The membrane barriers separating the north and south sides of the scatter currently break up groups upon entry. It's time-consuming and inconvenient to keep re-grouping in an area that's already small. Could this please be changed?
CLAUDE209
RATHBONER
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 06:07 AM CDT
Do they break groups if the leader is last through?
Everyone has to go through individually if there is a skill check that is to be applied. However, normally you only actually leave the group if the leader goes through before you do.
Requiring a confirmation for a group leader ought to happen. The leader shouldn't have to know in advance that due to the weird mechanics at this particular portal they have to go last.
>go portal
WARNING. You are about to leave XXX behind. XXX must go portal before you in order to remain in your group. Go portal again to leave XXX behind.
Another possibility would be to outright refuse to allow the leader through while any followers remain and send the message to the followers.
>Go portal
Realising that you are about to leave XXX behind, you stop and encourage him to go portal.
Follower(s) see
YYY encourages you to undertake the difficulties of go portal. Better hurry up or you might get left behind!
Others see
YYY approaches the portal and urges her follower(s) on.
Fun possibilities for demeanor based messaging too.
YYY scolds you for shirking the challenge of go portal
YYY orders her followers to go portal
YYY forces her followers towards the portal at the point of her golvern lance.
Everyone has to go through individually if there is a skill check that is to be applied. However, normally you only actually leave the group if the leader goes through before you do.
Requiring a confirmation for a group leader ought to happen. The leader shouldn't have to know in advance that due to the weird mechanics at this particular portal they have to go last.
>go portal
WARNING. You are about to leave XXX behind. XXX must go portal before you in order to remain in your group. Go portal again to leave XXX behind.
Another possibility would be to outright refuse to allow the leader through while any followers remain and send the message to the followers.
>Go portal
Realising that you are about to leave XXX behind, you stop and encourage him to go portal.
Follower(s) see
YYY encourages you to undertake the difficulties of go portal. Better hurry up or you might get left behind!
Others see
YYY approaches the portal and urges her follower(s) on.
Fun possibilities for demeanor based messaging too.
YYY scolds you for shirking the challenge of go portal
YYY orders her followers to go portal
YYY forces her followers towards the portal at the point of her golvern lance.
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 08:56 AM CDT
Here's a crazy idea. What if groups just persisted until one party or the other decided to disengage? Obviously, if you become separated you won't gain the benefits of group spells, etc., but you shouldn't lose them either. When you pass barriers, climbing checks, etc. or even teleport, you remain grouped until the group is disbanded, you are removed from the group, or you choose to leave the group yourself. If the group leader enters the room you're in, you are seamlessly joined to the group as if you had never left. And the same for if you hide/unhide or reenter a room after leaving the room on your own. You stay joined until you or the group decides otherwise.
I'm sure there's some reason this can't be done or it would have been done already. Group mechanics in this game are just awful and allowing players to simply decide whether or not they want to be in a group in any situation is just a no-brainer as a solution, isn't it?
~Taverkin
I'm sure there's some reason this can't be done or it would have been done already. Group mechanics in this game are just awful and allowing players to simply decide whether or not they want to be in a group in any situation is just a no-brainer as a solution, isn't it?
~Taverkin
DOUG
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 09:00 AM CDT
I'm pretty sure you remain grouped - unless you have to move a room away. Don't you?
And why would you have to move a room away? Unless you're a halfling, standing your ground could be fatal.
Leader goes in, lich comes in, leader moves, second person comes in.
Whups!
By the way, if this is accurately portrayed (haven't tested it, just haven't noticed it before), I say it should stay. Nothing like the excitement of the chase.
OTF is lovely, this time of year, I hear they have group friendly rooms there.
Doug
And why would you have to move a room away? Unless you're a halfling, standing your ground could be fatal.
Leader goes in, lich comes in, leader moves, second person comes in.
Whups!
By the way, if this is accurately portrayed (haven't tested it, just haven't noticed it before), I say it should stay. Nothing like the excitement of the chase.
OTF is lovely, this time of year, I hear they have group friendly rooms there.
Doug
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 09:21 AM CDT
I'm just saying if I want to leave a group I will indicate that intention to the game by using the verb specifically designed for that purpose. I don't see the point in having it set up so that some actions break groups while others do not. Why not just have only one action that breaks group - leaving the group! Simple. No confusion. No annoyances. You just stay grouped until you type leave group, someone else removes you, the group disbands, or you join another group. Make appropriate adjustments to group effects to prevent abuse. Done deal. I mean, assuming it's possible to fix something like this - I know how funny these ancient systems are reported to be. Nothing is as easy as it seems, right?
~Taverkin
~Taverkin
GRYPES
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 12:25 PM CDT
Everyone has to go through individually if there is a skill check that is to be applied. However, normally you only actually leave the group if the leader goes through before you do.
I'm not sure there is a skill check. If there is a skill check, I don't see why would need to exist. The creatures in the scatter (and rift as a whole really) is the only skill check it needs.
Dgry
I'm not sure there is a skill check. If there is a skill check, I don't see why would need to exist. The creatures in the scatter (and rift as a whole really) is the only skill check it needs.
Dgry
GRYPES
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 12:26 PM CDT
The membrane barriers separating the north and south sides of the scatter currently break up groups upon entry. It's time-consuming and inconvenient to keep re-grouping in an area that's already small. Could this please be changed?
I support this suggestion. Down with group breakers.
Dgry
GRYPES
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 12:30 PM CDT
I'm sure there's some reason this can't be done or it would have been done already.
~Taverkin
I wouldn't be so sure, everytime I think they this game thrives on interaction they add something that hinders that process.
I mean, the scatter was the last hunting ground to be added to the game...
Dgry
~Taverkin
I wouldn't be so sure, everytime I think they this game thrives on interaction they add something that hinders that process.
I mean, the scatter was the last hunting ground to be added to the game...
Dgry
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 01:08 PM CDT
There's no skill check, at least not as far as I can tell. What would it be checking? Ability to pass through membranes? I think you auto-regroup, but have to go through separately. What's the point?
I have this feeling that perhaps when first developed, the name "The Scatter" came from an idea that you would scatter when you passed through the fissure, and that theme carried through a little bit at the barriers. Fortunately you only occasionally "scatter" when you drag a corpse out of The Scatter now. When it first opened, this happened all the time, and reconnecting with the corpse you were rescuing was a major pain if they weren't locatable (or you had no skill for locating). Not generally a problem for some, but a huge problem for others, since searching all 5 planes PLUS the scatter itself just to find a corpse, while challenging, isn't much fun. That's my guess, but it's really little more than that. I would prefer that groups stuck together when crossing the barrier.
Another thought though, would be that it is a place of peril, so perhaps there is a desire that each person make the decision to go across the barrier on their own.
Kerl
I have this feeling that perhaps when first developed, the name "The Scatter" came from an idea that you would scatter when you passed through the fissure, and that theme carried through a little bit at the barriers. Fortunately you only occasionally "scatter" when you drag a corpse out of The Scatter now. When it first opened, this happened all the time, and reconnecting with the corpse you were rescuing was a major pain if they weren't locatable (or you had no skill for locating). Not generally a problem for some, but a huge problem for others, since searching all 5 planes PLUS the scatter itself just to find a corpse, while challenging, isn't much fun. That's my guess, but it's really little more than that. I would prefer that groups stuck together when crossing the barrier.
Another thought though, would be that it is a place of peril, so perhaps there is a desire that each person make the decision to go across the barrier on their own.
Kerl
CLAUDE209
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/18/2013 02:50 PM CDT
<<Another thought though, would be that it is a place of peril, so perhaps there is a desire that each person make the decision to go across the barrier on their own.
I guess the way I see it, I can move easily north to south of the scatter if I am soloing without worrying about running into problems. Group-breaking elements like the barrier do add an element of danger, but only for groups. I guess I don't understand the need to have these types of group deterrents, when GS is supposedly all about encouraging interaction.
I guess the way I see it, I can move easily north to south of the scatter if I am soloing without worrying about running into problems. Group-breaking elements like the barrier do add an element of danger, but only for groups. I guess I don't understand the need to have these types of group deterrents, when GS is supposedly all about encouraging interaction.
GS4-FINROS
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/19/2013 09:42 PM CDT
>Here's a crazy idea. What if groups just persisted until one party or the other decided to disengage? ... I'm sure there's some reason this can't be done or it would have been done already.
Grouping is one of those rare systems that hasn't been moved out of the core game engine, and a thousand scripts are built to use the current implementation. The development team is just as unhappy with the current group implementation as players are, but a complete overhaul is... ugly... to contemplate. Possible, and on the wishlist for more than one of us, but unlikely anytime soon.
Grouping is one of those rare systems that hasn't been moved out of the core game engine, and a thousand scripts are built to use the current implementation. The development team is just as unhappy with the current group implementation as players are, but a complete overhaul is... ugly... to contemplate. Possible, and on the wishlist for more than one of us, but unlikely anytime soon.
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Request to make scatter barriers group-friendly
03/19/2013 10:23 PM CDT
It's a shame so much of this game is tied to archaic designs that are so difficult to change and really seem out of place after 20+ years of gaming. There are a lot of things that seem obvious once you've seen it done a better way, but probably wouldn't have been obvious when this game was first developed. Now it's a real headache to change them and we're stuck with it! Too bad!
~Taverkin
~Taverkin
