so, I've been thinking really really really hard about the best "all around" armor for a rogue now that I am reaching ever closer to cap (level 88 now! woot!)

my theory is this...

torso chain (requires 40 ranks to train off maneuver penalty)

with a total of 90 ranks in Armor Use this reduces the Armor Penalty to that of a leather breastplate instead of chain mail (50 extra ranks).

here is where I'm not 100% sure and need some help...

with a total of 90 ranks in Armor Use this allows me to learn Rank 3 in Armored Evasion.

does Armored Evasion calculate as if I was now wearing AG3 since I will have those extra 50 ranks in armor?

If it reduces to AG3 then I will net a final Armor Penalty of -1 while in torso chain mail (-13 down to -7 from the 50 extra armor ranks, -6 from rank 3 in Armored Evasion)... if this IS the case then I find this to be the most efficient cost for Armor Use.

If it DOESN'T reduce the calculation from AG4 to AG3 I may be better off sticking to brigandine armor. Natural -12, reduced to -6 with extra Armor Use training, then an additional -6 in Armored Evasion to net a 0 Armor Penalty)

-James-
player of Fremie

Mirayam says, "You are not a rogue, sir."

Mirayam exclaims, "You are noble!"

I say robes.

Step One: You're going to need a lot of TPs. Get way post cap.

Step Two: You're going to need to be fast, just in case you are no good at the game and have no sense of tactics. 3x dodge and grab evasion mastery to maximize DS and evasion % for those pesky moments you actually get swung at. Even in offensive, the evasion mastery bonus is substantial in robes.

Step Three: You need to be a ghost. 3x hide, shadow mastery, and armored stealth (2x armor and wear robes? Yes!). Who needs DS, redux, or TD when nothing can see you or pull you out of hiding? The armored stealth bonus in robes pretty much makes it so the only thing you have to worry about is fumbles against even the most perceptive of creatures.

Step Four: Exploit the hiding mechanic to the fullest. You'll need a lot of stamina. 2x physical fitness. Grab divert and vanish. If you miss an ambush, instantly vanish. If you're in a swarm, vanish after every ambush and pick them off one at a time. If you don't like something in the room, divert it away. Hide forever.

Step Five: As always, cast e-wave all day long. Soft RT crowd control, instantly hide after casting. 0% cast hindrance in robes. Never miss!

Step Six: Win GS!

Jelly, plate rogues?

.jaired really thinks the best armor depends on the way the rogue is played
W.W.O.P.D.

Yea I have worked extensively with some rogues who went the robe-wave rogue path (Vyst and Futtilo mostly)

I die WAY less then they did in the bowels.

I think I might stick with brig, and go for 90 ranks in armor use, which gives me the 3rd rank in Armored Evasion and the inherent AG reduction from over-training armor. 0% armor penalty in brig sounds very tempting.

-James-
player of Fremie

Mirayam says, "You are not a rogue, sir."

Mirayam exclaims, "You are noble!"

my goal is to eliminate armor penalty vs maneuvers like a crawler burrow, standing, climbing, swimming, etc.

I think the most efficient use of points to do this is with 90 ranks in Armor Use, wearing brigandine armor and using Armored Evasion with 3 ranks (ZERO armor penalty).

add padding to the brig, stacked with some redux, and I think I'm good.

-James-
player of Fremie

Mirayam says, "You are not a rogue, sir."

Mirayam exclaims, "You are noble!"

I think given proper training a rogue could choose between wearing plate class armor and robe class armor, depending on what he will be going against. Best of both worlds.

so that really boils it down then...

Robes with 5 ranks in Armored Stealth (200 ranks in Armor Use)
PRO = best stealth build in the game, easy to cast spells (e-wave), no armor action penalty
CON = a lot of armor training just to use robes, terrible CvA and DF if caught in the open, requires a lot of stamina to use Vanish frequently.
Notes = using a shield would be counter productive to this build as it reduces the chances of outright evasion if caught in the open, using a twohander or two-weapon combat is suggested. Definitely a post-cap build, as having the 200 ranks in Armor Use would be recommended to best utilize Armored Stealth

Plate - metal breastplate (90-190 ranks in Armor Use)
PRO = best resistance to warding and damage
CON = no effective use for Armor Specialization Points, worst armor action penalty
Notes = good for most high level rogues for the added defense to warding spells which is definitely one of our weaker traits, the trade off is the chance of being hit with a fatal maneuver because of the armor action penalty. Training in those extra 50 ranks of Armor Use seems almost mandatory to negate some of the armor action penalty, I would even suggest 190 ranks to get it down to the same penalty as a leather breastplate)

Brig with 3 ranks in Armored Evasion (90 ranks in Armor Use)
PRO = zero armor action penalty, still viable with e-wave for hunting, very efficient use of training points.
CON = doesn't assist as much as plate against warding spells.
Notes = It doesn't seem to be as common of a path as others, but I think this is the way I'm going to train.

-James-
player of Fremie

Mirayam says, "You are not a rogue, sir."

Mirayam exclaims, "You are noble!"

The big difference between chain and plate is usually the DF rather than the crit divisor. In MBP, only the torso has the plate divisor, and for many weapons the DF difference between chain and plate is huge. Less so with critter natural attacks, but if you are going up against bandits and the like there are lots of weapons that are severely painful in chain and only scratch plate.

Its really the accessories that are giving me pause at the moment. I have enough armor training that I could stretch from my current chain to MBP any time I wanted to, but it would mean leaving a leaving a couple of nice enhancives in the locker and I don't want to think about how big the hindrance for field use of lore would become.

<<The big difference between chain and plate is usually the DF rather than the crit divisor. In MBP, only the torso has the plate divisor, and for many weapons the DF difference between chain and plate is huge. Less so with critter natural attacks, but if you are going up against bandits and the like there are lots of weapons that are severely painful in chain and only scratch plate.>>

<<Its really the accessories that are giving me pause at the moment. I have enough armor training that I could stretch from my current chain to MBP any time I wanted to, but it would mean leaving a leaving a couple of nice enhancives in the locker and I don't want to think about how big the hindrance for field use of lore would become. >>

I wish we could mix and match accessories for partial coverage of the torso -> torso-arms -> torso-arms-legs -> torso-arms-legs-head chain. It'd be nice to be able to wear MBP and a helmet for the penalties of Augmented MBP instead of the penalties of full plate.

Enhancive accessories are a very good reason to consider staying in the chain armor group, in my opinion.

-Keleborrn.

My rogue has worn torso chain since GS3 became GS4 (he was in MBP before that), and my extensive anecdotal evidence says it is not ideal. While I wouldn't say it happens a lot, I do still get one-shotted by THWs to the face more often than I feel is appropriate for a square. Sometimes a single mstrike is enough to bleed me out, too.

Keep in mind this is all self-spelled, though.

-Dan

I think vanish is what really tipped the scales in favor of robes. Before vanish I would have (and did) argued for plate over robes because there's just too much that can go wrong while you're in the open after botching an ambush. But with the advent of vanish your only risk is basically now not having fast enough reflexes assuming you have the stamina to vanish whenever necessary.

Still, I think it's worth noting that you can still 3x dodge in plate and you can still cast defensive spells in plate before going to hunt and you can still utilize ewave in plate with imbeddables (obviously it's more onerous). My TD is over 400 when I want it to be which with the -21 CvA makes me unhittable by pretty much anything but liches even with CS spells. With enough TPs and the right preparation you're pretty much invincible either way.

Webs are really a killer for us no matter the armor, because they negate so much of our DS.

Which is why I highly recommend thanking your local alchemists and stocking up on some fine opaline dust! It's the only thing that keeps me sane some times!

-Keleborrn.

I as a pure can get hit with one of those webs from a elder Seer if I am even slightly dispelled. A square would have to be absolutely glowing to have 0 chance of being warded.

thankfully nothing in the rift uses webs, but yeah I keep opaline dust ready with a macro

It's untrammel dust - you THROW DUST AT WEB to destroy the web (or unweb a webbed person). It requires MIU to activate, and has several charges when fresh.

Here's the notes on the 2 recipes on Virilneus' site:
http://www.virilneus.com/recipes/recipeview.php?rid=224
http://www.virilneus.com/recipes/recipeview.php?rid=283

-Keleborrn.