>As it is, the travel time, the puzzle, the pool, and the drop combine to contribute to a significant and measurable loss in experience gain for the time spent hunting the Rift.

I agree. I used to love the rift before the advent of the Adventurer's guild. Symbol of seeking certainly went a ways towards fixing that, but on my list trip I still made the mistake once of trying to sell gems for a task at the trading post and was disheartened to realize they didn't count.

Can we get an AG outpost at pinefar? Sure, for a capped voln sorcerer, the back and forth isn't terribly difficult, but for say a Sunfist rogue...it's a lot of screen scroll and a bit of time, at the least...or a long annoying walk for those who still don't utilize scripts. Worse still if you have a skinning task and don't always get adequate quality skins.

And while I appreciate the updates to the pool no longer stripping all of your spells, regardless of whether you know them or not, it might be worth a bit of discussion as to whether the Rift should be changed to have spellburst similar to OTF and Nelemar. Especially to Blackbold's point (ok, I'm assuming a bit of what was unsaid here)...since bandit tasks can get real dicey...especially for pures...without outside spells.

I know the Scatter was designed as a group hunting area conceptually, but the active population has dwindled, or at least changed dramatically, making this less functional for daily hunting...and if you are going to hunt the rift at cap...you want to be able to do so daily, group or no group. For some of the far past cap semis and squares that is currently possible, for Pures, it can lead to fairlly regular deaths without far better than 4x gear.

Maybe it doesn't need to change, but some discussion on the topic certainly seems warranted.

--Jurp

I'm not suggesting that the Rift requires updating to a spellburst model. It seems fine to me the way it is as far as hunting as a wizard goes. I can't speak for other pures, however. I meant what I said. It's somewhat annoying that I have to lose all of the outside spells that I use when taking a bandit task just because my next task sends me into the Rift. Spellburst would solve that problem, but the Rift and its inhabitants were designed for players with no outside spells. If it were possible to keep the spells, but temporarily nullify their effects while inside the Rift, it would be a nice touch that wouldn't change the difficulty of the Rift one bit.

I don't like the idea of adding an AG to Pinefar. It's too isolated and would probably pull the higher level crowd away from an already small population in IMT. I'd like to merge Pinefar and Icemule as a "realm" or whatever we're calling it. It would be VERY nice if we were able to teleport from Aenatumgana to Icemule and Volners would still have the edge in that they could avoid the puzzle and the swim. If on top of that we could keep our outside spells (but not their effects!), the Rift would be perfect in all its weird and annoying environmental effects, no outside spells, and dangerous enemies!

I lose my arcane spells when I swim through the pool, Doug. Lucky for me I'm a wizard and can charge statues and coins. The rest of the non-Voln crowd probably go through statues like crazy!

~Taverkin

Wow. I must have mis-remembered. Thanks for pointing it out, Tav. I want to check a couple things, though -- I must really not be paying much attention.

I do like the idea of realm merge for IMT / Pinefar. That one is a great concept! Extending the reach is important in dwindling populations.

Doug

That's why I say it's sort of stacking the deck at this point. The creatures you fight are no less difficult and in some cases far more difficult than other capped areas. Then you heap on all of the eccentricities of the Rift, which many of us appreciate but many do not. Adding the isolation, the climbs, the puzzle with mana/stamina cost, the swim with spell-stripping, AND the spirit drain and time lost to the drop (admittedly time lost to the drop itself is usually minimal, but occasionally obnoxious!). It's a bit much.

I'd like to see the drop revised. Let us walk into the sphere, take a step in one direction, and seconds later drop onto the plane. No more taking 30-something steps, spending several seconds to several minutes in limbo, then waiting around for spirit recovery before hunting. It strikes me as an unnecessary waste of player's time. Keep the challenging environmental effects, unique spell restrictions, and dangerous creatures. That's all good!

And also like I said before, I'd like to at least see arcane spells removed from the list of spells the pool strips. But better than that would be to somehow nullify the effect of outside spells inside the Rift without actually removing them. Spellburst would work, too, but that would probably require a lot of work in tweaking the Rift to compensate for outside spells.

You may be starting to notice a theme at this point. I would like to retain the challenge of this game, but remove or change aspects of it which simply waste time or annoy players while adding nothing of value. I can see why we'd want to keep the weird environmental effects of the Rift as well as the constantly shifting exits. They increase the challenge and contribute to the unique feel of the Rift. The spirit drain falls into the latter category perhaps, but does nothing to increase the challenge. So the question is: Is that worth forcing players to stand around for a minute or two before every hunt? I don't think it is.

~Taverkin

I honestly agree. the sphere and spirit drain are nothing but time wastes that add nothing. The other things about the rift, the moving voids, doors, mirrors, getting rifted, all of that im fine with and honestly I like it. it adds a challenge to the hunting area. Im with Tav, get rid of the things that just waste time and add nothing.

Player of Malisai

>>and that's a primary consideration for most of us in choosing where we hunt and whether or not we enjoy a hunting area

Yes. This. And, frankly, I like this. I don't need the hordes descending.

However, there are four things that can facilitate avoiding a 'significant' (read here, just accepting it as it is) waste of time in the drop. I'm not sure that they're game secrets, so I'm going to lay them out.

First, Voln. Dreaming is very powerful. It is significantly huge for any elven race. It may seem odd, but it isn't overly hard to dream after the drop, or just beyond the drop. Even easier if one is a spirit caster, and nearly iron-clad if one is a cleric.

Second, mana bread. Mana bread is a huge time saver at the drop point. Other spells also apply, since this is before the drop! Again it is significantly huge for any elven race, but this scales and is available to all parties, all professions, and all races. A pity dreaming doesn't work here, though.

Third, enhancives. Spirit recovery enhancives fit the same category as the previous two. Now, imagine the power of a mana bread fed, spirit recovery enhanced dreamer -- and voila. Two minutes. Three if you're an elf. Four if you get interrupted in your dreaming. The delta in experience drops to 200 - 500, and the reward presently is in other than experience. I call fair trade!

Finally, there is (are) gem(s) that will actually absorb the spirit drain attempt completely. The only problem with these gems is that they degrade but cannot be 'resung' to an improved value. In this case, it isn't a question of recovering from, it's a tool to totally avoid the issue to begin with. The elf uses this technique specifically for rescues, where a full spirit full-on offensive may be necessary. Which doesn't happen anywhere but the southron wastes of the Scatter. And even then, it's a 50/50 proposition.

As an 'oh-by-the-way' aside, there is another way to limit the drain during the run from sphere to drop. I don't rely on it, but try entering the sphere with less than a clear mind sometime. The results usually are surprising. Again, not always, not 100%. Not as reliable as the above, but definitely worthy of test / consideration. And every spirit point drain saved actually smooths the course of the prior four points.

We can devolve into the discussion of 'cost'. But I'll counter with yes, there's a cost. A cost easily borne by every capped and most near capped characters that I've interacted with -- although not all, truthfully. But most importantly. . . the cost allows it to happen.

And it separates the exclusive from the general. Sorry, but in the end analysis, I want to see more selective (exclusive) hunting grounds. We frequently ask for exactly this -- greater treasure, fewer hunters (fewer scripters), more reward for the risk, etc. And these types of mechanics can help support that. The Rift actually does this moderately well. But. . . is it too much?

Now I've laid out why I think a tweak rather than an abolished mechanic is a better answer for me. But I get that's only my opinion, as well.

Doug

the gems are not common enough, and its rather expensive to keep yourself in that gem so that you can use it every hunt. I dont think voln is a good answer only because not everyone gets it. There are ways around it, but taking a look at what the sphere and drain does the question shouldnt be is it possible to avoid it, but does this mechanic add anything of value. And honestly, it doesnt. The rift has enough random stuff in it to give people something to think about before deciding to hunt there.

Player of Malisai

>I'm not suggesting that the Rift requires updating to a spellburst model. It seems fine to me the way it is as far as hunting as a wizard goes. I can't speak for other pures, however. I meant what I said. It's somewhat annoying that I have to lose all of the outside spells that I use when taking a bandit task just because my next task sends me into the Rift. Spellburst would solve that problem, but the Rift and its inhabitants were designed for players with no outside spells. If it were possible to keep the spells, but temporarily nullify their effects while inside the Rift, it would be a nice touch that wouldn't change the difficulty of the Rift one bit.

Valid point, and I'm ok with it. Your reccomendation would certainly be a huge improvement.

And yes, I know most of the rift is designed with only your own spells in mind, so spellburst model wouldn't really be right. You can change 'most' to 'all' if you include 'and/or groups' to the initial statement.

I can do pretty well in the Scatter with my normal gear, but from recent experience the base 4x gear can get pretty hairy there, even with a small group. And with the rather siginificant pain, of getting a corpse out of 4,5, or the Scatter, death can get annoying quickly.

Granted, I'm not suggesting changing the extraction meathod...it's another aspect of the Rift that adds character. When it comes to the area itself, I have to admit that the rift is by far the most interesting/inventive area in the game.

--Jurp