Do companions count as a ranger-PC-side addition attack like a hunting partner?
They can generate a DS and they use manuevers to attack.
I asked earlier in the post but never heard the answer
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JADE123
GARYBME
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/02/2004 02:12 PM CST
>>Do companions count as a ranger-PC-side addition attack like a hunting partner?<<
Um, there's no addition for hunting partners (that is to say, it's not a ration of them to us). The only benefit from have multiple people is it gives the monsters more targets to swing at, thus reducing the number swings at you. The defense reduction is based on the number of critters that swing at you.
Gary
Um, there's no addition for hunting partners (that is to say, it's not a ration of them to us). The only benefit from have multiple people is it gives the monsters more targets to swing at, thus reducing the number swings at you. The defense reduction is based on the number of critters that swing at you.
Gary
MANNC1
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/02/2004 03:24 PM CST
>Um, there's no addition for hunting partners (that is to say, it's not a ration of them to us). The only benefit from have multiple people is it gives the monsters more targets to swing at, thus reducing the number swings at you. The defense reduction is based on the number of critters that swing at you.
You'd think that being in a group would give you a bonus to the defense, not just give the critters more people to swing at....
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
You'd think that being in a group would give you a bonus to the defense, not just give the critters more people to swing at....
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
TINKIN
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/02/2004 10:46 PM CST
<<The defense reduction is based on the number of critters that swing at you.>>
So, how does all this work with regards to spells like Song of Mirrors, which creates "the illusion of multiple images of the Bard in the room". Why would some of the missed attacks, or the ones that are successfully dodged at least, still count as a "multiple opponent"?
Or, better put perhaps, why does some nebulous troll swinging at an illusion of me halfway across the room lower my defense against the other trolls, who aren't?
So, how does all this work with regards to spells like Song of Mirrors, which creates "the illusion of multiple images of the Bard in the room". Why would some of the missed attacks, or the ones that are successfully dodged at least, still count as a "multiple opponent"?
Or, better put perhaps, why does some nebulous troll swinging at an illusion of me halfway across the room lower my defense against the other trolls, who aren't?
LORDLIMPER
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/02/2004 10:51 PM CST
<< Or, better put perhaps, why does some nebulous troll swinging at an illusion of me halfway across the room lower my defense against the other trolls, who aren't? >>
Each time one of the troll swarm members sees that troll swing through your illusion, they sure won't be swinging at that illusion anymore! They're gonna pick one of the other ones...hence your drop in DS since one of your illusion is now being ignored.
Ron
If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your face.
Each time one of the troll swarm members sees that troll swing through your illusion, they sure won't be swinging at that illusion anymore! They're gonna pick one of the other ones...hence your drop in DS since one of your illusion is now being ignored.
Ron
If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your face.
TINKIN
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 12:25 AM CST
<<Each time one of the troll swarm members sees that troll swing through your illusion, they sure won't be swinging at that illusion anymore! They're gonna pick one of the other ones...hence your drop in DS since one of your illusion is now being ignored.>>
But that illusion doesn't contribute to my defence anyway...
But that illusion doesn't contribute to my defence anyway...
MANNC1
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 08:55 AM CST
>So, how does all this work with regards to spells like Song of Mirrors, which creates "the illusion of multiple images of the Bard in the room". Why would some of the missed attacks, or the ones that are successfully dodged at least, still count as a "multiple opponent"?
The rangers have the same question about wall of thorns. An attack blocked by the thorns shouldn't count as an attack. Should work that way with your Song of Mirrors as well.
Hopefully it, along with some other good suggestions, will be considered with this new change to the combat system.
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
The rangers have the same question about wall of thorns. An attack blocked by the thorns shouldn't count as an attack. Should work that way with your Song of Mirrors as well.
Hopefully it, along with some other good suggestions, will be considered with this new change to the combat system.
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
KRAKII
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 09:09 AM CST
"The rangers have the same question about wall of thorns. An attack blocked by the thorns shouldn't count as an attack. Should work that way with your Song of Mirrors as well." -- Odysia, replying
.
Personally, I would far rather kiss off any potential change to Mirrors' effect--it already gives me Dodge ranks, leave it at that--and instead have Dancing Weapon count as an additional opponent for the critters to deal with.
.
But I may be alone in that.
.
Personally, I would far rather kiss off any potential change to Mirrors' effect--it already gives me Dodge ranks, leave it at that--and instead have Dancing Weapon count as an additional opponent for the critters to deal with.
.
But I may be alone in that.
GS4-WARDEN
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 09:20 AM CST
If a ranger could know prior to an attack taking place that his Wall of Thorns was going to intercept it, thus he could ignore it, I would be more inclined to agree with this line of thought. The Wall is trying to block every attack; the ranger doesn't know until after the fact which ones were actually deflected.
For Song of Mirrors, Blur, etc., the spells are already providing a defensive benefit, affecting all attackers, to simulate that incoming attacks weren't placed as well as they could have been. I don't expect to boost their benefits further.
Warden
For Song of Mirrors, Blur, etc., the spells are already providing a defensive benefit, affecting all attackers, to simulate that incoming attacks weren't placed as well as they could have been. I don't expect to boost their benefits further.
Warden
MANNC1
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 09:37 AM CST
Warden,
Any chance that one spell in each profession's spell circle can be tweaked to provide MOC ranks? Like Mobility for Rangers gives dodge ranks?
Especially if you plan to keep the really high requirements for MOC ranks to offset critter attacks. For pures its gotta be killing them to try and fit in that 15 ranks of MOC. I had a hard time coming up with TP's for 15 ranks and I'm capped.
Thanks for the response on Wall of Thorns. I didn't expect to get an answer I liked, but, at least you gave us one.
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
Any chance that one spell in each profession's spell circle can be tweaked to provide MOC ranks? Like Mobility for Rangers gives dodge ranks?
Especially if you plan to keep the really high requirements for MOC ranks to offset critter attacks. For pures its gotta be killing them to try and fit in that 15 ranks of MOC. I had a hard time coming up with TP's for 15 ranks and I'm capped.
Thanks for the response on Wall of Thorns. I didn't expect to get an answer I liked, but, at least you gave us one.
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
TINKIN
Re: uhm MoC changes?
12/03/2004 03:30 PM CST
<<For Song of Mirrors, Blur, etc., the spells are already providing a defensive benefit, affecting all attackers, to simulate that incoming attacks weren't placed as well as they could have been. I don't expect to boost their benefits further.>>
I don't dispute that, but if this is a quest for "realism", then the logic behind MoC shouldn't apply to these spells. If some of my multiple attackers are off swinging away at things that aren't me, why should it reduce my DS? It would be the same as if they took a swing-and-a-miss at my hunting partner(s).
The spells don't provide DS anyway, so its not like they're gradually dispelling my illusions by swinging through them, or working out which ones are the real me.
I'm not sure how these things are coded, but having these types of spell provide a passive MoC bonus would be handy to all concerned:
- it would provide a magical solution to a training problem for spellcasters, who surely would have devoted some effort over the years to countering the problem of multiple attackers.
- Mass Blurs would assist youngsters, who are now going to be nailed by kobold swarms and vicious packs of rodents.
- it gives real choices back to the players...they can train heavily in MoC (if you're not going to train heavily, no point in training at all) or take the risk that they can get Mass Blurs (or similar) and not bother training in MoC at all. As it stands now I have no real choice in the matter - as a 76th level wizard, to re-do my skills to get 15+ ranks of MoC will gut my abilities so much that the issue of being swung at twice by attackers within 10 seconds will be the least of my problems.
- its "realistic" (within the context of an online game involving imaginary places and magic anyway).
<< The Wall is trying to block every attack; the ranger doesn't know until after the fact which ones were actually deflected.>>
So this system is more about anticipating the attack and splitting your defence "just in case" than about the affect of the enemy successfully swinging and forcing you into a weaker position?
I don't dispute that, but if this is a quest for "realism", then the logic behind MoC shouldn't apply to these spells. If some of my multiple attackers are off swinging away at things that aren't me, why should it reduce my DS? It would be the same as if they took a swing-and-a-miss at my hunting partner(s).
The spells don't provide DS anyway, so its not like they're gradually dispelling my illusions by swinging through them, or working out which ones are the real me.
I'm not sure how these things are coded, but having these types of spell provide a passive MoC bonus would be handy to all concerned:
- it would provide a magical solution to a training problem for spellcasters, who surely would have devoted some effort over the years to countering the problem of multiple attackers.
- Mass Blurs would assist youngsters, who are now going to be nailed by kobold swarms and vicious packs of rodents.
- it gives real choices back to the players...they can train heavily in MoC (if you're not going to train heavily, no point in training at all) or take the risk that they can get Mass Blurs (or similar) and not bother training in MoC at all. As it stands now I have no real choice in the matter - as a 76th level wizard, to re-do my skills to get 15+ ranks of MoC will gut my abilities so much that the issue of being swung at twice by attackers within 10 seconds will be the least of my problems.
- its "realistic" (within the context of an online game involving imaginary places and magic anyway).
<< The Wall is trying to block every attack; the ranger doesn't know until after the fact which ones were actually deflected.>>
So this system is more about anticipating the attack and splitting your defence "just in case" than about the affect of the enemy successfully swinging and forcing you into a weaker position?
