/18/2016 08:25 AM CST
Subdue should definitely be more effective on more creatures since head protection already limits the effectiveness. However, also consider that subdue is more debilitating than subdual strike. The RT, potential stun and slow effect of subdual strike should be easier to impose than the potential paralysis of subdue but probably not -60. I am curious how it scales with level, though.
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Re: subdue vs. subdual strike 02/18/2016 09:06 AM CST
I don't have the capability to do like level testing (except from observing bandits attacking a warrior). I think the nearest I'd have a chance at testing subdue with a rogue would be 14 levels below (aivren).
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Re: subdue vs. subdual strike 05/14/2017 02:51 AM CDT
Figured an annual reminder wouldn't be remiss that this skill is still unchanged and terrible. When hours and hours of guild training is worse than 2 cman points worth of subdual strike, something is seriously wrong.

Please at least start by removing the penalty for armor as this just entirely gimps the skill.
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