So while using a blackjack to subdue a target would blunt training improve my chances? If so what's a decent number of ranks.
Thanks
WINSTEADJ2
THROGG
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks
03/29/2015 11:39 PM CDT
I'm pretty sure blunt training has nothing to do with it. Blackjack gives a bonus in and of itself; other factors are relative levels, subdue ranks and critter makeup. Best to do reps on a critter you can barely learn from. Some critters are resistant; stone mastiffs can be subdued but have some sort of padding that makes them very difficult. And many older critters are totally immune, so get the ranks now while you still can.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
RATHBONER
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks
03/30/2015 05:35 AM CDT
The main thing you need for subdue is stamina. More physical training if you want to add training.
There's a bonus if the critter is already stunned. I'd leg a mino to get its head in range, remove an arm so it couldn't fight back, and every time the stun wore off, jab it in the eye to get the stun back. Minos remain reppable for rather more levels than you'd think, warrior training is based around the range you can learn from, but rogue is fractional and at high level it goes well below what you can learn from. By far the best critters for repping at high level tend to be temporary storyline ones. I did most of my critter reps off the Talador siege forces and Idolone krolvin, so if that sort of opportunity presents itself, make the most of it.
There's a bonus if the critter is already stunned. I'd leg a mino to get its head in range, remove an arm so it couldn't fight back, and every time the stun wore off, jab it in the eye to get the stun back. Minos remain reppable for rather more levels than you'd think, warrior training is based around the range you can learn from, but rogue is fractional and at high level it goes well below what you can learn from. By far the best critters for repping at high level tend to be temporary storyline ones. I did most of my critter reps off the Talador siege forces and Idolone krolvin, so if that sort of opportunity presents itself, make the most of it.
THROGG
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks
03/30/2015 08:44 PM CDT
>> rogue is fractional and at high level it goes well below what you can learn from<<
Really? I could swear I stopped getting reps from Kiramon defenders when I hit 49 trains. What levels are you seeing as workable?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Really? I could swear I stopped getting reps from Kiramon defenders when I hit 49 trains. What levels are you seeing as workable?
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
WINSTEADJ2
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks
03/30/2015 08:47 PM CDT
Thank you both for the input. I am getting reps from defenders pretty frequently, and they don't hit to hard. Many thanks
THROGG
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks
03/31/2015 12:30 AM CDT
I need suggestions where to find something I can subdue. I'm 66 trains; nothing in stone valley or darkstone near my level can be subdued, except for stone mastiffs. And these are ridiculously resistant to it. This log is pretty typical. I'm 3 trains over them, chopped it's leg off so it couldn't run away, pulled out a blackjack (+20 on die roll) and the penalties are still -35! No, not encumbered, not wounded ... and that's a low penalty. The usual penalty for trying to subdue these guys is -42! With that big a penalty, I'd need a roll of 85+ to succeed even once. Also note that mastiffs are very perceptive and quite difficult to hide on, despite that fact that I am 2.5x in S&H. Since subdue has to be done from hiding, this just makes it even more difficult. After multiple attempts, I have yet to get even a single rep.
>>R>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 293 = 1.433 * MM: 115 + d100: 69 = 233
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
Awesome crossover punch shatters femur into a hundred pieces, shredding upper left leg!
The stone mastiff yelps loudly as she collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors her mangled left hind leg.
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
H>
A stone mastiff shakes her head violently as she regains her bearings!
H>get black
You remove a blackjack from in your deep black silk pack.
H>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>subd mast
[Roll result: 37 (open d100: 14) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is annoyed, but otherwise unaffected.
Roundtime: 5 sec.<<
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me!
>>R>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 293 = 1.433 * MM: 115 + d100: 69 = 233
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
Awesome crossover punch shatters femur into a hundred pieces, shredding upper left leg!
The stone mastiff yelps loudly as she collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors her mangled left hind leg.
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
H>
A stone mastiff shakes her head violently as she regains her bearings!
H>get black
You remove a blackjack from in your deep black silk pack.
H>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>subd mast
[Roll result: 37 (open d100: 14) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is annoyed, but otherwise unaffected.
Roundtime: 5 sec.<<
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me!
THROGG
Re: Subdue and Blackjacks ...success! Well, sort of ...
03/31/2015 12:46 AM CDT
I decided to start out with blackjack already in hand. Despite being a brawling weapon these are actually not UAC compatible, so my MM drops a lot. But by eliminating the small delay in drawing the weapon, I was able to do subdue attempts before they shook off the stun completely (which they do within seconds). Also, if you hide while they are stunned, you get a lot better success rate. It's still a rather lengthy and tedious process, but I guess not totally impossible.
>>H>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have good positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 341 = 1.231 * MM: 95 + d100: 20 = 137
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The stone mastiff is knocked to the ground!
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 310 = 1.354 * MM: 101 + d100: 31 = 167
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Larynx crushed! Looks like the stone mastiff won't be getting the last laugh now!
The stone mastiff is stunned!
The stone mastiff seems at a loss for words!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
HR>subd mast
[Roll result: 82 (open d100: 64) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is annoyed, but otherwise unaffected.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff growls as he scrambles to his feet!
>hide
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>subd mast
[Roll result: 124 (open d100: 106) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is dazed and is driven to its knees!
The scintillating white light surrounding the blackjack fades some.
[You have 6 repetition(s) remaining.]
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff growls as he scrambles to his feet!
>hide
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff claws at you!
AS: +335 vs DS: +449 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +30 = -61
A clean miss.
>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 310 = 1.354 * MM: 94 + d100: 81 = 208
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Rotating backhand cleanly snaps tibia!
The stone mastiff yelps loudly as he collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors his mangled left hind leg.
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
H>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>subd mas
[Roll result: 122 (open d100: 104) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is dazed!
As you hit, your blackjack sucks away the air!
... 25 points of damage!
Chest swells, breaking ribs!
The scintillating white light surrounding the blackjack fades some.
[You have 5 repetition(s) remaining.]
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!<<
"The enemy are so many, and our country so small ...
where shall we find the space to bury all of them?"
>>H>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have good positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 341 = 1.231 * MM: 95 + d100: 20 = 137
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The stone mastiff is knocked to the ground!
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 310 = 1.354 * MM: 101 + d100: 31 = 167
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Larynx crushed! Looks like the stone mastiff won't be getting the last laugh now!
The stone mastiff is stunned!
The stone mastiff seems at a loss for words!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
HR>subd mast
[Roll result: 82 (open d100: 64) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is annoyed, but otherwise unaffected.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff growls as he scrambles to his feet!
>hide
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>subd mast
[Roll result: 124 (open d100: 106) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is dazed and is driven to its knees!
The scintillating white light surrounding the blackjack fades some.
[You have 6 repetition(s) remaining.]
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff growls as he scrambles to his feet!
>hide
A stone mastiff notices your attempt to hide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A stone mastiff claws at you!
AS: +335 vs DS: +449 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +30 = -61
A clean miss.
>stance offen
> punch left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You make a precise attempt to punch a stone mastiff!
Your attack is hindered by holding a blackjack!
You have excellent positioning against a stone mastiff.
UAF: 420 vs UDF: 310 = 1.354 * MM: 94 + d100: 81 = 208
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Rotating backhand cleanly snaps tibia!
The stone mastiff yelps loudly as he collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors his mangled left hind leg.
The stone mastiff is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>stance defen
> hide
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!
H>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>subd mas
[Roll result: 122 (open d100: 104) Penalties: 35]
You spring from hiding and deliver a blow to a stone mastiff's head!
The stone mastiff is dazed!
As you hit, your blackjack sucks away the air!
... 25 points of damage!
Chest swells, breaking ribs!
The scintillating white light surrounding the blackjack fades some.
[You have 5 repetition(s) remaining.]
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A fierce growl rumbles from the chest of a stone mastiff as he shakes his head to regain his bearings!<<
"The enemy are so many, and our country so small ...
where shall we find the space to bury all of them?"
