>>Wonderful...add more needless tasks to the game...now we have to peer into every room into which we move just to make sure we don't die. I'm loving this game more and more every day.

>>Seriously...this game ain't real life. It's supposed to be fun, not tedious.

Uh, you don't have to peer into the next room to enter it. It's just a tool to make your move easier.

Similarly, you don't have to shift to stance defensive when you're done swinging, but it's a tool to make your survival easier.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you have to; though why anyone complain about an extra boost of utility to offset new challenges is beyond me.

I personally don't find this addition tedious, but actually far more interesting than previous. I loved being able to peer in the Rift, and now I can do it everywhere. Very cool.

--Kinshack's player

I didn't mean to say that peer is necessary to hunt. In fact, I doubt that I'll use it much. If you hunt in an area that doesn't swarm, I doubt that you'd really need to use it. However, for those spell casters who can't train in MOC and still hunt in swarm areas, they do have an option so they don't walk into a room with four creatures that are going to work them over. But I believe the whole point is to make it so that spell casters who don't train in MOC take a buddy if they're going to hunt in swarm areas.

Also, about the earlier comment that somebody said about FIXSKILLS not making up for the fact that MOC was released. Originally, they didn't release FIXSKILLS with MOC (although I'm glad they did) so in the original plan, I don't think they saw it (FIXSKILLS) as necessary to use it. However, after the complaints on the boards that people wanted to change their training, they gave us one. But just because they gave it does not make it necessary to use. It is still quite possible to not need MOC (my rogue will not get it) and hunt intelligently (which I think was the point of MOC). This means areas that don't swarm, or if you're capable of handling swarms (with ewave or what not) to use the PEER command to check out if you're going to get wasted as soon as you walk in a room. Then you prep your spell early and cast it as soon as you enter. Ambushing rogues have, from what I've seen, avoided areas that swarm where they could have to take on more than one creatures at a time when hunting alone. Seems that the ones who do this are able to without much difficulty. It wouldn't think it too hard to avoid places that are going to send five creatures at you.

In my opinion, this change is a good thing becaues no longer can pures sit in guarded and hum happily themselves, knowning there is no chance to die. I think it makes hunting more interesting, and gives incentive for groups to form. However, you're entitled to your opinion, I just wanted to point out some facts that you had perhaps overlooked, and which could make you happier if you continue to play GS (I'm assuming these changes won't make you quit. I could be wrong.)

--No, but you have the option to peer into the room you're about to enter to see if its swarmed, and not go in there. Its not like you have no option but walk brazenly into a room with five creatures that are going to beat you into a pulp. --

So whose got that PEER SCRIPT set up for me so that I peer before everywhere I go? Just what I needed, another thing to type.

-Mike/Galesmight AIM: Galesmight
Long live the guilds.
-if life's not beautiful without the pain well i'd just rather never ever even see beauty again well as life gets longer awful feels softer and it feels pretty soft to me--
-Modest Mouse

IOI: 2

>Set up your keyboard macros so that CTRL-keypad- X is "\xpeer direction \r". That way, hitting the keypad numbers move you in a direction and using CTRL and the keypad numbers peers in that direction. Very simple to use, and similar to they way the Wizard had Familiar movement macros set up.

That's the way I used to use my eye when I needed to scout-hunt, it works dang well.

- Ildran

<<How exactly are they hindered in the first place?

Well...first off, pures are basically forced into wearing leather armor, whereas before it was at least feasible for a pure to wear heavier armors if he/she so chose. We were given a runestaff system that gives us siginifiactly less DS than sword/board, but an option we need if we want to be able to use out magical skills to the fullest. We basically die if we're hit with a maneuver, and if we're very lucky may escape.

<<Isn't that already in place with TD? I know my squares have horrible TD and can get hit by things that are almost 10 levels below me. Now, you could say this is my choice in stat placement, but is already in place because squares have no way to boost a TD other than just normal aging. Unless you're going to spend the huge number of points to train in spells. Actually, I've played lots of pures. And I do realize that pures have no good way to defend against all those physical thing. But have you played a square? You have to avoid hunting anything that casts a serious spell that uses TD because I have no defenses against it, unless I get spells from somebody else, and even these don't save me from like level creatures.

Squares can go get spelled to the brim and defend against spells quite easily. Not to mention combat mastery and societal powers. Pures really have no outside way to defend against maneuver attacks.

This system has no benefit to anyone but squares.

This new mechanic gives squares a great advantage to squares and in turn, doesn't expose them to any disadvantage. This system puts pures at a disadvantage and really gives them nothing positive out of it.

Player of Balthon

>> FoF is similar in nature to the CML in that it is giving pures a taste of what squares have been subjected to from the CS/TD system since the game's inception.

While Squares may be weak to warding attacks, Pures are weak to combat maneuvers. If anything, Squares were already on top because it's not that difficult to avoid creatures that cast warding spells. But finding creatures that don't use some type of combat maneuver is rare.

Force on Force just gave them further ground.

Lord Creukir
Arachne Adherent and Dhe'nar Confessor

Perhaps you should take a step back and notice two things.

-Pures are vulnerable to Cmans(pretty much never changes, except postcap/mutants, can't say I've ever seen one that was viable)
-Squares are vulnerable to TD spells(can change, but only at high levels)

FoF systems generally make no sense in the way they were implimented, it was too radical. 25% per extra creature is too much when it costs EVERYONE so much to train in MOC. And those people that are arguing this forces us to hunt in groups, I find that a terrible tragedy. There were much more effective ways that they moved from the game a long time ago that forced people to hunt in groups, such as placing most spells under the self-cast category.
This system was one that was not needed, as many have stated because its a game, and no matter how much there is a desire to code it realistically, it will never be reality. If that was the desire there are much better systems that could have been implimented to move towards a more "real" feel. For instance, when I am attacked and get scratched, how come that will never ever, not in a million years, heal on its own? That seems something that is so basic, not a far-fetched system such as this one. While this system hurts everyone, the way it was implimented gives the impression it was done to undermine pures everywhere. If I want a challenge I will hunt storm griffins, or something else, I should not be forced into having to deal with challenges that I never supported, and from what I can tell have made a terrible ruckous, and undermines the tenative balance between pures/squares we had seen before by the above two statements.

~Benyark~

I always thought that training in MOC for pures helped with ball spells. So its not like training in it is a waste or anything.
And the last post was kinda right on with the statement that pures can get MOC cheaper than squares get pure skills.

Also people forget to mention the other fact, its alot easier for a pure to walk out of a room if it turns nasty, with a 3 second rt, and if your a sorc, a 3 second cast time in which you can still move if you want.

Figure that since most squares or even semis have a 5-6 second hard RT. Either from a claid, or from ambushing.

I also have yet to run into to much for me to handle since the change. overhunting a few levels, i can get a few bruises and cuts, but the last time i died was in Darkstone, and in my defense the things we were hunting were about 30 trains over me.

>>if your a sorc, a 3 second cast time in which you can still move if you want.

Not if your using two of your main spells to their most effective use. In otherwords channeling. Spells are greatly reduced in efficency when used from guarded and not channeled. The spells that don't use channel can still be used from guarded, but those spells that cause a great amount of damage are not really there.

And torment, requires a lower stance so you don't kill your self.

Next i'm sure you'll start complaining about how sorcerers can stun things and not worry abuot them, while a square can't so easily...

>>And the last post was kinda right on with the statement that pures can get MOC cheaper than squares get pure skills.

Cost vs Benfits. Those ranks of MOC will eat into your training plan of lowering your other magical skills. The magical skills are cheap, and you can get a few for the price you spend on MOC.

Its price is still mean to discourage pures, it should be tweaked


~Jeff
Why do people look at the name ascendent, and say the first syllable, or part of it makes me look like something? As hardly means what the try to make it be, and only proves their level of maturity is low, and besides the first part is ascend

<<Spell Research for Warrior 0/120

Yeah i want a tweak as well, if pures are going to start getting lower costs on stuff, then i want lower costs on magic stuff.>>

Casting spells has always been the domain of spellcasters, funnily enough, and way back when, MOC (and CMAN) were the domain of swingers. Now, the latter can no longer be said to be true. Spellcasters need MOC to make full use of their spells, and there is now a Defensive requirement for MOC, whereas in the past it has always been an Offensive option that most Pures never needed (or used).

These changes bring the utility and necessity of MOC down from a Swinger's skill to a general skill, but the TP cost remains anchored in the old paradigm. If they update one, they should update the other.


As for spell costs, would you really want to give up a chunk of DFRedux for a few lousy spells?

>>CM for sorc 12/8
MOC for sorc 15/10
**
Spell Research for Warrior 0/120<<

Wow you've pointed out that they're all set to discourage those professions from taking those skills. The problem here is that warriors don't ever have any real reason to train in spells. They can get spells from other people (Barring the few areas where spell burst takes effect) to bolster their TD or use manuvers to stop creatures from casting. Further they have redux and heavy armor along with more DS granted from physical skills to make up for the lack of spell DS. On the other hand sorcerers have no way to defend better against FoF or manuvers other than these skills. The cost for MOC needs to come down.


Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon

A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.

Stop selling us realism when we're paying for fun!