I know that large, "unwieldy" weapons are difficult to aim. This worst of them allegedly being lances and awl-pikes. I had assumed this meant the base RT of a weapon was a good indicator of how difficult it would be to aim.

Does anyone know otherwise? Perhaps ALL polearms are penalized?

I picked up a javelin (4 base rt) and started stabbing stuff, and couldn't aim it for the life of me. Even got a few parries. This was a 24 paladin vs. 20 warcats. I don't recall warcats being small, or difficult to aim at. Maybe that was it, though.

I understand there are other factors, training, target critter, injuries, aim location, whatever. Just trusting that I've covered those to the degree that I succeed with comparable weapons, can anyone tell me if they know or have heard of testing on javelins' melee aiming ability? Are all polearms inherently difficult to aim, even pilums?


-Tibby, who wants to stab things in the eyes

Thanks for the response, Zyl.

My only extensive experience with open aiming was also a ranger, but that was in GS3. She singled CM and ambush and was consistently legging steel golems with one of those woodsman's hatchets at 19 back then.

Of course, hatchets are slower (5 base RT) than javelins (4 base RT), but steel golems are huge, so probably easy to aim at.

My paladin, being 1x in paladin base spells, and constantly using 1611, is essentially a full 1.5x in CM, but 0 ranks in ambush. I'm just really hoping my number of ranks outweigh my target's level, so that eventually (sooner rather than later?) I can aim reliably.


-Tibby, still wanting to stab stuff in the eye

Keep in mind that a javelin isn't a pole arm, but is in fact a thrown weapon.

You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!


Salim

>>Force without justice is violence,
>>Justice without force is weakness.

>You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!

<twitch> Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU...for bringing that commercial top-of-mind for probably the next week and a half... <sigh> [/sarcasm]

>Javelins are wierd... I remember I found a rhimar javelin at the end of GS3 when the treasure hopper was cranked up - it inspects as a thrown weapon. But I also have come across javelins inspected as polearms.. they really are odd.

Like naginatas. Some used to inspect as actual naginatas, others as halberds. They were all fixed to read as naginatas.

~Imaera's Favorite...who now has peanut butter in his chocolate
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing.

True. What I meant was that the fix made all new-style ones to read as naginatas. Semantics :P

~Imaera's Favorite
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing.

I have yet to see a javelin in GS4 that reads as a polearm. The ones I've seen (and have) all inspect as thrown weapons. They still use polearm skill.

-Tibby, not trained in thrown weapons

Well I'll be...

>inspect jav
You carefully inspect your mithglin javelin.

After a careful inspection you determine that a well-balanced mithglin javelin requires skill in thrown weapons to use effectively.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of mithglin.

>throw jav at vel
You can't throw that here.
>throw jav
You can't throw that here.
>
A velnalin snorts as she slowly backs away.

>att vel
You thrust with a well-balanced mithglin javelin at a velnalin!
AS: +189 vs DS: +32 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +14 = +199
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Elbow punctured, oh what pain!
The velnalin collapses to the ground, emits a final sigh, and dies.


~Imaera's Favorite
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing (even with throw weapons...)

It's "hurl <target>", in the same manner that you would "attack <target>".

So in this case, "hurl velnalin".

---

Voraviel	"They [demons] are only vulnerable to 7x weapons, and--"
Krakii	"8x."
Voraviel	"Isn't it 7x?"
Krakii	"Pretty sure it's 8x."
Voraviel	"Hell, I'm the designer and I'll go with what you said."

I'm pretty sure a DF of 20 would mean the critter would explode into a red mist just from looking at your weapon. :)

~Flamma

When they converted jav's to thrown base, I think they stopped using pole skill to determine parry DS. It is only used for AS.


Menos
AIM: GS4Menos

>Rightly to be great
>Is not to stir without great argument,
>But greatly to find quarrel in a straw
>When honour's at the stake.

>When they converted jav's to thrown base, I think they stopped using pole skill to determine parry DS. It is only used for AS.

Wow. That completely sucks. I will test this, and if it is so, there goes the whole melee javelin character concept. Tell me pilums aren't the same!


-Tibby, sad

Yeah, but the base RT of javelins and pilums appeal to more unique character concepts. Additionally, the ability to reliably aim a weapon that only punctures can be neat for those eye crits.

Doesn't matter now, I'm migrating to blunt weapons. I was willing to spend the extra TPs on polearms even if not taking advantage of the heavy hitters, for the uniqueness factor and conceptual appeal, but I didn't wanna shoot myself in the foot that badly.

Thanks, all, for the discussion.


-Tibby

Don't get me wrong, I love polearms. But my paladin is just not the character to do it with. Besides, I've played many, many pole characters in the past. Even before it became as viable as it is now, I just liked the concept, and disliked the idea of being "another claidh swinger". So they just don't excite me like they used to. I thought it would be neat to go for 1handed poles in conjunction with focused mstrike and aiming, but a paladin has a hard time pulling off the training for all that. 1x MOC: 5/2, 1x Ambush: 4/5, 1x CM: 5/4 or 5/2. Poles are 15/6 to double, as opposed to 12/6 for 2handers and 9/3 for OHB or OHE, or 12/3 for brawling. As a semi, paladins have other stuff to spend on. Like most paladins, I ignored the .75x recommendation and went for 1x, so thats 0/27 per level, with 0/5 harness power and I really want some lores for 0/7. And for physical points, I could put those extra physical into tripling armor use, since I'm getting hit in warcamps with or without a shield, and AU will give me more immediate returns than the redux from physical training (which I'd like to triple later for stamina/redux).

Long story, but basically polearms are costly enough, without adding shield use to the equation. I'll save that training path for when I reactivate my old warrior and fixskills him. He can afford it, and besides, he's an elf so he'll be fun with any polearm.

Tibby, who also feels sad leaving poles behind